PG: Deuce McBrunson School Curry's Kids

[gavran]

Weird swings from iHart (+26) to Prince (-14). I think Prince is playing himself out of a rotation once Mitchell is back. He couldn’t box out anybody last night.

Prince?

[3toheadmelo]

I don't really think anyone holds the ATL series against thibs...he has had some talented teams in the playoffs. Those CHI teams weren't buns. Our team last year wasn't buns.

But waiting until after game 1 in the playoffs to remove Elfrid Payton from the starting lineup was a really bad coaching decision in the sense we all so what happening months ago and because we were winning "enough" he kept playing him. We had time to adjust and get comfortable with a new lineup but he stubbornly stuck with the rotation even starting him to then never bring him back in because he didn't want to "mess with the bench". It was a silly decision and making that change in game 2 of the playoffs is too late.

payton played 8 mins in game 1

im not blaming game 1 loss on thibs starting payton for 8 minutes. I'm saying we had plenty of time to adjust so if Rose was going to put with the starters that should hav happened well before the playoffs so the bench also could have acclimated with the change. Making a change like that to your rotation in the playoffs is way too much. I know his minutes were going down but he was still avg about 20 mins per game up until a few games before the playoffs started. And then having that big change to completely remove him from the rotation just was a done way too late.

we all saw it coming he was an overrated defender that couldn't shoot and teams weren't even guarding him so we knew how ATL was going to adjust. We knew that was going to get exposed in the playoffs. He had more time to say give IQ more minutes as a rookie and prepare him for a larger role with Burks off the bench if he was going to start Rose.

in the month of may he was averaging 15 mins before the playoffs. did not play a single game of 20 mins or more in that month. thibs was clearly phasing him out of the rotation for the playoffs. rose was already finishing games and playing with the starters. payton at that point was just playing for the beginning of the game and back to the bench. i dont see how thibs not removing him completely from the rotation would've made a significant difference. this is just nitpicking hardcore for your anti thibs agenda

and like others have said, there isnt a series that thibs had more talent than the other team and still lost. so...

[DOT]

Its much easier to win in the post season when you've got prime Curry, Klay, Draymond, KD, Lebron, Wade, Jokic, Giannis, Tatum with stacked rosters surrounding them. Thibs got Nerlens Noel, Reggie Bullock and Randle as starters. Its not the same thing

I don't really think anyone holds the ATL series against thibs...he has had some talented teams in the playoffs. Those CHI teams weren't buns. Our team last year wasn't buns.

But waiting until after game 1 in the playoffs to remove Elfrid Payton from the starting lineup was a really bad coaching decision in the sense we all so what happening months ago and because we were winning "enough" he kept playing him. We had time to adjust and get comfortable with a new lineup but he stubbornly stuck with the rotation even starting him to then never bring him back in because he didn't want to "mess with the bench". It was a silly decision and making that change in game 2 of the playoffs is too late.

To me, a good coach is someone who is able to elevate the talent, to get them to win when they shouldn't

Like, let's look at his postseason resume

2011 he beat the 37 win Pacers and 44 win Hawks. Neither of those are super impressive for a 1 seed who won 60 games

2012 lost in the 1st round

2013 beat a pretty decent Brooklyn team

2014 lost in the 1st round

2015 beat a Bucks team whose leading scorer was 23-year-old Khris Middleton

2018 lost in the 1st round

2021 lost in the 1st round

2023 beat the Donovan Mitchell Cavs

So in 8 trips to the playoffs, you can argue his teams have beaten a team they shouldn't twice (2023 and 2013). And like I said, that's even not super impressive because the teams he's beaten which he arguably shouldn't aren't like, great contenders, just teams that are better on paper by a bit.

[magee]

McBride's confidence is through the roof. Was cool to see tonight.

[aq_ua]

Its much easier to win in the post season when you've got prime Curry, Klay, Draymond, KD, Lebron, Wade, Jokic, Giannis, Tatum with stacked rosters surrounding them. Thibs got Nerlens Noel, Reggie Bullock and Randle as starters. Its not the same thing

I don't really think anyone holds the ATL series against thibs...he has had some talented teams in the playoffs. Those CHI teams weren't buns. Our team last year wasn't buns.

But waiting until after game 1 in the playoffs to remove Elfrid Payton from the starting lineup was a really bad coaching decision in the sense we all so what happening months ago and because we were winning "enough" he kept playing him. We had time to adjust and get comfortable with a new lineup but he stubbornly stuck with the rotation even starting him to then never bring him back in because he didn't want to "mess with the bench". It was a silly decision and making that change in game 2 of the playoffs is too late.

