PG: Knicks vs. Kings: All Around Effort

[knicks94]

The way people complaining about minutes our guys are playing 43-44 and everyone in the league is at 30, top 4 guys are all within a few seconds of each other. Brunson and KAT are 23 and 31 respectively. Durant's old a*s is top 15, grandfather LeBron is nearly at 35 a game. The sky isn't falling, Thibs is a good coach

And where are the Lakers and Suns in the standing? 5th and 8th.

Look at the top 2 teams in the L: Thunder and Cavs, COMBINED have only 1 player in L's TOP 50 in mpg (SGA at #32 with 34.4mpg), and only 4 more players in top 100 (J-Will #56, DMitch #80, Garland #92, Mobley #96). DMitch leads Cavs with 31.4MPG !

There's a reason they're elite 4th q performers, and there's a reason why we looked fresh vs Kings after 3 days off.

Other than fatigue he also doesn't take out starters when games are well decided, why was KAT still on the floor with 3 mins in last game when Kings already pulled their starters out? The same KAT who hurt his hand vs Bulls STILL PLAYING WHEN THE GAME WAS OVER IN THE LAST MINS, causing him to miss few games, and causing him to take time (around 2 weeks) to get back his All Star form, and he's likely to play the rest of the season with bone chip in his right thumb because of that.

These are minor-medium injuries that are gonna affect the team months from now.

Wait until the REAL injuries come when our key players are not supposed to be on the floor, but they are.

---

And how's Thibs good again?? He's far removed from his defense years in Chicago. Teams have no problems scoring on us (46.8 FG% for 18th in the L, and 37.7 3P% for 3rd worst in the L). He's never been an offense coach, so how is good again??

Paul Westhead good? Lakers replaced him with no experience Pat Riley.

Doug Collins good? Bulls replaced him with no experience Phil Jackson.

Mark Jackson good? Warriors replaced him with no experience Steve Kerr.

You Thibs defenders are conservative thinking, afraid to take leaps necessary to be champions, and will stick to just "good".

Good is the enemy of great CHAMPIONS!

It is the typical NY sports fan mentality to be content with mediocrity. Thibs doesn't have to coach championship level basketball to satisfy his fanbase, all he needs to do is win 47-50 games a season and he is above criticism.

[thebuzzardman]

And where are the Lakers and Suns in the standing? 5th and 8th.

Look at the top 2 teams in the L: Thunder and Cavs, COMBINED have only 1 player in L's TOP 50 in mpg (SGA at #32 with 34.4mpg), and only 4 more players in top 100 (J-Will #56, DMitch #80, Garland #92, Mobley #96). DMitch leads Cavs with 31.4MPG !

There's a reason they're elite 4th q performers, and there's a reason why we looked fresh vs Kings after 3 days off.

Other than fatigue he also doesn't take out starters when games are well decided, why was KAT still on the floor with 3 mins in last game when Kings already pulled their starters out? The same KAT who hurt his hand vs Bulls STILL PLAYING WHEN THE GAME WAS OVER IN THE LAST MINS, causing him to miss few games, and causing him to take time (around 2 weeks) to get back his All Star form, and he's likely to play the rest of the season with bone chip in his right thumb because of that.

These are minor-medium injuries that are gonna affect the team months from now.

Wait until the REAL injuries come when our key players are not supposed to be on the floor, but they are.

---

And how's Thibs good again?? He's far removed from his defense years in Chicago. Teams have no problems scoring on us (46.8 FG% for 18th in the L, and 37.7 3P% for 3rd worst in the L). He's never been an offense coach, so how is good again??

Paul Westhead good? Lakers replaced him with no experience Pat Riley.

Doug Collins good? Bulls replaced him with no experience Phil Jackson.

Mark Jackson good? Warriors replaced him with no experience Steve Kerr.

You Thibs defenders are conservative thinking, afraid to take leaps necessary to be champions, and will stick to just "good".

Good is the enemy of great CHAMPIONS!

Not saying some of your points don't matter, but Knicks are #5 in the NBA in point differential, which is probably the stat that matters most.

OKC
Cleveland
Boston
Memphis
NY
Houston

I think every team on that list have better legit bench depth, but also Thibs doesn't play his bench that much when it's good, so there's that.

