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Breaking: KAT to the Knicks

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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2101 » by mpharris36 » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:24 am

E-Balla wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:They got swept. They're not dangerous. You can't out Celtics the Celtics.

Taking advantage of KP's weak rebounding seems to be the best way to attack that squad. Strong rebounding, strong wing defenders, and a PG that can dominate seems to be the best plan of attack if you ask me.


Pacers being swept is a bit of a reach to prove a point. Pacers should have won game 1 in that series and haliburton hurt his hamstring and basically didn't play again in the series.

Also and we have strong rebounding, strong wing defenders, and and PG that can dominate...what am I missing here?

We do not have strong rebounding anymore. Here's Minny's rank in defensive rebounding with KAT at C for 7 seasons:
23rd
20th
24th
27th
19th (KAT played 35 games)
24th
27th

Josh Hart is great. He's not THAT great to cover for KAT's weak rebounding.


KAT's weak rebounding???? He is a career 10.8 rebounder per game. And the only reason its that low the last two years he was playing with gobert...otherwise it would be well over 11 which would put him as one of the best rebounders in the NBA.

If you want to talk about his rim protection or controlling the interior on defense that is one thing...but saying KAT's a weak rebounder is wildly inaccurate.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2102 » by G_K_F » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:25 am

Let's break this down.

Nobody cares that Randle was traded. He's not the reason people don't like the trade.

The Knicks lost iHart, their hustle rebounder and best passing big man and one of the core dog mentality guys on the team.

The Knicks also lost their best 3 point shooter in Donte Divicenzo. Not only is he their best shooter - he can shoot off the catch, something Bridges and Brunson aren't as comfortable doing. Donte could shoot the 3 any which way and had a quick release. He was lethal for us and we just gave the dude away like he was nothing. "Oh he wasn't going to get minutes". There's still plenty of minutes there. OG misses 50% of every season. Having Donte off the bench wasn't a good idea?

The bench is clearly weaker with the loss of DDV and there is no replacement for him at all. Shamet is a journeyman who sucks now, unless he regains his early Clippers form. I'm the biggest McBride fan - even before anyone wanted to draft him - but he's limited offensively. Cam Payne is a streaky clown who has become a journeyman. Precious is a solid depth piece but you can put the burden on him; he also has zero offensive skills. Jericho Sims has even worse offensive skills than Precious. Kolek is a real nice intangible guy but I'm iffy on Thibs actually giving him a real shot - plus having a small backcourt of Kolek and McBride would be abused defensively by bigger guards.

Now, onto Towns. The acquisition changes the entire chemistry of the team. It's not about Randle. It's about how they'll be playing. More of an outside-in team than a gritty inside-out team. You'll see a lot of settling for jumpers - especially from Towns, who is a finesse player. Towns also can't play drop coverage on defense, which is a Thibs staple. He gets cooked routinely. He's simply below average overall defensively. Nobody is scared of driving it in on Towns and nobody is definitely not scared of Towns defending a pick and roll. This is not even mentioning Towns softness on and off the court - particularly off the court with him whining about the fans being unfair to him, etc. People who think some soft ass dude is going to all of a sudden become a completely different person because he put on a Knicks jersey are delusional. You just acquired a dude who is the opposite of how we played on the court last year in terms of hustle, basketball IQ and chemistry. You destroyed all that for someone who doesn't even guarantee you a Conference Finals and you're locked into $50+ million a season for a non-superstar for a minimum of 3 years, probably 4 years.

You lost your best and most crafty 3 point shooter and got worse defensively but you gained a 3 point shooting big who can space the floor.

We emptied our entire clip on Mikal Bridges and Karl Anthony Towns.

We have a couple of middling 1sts and 10 2nd round picks to work with for the next 5 years. We're hardcapped in the 2nd apron after this move probably. No assets to acquire anyone worthwhile for the foreseeable future moving forward.

How does anyone look at this trade and think we are an NBA Finals contender? This is a typical "Knicks look formidable on paper" move that ends up a disaster.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2103 » by N Y K » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:27 am

E-Balla wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:I’m curious as to what some of you think Donte was going to do on a fully healthy Knicks team and where his value would be compared to now.

He wasn’t going to start. Mikal took his spot. He wouldn’t backup either Brunson or OG, that’s either Deuce or Hart doing that. His minutes would be around where it was earlier in the season when he was a reserve. That was around 15-20 min. So where would his value be if he played for a few months?

