2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas

[HopelessKnick]

Sexton and Olynyk seem perfect for what we need yeah. Just the whole Ainge thing wed have to deal with.

What kind of trade would you see us making for them? Fournier, McBride, and a few picks? Theyd make us better but we wouldnt have much to trade after that.

Sexton brings a big downside.....he is 6'1 and you really wouldn't want to play him alongside Brunson for any minutes at all. At the same time he is too good to be a 15 minute backup. You have to play him at least 25minutes....would you really want 10 minutes of Brunson and Sexton sharing the backcourt? I think it would be a disaster defensively.

Brunson-Murray is much more playable on the defensive end. You give Murray all the backup PG minutes where he is free to create, you play him 15 minutes alongside Brunson as well. He got his contract extension, he is a good passer and used to be a good defender (all-defense votes). To me, if I had to choose between those two I would prefer Murray by a lot. Even if Brunson-Murray doesn't work out perfectly....in 1 or 2 years you can trade Murray for better fitting pieces....he is like an investment...he won't be losing any value 2-3 years from now...

This is the big positive here with going Murray over Sexton. And you can potentially expand trade to include Capela too. Murray adds a size dynamic, rebound dynamic and potential defensive dynamic that the team would greatly benefit from in Thibs system.

Yeah I would trust Thibs to bring out the best defensive version of Murray. I am also concerned with Thibs running Brunson into the ground....I think the FO needs to give Thibs another reliable, proven playmaker....even if it is to just save Brunson from playing too many minutes.

Boston is rolling with White (6'4)-Holiday (6'4)
Milwaukee is going with Lillard (6'2)-Beasley (6'4)
Philly is going with Maxey (6'2)- Oubre (6'6)
Denver is going with Murray (6'4)- KCP (6'5)

I think we could probably get by with Brunson and Murray sizewise.

[KnixinSix]

Sexton brings a big downside.....he is 6'1 and you really wouldn't want to play him alongside Brunson for any minutes at all. At the same time he is too good to be a 15 minute backup. You have to play him at least 25minutes....would you really want 10 minutes of Brunson and Sexton sharing the backcourt? I think it would be a disaster defensively.

Brunson-Murray is much more playable on the defensive end. You give Murray all the backup PG minutes where he is free to create, you play him 15 minutes alongside Brunson as well. He got his contract extension, he is a good passer and used to be a good defender (all-defense votes). To me, if I had to choose between those two I would prefer Murray by a lot. Even if Brunson-Murray doesn't work out perfectly....in 1 or 2 years you can trade Murray for better fitting pieces....he is like an investment...he won't be losing any value 2-3 years from now...

Getting Murray is okay if hes not too expensive, for the reasons you gave.

I just have a bad feeling about him. Seems overrated and a little nutty upstairs. All his little cryptic Tweets and Instagram posts are annoying too. Its not a given that he will still have good value if he fails here. His contract isnt awful but hes not cheap either. Good teams wouldn’t give up much for him if he cant fit into a team concept or show he can help win games. They definitely wouldn’t trade their star for him unless he shows that.

Murray would have to be okay with a reduced role on offense and playing mainly with the bench here. Cant help but feel hes going to bring back many of the same issues RJ brought.

Take a look here...mainly covering his defense, passing and midrange:

Watch on YouTube

I think he may be worth a gamble if the price is right. I wouldn't mind it...6'5 and huge wingspan....if motivated seems to have elite defensive ability. I think we need some sort of insurance even for a minor Brunson injury. That's probably the biggest need right now.

Good video bro...thanks for sharing.

The ability is absolutely there. Absolutely there. We would just need what he looked like in the Pops system vs how he has been used under Atlanta's system. It is absolutely possible under a better fitting system he looks more like the SA version than he does now in Atl.

[HopelessKnick]

Sexton brings a big downside.....he is 6'1 and you really wouldn't want to play him alongside Brunson for any minutes at all. At the same time he is too good to be a 15 minute backup. You have to play him at least 25minutes....would you really want 10 minutes of Brunson and Sexton sharing the backcourt? I think it would be a disaster defensively.

