PG Thread: Excellent loss

[ChaosHamster]

you don't redo a draft after 2 and a half months. you gotta wait years to be sure. michael carter willams won rookie of the year over oladipo. tyreke evans won it over harden and steph. see what i mean. it's silly.

you redo a draft at any given time you feel like talking about it. As time passes the redo will change based on performance and realizing potential. Also you can't honestly tell me that no team in the top 5 would try to take Doncic from the Mavs in a redraft even though very little time has passed.

We are just discussing random Knicks fan thoughts here.

Its always feels strange to me that people think its okay that teams make their decisions at the draft based on 30~ games in highschool, and how many? Like 40 games in College.

But when dudes have 40+ games under their belt in the big league, its somehow too early to re-evaluate them again.

[egelband]

I’m talking efficient scoring.

Not style of play.

I don’t see KD either.

Kanter is a really efficient scorer, is this the type of player we should be building around or can we get a Kobe

Kanter is a back to the basket big that slows the game down and has tunnel vision...who also can’t guard a chair.

But he shoots 55-plus percent. Not to mention the offensive rebounds. He certainly slows down the game but he also put a higher percentage of his shots into the bucket. That’s a huge difference.

[dakomish23]

And the guy we got because we didn't tank hard enough - Knox- he's pretty good too.

Is your point that you think what Knox has done should make me think it’s good we didn’t land Doncic?

Knicks never take who I want and I still support the kids. Frank wasn’t my guy (DSJ) but I’m one of the few left on Ntilikina island. Hell im still here caping for WHG.

you know damn well that willy aint sh*t

Give me the kid on the rookie deal who was fine coming off the bench over Kanter

[god shammgod]

you don't redo a draft after 2 and a half months. you gotta wait years to be sure. michael carter willams won rookie of the year over oladipo. tyreke evans won it over harden and steph. see what i mean. it's silly.

you redo a draft at any given time you feel like talking about it. As time passes the redo will change based on performance and realizing potential. Also you can't honestly tell me that no team in the top 5 would try to take Doncic from the Mavs in a redraft even though very little time has passed.

We are just discussing random Knicks fan thoughts here.

Its always feels strange to me that people think its okay that teams make their decisions at the draft based on 30~ games in highschool, and how many? Like 40 games in College.

But when dudes have 40+ games under their belt in the big league, its somehow too early to re-evaluate them again.

it's too early to know much more. besides luka do we really have that much more info on who might be an all-star in the future, who is a complete bust and won't make it past their rookie deal, who will have a solid career as a role player ? sure you can re-evaluate now, can you do so with much more accuracy ? probably not.

[robillionaire]

Kanter is a really efficient scorer, is this the type of player we should be building around or can we get a Kobe

Kanter is a back to the basket big that slows the game down and has tunnel vision...who also can’t guard a chair.

But he shoots 55-plus percent. Not to mention the offensive rebounds. He certainly slows down the game but he also put a higher percentage of his shots into the bucket. That’s a huge difference.

Well, the motto is “either you want efficient players or you don’t” and since we want efficient scorers we can’t take a nuanced look at other factors. I say we max him out.

[god shammgod]

don't restart that topic. c'mon. i been told you cap, it's the nuclear option. it's the only way.

[ChaosHamster]

you redo a draft at any given time you feel like talking about it. As time passes the redo will change based on performance and realizing potential. Also you can't honestly tell me that no team in the top 5 would try to take Doncic from the Mavs in a redraft even though very little time has passed.

We are just discussing random Knicks fan thoughts here.

Its always feels strange to me that people think its okay that teams make their decisions at the draft based on 30~ games in highschool, and how many? Like 40 games in College.

But when dudes have 40+ games under their belt in the big league, its somehow too early to re-evaluate them again.

it's too early to know much more. besides luka do we really have that much more info on who might be an all-star in the future, who is a complete bust and won't make it past their rookie deal, who will have a solid career as a role player ? sure you can re-evaluate now, can you do so with much more accuracy ? probably not.