To me, a good coach is someone who is able to elevate the talent, to get them to win when they shouldn't

Like, let's look at his postseason resume

2011 he beat the 37 win Pacers and 44 win Hawks. Neither of those are super impressive for a 1 seed who won 60 games

2012 lost in the 1st round

2013 beat a pretty decent Brooklyn team

2014 lost in the 1st round

2015 beat a Bucks team whose leading scorer was 23-year-old Khris Middleton

2018 lost in the 1st round

2021 lost in the 1st round

2023 beat the Donovan Mitchell Cavs

So in 8 trips to the playoffs, you can argue his teams have beaten a team they shouldn't twice (2023 and 2013). And like I said, that's even not super impressive because the teams he's beaten which he arguably shouldn't aren't like, great contenders, just teams that are better on paper by a bit.

Seems like you’re holding his regular season success against him though. What if his teams simply overachieve in the regular season, which creates the appearance of superiority in the playoffs, but really they’ve all been solidly mediocre. Talent wise, this is the most talented team he has ever coached *when healthy*.

[Gravy]

I don't really think anyone holds the ATL series against thibs...he has had some talented teams in the playoffs. Those CHI teams weren't buns. Our team last year wasn't buns.

But waiting until after game 1 in the playoffs to remove Elfrid Payton from the starting lineup was a really bad coaching decision in the sense we all so what happening months ago and because we were winning "enough" he kept playing him. We had time to adjust and get comfortable with a new lineup but he stubbornly stuck with the rotation even starting him to then never bring him back in because he didn't want to "mess with the bench". It was a silly decision and making that change in game 2 of the playoffs is too late.

payton played 8 mins in game 1

im not blaming game 1 loss on thibs starting payton for 8 minutes. I'm saying we had plenty of time to adjust so if Rose was going to put with the starters that should hav happened well before the playoffs so the bench also could have acclimated with the change. Making a change like that to your rotation in the playoffs is way too much. I know his minutes were going down but he was still avg about 20 mins per game up until a few games before the playoffs started. And then having that big change to completely remove him from the rotation just was a done way too late.

we all saw it coming he was an overrated defender that couldn't shoot and teams weren't even guarding him so we knew how ATL was going to adjust. We knew that was going to get exposed in the playoffs. He had more time to say give IQ more minutes as a rookie and prepare him for a larger role with Burks off the bench if he was going to start Rose.

That series was lost no matter what because of the talent gap. Elfrid was crucial to us getting the 4th seed that year but that's as far as the roster could take them. The Hawks went to the conference finals, rookie IQ and washed Derrick Rose's minutes was not making a big difference.

[mpharris36]

payton played 8 mins in game 1

im not blaming game 1 loss on thibs starting payton for 8 minutes. I'm saying we had plenty of time to adjust so if Rose was going to put with the starters that should hav happened well before the playoffs so the bench also could have acclimated with the change. Making a change like that to your rotation in the playoffs is way too much. I know his minutes were going down but he was still avg about 20 mins per game up until a few games before the playoffs started. And then having that big change to completely remove him from the rotation just was a done way too late.

we all saw it coming he was an overrated defender that couldn't shoot and teams weren't even guarding him so we knew how ATL was going to adjust. We knew that was going to get exposed in the playoffs. He had more time to say give IQ more minutes as a rookie and prepare him for a larger role with Burks off the bench if he was going to start Rose.

in the month of may he was averaging 15 mins before the playoffs. did not play a single game of 20 mins or more in that month. thibs was clearly phasing him out of the rotation for the playoffs. rose was already finishing games and playing with the starters. payton at that point was just playing for the beginning of the game and back to the bench. i dont see how thibs not removing him completely from the rotation would've made a significant difference. this is just nitpicking hardcore for your anti thibs agenda

and like others have said, there isnt a series that thibs had more talent than the other team and still lost. so...

who has an anti thibs agenda...just like a player, a coach can be criticized too. He isn't impervious of criticism if it is deserved.

[DOT]

To put it another way, the teams Thibs has beaten in the postseason have an average of 44 wins in the regular season to his teams having an average in those years of 51 wins in the regular season

The teams he loses to have an average of 55 wins in the regular season to his 50 wins in the regular season in those same years. Not counting 2012 or 2021 because those were both shortened years and in 2012 D Rose went down so those are both kinda outliers. But for reference, over an 82 game season at their rates, the 2021 Hawks would be a 47-win team and the 2012 6ers would be a 43-win team to 47 wins for the 2021 Knicks and 62 for the 2012 Bulls

Thibs teams beat the teams they should beat and lose to the teams they should lose to. That's not the mark of a good coach.