Brunson-Murray is much more playable on the defensive end. You give Murray all the backup PG minutes where he is free to create, you play him 15 minutes alongside Brunson as well. He got his contract extension, he is a good passer and used to be a good defender (all-defense votes). To me, if I had to choose between those two I would prefer Murray by a lot. Even if Brunson-Murray doesn't work out perfectly....in 1 or 2 years you can trade Murray for better fitting pieces....he is like an investment...he won't be losing any value 2-3 years from now...

Getting Murray is okay if hes not too expensive, for the reasons you gave.

I just have a bad feeling about him. Seems overrated and a little nutty upstairs. All his little cryptic Tweets and Instagram posts are annoying too. Its not a given that he will still have good value if he fails here. His contract isnt awful but hes not cheap either. Good teams wouldn’t give up much for him if he cant fit into a team concept or show he can help win games. They definitely wouldn’t trade their star for him unless he shows that.

Murray would have to be okay with a reduced role on offense and playing mainly with the bench here. Cant help but feel hes going to bring back many of the same issues RJ brought.

Rough minutes distribution:

Hartenstein (24), Capela(24)

Randle (34), OG (14)

OG(20), Hart (24), DDV (4)

Murray (23), DDV (22), Hart (3)

Brunson (34), Murray (10), McBride (4)

Murray doesn't need that much a reduced role if you break out the approximate minute distribution across an 8 or 9 man rotation

Yeah, our team would remain pretty balanced overall. We'd have to ball-handlers and shot creators, great midrange shooting between Brunson and Murray, great defense and great size. Actually I think above rotation could be that darkhorse team...like Atlanta 2021 or Miami last year. First and second unit look really strong and the team wouldn't be lacking anything really. If they can get such a trade done around Fournier + Grimes + Mitch + 2 FRPs I would consider it. They would be really fun to watch anyways...even if they go out in a close series...

[JBreezeNY]

What about Franz Wagner?

[HopelessKnick]

What about Franz Wagner?

Untouchable. I really don't think teams like Orlando, OKC or Minny....who have finally something good going would really tinker with any major pieces....These are teams that literally have been bad for 10 years or so...sometimes more even...I think the furthest on their minds is trading away one of their major guys...

[KnixinSix]

Getting Murray is okay if hes not too expensive, for the reasons you gave.

I just have a bad feeling about him. Seems overrated and a little nutty upstairs. All his little cryptic Tweets and Instagram posts are annoying too. Its not a given that he will still have good value if he fails here. His contract isnt awful but hes not cheap either. Good teams wouldn’t give up much for him if he cant fit into a team concept or show he can help win games. They definitely wouldn’t trade their star for him unless he shows that.

Murray would have to be okay with a reduced role on offense and playing mainly with the bench here. Cant help but feel hes going to bring back many of the same issues RJ brought.

Rough minutes distribution:

Hartenstein (24), Capela(24)

Randle (34), OG (14)

OG(20), Hart (24), DDV (4)

Murray (23), DDV (22), Hart (3)

Brunson (34), Murray (10), McBride (4)

Murray doesn't need that much a reduced role if you break out the approximate minute distribution across an 8 or 9 man rotation

Yeah, our team would remain pretty balanced overall. We'd have to ball-handlers and shot creators, great midrange shooting between Brunson and Murray, great defense and great size. Actually I think above rotation could be that darkhorse team...like Atlanta 2021 or Miami last year. First and second unit look really strong and the team wouldn't be lacking anything really. If they can get such a trade done around Fournier + Grimes + Mitch + 2 FRPs I would consider it. They would be really fun to watch anyways...even if they go out in a close series...

I think Atlanta wants cap relief with the looming penalty capped CBA and don't love their current roster construction.

Grimes (2.4M), Fournier (18M), Robinson (15M), Ryan Aradiciano (2.5M), and 3FRPs for Clint Capela (20.6M) and Murray (18.2M)

Atlanta gets series salary cap relief, better contracts and defenders in Mitchell Robinson and Grimes, and 3FRPs. We get a Center to pair with Hartenstein that can score better than Robinson could. And that dynamic scorer and defender combo guard that would play next to Brunson.

