PG: Embarrassing loss to ORL

[oldshoolballer]

so playing playoff rotations during the regular season isn't sustainable....who would have thought that would be the case.

Since like every team in the history of the NBA doesn't play like this...

Thibs may have just ruined the entire season with his stupid mismanagement of players minutes. Yes we don't have a very good bench right now but players still need a break. Fatigue leads to injuries. It's not rocket science. KAT got injured when the game was well out of reach.

[Iron Mantis]

[NoDopeOnSundays]

My instinct is to say this is a misleading stat because bad rebuilding teams are naturally going to play their benches more. I don’t think the team rank is very important

Yes he plays his bench fewer minutes but18th to last is a big drop off and it correlates with the talent level available. He built up those 3 players value bringing them in as bench players and rookie so it’s off to use their starting status(Ihart and Donte started here by the end of it) as a bad thing he did when they had little value and he got them paid

You don't think rank is important because it hurts your point about Tom, I understand. The real point is that he rides his starters more than anyone else, which is what the stat really shows. Is that the complaints Bulls & Wolves fans had about him playing starters too much holds true for us too, whether or not the talent was good or bad it didn't really matter because he was going to play his bench. We're having the same exact problems the Bulls and Wolves had with him, 3 different teams with the same issues, it's the coach.

18th is an outlier based on all those other years where his teams have benches that basically don't play, you're focused on that and not all the years his teams rank 25 or higher.

I’m not disagreeing about riding his starters more than anyone else and that would likely be the case no matter what but I also don’t think it would be nearly this egregious if we had a better bench. This is probably the worst bench we’ve had since he took over the head coaching job. Derrick Rose and Burks were better. Anything with Quickley was better. This is an exceptionally dire situation.

His history says that he just won't play his bench much, he had talented players on his bench between the Bulls and Wolves and they still didn't play as much as you'd expect. This is 3 rosters spread out over a decade, the complaints I can pull up from the Bulls fans will look like the Wolves fans which will look like ours. That's the thing with him, just like Doc Rivers there's a long history of coaching and fanbases all saying the same thing.


2017 - You could change the names to Knicks players and it all would apply

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/65773z/tom_thibodeau_is_a_maniac/


2012
https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago-bulls/post/_/id/11013/thibodeau-defends-high-minutes-for-deng-noah



Time is a flat circle.

[robillionaire]

You don't think rank is important because it hurts your point about Tom, I understand. The real point is that he rides his starters more than anyone else, which is what the stat really shows. Is that the complaints Bulls & Wolves fans had about him playing starters too much holds true for us too, whether or not the talent was good or bad it didn't really matter because he was going to play his bench. We're having the same exact problems the Bulls and Wolves had with him, 3 different teams with the same issues, it's the coach.

18th is an outlier based on all those other years where his teams have benches that basically don't play, you're focused on that and not all the years his teams rank 25 or higher.

I’m not disagreeing about riding his starters more than anyone else and that would likely be the case no matter what but I also don’t think it would be nearly this egregious if we had a better bench. This is probably the worst bench we’ve had since he took over the head coaching job. Derrick Rose and Burks were better. Anything with Quickley was better. This is an exceptionally dire situation.

BS. THIBS is the problem. Period.

Well you said period so I guess that’s the end of the conversation. I’m sure when we get a new coach and he rolls out Payne Kolek Dadiet Precious Hukporti lineups we will cruise to the championship. No need to adjust the roster we are witnessing greatness held back by one man

[Jalen Bluntson]

Oh yeah, so the guys on our bench are worse than the bench warmers the Magic trotted out tonight because they are down 4 rotation players? Guys who won't see a minute once their rotation is back? And they still went 10 deep, outplaying our regulars. How? Talent? We had more talent tonight, so don't know wtf you're talking about.

They were missing FIVE of their best players and still went ten deep and blew us out! It's absolutely the HC and there's nothing left to say. Thibs has to go. Period.