Playing a little devil's advocate here for the sake of the discussion: If you look at that list---in terms of talent---which roster would you be willing to do a complete swap?

OKC: For me I think OKC is overall more well-rounded and talented and I'd very likely swap rosters.

Memphis: Memphis has currently a slightly better record and Morant has missed 19 games! They are 19-8 with Morant. Their point differential is much better than ours. Are they clearly more talented though? I doubt it.

I personally would take our roster over Cleveland's and Houston's as well (especially Houston) and both teams are better.
On top of all that OKC, Cleveland, Boston and Houston have had a clearly tougher schedule than us. Ours has been pretty soft. If we had a tougher schedule there is every possibility we could be sitting at like 27-19 type of record.....keep that in mind. I will reserve judgement and am currently neither pro nor against Thibs, but there definitely are reasons to be concerned going forward....

SGA is playing less minutes than any of our starters---keep in mind OKC has missed IHart for the first 6 weeks and then Holmgreen since then....yet they are on top of the league while keeping SGA under 35minutes. That to me is a sound, sustainable model of success....Isaiah Joe, Caruso....and then Kenrich Williams, Jaylin Williams and Ousmane Dieng....is their bench truly THAT much better than ours? Or is their coach just trusting their bench more?

Not sure about all the roster swapping stuff.

Boston, Houston and Memphis have better depth HANDS DOWN.
Cleveland has better depth, just not as obvious as the first 3.
OKC, I still think that's a better bench, but not by much.
It's a better starting 5 though.

Thibs can play the bench more, but it's not like it's all that great.

The Knicks roster is a little bit wack. They have 7 guards and 5 centers.

Not sure if it's that they like this design or that they feel they can tweak the team over this season and the next two.

Same thing about trades, status of Precious and Payne, Sims, Mitch.
At least the Knicks have Aller, who is one of the best regarding strategic planning around the cap and how it impacts moves.

However, we don't know if Aller got overruled in the Rosas/WWW desire to get KAT and now the Knicks are basically completely f*cked in terms of making moves. Or, maybe they aren't, they are where they collectively decided to be according to the FO, and they have a road map to improving the team around the periphery.

The sad truth is that the Knicks probably built the 5th best team for the next 5 years and will always lose out in the playoffs to the one of the first 4 best teams.

Kind of like the 90s Knicks.

[LFGK]

The way people complaining about minutes our guys are playing 43-44 and everyone in the league is at 30, top 4 guys are all within a few seconds of each other. Brunson and KAT are 23 and 31 respectively. Durant's old a*s is top 15, grandfather LeBron is nearly at 35 a game. The sky isn't falling, Thibs is a good coach

And where are the Lakers and Suns in the standing? 5th and 8th.

Look at the top 2 teams in the L: Thunder and Cavs, COMBINED have only 1 player in L's TOP 50 in mpg (SGA at #32 with 34.4mpg), and only 4 more players in top 100 (J-Will #56, DMitch #80, Garland #92, Mobley #96). DMitch leads Cavs with 31.4MPG !

There's a reason they're elite 4th q performers, and there's a reason why we looked fresh vs Kings after 3 days off.

Other than fatigue he also doesn't take out starters when games are well decided, why was KAT still on the floor with 3 mins in last game when Kings already pulled their starters out? The same KAT who hurt his hand vs Bulls STILL PLAYING WHEN THE GAME WAS OVER IN THE LAST MINS, causing him to miss few games, and causing him to take time (around 2 weeks) to get back his All Star form, and he's likely to play the rest of the season with bone chip in his right thumb because of that.

These are minor-medium injuries that are gonna affect the team months from now.

Wait until the REAL injuries come when our key players are not supposed to be on the floor, but they are.

---

And how's Thibs good again?? He's far removed from his defense years in Chicago. Teams have no problems scoring on us (46.8 FG% for 18th in the L, and 37.7 3P% for 3rd worst in the L). He's never been an offense coach, so how is good again??

Paul Westhead good? Lakers replaced him with no experience Pat Riley.

Doug Collins good? Bulls replaced him with no experience Phil Jackson.

Mark Jackson good? Warriors replaced him with no experience Steve Kerr.