I adjusted minutes a bit below to give a roug idea of what it could look like....

Rotation (Minutes):

C I-Hart (24), Capela (24)
PF Randle (34), OG (10), Precious (4)
SF OG (23), Hart(20), Precious (5)
SG Murray (18), DDV (20), Hart (10)
PG Brunson (34), Murray (12), DDV (2)

Murray gets decent burn around 12 minutes to run the point with OG, Capela and DDV or Hart. He could lead dog that.

He then gets significant time as the 2 with Brunson where Randle and Brunson would have a third real strong scorer out there.

[RHODEY]

Sexton brings a big downside.....he is 6'1 and you really wouldn't want to play him alongside Brunson for any minutes at all. At the same time he is too good to be a 15 minute backup. You have to play him at least 25minutes....would you really want 10 minutes of Brunson and Sexton sharing the backcourt? I think it would be a disaster defensively.

Brunson-Murray is much more playable on the defensive end. You give Murray all the backup PG minutes where he is free to create, you play him 15 minutes alongside Brunson as well. He got his contract extension, he is a good passer and used to be a good defender (all-defense votes). To me, if I had to choose between those two I would prefer Murray by a lot. Even if Brunson-Murray doesn't work out perfectly....in 1 or 2 years you can trade Murray for better fitting pieces....he is like an investment...he won't be losing any value 2-3 years from now...

Getting Murray is okay if hes not too expensive, for the reasons you gave.

I just have a bad feeling about him. Seems overrated and a little nutty upstairs. All his cryptic Tweets and Instagram posts are annoying too. Its not a given that he will still have good value if he fails here. His contract isnt awful but hes not cheap either. Good teams wouldn’t give up much for him if he cant fit into a team concept or show he can help win games. They definitely wouldn’t trade their star for him unless he shows that.

Murray would have to be okay with a reduced role on offense and playing mainly with the bench here. Cant help but feel hes going to bring back many of the same issues RJ brought.

My only concerns with him are the attitude problem rumors. Knickfans frown down on wannabe tough guys. I am a bit hesitant on Jordan Clarkson for the same reason.

[stuporman]

I wouldn't mind the Knicks adding some additional front court depth in the form of a long defensive 3&D guy who can cover both 3s and 4s. We all know the back up 4-5 and PG need but another wing to throw out there if OG gets into foul trouble would be nice, Hart isn't quite ideal for that role.

[HopelessKnick]

Rough minutes distribution:

Hartenstein (24), Capela(24)

Randle (34), OG (14)

OG(20), Hart (24), DDV (4)

Murray (23), DDV (22), Hart (3)

Brunson (34), Murray (10), McBride (4)

Murray doesn't need that much a reduced role if you break out the approximate minute distribution across an 8 or 9 man rotation

Yeah, our team would remain pretty balanced overall. We'd have to ball-handlers and shot creators, great midrange shooting between Brunson and Murray, great defense and great size. Actually I think above rotation could be that darkhorse team...like Atlanta 2021 or Miami last year. First and second unit look really strong and the team wouldn't be lacking anything really. If they can get such a trade done around Fournier + Grimes + Mitch + 2 FRPs I would consider it. They would be really fun to watch anyways...even if they go out in a close series...

I think Atlanta wants cap relief with the looming penalty capped CBA and don't love their current roster construction.

Grimes (2.4M), Fournier (18M), Robinson (15M), Ryan Aradiciano (2.5M), and 3FRPs for Clint Capela (20.6M) and Murray (18.2M)

Atlanta gets series salary cap relief, better contracts and defenders in Mitchell Robinson and Grimes, and 3FRPs. We get a Center to pair with Hartenstein that can score better than Robinson could. And that dynamic scorer and defender combo guard that would play next to Brunson.