Leon traded him while the iron was hot and traded Donte while his value was at the highest it’ll ever be. Again, a shooter off the bench is a dime in a dozen. He may not be as good, but Shamet is a career 38% shooter. He can fill the role. Or find another cheap shooter on the market. What Leon did was peak asset management. Traded a player while he was at his peak value before letting that value wither away along with Randle, who was perceived to have little to no value around the league.

We have OG Anunoby and Karl-Anthony Towns starting with Thibs as head coach, why are we assuming good health? Donte was supposed to be a bench player last year too, he ended up 2nd in scoring and breaking franchise records for 3 point shooting. It's an 82 game season if you build a team expecting perfect health you're building wrong especially in the modern NBA with all these injuries. The Celtics won a ring without KP and didn't play a single healthy playoff squad.

The health situation has me the most nervous. These guys miss chunks of seasons regularly. I can see the vision with this team (contracts aside for time being) but that 4/5 fragility is scariest to me. Now add contacts to that.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2104 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:27 am

Guano wrote:
Buttah304 wrote:Image

Image

I really don’t know how people can’t see that KAT coming here is going to help Brunson out tremendously.

We’ve seen teams do this to Jalen during the regular season, but it really gets amplified in the playoffs over a 7 game series. Teams do not care if Mitch is slipping a screen or crapping their pants at the thought of a tear-drop floater by iHart.


No one is denying his offensive talent. He is definitely going to help the offense. Though he does choke in the playoffs. It happened last year in the wcf and against the grizzlies a few years back.

The glaring concern is on the defensive end.


Why is it glaring?

Randle doesn't care about defense and at least KAT locked up Joker in the playoffs so he does seem to be an upgrade on defense too.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2105 » by Knick4Real » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:29 am

DaGawd wrote:thread is a war zone… :lol:



More like a Whine Bar

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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2106 » by Jalen Bluntson » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:29 am

Knicks218 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
If OG gets hurt, we’re looking at SF/PF options. We’re not looking at another guard to cover that. If anything, that’s the depth we’re lacking and should be looking to cover now that C is taken care of.

We have Josh Hart, OG, and Mikal Bridges already why TF would we need MORE SF depth? Do y'all hear yourselves?


Because OG is our PF now not our SF and if OG gets hurt we are screwed.


Precious should be our PF now. Hart needs to stay on the bench unit and OG should stay at SF. KAT is the 5. Hart can step up for OG if he gets hurt. Just like him and Precious did last year when OG/Randle/Mitch were out. They were playing 44+ mpg! No need to move OG to PF at all.

We STILL don't have a backup PG with any experience. That's the position we are screwed at if injury happens. It will destroy our season. We still don't know if Mitch will be here in three days or three months either.

I don't even like the trade but, the hysteria around here is really telling me people paid zero attention to what this team did last year or, who got it done when it mattered most.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2107 » by NiceLikeChrist » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:29 am

god shammgod wrote:sounds like a lot of people who analyze this think the wolves won the trade. sad.

they got the best player in the trade and somehow also got us to give up a top 5 3pt shooting wing along with him

we got completely and disrespectfully fleeced
NiceLikeChrist wrote:We are going to deeply regret this. We traded away the best player in the trade and still had to give up a great role player AND a pick?

so many people are going to eat their words about randle
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2108 » by TraveyKnicks31 » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:30 am

Knick4Real wrote:
DaGawd wrote:thread is a war zone… :lol:



More like a Whine Bar

Image


Oh you didn’t know? this team is going to fall off a cliff now :lol:
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2109 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:31 am

Clyde_Style wrote:at least KAT locked up Joker in the playoffs

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2110 » by K_ick_God » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:31 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
aggo wrote:someone pull up game 7 randle highlights?


here's the 11-2 January highlight:
Read on Twitter


It's like showing a MAGA Trump's felony convictions and asking them why do they support a criminal: crickets.

Whenever someone shows one of the many clips of Randle behaving like this and asks how can you defend this lack of effort you also hear: crickets.