You Thibs defenders are conservative thinking, afraid to take leaps necessary to be champions, and will stick to just "good".

Good is the enemy of great CHAMPIONS!

It is the typical NY sports fan mentality to be content with mediocrity. Thibs doesn't have to coach championship level basketball to satisfy his fanbase, all he needs to do is win 47-50 games a season and he is above criticism.

the knicks aren't mediocre, if randle and mitch are playing in that game 7 last season they probably are in the ECF. The hate this guy gets is unreal

[DOT]

And where are the Lakers and Suns in the standing? 5th and 8th.

Look at the top 2 teams in the L: Thunder and Cavs, COMBINED have only 1 player in L's TOP 50 in mpg (SGA at #32 with 34.4mpg), and only 4 more players in top 100 (J-Will #56, DMitch #80, Garland #92, Mobley #96). DMitch leads Cavs with 31.4MPG !

There's a reason they're elite 4th q performers, and there's a reason why we looked fresh vs Kings after 3 days off.

Other than fatigue he also doesn't take out starters when games are well decided, why was KAT still on the floor with 3 mins in last game when Kings already pulled their starters out? The same KAT who hurt his hand vs Bulls STILL PLAYING WHEN THE GAME WAS OVER IN THE LAST MINS, causing him to miss few games, and causing him to take time (around 2 weeks) to get back his All Star form, and he's likely to play the rest of the season with bone chip in his right thumb because of that.

These are minor-medium injuries that are gonna affect the team months from now.

Wait until the REAL injuries come when our key players are not supposed to be on the floor, but they are.

---

And how's Thibs good again?? He's far removed from his defense years in Chicago. Teams have no problems scoring on us (46.8 FG% for 18th in the L, and 37.7 3P% for 3rd worst in the L). He's never been an offense coach, so how is good again??

Paul Westhead good? Lakers replaced him with no experience Pat Riley.

Doug Collins good? Bulls replaced him with no experience Phil Jackson.

Mark Jackson good? Warriors replaced him with no experience Steve Kerr.

You Thibs defenders are conservative thinking, afraid to take leaps necessary to be champions, and will stick to just "good".

Good is the enemy of great CHAMPIONS!

It is the typical NY sports fan mentality to be content with mediocrity. Thibs doesn't have to coach championship level basketball to satisfy his fanbase, all he needs to do is win 47-50 games a season and he is above criticism.

the knicks aren't mediocre, if randle and mitch are playing in that game 7 last season they probably are in the ECF. The hate this guy gets is unreal

"If."

[LFGK]

It is the typical NY sports fan mentality to be content with mediocrity. Thibs doesn't have to coach championship level basketball to satisfy his fanbase, all he needs to do is win 47-50 games a season and he is above criticism.

the knicks aren't mediocre, if randle and mitch are playing in that game 7 last season they probably are in the ECF. The hate this guy gets is unreal

"If."

those injuries weren't on Thibs though.

[DOT]

the knicks aren't mediocre, if randle and mitch are playing in that game 7 last season they probably are in the ECF. The hate this guy gets is unreal

"If."

those injuries weren't on Thibs though.

I'm not talking about injuries

I'm saying you're using a hypothetical scenario to explain your undying fanaticism of someone who has never been able to translate regular season success into postseason success

You guys are in here after every win talking like it proves how great of a coach Thibs is just like Randle stans after every good regular season game he had, despite the fact that we all know they're good in the regular season, it's just about the playoffs

We have a championship caliber starting 5. Anything less than a Conference finals would be a disappointment, I don't care if he goes 82-0 in the regular season.

[MrDollarBills]

Other teams do have better depth but that's no excuse for Thibs not being able to play a 9 man rotation with guys like Precious, Deuce, Shamet, and Payne. Yeah, they are undersized but they all compete on both ends. The team won't collapse if these guys get more minutes. Get the starters to the 4th quarter with fresh legs and it's a guaranteed W more times than not.

It's also not excuse for putting KAT back in a game during garbage time. That was completely nonsensical and coaching malpractice.

[MrDollarBills]

"If."

those injuries weren't on Thibs though.