Rotation (Minutes):

C I-Hart (24), Capela (24)
PF Randle (34), OG (10), Precious (4)
SF OG (23), Hart(20), Precious (5)
SG Murray (18), DDV (20), Hart (10)
PG Brunson (34), Murray (12), DDV (2

In contrast to the Nets I could see Atlanta entertaining a talent for picks type trade because they own their own FRP this year and could use another high draft pick, either for a draft day trade or to add more talent. For them a quick tank makes some sense....however they could also be looking at making the playing and wanting to add talent...it is really difficult to say...teams generally seem to want to make the playin over getting a high draft pick...but I think if the offer is strong enough they would likely consider it.

[BowlRips]

I wouldn't mind the Knicks adding some additional front court depth in the form of a long defensive 3&D guy who can cover both 3s and 4s. We all know the back up 4-5 and PG need but another wing to throw out there if OG gets into foul trouble would be nice, Hart isn't quite ideal for that role.

Pretty sure the Knicks solved for that need last week...

[HopelessKnick]

Sexton brings a big downside.....he is 6'1 and you really wouldn't want to play him alongside Brunson for any minutes at all. At the same time he is too good to be a 15 minute backup. You have to play him at least 25minutes....would you really want 10 minutes of Brunson and Sexton sharing the backcourt? I think it would be a disaster defensively.

Brunson-Murray is much more playable on the defensive end. You give Murray all the backup PG minutes where he is free to create, you play him 15 minutes alongside Brunson as well. He got his contract extension, he is a good passer and used to be a good defender (all-defense votes). To me, if I had to choose between those two I would prefer Murray by a lot. Even if Brunson-Murray doesn't work out perfectly....in 1 or 2 years you can trade Murray for better fitting pieces....he is like an investment...he won't be losing any value 2-3 years from now...

Getting Murray is okay if hes not too expensive, for the reasons you gave.

I just have a bad feeling about him. Seems overrated and a little nutty upstairs. All his cryptic Tweets and Instagram posts are annoying too. Its not a given that he will still have good value if he fails here. His contract isnt awful but hes not cheap either. Good teams wouldn’t give up much for him if he cant fit into a team concept or show he can help win games. They definitely wouldn’t trade their star for him unless he shows that.

Murray would have to be okay with a reduced role on offense and playing mainly with the bench here. Cant help but feel hes going to bring back many of the same issues RJ brought.

My only concerns with him are the attitude problem rumors. Knickfans frown down on wannabe tough guys. I am a bit hesitant on Jordan Clarkson for the same reason.

Jordan Clarkson I would rather stay away from really....31 years old, bad efficiency, mediocre playmaking....

[cgf]

I hate how much worse I feel about adding Murray the more I dig.

Last season the Hawks defense struggled as much when Murray played but Trae sat, as it did when Murray sat & Trae was on the court, and was even worse when they were on the court together

Murray on/Trae on - 117.46 DefRtg (1768 minutes)
Murray off/Trae on - 116.94 DefRtg (1152 minutes)
Murray on/Trae off - 116.89 DefRtg (1039 minutes)
Murray off/Trae off - 111.36 DefRtg (348 minutes)

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612737&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=1627749,1629027

And this had some ominous blurbs about his time in San Antonio:

Murray is not the best one-on-one defender. Among 207 players who’ve defended at least 250 isolations over the last three seasons, he ranks just 168th in points per chance allowed (1.02), according to Second Spectrum tracking.

He’ll bite on pump fakes and sometimes get caught standing up…Murray can also be a little too thirsty for steals, and his gambles can put his team’s defense at a disadvantage…

https://www.nba.com/news/film-study-dejounte-murray-atlanta-hawks

[JBreezeNY]

What about Franz Wagner?

Untouchable. I really don't think teams like Orlando, OKC or Minny....who have finally something good going would really tinker with any major pieces....These are teams that literally have been bad for 10 years or so...sometimes more even...I think the furthest on their minds is trading away one of their major guys...

We might be fu*ked then.

All the players I can think of that pushes us into serious contention are off limits.

Mikal Bridges, Derrick White, Lauri Markkanen & now Franz. We need either a 2 that can play defense & score or a stretch 4 who also plays defense.

