2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

[HarthorneWingo]

i mean can we all be honest about wiseman? No one really knows.

He played 3...3 total college games (1 meaningful game) where he picked up 2 early fouls. So he played 1 meaningful half of college basketball (and he was pretty good in the second half) so anyone suggesting they have a full scouting report on him is probably reaching.

He is a complete unknown unless you were in a high school gym day in and day out watching him play. I can take him going up against 6'5 opposing centers of teams as legit competition.

You think he'll participate in the NBA pre-draft workouts?

who knows whats going to happen with all this COVID-19 sh*t.

Someone like Wiseman would benefit from more eyes on him...especially with his college career basically shut down before it even started.

From the highlights I saw, the kid is a beast. He has a nice touch from the foul line which is important. He's a prototypical old-school center who can dominate in the post. Maybe he has 3 point capability later, who knows? But for now, he's either getting the ball down low or off the PnR and offensive rebounds. The big question is does he have that killer instinct on the defensive end? That's what'll make all the difference.

[mpharris36]

But he's more polished than some of the younger guys. Now if he looked just as raw as the younger guys and if he looked like somebody who will take a while to adjust to the NBA then I can see the point or if his ceiling just wasn't that high but that's not the case. He's got just as much potential to become an NBA star as the other guys in his class and he's more polished than some of them already. Realistically, who wants to draft another raw prospect that is a couple years away from being a couple years away? That's not just relative to age but a combination of age and current skills and likelihood of translating on the next level sooner than later.

The 2nd contract would be more what I'm worried about. Someone so reliant on athleticism getting a guy that will be close to 23 years old by the time he plays his first NBA game. His 2nd NBA contract is going to take him into his 30's. When other guys would be in there mid 20's.

That is a huge issue for me. Also whats his ceiling? He dominated the A-10? How many legit bigs are in the A-10?

He's a talented prospect but factor in he also brings nothing on the defensive end with his age...concerns me about his ceiling.

I don't know how well his game will translate either. He scores a lot in the paint and on post-ups against younger/smaller players. He will have a tougher time with that in the NBA. Then his defense is a little questionable. I think between his age and game it does limit his upside a bit.

I do think he can be a solid player/stretch 4. But would rather take a chance on a G, like Hayes/Haliburton/Cole cause the upside would be a lot higher if they pan out for us.

agreed and im not suggesting toppin isn't a top 10 pick. Because I believe he is. But he's at the end of the top 10 for me do to the age (celing) and defense concerns.

Much rather shoot for the sky and take a young guard that can give this team a much needed boost.

[mpharris36]

You think he'll participate in the NBA pre-draft workouts?

who knows whats going to happen with all this COVID-19 sh*t.

Someone like Wiseman would benefit from more eyes on him...especially with his college career basically shut down before it even started.

From the highlights I saw, the kid is a beast. He has a nice touch from the foul line which is important. He's a prototypical old-school center who can dominate in the post. Maybe he has 3 point capability later, who knows? But for now, he's either getting the ball down low or off the PnR and offensive rebounds. The big question is does he have that killer instinct on the defensive end? That's what'll make all the difference.

what highlights though? High school?

He's talented but can he do this night in a night out vs guys just as big/strong/athletic?

[3toheadmelo]

not when they haven't played a single NBA game yet when his pears are into there 3rd and 4th year.

Your talking about the end of his rookie deal being 26 going on to 27 years old

when his pears could be 22 going onto 23...that is a huge difference for 2nd contract types which you hope is the case when drafting a lottery pick.

Doesn't really matter when he's more polished than his peers. Brandon Clarke fell hard in the draft due to his age and now looks like a massive steal. Don't think teams will make that same mistake again with Obi.

there is a difference. Brandon Clarke being a steal at 21 is not the same as picking Brandon Clarke in the top 5.

I like Clarke I like him a lot as a player. But you are suggesting you are picking Clarke in the top 5 like you are Toppin?