[Clyde_Style]

who has an anti thibs agenda...just like a player, a coach can be criticized too. He isn't impervious of criticism if it is deserved.

Trolling is accomplished by categorizing groups into factions for and against.

Calling someone Anti-this or that is usually trolling.

Calling people stupid for criticizing a coach is trolling.

Black and White denunciations of opposing opinions are usually a form of trolling.

Trolls don't like nuance. They can't accept that you may agree on some points and disagree with others. To them, you are either for or against something 100% which is neither real life nor reasonable in any way. The only way they can control a narrative is by dumbing down any nuance into a binary choice.

[mpharris36]

payton played 8 mins in game 1

im not blaming game 1 loss on thibs starting payton for 8 minutes. I'm saying we had plenty of time to adjust so if Rose was going to put with the starters that should hav happened well before the playoffs so the bench also could have acclimated with the change. Making a change like that to your rotation in the playoffs is way too much. I know his minutes were going down but he was still avg about 20 mins per game up until a few games before the playoffs started. And then having that big change to completely remove him from the rotation just was a done way too late.

we all saw it coming he was an overrated defender that couldn't shoot and teams weren't even guarding him so we knew how ATL was going to adjust. We knew that was going to get exposed in the playoffs. He had more time to say give IQ more minutes as a rookie and prepare him for a larger role with Burks off the bench if he was going to start Rose.

That series was lost no matter what because of the talent gap. Elfrid was crucial to us getting the 4th seed that year but that's as far as the roster could take them. The Hawks went to the conference finals, rookie IQ and washed Derrick Rose's minutes was not making a big difference.

washed derrick rose minutes...da fuq you talking about? And elfrid payton being crucial to us getting the 4th seed...I think you are misremembering.

We were floundering 11-15 before trading for Rose and then we finished the year 30-16 after the Rose trade.

Rose was playing 26.8 minutes on .487/.411/.883 splits for us. Rose was indeed the key reason we jumped from a 11-15 team to the 4th seed.

[DOT]

Seems like you’re holding his regular season success against him though. What if his teams simply overachieve in the regular season, which creates the appearance of superiority in the playoffs, but really they’ve all been solidly mediocre. Talent wise, this is the most talented team he has ever coached *when healthy*.

That doesn't change anything though

Even if those teams were all actually mediocre, there'd still only be those two good wins in there, and it's still not like the 2013 Nets or the 2023 Cavs were world beaters

When he faces better teams, he loses. That isn't the mark of a good coach. If his teams were mediocre and beating better competition regularly, you might have a point. But they don't

Last year was the first time in his career he beat a team who won 50 or more games in the regular season.

[3toheadmelo]

Its much easier to win in the post season when you've got prime Curry, Klay, Draymond, KD, Lebron, Wade, Jokic, Giannis, Tatum with stacked rosters surrounding them. Thibs got Nerlens Noel, Reggie Bullock and Randle as starters. Its not the same thing

I don't really think anyone holds the ATL series against thibs...he has had some talented teams in the playoffs. Those CHI teams weren't buns. Our team last year wasn't buns.

But waiting until after game 1 in the playoffs to remove Elfrid Payton from the starting lineup was a really bad coaching decision in the sense we all so what happening months ago and because we were winning "enough" he kept playing him. We had time to adjust and get comfortable with a new lineup but he stubbornly stuck with the rotation even starting him to then never bring him back in because he didn't want to "mess with the bench". It was a silly decision and making that change in game 2 of the playoffs is too late.

To me, a good coach is someone who is able to elevate the talent, to get them to win when they shouldn't

Like, let's look at his postseason resume

2011 he beat the 37 win Pacers and 44 win Hawks. Neither of those are super impressive for a 1 seed who won 60 games

2012 lost in the 1st round

2013 beat a pretty decent Brooklyn team

2014 lost in the 1st round

2015 beat a Bucks team whose leading scorer was 23-year-old Khris Middleton

2018 lost in the 1st round

2021 lost in the 1st round

2023 beat the Donovan Mitchell Cavs

So in 8 trips to the playoffs, you can argue his teams have beaten a team they shouldn't twice (2023 and 2013). And like I said, that's even not super impressive because the teams he's beaten which he arguably shouldn't aren't like, great contenders, just teams that are better on paper by a bit.