[HopelessKnick]

I hate how much worse I feel about adding Murray the more I dig.

Last season the Hawks defense struggled as much when Murray played but Trae sat, as it did when Murray sat & Trae was on the court, and was even worse when they were on the court together

Murray on/Trae on - 117.46 DefRtg (1768 minutes)
Murray off/Trae on - 116.94 DefRtg (1152 minutes)
Murray on/Trae off - 116.89 DefRtg (1039 minutes)
Murray off/Trae off - 111.36 DefRtg (348 minutes)

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612737&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=1627749,1629027

And this had some ominous blurbs:

Murray is not the best one-on-one defender. Among 207 players who’ve defended at least 250 isolations over the last three seasons, he ranks just 168th in points per chance allowed (1.02), according to Second Spectrum tracking.

He’ll bite on pump fakes and sometimes get caught standing up…Murray can also be a little too thirsty for steals, and his gambles can put his team’s defense at a disadvantage…

https://www.nba.com/news/film-study-dejounte-murray-atlanta-hawks

Just out of interest.....what was it like in San Antonio? Do you have any numbers there? Could be position related, could be the system...would really like to know...I mean he got all-nba-defense votes two years ago....he surely can't be that bad, can he?

[HopelessKnick]

What about Franz Wagner?

Untouchable. I really don't think teams like Orlando, OKC or Minny....who have finally something good going would really tinker with any major pieces....These are teams that literally have been bad for 10 years or so...sometimes more even...I think the furthest on their minds is trading away one of their major guys...

We might be fu*ked then.

All the players I can think of that pushes us into serious contention are off limits.

Mikal Bridges, Derrick White, Lauri Markkanen & now Franz. We need either a 2 that can play defense & score or a stretch 4 who also plays defense.

Markannen is said to be available but the price would be steep.....5 FRPs like....

[stuporman]

I wouldn't mind the Knicks adding some additional front court depth in the form of a long defensive 3&D guy who can cover both 3s and 4s. We all know the back up 4-5 and PG need but another wing to throw out there if OG gets into foul trouble would be nice, Hart isn't quite ideal for that role.

Pretty sure the Knicks solved for that need last week...

Pretty sure you didn't read my post

[JBreezeNY]

I hate how much worse I feel about adding Murray the more I dig.

Last season the Hawks defense struggled as much when Murray played but Trae sat, as it did when Murray sat & Trae was on the court, and was even worse when they were on the court together

Murray on/Trae on - 117.46 DefRtg (1768 minutes)
Murray off/Trae on - 116.94 DefRtg (1152 minutes)
Murray on/Trae off - 116.89 DefRtg (1039 minutes)
Murray off/Trae off - 111.36 DefRtg (348 minutes)

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612737&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=1627749,1629027

And this had some ominous blurbs:

Murray is not the best one-on-one defender. Among 207 players who’ve defended at least 250 isolations over the last three seasons, he ranks just 168th in points per chance allowed (1.02), according to Second Spectrum tracking.

He’ll bite on pump fakes and sometimes get caught standing up…Murray can also be a little too thirsty for steals, and his gambles can put his team’s defense at a disadvantage…

https://www.nba.com/news/film-study-dejounte-murray-atlanta-hawks

Bro Murray is not the guy. I saw your posts the other day and I wanted to And1 all of them. Just from an eye test he plays poor off ball defense, poor on ball defense, has a sh*tty ego & he’s an inefficient scorer. He is good at help defense hence his steals but he does gamble a bit.

I don’t understand this sudden spark for him here and it’s clear people don’t watch him game in and game out. I watch the hawks he’s talented but you will tear your hair out because he’s lazy.

The numbers back up everything I’m saying about him.

Same things I felt about Jalen Green.

Sometimes you just have gut feelings about players and I’m telling yall we need to stay far away from him.

He’s the type of player you get still hoping 3 years later he unlocks his potential. How many moody players have we gone through? No to Murray.

[cgf]

I hate how much worse I feel about adding Murray the more I dig.