He’s just not a good player. He won a few games. Cost us a lot of early blowouts and end of game disasters too. He is a turnover machine and the worst defender and effort not giver I’ve ever seen.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2111 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:31 am

Context wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Context wrote:Minny said no several times...check this video out:


Tim Connelly is a good executive. I’m not surprised he would actually negotiate a little bit. Unless I misunderstood Bobby Marks, this move still is going to save them almost 100 million in tax next year. Right now the wolves are almost losing as much money as they’re being taxed too. Plus there’s lawsuits over ownership. Apparently the group trying to force the buy is setting up an escrow account with 200 mill just to prove they’ve got the money to handle the franchises outstanding debt. It’s naive to think that financials didn’t play a huge role in this. Especially with Reid and Gobert’s contract extensions coming up.

I dont buy that Kat has no value. He negotiated because they had other options- other places to send Kat. So ofcourse its pretty obvious that the financials were the primary factor but this notion that the Knicks were the only team that would trade for Kat
is not accurate. A center with Kat's skill set can play in a lot of systems and with a lot of players.


Sham's doesn’t really give off the impress there was some hot pursuit for towns. Just that the Knicks reached out in the last 2 weeks. Which further convinces me that Mitch has a setback cuz that timeline is way too coincidental. Knicks really wanted towns and Connelly made us negotiate against ourselves until we gave him what he wanted. Or at least that’s how I interpreted what shams said.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2112 » by TraveyKnicks31 » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:31 am

NiceLikeChrist wrote:
god shammgod wrote:sounds like a lot of people who analyze this think the wolves won the trade. sad.

they got the best player in the trade and somehow also got us to give up a top 5 3pt shooting wing along with him

we got completely and disrespectfully fleeced


We always seem to get fleeced Toronto fleeced us too same with the nets :lol:
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2113 » by mpharris36 » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:32 am

KAT ranks 33rd in the HISTORY of the nba in total rebound %. And again that would be higher if wasn't playing with one of the best rebounders all time in Gobert (5th all time in rebound %) the last two years.

Also KAT's contested rebound% destroys Randle contested rebound % over there careers. KAT's a better rebounder in every way.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2114 » by NiceLikeChrist » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:33 am

lets see how KAT does and if he's as good at making the entire team better. I doubt it.

[x]
Read on Twitter
[/x]
NiceLikeChrist wrote:We are going to deeply regret this. We traded away the best player in the trade and still had to give up a great role player AND a pick?

so many people are going to eat their words about randle
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2115 » by K_ick_God » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:33 am

mpharris36 wrote:KAT ranks 33rd in the HISTORY of the nba in total rebound %. And again that would be higher if wasn't playing with one of the best rebounders all time in Gobert (5th all time in rebound %) the last two years.

Also KAT's contested rebound% destroys Randle contested rebound % over there careers. KAT's a better rebounder in every way.


Randle wasn’t good at all at getting difficult rebounds.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2116 » by Guano » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:33 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
Guano wrote:
Buttah304 wrote:Image

Image

I really don’t know how people can’t see that KAT coming here is going to help Brunson out tremendously.

We’ve seen teams do this to Jalen during the regular season, but it really gets amplified in the playoffs over a 7 game series. Teams do not care if Mitch is slipping a screen or crapping their pants at the thought of a tear-drop floater by iHart.


No one is denying his offensive talent. He is definitely going to help the offense. Though he does choke in the playoffs. It happened last year in the wcf and against the grizzlies a few years back.

The glaring concern is on the defensive end.

KAT’s defense at C
Image


Yah, it's not like we aren't saying he is nice on offense. It's just he is making absurd money, changes the culture of the team, is dumb as hell, and sucks on defense. But he can stroke from 3. soft bigs don't lead teams to chips
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2117 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:33 am

mpharris36 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Pacers being swept is a bit of a reach to prove a point. Pacers should have won game 1 in that series and haliburton hurt his hamstring and basically didn't play again in the series.

Also and we have strong rebounding, strong wing defenders, and and PG that can dominate...what am I missing here?

We do not have strong rebounding anymore. Here's Minny's rank in defensive rebounding with KAT at C for 7 seasons:
23rd
20th
24th
27th
19th (KAT played 35 games)
24th
27th

Josh Hart is great. He's not THAT great to cover for KAT's weak rebounding.


KAT's weak rebounding???? He is a career 10.8 rebounder per game. And the only reason its that low the last two years he was playing with gobert...otherwise it would be well over 11 which would put him as one of the best rebounders in the NBA.