It’s literally a combination of several things:

Weak bench.
Thibs refusing to spell minutes for rookies.
Starters being tired, which is not really an excuse since Magic got their asses handed to them by the Jazz the previous night and were playing without all their best players.
Bad minutes distribution throughout the season.

But the bench is still god awful and it will not fly come playoff time.

Come playoff time the bench minutes drop dramatically. You are grasping for straws here. THAT'S when you run 8-9 man rotations. Not the entire season. You use the regular season to work your bench in to keep your team fresh for the playoffs. Then, if you do happen to have injuries, your bench guys have already built chemistry and may be able to hold down the fort.

This isn't rocket science. It's literally the way every winning team operates. Thibs has it backwards and ALWAYS has been this way. Payne/Shamet/Precious have all played on playoff teams off the bench. They can't play regular season here? Nonsense. Thibs sucks and Orlando just proved it.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I’m not disagreeing about riding his starters more than anyone else and that would likely be the case no matter what but I also don’t think it would be nearly this egregious if we had a better bench. This is probably the worst bench we’ve had since he took over the head coaching job. Derrick Rose and Burks were better. Anything with Quickley was better. This is an exceptionally dire situation.

BS. THIBS is the problem. Period.

Well you said period so I guess that’s the end of the conversation. I’m sure when we get a new coach and he rolls out Payne Kolek Dadiet Precious Hukporti lineups we will cruise to the championship. No need to adjust the roster we are witnessing greatness held back by one man

[Jalen Bluntson]

I’m not disagreeing about riding his starters more than anyone else and that would likely be the case no matter what but I also don’t think it would be nearly this egregious if we had a better bench. This is probably the worst bench we’ve had since he took over the head coaching job. Derrick Rose and Burks were better. Anything with Quickley was better. This is an exceptionally dire situation.

BS. THIBS is the problem. Period.

Well you said period so I guess that’s the end of the conversation. I’m sure when we get a new coach and he rolls out Payne Kolek Dadiet Precious Hukporti lineups we will cruise to the championship. No need to adjust the roster we are witnessing greatness held back by one man

Don't be mad that you're wrong. Just be wrong and keep it to yourself. The proof has been laid out for all of you people stuck in denial. You literally just watched it happen. Stop fooling yourselves and twisting things to sound cute. Thibs runs his players into the ground because he refuses to work his bench into the rotations. Then he expects his bench to come in and pay extended minutes immediately. We have seen this over and over again and so have EVERY team he has ever coached. Playoff failures and regular season success. It's backwards.

[robillionaire]

BS. THIBS is the problem. Period.

Well you said period so I guess that’s the end of the conversation. I’m sure when we get a new coach and he rolls out Payne Kolek Dadiet Precious Hukporti lineups we will cruise to the championship. No need to adjust the roster we are witnessing greatness held back by one man

Don't be mad that you're wrong. Just be wrong and keep it to yourself. The proof has been laid out for all of you people stuck in denial. You literally just watched it happen. Stop fooling yourselves and twisting things to sound cute. Thibs runs his players into the ground because he refuses to work his bench into the rotations. Then he expects his bench to come in and pay extended minutes immediately. We have seen this over and over again and so have EVERY team he has ever coached. Playoff failures and regular season success. It's backwards.

Yeah I’m going to keep it to myself from here on out, there’s no conversation left to be had against this mob I’m just going to try to enjoy the rest of the season on my own

[NiceLikeChrist]

I’m not disagreeing about riding his starters more than anyone else and that would likely be the case no matter what but I also don’t think it would be nearly this egregious if we had a better bench. This is probably the worst bench we’ve had since he took over the head coaching job. Derrick Rose and Burks were better. Anything with Quickley was better. This is an exceptionally dire situation.

BS. THIBS is the problem. Period.