I mean, so you are saying we should re-draft when we actually know how good pretty much every player is? Where is fun in that?

[god shammgod]

Its always feels strange to me that people think its okay that teams make their decisions at the draft based on 30~ games in highschool, and how many? Like 40 games in College.

But when dudes have 40+ games under their belt in the big league, its somehow too early to re-evaluate them again.

it's too early to know much more. besides luka do we really have that much more info on who might be an all-star in the future, who is a complete bust and won't make it past their rookie deal, who will have a solid career as a role player ? sure you can re-evaluate now, can you do so with much more accuracy ? probably not.

I mean, so you are saying we should re-draft when we actually know how good pretty much every player is? Where is fun in that?

i'm not a big fan of fun

[HarthorneWingo]

and f*ck the dumb sh*t. cavs about to pull out the win, keep your eyes on the road.

Now wait til we end up with the worst record but the Cavs jump us for the #1 pick

Honestly, from a game theory perspective, if you're trying to get the #1 pick, it makes no difference if you're the worst or 3rd worst team, cause the odds are the same

It's like betting on a dice roll and picking 6 cause it's the highest number

Having fifth pick at worst is still better than having the sixth or lower regardless.

Depends on the quality and depth of the draft.

[HarthorneWingo]

it's too early to know much more. besides luka do we really have that much more info on who might be an all-star in the future, who is a complete bust and won't make it past their rookie deal, who will have a solid career as a role player ? sure you can re-evaluate now, can you do so with much more accuracy ? probably not.

I mean, so you are saying we should re-draft when we actually know how good pretty much every player is? Where is fun in that?

i'm not a big fan of fun

That's what happens when you're a few centuries old. You get a little cranky.

[GONYK]

Excellent game. Hopefully changes to the roster occur that thin out the rotation like this permanently.

[Bklyn&company]

Like what I saw from the Knicks....

[magnumt]

Volume scorer is one of the more bizarre terms thrown around these days. Like, I got an insult for guys that score a lot like that's not the **** point of the game.

Scoring without context is meaningless. Anyone can score a lot if they take enough shots. The key to scoring is the rate that the shots go in. The Knicks, as a a team, struggle immensely with efficiency. It's why they're bad.

Most people hated Melo for this reason...but love Knox and KP who are both doing their best to immitate him.

If the goal was to move towards more effective and efficient scoring then this is not the answer.

People will point to PG...which is the same issue as before.

12-24 FGs
4-9 3PTs
3-4 FTs

Remind me again how those %s are NOT good for a Wing? Also, you hate when people randomly bring up Melo, yet here you are doing just that.

—Mags

[cgf]

lol we are the only fanbase who would spend time after a game like that bitching about a washed up chucker who hasn’t played for us in over a year

[KnicksGadfly]

Kanter is a really efficient scorer, is this the type of player we should be building around or can we get a Kobe

Kanter is a back to the basket big that slows the game down and has tunnel vision...who also can’t guard a chair.

But he shoots 55-plus percent. Not to mention the offensive rebounds. He certainly slows down the game but he also put a higher percentage of his shots into the bucket. That’s a huge difference.

And despite that, he can't get paid. You know hard that is? A double double big who is actually pretty good offensively...makes you wonder how teams really view his defense.

I'll tell you this though. If I could pick one player to get a 30-20 against the Cleveland Cavaliers, I know who I'd pick.

[HarthorneWingo]

The thing Frank misses, and you can see why Mudiay entices Fiz, is being able to dribble around and take a shot from anywhere. And Mudiay is still young but I just don't see him getting there. Too mistake prone and not really a PG in distribution.

Frank is not going to be able to dribble out and in and get his shot. Mudiay can do that and props to him, but he misses a lot currently.

Not sure what to say - right now Frank is dribble in or shoot from deep mostly. He's also developing his in-between some. If you're looking for a guy who will be able to take shots from anywhere on the court then maybe he's not your guy.