I'm not talking about injuries

I'm saying you're using a hypothetical scenario to explain your undying fanaticism of someone who has never been able to translate regular season success into postseason success

You guys are in here after every win talking like it proves how great of a coach Thibs is just like Randle stans after every good regular season game he had, despite the fact that we all know they're good in the regular season, it's just about the playoffs

We have a championship caliber starting 5. Anything less than a Conference finals would be a disappointment, I don't care if he goes 82-0 in the regular season.

Tom treats the regular season like the playoffs and then people are shocked when the team sputters out in the 2nd round. It's happened twice in two years now.

[knicks94]

And where are the Lakers and Suns in the standing? 5th and 8th.

Look at the top 2 teams in the L: Thunder and Cavs, COMBINED have only 1 player in L's TOP 50 in mpg (SGA at #32 with 34.4mpg), and only 4 more players in top 100 (J-Will #56, DMitch #80, Garland #92, Mobley #96). DMitch leads Cavs with 31.4MPG !

There's a reason they're elite 4th q performers, and there's a reason why we looked fresh vs Kings after 3 days off.

Other than fatigue he also doesn't take out starters when games are well decided, why was KAT still on the floor with 3 mins in last game when Kings already pulled their starters out? The same KAT who hurt his hand vs Bulls STILL PLAYING WHEN THE GAME WAS OVER IN THE LAST MINS, causing him to miss few games, and causing him to take time (around 2 weeks) to get back his All Star form, and he's likely to play the rest of the season with bone chip in his right thumb because of that.

These are minor-medium injuries that are gonna affect the team months from now.

Wait until the REAL injuries come when our key players are not supposed to be on the floor, but they are.

---

And how's Thibs good again?? He's far removed from his defense years in Chicago. Teams have no problems scoring on us (46.8 FG% for 18th in the L, and 37.7 3P% for 3rd worst in the L). He's never been an offense coach, so how is good again??

Paul Westhead good? Lakers replaced him with no experience Pat Riley.

Doug Collins good? Bulls replaced him with no experience Phil Jackson.

Mark Jackson good? Warriors replaced him with no experience Steve Kerr.

You Thibs defenders are conservative thinking, afraid to take leaps necessary to be champions, and will stick to just "good".

Good is the enemy of great CHAMPIONS!

It is the typical NY sports fan mentality to be content with mediocrity. Thibs doesn't have to coach championship level basketball to satisfy his fanbase, all he needs to do is win 47-50 games a season and he is above criticism.

the knicks aren't mediocre, if randle and mitch are playing in that game 7 last season they probably are in the ECF. The hate this guy gets is unreal

When I say mediocre what I mean is "not bad enough to miss the playoffs, and not good enough to win a championship"

I do not hate Thibs at all.That is the problem with most Thibs defenders, they translate any form of criticism or discontentment from someone as hate.

My problem with Thibs is that I do not believe that his style of coaching wins titles nor is he the best fit for the roster that he has.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

"If."

those injuries weren't on Thibs though.

I'm not talking about injuries

I'm saying you're using a hypothetical scenario to explain your undying fanaticism of someone who has never been able to translate regular season success into postseason success

You guys are in here after every win talking like it proves how great of a coach Thibs is just like Randle stans after every good regular season game he had, despite the fact that we all know they're good in the regular season, it's just about the playoffs

We have a championship caliber starting 5. Anything less than a Conference finals would be a disappointment, I don't care if he goes 82-0 in the regular season.

They're weird, no way to spin it, all the data says he's a good regular season coach and a mid-playoff coach. He is basically the ying to Mike D'Antoni's yang, their winning percentages are

Reg. season

Mike - .560%
Tom - .579%


Playoffs
Mike - .491%
Tom - .447%


Like Brad Stevens had a similar winning percentage to Tom, a better playoff winning percentage and still realized that he wasn't good enough to ultimately win and needed to move up to the front office. Here's some names of guys with a higher playoff winning percentage - Scott Brooks, Rick Adelman, Alvin Gentry, Doc, SVG (master of panic), Flip Saunders, Mark Jackson.......the list goes on and on. Not exactly a murderers row of all-time great coaches.

People here talk like we'd be getting rid of Red Auerbach or Pop.