If you want to talk about his rim protection or controlling the interior on defense that is one thing...but saying KAT's a weak rebounder is wildly inaccurate.

C'mon. Total rebound numbers are hardly useful. E.g., Play with Westbrook as a C .. your numbers go down 3/36.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2118 » by E-Balla » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:34 am

Knicks218 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
If OG gets hurt, we’re looking at SF/PF options. We’re not looking at another guard to cover that. If anything, that’s the depth we’re lacking and should be looking to cover now that C is taken care of.

We have Josh Hart, OG, and Mikal Bridges already why TF would we need MORE SF depth? Do y'all hear yourselves?


Because OG is our PF now not our SF and if OG gets hurt we are screwed.

We would move Hart to PF and play Donte at SG please don't play dumb right now man.

Also if we're screwed if OG is hurt I got news for you buddy...
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2119 » by Knick4Real » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:35 am

mpharris36 wrote:why are we using KAT's 2027-28 contract number vs Julius Randle's 2024-25 contract number to compare them? Just curious that isn't apples to apples.


Because posters have succumbed to a need to be right over providing facts and making sense.

Who needs facts if it doesn't make their point?
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#2120 » by bronxknicksfan1 » Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:35 am

Hes_On_Fire wrote:Let's break this down.

Nobody cares that Randle was traded. He's not the reason people don't like the trade.

The Knicks lost iHart, their hustle rebounder and best passing big man and one of the core dog mentality guys on the team.

The Knicks also lost their best 3 point shooter in Donte Divicenzo. Not only is he their best shooter - he can shoot off the catch, something Bridges and Brunson aren't as comfortable doing. Donte could shoot the 3 any which way and had a quick release. He was lethal for us and we just gave the dude away like he was nothing. "Oh he wasn't going to get minutes". There's still plenty of minutes there. OG misses 50% of every season. Having Donte off the bench wasn't a good idea?

The bench is clearly weaker with the loss of DDV and there is no replacement for him at all. Shamet is a journeyman who sucks now, unless he regains his early Clippers form. I'm the biggest McBride fan - even before anyone wanted to draft him - but he's limited offensively. Cam Payne is a streaky clown who has become a journeyman. Precious is a solid depth piece but you can put the burden on him; he also has zero offensive skills. Jericho Sims has even worse offensive skills than Precious. Kolek is a real nice intangible guy but I'm iffy on Thibs actually giving him a real shot - plus having a small backcourt of Kolek and McBride would be abused defensively by bigger guards.

Now, onto Towns. The acquisition changes the entire chemistry of the team. It's not about Randle. It's about how they'll be playing. More of an outside-in team than a gritty inside-out team. You'll see a lot of settling for jumpers - especially from Towns, who is a finesse player. Towns also can't play drop coverage on defense, which is a Thibs staple. He gets cooked routinely. He's simply below average overall defensively. Nobody is scared of driving it in on Towns and nobody is definitely not scared of Towns defending a pick and roll. This is not even mentioning Towns softness on and off the court - particularly off the court with him whining about the fans being unfair to him, etc. People who think some soft ass dude is going to all of a sudden become a completely different person because he put on a Knicks jersey are delusional. You just acquired a dude who is the opposite of how we played on the court last year in terms of hustle, basketball IQ and chemistry. You destroyed all that for someone who doesn't even guarantee you a Conference Finals and you're locked into $50+ million a season for a non-superstar for a minimum of 3 years, probably 4 years.

You lost your best and most crafty 3 point shooter and got worse defensively but you gained a 3 point shooting big who can space the floor.

We emptied our entire clip on Mikal Bridges and Karl Anthony Towns.

We have a couple of middling 1sts and 10 2nd round picks to work with for the next 5 years. We're hardcapped in the 2nd apron after this move probably. No assets to acquire anyone worthwhile for the foreseeable future moving forward.

How does anyone look at this trade and think we are an NBA Finals contender? This is a typical "Knicks look formidable on paper" move that ends up a disaster.


So, we lost 2 bench pieces is what I got from most of this. Because both of those players come off the bench if we retained them. And Donte wasn’t getting OG’s minutes. He’s not a PF.

Since when are Brunson and Mikal uncomfortable shooting off the catch? Both of them are elite C&S (Brunson 44.5% 3 off the catch and Mikal 38.5% 3 off the catch).

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