Last season the Hawks defense struggled as much when Murray played but Trae sat, as it did when Murray sat & Trae was on the court, and was even worse when they were on the court together

Murray on/Trae on - 117.46 DefRtg (1768 minutes)
Murray off/Trae on - 116.94 DefRtg (1152 minutes)
Murray on/Trae off - 116.89 DefRtg (1039 minutes)
Murray off/Trae off - 111.36 DefRtg (348 minutes)

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612737&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=1627749,1629027

And this had some ominous blurbs:

Murray is not the best one-on-one defender. Among 207 players who’ve defended at least 250 isolations over the last three seasons, he ranks just 168th in points per chance allowed (1.02), according to Second Spectrum tracking.

He’ll bite on pump fakes and sometimes get caught standing up…Murray can also be a little too thirsty for steals, and his gambles can put his team’s defense at a disadvantage…

https://www.nba.com/news/film-study-dejounte-murray-atlanta-hawks

Just out of interest.....what was it like in San Antonio? Do you have any numbers there? Could be position related, could be the system...would really like to know...I mean he got all-nba-defense votes two years ago....he surely can't be that bad, can he?

That second article is about his time in San Antonio.

I doubt it's positional since he was playing the point when Trae was resting and the 2 when they share the court, and his #s were bad at both spots. But wouldn't we have that exact same problem? Brunson isn't as bad as Trae, but he has the same size restrictions that would force DJM to cover the bigger/better guard.

[JBreezeNY]

Untouchable. I really don't think teams like Orlando, OKC or Minny....who have finally something good going would really tinker with any major pieces....These are teams that literally have been bad for 10 years or so...sometimes more even...I think the furthest on their minds is trading away one of their major guys...

We might be fu*ked then.

All the players I can think of that pushes us into serious contention are off limits.

Mikal Bridges, Derrick White, Lauri Markkanen & now Franz. We need either a 2 that can play defense & score or a stretch 4 who also plays defense.

Markannen is said to be available but the price would be steep.....5 FRPs like....

And there lies the problem.

[cgf]

I hate how much worse I feel about adding Murray the more I dig.

Last season the Hawks defense struggled as much when Murray played but Trae sat, as it did when Murray sat & Trae was on the court, and was even worse when they were on the court together

Murray on/Trae on - 117.46 DefRtg (1768 minutes)
Murray off/Trae on - 116.94 DefRtg (1152 minutes)
Murray on/Trae off - 116.89 DefRtg (1039 minutes)
Murray off/Trae off - 111.36 DefRtg (348 minutes)

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612737&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=1627749,1629027

And this had some ominous blurbs:

Murray is not the best one-on-one defender. Among 207 players who’ve defended at least 250 isolations over the last three seasons, he ranks just 168th in points per chance allowed (1.02), according to Second Spectrum tracking.

He’ll bite on pump fakes and sometimes get caught standing up…Murray can also be a little too thirsty for steals, and his gambles can put his team’s defense at a disadvantage…

https://www.nba.com/news/film-study-dejounte-murray-atlanta-hawks

Bro Murray is not the guy. I saw your posts the other day and I wanted to And1 all of them. Just from an eye test he plays poor off ball defense, poor on ball defense, has a sh*tty ego & he’s an inefficient scorer. He is good at help defense hence his steals but he doesn’t gamble a bit.

I don’t understand this sudden spark for him here and it’s clear people don’t watch him game in and game out. I watch the hawks he’s talented but you will tear your hair out because he’s lazy.

The numbers back up everything I’m saying about him.

Same things I felt about Jalen Green.

Sometimes you just have gut feelings about players and I’m telling yall we need to stay far away from him.

He’s the type of player you get still hoping 3 years later he unlocks his potential. How many moody players have we gone through to just take players as they are and keep it moving? No to Murray.

Yeah, the theory of Dejounte Murray is super exciting. Defensive reputation, great length, excellent rebounding, quality playmaking, cheap contract for a former Allstar, and he's shooting 38% from 3 on real volume? On paper that's the guard version of OG.

But the more I dig the less the reality seems to match the theory