lets take a look at this in context since you said you only started watching ball in 2018 or 2017

in 2011 they went to the ecf against the big 3 in miami.
in 2012 d rose tore his acl
in 2013 got to 2nd round without d rose
in 2014 no d rose
in 2015 lost to the nba finals cavs in 6 games
in 2018 lost to the rockets who took gsw to 7 games in the wcf

there isnt a series thibs should've won that he lost. he won everything with the talent that was given to him. and most of those teams there wasnt much talent there. majority of those teams thibs was relying on backup point guards. nate robinson, cj watson, washed kirk hinrich, dj augustine. thibs was overachieving with those teams at that point.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[3toheadmelo]

im not blaming game 1 loss on thibs starting payton for 8 minutes. I'm saying we had plenty of time to adjust so if Rose was going to put with the starters that should hav happened well before the playoffs so the bench also could have acclimated with the change. Making a change like that to your rotation in the playoffs is way too much. I know his minutes were going down but he was still avg about 20 mins per game up until a few games before the playoffs started. And then having that big change to completely remove him from the rotation just was a done way too late.

we all saw it coming he was an overrated defender that couldn't shoot and teams weren't even guarding him so we knew how ATL was going to adjust. We knew that was going to get exposed in the playoffs. He had more time to say give IQ more minutes as a rookie and prepare him for a larger role with Burks off the bench if he was going to start Rose.

in the month of may he was averaging 15 mins before the playoffs. did not play a single game of 20 mins or more in that month. thibs was clearly phasing him out of the rotation for the playoffs. rose was already finishing games and playing with the starters. payton at that point was just playing for the beginning of the game and back to the bench. i dont see how thibs not removing him completely from the rotation would've made a significant difference. this is just nitpicking hardcore for your anti thibs agenda

and like others have said, there isnt a series that thibs had more talent than the other team and still lost. so...

who has an anti thibs agenda...just like a player, a coach can be criticized too. He isn't impervious of criticism if it is deserved.

bro you be saying **** you thibs in like every game thread and have said mad times you want him fired

and theres a bunch of you guys here too on that same timing

[god shammgod]

thibs aint getting fired anytime soon and everyone knows it. this is all pointless.

[DOT]

there isnt a series thibs should've won that he lost.

Not the argument

Show me which series Thibs should have lost that he won. That's two different things

Like I said, last year is arguably his most impressive series win, and the first time a team of his beat an opponent who won 50 games in the regular season

Good coaches beat better teams. Thibs does not. He beats teams he should beat and loses to teams he should lose to.

[DOT]

Also yes, I created an account on here in 2016 but didn't start watching basketball until 2018 after they made me a mod

[Gravy]

im not blaming game 1 loss on thibs starting payton for 8 minutes. I'm saying we had plenty of time to adjust so if Rose was going to put with the starters that should hav happened well before the playoffs so the bench also could have acclimated with the change. Making a change like that to your rotation in the playoffs is way too much. I know his minutes were going down but he was still avg about 20 mins per game up until a few games before the playoffs started. And then having that big change to completely remove him from the rotation just was a done way too late.

we all saw it coming he was an overrated defender that couldn't shoot and teams weren't even guarding him so we knew how ATL was going to adjust. We knew that was going to get exposed in the playoffs. He had more time to say give IQ more minutes as a rookie and prepare him for a larger role with Burks off the bench if he was going to start Rose.

That series was lost no matter what because of the talent gap. Elfrid was crucial to us getting the 4th seed that year but that's as far as the roster could take them. The Hawks went to the conference finals, rookie IQ and washed Derrick Rose's minutes was not making a big difference.

washed derrick rose minutes...da fuq you talking about? And elfrid payton being crucial to us getting the 4th seed...I think you are misremembering.

We were floundering 11-15 before trading for Rose and then we finished the year 30-16 after the Rose trade.

Rose was playing 26.8 minutes on .487/.411/.883 splits for us. Rose was indeed the key reason we jumped from a 11-15 team to the 4th seed.

I should have said Trae Young made Rose look old in the playoffs. Rose was great in the reg season because Thibs wisely kept him fresh off the bench. Payton was basically our Deuce that season.

But like I said the talent gap was too much..Rose, IQ, Payton's minutes weren't making a difference against the Hawks. How many coaches would have beat them with our roster that was supposed to be a bottom five team when the season began?

[3toheadmelo]

there isnt a series thibs should've won that he lost.

Not the argument

Show me which series Thibs should have lost that he won. That's two different things

Like I said, last year is arguably his most impressive series win, and the first time a team of his beat an opponent who won 50 games in the regular season

Good coaches beat better teams. Thibs does not. He beats teams he should beat and loses to teams he should lose to.

so you're saying he should've won more with guys like nate robinson, cj watson, dj augustine, kirk hinrich? you can't be serious man. what coach is taking those guys to the ecf?

[K_ick_God]

Two PGs always seems to work really well. With Hart it’s like 3.