Well you said period so I guess that’s the end of the conversation. I’m sure when we get a new coach and he rolls out Payne Kolek Dadiet Precious Hukporti lineups we will cruise to the championship. No need to adjust the roster we are witnessing greatness held back by one man

The funny thing is thibs probably has the same line of thinking as you. It has to be a 5 man lineup of Payne, kolek, Dadiet, precious, huk. There’s no other way to implement them.

Who the hell is asking for that? What coach does that? How about stagger minutes. How about find a lineup of 3 starters and 2 bench guys that shows decent production? Get crazy with it, 3 bench guys and 2 starters! I know it would shock thibs into a coma but it might be worth considering.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Well you said period so I guess that’s the end of the conversation. I’m sure when we get a new coach and he rolls out Payne Kolek Dadiet Precious Hukporti lineups we will cruise to the championship. No need to adjust the roster we are witnessing greatness held back by one man

Don't be mad that you're wrong. Just be wrong and keep it to yourself. The proof has been laid out for all of you people stuck in denial. You literally just watched it happen. Stop fooling yourselves and twisting things to sound cute. Thibs runs his players into the ground because he refuses to work his bench into the rotations. Then he expects his bench to come in and pay extended minutes immediately. We have seen this over and over again and so have EVERY team he has ever coached. Playoff failures and regular season success. It's backwards.

Yeah I’m going to keep it to myself from here on out, there’s no conversation left to be had against this mob I’m just going to try to enjoy the rest of the season on my own

Bye

[NiceLikeChrist]

We have the best starters in the league. Your job as a coach is to recognize that and preserve them for a playoff run where depth matters less.

If you want to go into April and may running 7 and 8 man lineups be my guest. Don’t do it from October to March and start scratching your head in January talking about we had low energy tonight idk why.

[Jalen Bluntson]

BS. THIBS is the problem. Period.

Well you said period so I guess that’s the end of the conversation. I’m sure when we get a new coach and he rolls out Payne Kolek Dadiet Precious Hukporti lineups we will cruise to the championship. No need to adjust the roster we are witnessing greatness held back by one man

done son!

[Butch718]

They were missing FIVE of their best players and still went ten deep and blew us out! It's absolutely the HC and there's nothing left to say. Thibs has to go. Period.

It’s literally a combination of several things:

Weak bench.
Thibs refusing to spell minutes for rookies.
Starters being tired, which is not really an excuse since Magic got their asses handed to them by the Jazz the previous night and were playing without all their best players.
Bad minutes distribution throughout the season.

But the bench is still god awful and it will not fly come playoff time.

Come playoff time the bench minutes drop dramatically. You are grasping for straws here. THAT'S when you run 8-9 man rotations. Not the entire season. You use the regular season to work your bench in to keep your team fresh for the playoffs. Then, if you do happen to have injuries, your bench guys have already built chemistry and may be able to hold down the fort.

This isn't rocket science. It's literally the way every winning team operates. Thibs has it backwards and ALWAYS has been this way. Payne/Shamet/Precious have all played on playoff teams off the bench. They can't play regular season here? Nonsense. Thibs sucks and Orlando just proved it.

I think you’re the one grasping at straws. A lot of projection there with that comment. Some of you guys wanna be right so badly about the points that you’re making that you can’t even see that I was in agreement with you.

You still need legit bench guys that can provide a spark off the bench come playoff time. “This really isn’t rocket science.”

Payne, Shamet and Precious are not gonna get it done. And please don’t say Mitch because that dude is never healthy. Deuce being the only reliable bench piece no matter how tight rotations are in the playoffs will not get it done either.

Also add to the fact that if one key starter goes down, there literally isn’t a decent replacement off the bench for said starter, because let’s be real, the chances that the starting 5 will all be healthy come playoff time aren’t that great. Especially if Kat comes down, you cannot run Sims or Precious out there.

So blame Thibs all you want, the bench is still complete ass. The roster as currently constructed is still extremely flawed.

And yes, Thibs deserves blame for how minutes have been distributed, so you can’t label me as some apologist because I think he deserves criticism for his decision making process as well.