[GettinitDone]

"If."

those injuries weren't on Thibs though.

I'm not talking about injuries

I'm saying you're using a hypothetical scenario to explain your undying fanaticism of someone who has never been able to translate regular season success into postseason success

You guys are in here after every win talking like it proves how great of a coach Thibs is just like Randle stans after every good regular season game he had, despite the fact that we all know they're good in the regular season, it's just about the playoffs

We have a championship caliber starting 5. Anything less than a Conference finals would be a disappointment, I don't care if he goes 82-0 in the regular season.

Also remember Thibs was on the verge of being fired before he put Divo and IHart in SL, and before we made the OG trade.

The 2 guys he wouldn't have used rotting on the bench saved him.

Also buried Burks with DNPs for a 1+ month then when players dropped like flies he was forced to play him and immediately produced. The same Burks he was playing 40mpg/ couldn't take off the floor years ago.

I doubt Deuce really needed years of DNPs to become the good role player he is today. Deuce had been Deuce all this time, the difference is he gets minutes today.

Ball don't lie, Huk can block shots, CAN PASS to cutters or to outside shooters in high post/ even AS HE DRIVES TO THE RIM, isn't afraid to take shots and actually CAN MAKE SHOTS, he's far away better than Sims yet Sims stays ahead in rotation. I mean sure, if you wanna base on "experience" (tho you can hardly tell if today's Sims has improved at all from rookie Sims), you want Sims to be ahead in rotation, but to actually give 0 mins to Huk, how can ANY PLAYER (even prime MJ or prime LeBron) NOT SUCK with DNPs? The same Sims he wouldn't play when Precious is healthy, but when KAT is out he plays Sims STRAIGHT FROM MONTHS LONG DNPs to STARTING. This man has lost it. He's just not making substitutions because the players can't perform, but because HE IS LAZY DOING IT.

Our bench doesn't suck, they just don't get opportunities. I have no doubt actual good coaches like Daignault, Atkinson, Spo (just found a "good" bench player in Kel'el Ware, started him a few games ago, and this kid may now save the Heat franchise) would find minutes for Huk, Kolek (who can also play), and even Pac. Give them minutes first, and determine whether they can or can't play. How can anyone make determination a player sucks FROM DNPs?? Only **** like Thibs and his BLIND defenders do that !!

When it comes to BASIC HUMAN FATIGUE CONCEPT, you play a player 40 mins every 2 days, weeks/ months later he's not gonna run around any fresher than another player who plays 30-32 mins every 2 days.

I just can't with Thibs anymore... he's surely as smart as people around the L regard him to be, so it's IMPOSSIBLE for him not to understand basic human fatigue concept, the failure to keep our key players fresh in 4th qs of games, and when it matters at the end of season just comes to LAZINESS. Similar to a good chef who can cook and understands the concept of hygiene but is just TOO LAZY/ CAN'T BE BOTHERED to clean his own station, it's left uncleaned for days/ weeks/ months until hygiene starts affecting the quality of the very food he serves. Thibs would rather spend all those secs thinking about/ doing subs yelling on the sidelines.

I have no doubt had we had a coach who made use of our bench we would've won those games we should've when it was clear we didn't have legs in the 4th (the 2 Bulls games, the road Jazz game, Magic game without Paolo/Wagner, even the road Thunder game), and we could be ahead of the Celtics today, maybe only 1-2 GB of the Cavs instead of currently 6.5 GB.

[KnixinSix]

Other teams do have better depth but that's no excuse for Thibs not being able to play a 9 man rotation with guys like Precious, Deuce, Shamet, and Payne. Yeah, they are undersized but they all compete on both ends. The team won't collapse if these guys get more minutes. Get the starters to the 4th quarter with fresh legs and it's a guaranteed W more times than not.

It's also not excuse for putting KAT back in a game during garbage time. That was completely nonsensical and coaching malpractice.

That was a perfect indicator of his truly flawed mentality on pushing players to play heavy minutes.

[Guano]

Idk ball

Some people(meLo) really do want the worst for us.

You making it seem like I’m saying to trade hart for a scrub (and I was the first one saying for us to trade for hart when he was on the pelicans!!)