Some very effective PGs have been able to run the team, hit some shots, and be hard to stop at the basket. Having a lot of shots in your repertoire ... can be overrated if you're not making them. Again, JR didn't create shots as a Knick so much as create misses.

Frank plays D, passes, has intangibles, and I think he'll develop the other components. Only the best PGs can also keep the ball on a string and move in and out. The fact that Mudiay can do that IS impressive. But he does a lot of stuff that is not impressive at all - namely missing, bad D, and stupid plays. He'll get smarter and better if he sticks with it but it feels to me like he's just amping up to get some kind of check.

There's no way you should keep him.

I disagree. He just needs more reps on the court and continue to develop little bits offensively every offseason.

He's not slow and his first step has looked like it's improved from last year. He did have a spin around jumper in the lane that went in and out.

His ballhandling and his first step have definitely improved since last season. If he can start knocking down his 3 point shot with more consistency than it'll open up the midrange area for him even more.

He did a great job tonight distributing the ball. My big knock on him is he has the momentary mental lapses on offense where he telegraphs his passes a bit too often. He didn't have that issue at all today, he made the right reads and exhibited a good level of court vision.

I have faith in him and think he has the chance to be a special player. His situation is unique given his background so I'm going a much more patient route with him than most I guess.

I thought I saw improvement from Frank in this game. That first drive to the hoop for 2 was lightening quick and aggressive. Frank knew he had that even before he had the ball which is great because he's beginning to see things. He also h threaded the needle for that nifty pass to someone for a easy layup.

I beginning to think that there's actually some utility to giving players a block of games in the rotation and then a block of time to sit and reflect and work on some stuff, watch film, etc. and then go back in for another block of games. It's a great technique when trying to learn something. I just realized that employ the same technique when learning a song or lick on the guitar or when I'm trying to memorize something.

[blueNorange]

knox's shooting form is beautiful.

[blueNorange]

I can't front. When Phil gave Kornet that 2-way deal so fast, I thought he was bugging and Kornet was a scrub.

But this dude is a legit rotation player and he is really developing nicely. He is not just a shooter. He can pass, protect the rim by going straight up even if he doesn't block the shot, and most importantly...he is unafraid!

Dude was really frustrating Embiid out there. I like him. Kudos to Phil and Gaines for that.

he looked so lethargic, but all of sudden moves well off the ball and gets himself open.

and the passing is out of no where.

[blueNorange]

I can see Mudiay returning, not saying I want him to. he actually has pg skills, just cant get the mindset and skills in sync.

or you sign tj mcconnell as the backup pg.

[MaseInYourFace]

Most people hated Melo for this reason...but love Knox and KP who are both doing their best to immitate him.

If the goal was to move towards more effective and efficient scoring then this is not the answer.

People will point to PG...which is the same issue as before.

Well the big difference is both are younger and both are at least moldable.

Is there hypocrisy? Sure but I’m not sure this is the battle worth dying on a hill for.

I’m not even on a hill. Calling **** how I see it.

Knox is not efficient.

Say different. You can’t.

KP is not efficient.

Say different. You can’t.


That’s what BG is pointing out and I thoroughly agree with his premise since it’s one that he stays consistent with.


Either you want efficient players or you don’t.

No hill. No bait. Simple truth. People don’t like when weaknesses that are glaring are pointed out about players on a 10 win team. That’s stupidity.

The only poster even trying to address the efficiency argument is Cap. Problem is that this same argument has been had since Jason Kidd retired. Do you have faith that we will finally go get a PG to control these scorers we have? I don’t and Zion is not a PG. We need players who don’t need a PG.

I wouldn't expect any rookie wing or guard to be efficient. Especially on a team like this current Knicks team.

I do think Knox will eventually be efficient though. He takes pretty high percentage shots and is a good three point shooter. A lot of his misses are layups he can't finish yet because he needs to get stronger or he isn't getting the free throws because he's a rookie. I think putting that label on him at this point is kinda petty.