[spree2kawhi]

I said that this team has no identity.

The Magic, even with the injuries, still play very good defense and play with energy. That keeps them competitive.

We have nothing to fall back on.

So here we are again after a short bad stretch

[The KnicksFix]

Well you said period so I guess that’s the end of the conversation. I’m sure when we get a new coach and he rolls out Payne Kolek Dadiet Precious Hukporti lineups we will cruise to the championship. No need to adjust the roster we are witnessing greatness held back by one man

Don't be mad that you're wrong. Just be wrong and keep it to yourself. The proof has been laid out for all of you people stuck in denial. You literally just watched it happen. Stop fooling yourselves and twisting things to sound cute. Thibs runs his players into the ground because he refuses to work his bench into the rotations. Then he expects his bench to come in and pay extended minutes immediately. We have seen this over and over again and so have EVERY team he has ever coached. Playoff failures and regular season success. It's backwards.

Yeah I’m going to keep it to myself from here on out, there’s no conversation left to be had against this mob I’m just going to try to enjoy the rest of the season on my own

So you want to keep the same players rolling out every night? Shamet who gave you 0? Precious who can’t guard and continues to give up 3’s? Sims who has oil cans for hands?
What don’t you see? The team is lacking energy and a floor general off the bench. And someone who can come in and command the paint defense. We have both in kolek and huk. Even if you don’t like them you still need to play them so they can be flipped for other players.

There are a multitude of things that Thibs does wrong. He doesn’t have offensive creativity. He doesn’t play a bench. He refuses to change from a switch heavy defense and continues to play KAT in drop coverage. Our starters are fried less than halfway thru the season.

Pick your poison but don’t act like Thibs is not the problem. The quality of the losses thru the year is what’s alarming to most posters. It’s one thing to be ignorant. It’s another thing to just be in denial.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Well you said period so I guess that’s the end of the conversation. I’m sure when we get a new coach and he rolls out Payne Kolek Dadiet Precious Hukporti lineups we will cruise to the championship. No need to adjust the roster we are witnessing greatness held back by one man

Don't be mad that you're wrong. Just be wrong and keep it to yourself. The proof has been laid out for all of you people stuck in denial. You literally just watched it happen. Stop fooling yourselves and twisting things to sound cute. Thibs runs his players into the ground because he refuses to work his bench into the rotations. Then he expects his bench to come in and pay extended minutes immediately. We have seen this over and over again and so have EVERY team he has ever coached. Playoff failures and regular season success. It's backwards.

Yeah I’m going to keep it to myself from here on out, there’s no conversation left to be had against this mob I’m just going to try to enjoy the rest of the season on my own

If you were a Cavs fan you no doubt would have been against firing JB Bickerstaff cause he helped turn things around, developed young guys and got them to the second round. You have a sentimental view of Tom, and that's fine, but understand that to take the next step we probably need a new coach.

[spree2kawhi]

This happens every season and people start thinking the sky is falling and then we run off another 8 in a row

This. Brunson basically saying they’re tired is concerning though.

[The KnicksFix]

Don't be mad that you're wrong. Just be wrong and keep it to yourself. The proof has been laid out for all of you people stuck in denial. You literally just watched it happen. Stop fooling yourselves and twisting things to sound cute. Thibs runs his players into the ground because he refuses to work his bench into the rotations. Then he expects his bench to come in and pay extended minutes immediately. We have seen this over and over again and so have EVERY team he has ever coached. Playoff failures and regular season success. It's backwards.

Yeah I’m going to keep it to myself from here on out, there’s no conversation left to be had against this mob I’m just going to try to enjoy the rest of the season on my own

If you were a Cavs fan you no doubt would have been against firing JB Bickerstaff cause he helped turn things around, developed young guys and got them to the second round. You have a sentimental view of Tom, and that's fine, but understand that to take the next step we probably need a new coach.