But Camara is legit the next Herb Jones. He’s already a top 10 defender in the league and his offense is coming along nicely. Portland obviously won’t trade him since he’s one of best defensive players in the league. I wanted us to buy low on him over the summer.

Look what he did against the best team in the west just now

Read on Twitter

In a game jHart played amazing youre posting some random blazers statline. I'd pray for you but I already know the gods are fed up with you, too.

[thebuzzardman]

Usually I start the day hoping the Knicks win, but by the time I'm done reading the posts here, I hope they lose.

[3toheadmelo]

Some people(meLo) really do want the worst for us.

You making it seem like I’m saying to trade hart for a scrub (and I was the first one saying for us to trade for hart when he was on the pelicans!!)

But Camara is legit the next Herb Jones. He’s already a top 10 defender in the league and his offense is coming along nicely. Portland obviously won’t trade him since he’s one of best defensive players in the league. I wanted us to buy low on him over the summer.

Look what he did against the best team in the west just now

Read on Twitter

In a game jHart played amazing youre posting some random blazers statline. I'd pray for you but I already know the gods are fed up with you, too.

Mf im defending myself here

I like hart a lot but i dont trust him as a starter against contenders. Putting up numbers against the mid kings doesn’t move me

He needs to be back in his bench role imo.

[Guano]

You making it seem like I’m saying to trade hart for a scrub (and I was the first one saying for us to trade for hart when he was on the pelicans!!)

But Camara is legit the next Herb Jones. He’s already a top 10 defender in the league and his offense is coming along nicely. Portland obviously won’t trade him since he’s one of best defensive players in the league. I wanted us to buy low on him over the summer.

Look what he did against the best team in the west just now

Read on Twitter

In a game jHart played amazing youre posting some random blazers statline. I'd pray for you but I already know the gods are fed up with you, too.

Mf im defending myself here

I like hart a lot but i dont trust him as a starter against contenders. Putting up numbers against the mid kings doesn’t move me

He needs to be back in his bench role imo.

This isn't defending its incriminating.

I know we're all miserable here. And we have to nitpick every lil thing. But at some point we should maybe try to enjoy what we have instead of lusting over some prospect on the blazers. Or not. Be a heathen. I know you can't help it.

[NYKinMIA]

I heart all the Hart love.

bring on the teddy bears.

[3toheadmelo]

In a game jHart played amazing youre posting some random blazers statline. I'd pray for you but I already know the gods are fed up with you, too.

Mf im defending myself here

I like hart a lot but i dont trust him as a starter against contenders. Putting up numbers against the mid kings doesn’t move me

He needs to be back in his bench role imo.

This isn't defending its incriminating.

I know we're all miserable here. And we have to nitpick every lil thing. But at some point we should maybe try to enjoy what we have instead of lusting over some prospect on the blazers. Or not. Be a heathen. I know you can't help it.

We’re 0-4 against the top 4 teams in both conferences. It’s hard for me to get excited beating up on bad teams knowing this team isn’t a contender. I have higher standards mf. Be better guan0!!!

[Guano]

Mf im defending myself here

I like hart a lot but i dont trust him as a starter against contenders. Putting up numbers against the mid kings doesn’t move me

He needs to be back in his bench role imo.

This isn't defending its incriminating.

I know we're all miserable here. And we have to nitpick every lil thing. But at some point we should maybe try to enjoy what we have instead of lusting over some prospect on the blazers. Or not. Be a heathen. I know you can't help it.

We’re 0-4 against the top 4 teams in both conferences. It’s hard for me to get excited beating up on bad teams knowing this team isn’t a contender. I have higher standards mf. Be better guan0!!!

No you don't.

Spoiler:

[LFGK]

"If."

those injuries weren't on Thibs though.

I'm not talking about injuries

I'm saying you're using a hypothetical scenario to explain your undying fanaticism of someone who has never been able to translate regular season success into postseason success

You guys are in here after every win talking like it proves how great of a coach Thibs is just like Randle stans after every good regular season game he had, despite the fact that we all know they're good in the regular season, it's just about the playoffs

We have a championship caliber starting 5. Anything less than a Conference finals would be a disappointment, I don't care if he goes 82-0 in the regular season.

champ caliber 5 but what about the bench?