Exactly this, thibs thrives in taking a team of mediocre players, and squeezing the absolute most out of them to be competitive. What he can’t do, is take one hell of a polished roster and turn it into a dynasty.

[Jalen Bluntson]

It’s literally a combination of several things:

Weak bench.
Thibs refusing to spell minutes for rookies.
Starters being tired, which is not really an excuse since Magic got their asses handed to them by the Jazz the previous night and were playing without all their best players.
Bad minutes distribution throughout the season.

But the bench is still god awful and it will not fly come playoff time.

Come playoff time the bench minutes drop dramatically. You are grasping for straws here. THAT'S when you run 8-9 man rotations. Not the entire season. You use the regular season to work your bench in to keep your team fresh for the playoffs. Then, if you do happen to have injuries, your bench guys have already built chemistry and may be able to hold down the fort.

This isn't rocket science. It's literally the way every winning team operates. Thibs has it backwards and ALWAYS has been this way. Payne/Shamet/Precious have all played on playoff teams off the bench. They can't play regular season here? Nonsense. Thibs sucks and Orlando just proved it.

I think you’re the one grasping at straws. A lot of projection there with that comment. Some of you guys wanna be right so badly about the points that you’re making that you can’t even see that I am agreeing with you somewhat.

You still need legit bench guys that can provide a spark off the bench come playoff time. “This is really rocket science.”

Payne, Shamet and Precious are not gonna get it done. And please don’t say Mitch because that dude is never healthy. Deuce being the only reliable bench piece no matter how tight rotations are in the playoffs will not get it done either.

Also add to the fact that if one key starter goes down, there literally isn’t a decent replacement off the bench for said starter, because let’s be real, the chances that the starting 5 will all be healthy come playoff time aren’t that great. Especially if Kat comes down, you cannot run Sims or Precious out there.

So blame Thibs all you want, the bench is still complete ass.

And yes, Thibs deserves blame for how minutes have been distributed, so you can’t label me as some apologist because I think he deserves criticism as well.

Then calm down. It's difficult to separate the cultist Thibs fans from regular people who defend him. This bench is not as bad as people make it seem. That's where we definitely disagree. You sound like your trying to make excuses by trashing them so you got lumped in with the rest. I agree we could use an upgrade or two but, they may already be here. We wouldn't know because Thibs doesn't use his bench properly at all and never has.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

This happens every season and people start thinking the sky is falling and then we run off another 8 in a row

This. Brunson basically saying they’re tired is concerning though.

Time is a flat circle

After playing as hard as they could most of the season, the Bulls have hit a wall. It's evident on the faces of Joakim Noah and Luol Deng, and it was evident in a lifeless 101-98 loss to the Kyrie Irving-less Cleveland Cavaliers Tuesday night. The Bulls are tired, and it appears that all the physical and emotional ups and downs of the past few weeks, including injuries, Derrick and Reggie Rose's comments, and a brutal schedule over the last month, have finally caught up to this beleaguered team.

Of course, Thibodeau doesn't want to hear it.

"We are not the only team that has played this much time," Thibodeau said. "Every team in the league has. This is what separates the teams in the league. The teams that can get it done when they are not feeling their best and still be committed in doing the job and getting it done, those are the teams that have success."

- 2013

The Timberwolves lost in overtime, 118-112, to a sluggish Sixers team that not only shot poorly, but didn’t see a bucket from Ben Simmons until the final minutes of the fourth quarter. If one thing stuck out for Minnesota, it was the team looked exhausted despite the Sixers missing a key piece in Robert Covington, and the Wolves having their full unit.

Coach Tom Thibodeau is infamous for running his players into the ground, and it might be taking a toll on his team. Out of 53 possible minutes, Karl-Anthony Towns played 48 of them. Jimmy Butler played more than 45, Andrew Wiggins and Taj Gibson 40, and Jeff Teague 38. The Timberwolves went their usual eight players deep, and in overtime, that showed

- 2017