No. Clarke is not a top 5 player in his draft. Just pointing out that age doesn't mean much. He shouldn't have fell all the way to 21.
Obi is a top 5 player in this draft though. This draft is weaker than last year.

[mpharris36]

This draft is weaker than last year.

yes

Obi is a top 5 player in this draft though.

debatable

[3toheadmelo]

This draft is weaker than last year.

yes

Obi is a top 5 player in this draft though.

debatable

Of course it's debatable. You can make a case for anyone being top 5 lol this draft weak

[mpharris36]

This draft is weaker than last year.

yes

Obi is a top 5 player in this draft though.

debatable

Of course it's debatable. You can make a case for anyone being top 5 lol this draft weak

i think its not weak it just doesn't have a lot of superstar talent.

For example Paul Reed is expected to go in the 20's...how is he any different of a prospect than Brandon Clarke?

[blanko]

Spoken like someone who never watched him play live

How many games have you seen him play live? Multiple scouting reports say the same thing: that he isnt a high motor guy, that he settles for mid range jumpers, that he doesnt show tenacity.

The guy is a habitual fade away shooter in the post in highschool and college playing agaisnt smaller/less atheletic defenders.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Yeah in high school he settled for mad jumpers. But in college he played with a high motor and dominated in the paint like he's supposed to do. He specifically said he wanted to work on his motor and he did exactly that in college. That shows he's coachable and is aware of his weaknesses. You're reading scouting reports from high school which is pretty irrelevant.

So we should go on 3 games instead?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[HEZI]

when the rest of his draft class is 3-4 years younger?

But he's more polished than some of the younger guys. Now if he looked just as raw as the younger guys and if he looked like somebody who will take a while to adjust to the NBA then I can see the point or if his ceiling just wasn't that high but that's not the case. He's got just as much potential to become an NBA star as the other guys in his class and he's more polished than some of them already. Realistically, who wants to draft another raw prospect that is a couple years away from being a couple years away? That's not just relative to age but a combination of age and current skills and likelihood of translating on the next level sooner than later.

The 2nd contract would be more what I'm worried about. Someone so reliant on athleticism getting a guy that will be close to 23 years old by the time he plays his first NBA game. His 2nd NBA contract is going to take him into his 30's. When other guys would be in there mid 20's.

That is a huge issue for me. Also whats his ceiling? He dominated the A-10? How many legit bigs are in the A-10?

He's a talented prospect but factor in he also brings nothing on the defensive end with his age...concerns me about his ceiling.

That's taking the business side of things waaaay too far down the road and really overthinking things. Nobody should be worried about 2nd contracts right now, we got far greater things to worry about. Whenever that time comes for contracts then worry about it. Imagine not drafting Dame Lillard all the way back in 2012 because of worries like that.

His ceiling is high, to me he is a way better prospect than Rui was last year and Rui had a very solid rookie campaign. Obi has the tools to be really good, maybe not superstar level but very good nonetheless. I wouldn't say him being a superstar is out of the question either, he's got the tools to reach that level especially with the way the league is trending and the versatility he can offer, plus he's still young enough to keep getting better and improving.

[3toheadmelo]

yes



debatable

Of course it's debatable. You can make a case for anyone being top 5 lol this draft weak

i think its not weak it just doesn't have a lot of superstar talent.

For example Paul Reed is expected to go in the 20's...how is he any different of a prospect than Brandon Clarke?

I havent seen Paul reed play before but I have heard of him. Ill get back to you on that

Just cause this draft lacks star talent is why it's weak imo. This draft is the draft of role players lol

[god shammgod]

just what we need. another power forward, who is already 22, and doesn't defend or rebound. hi melo.....you're fired.

[3toheadmelo]

How many games have you seen him play live? Multiple scouting reports say the same thing: that he isnt a high motor guy, that he settles for mid range jumpers, that he doesnt show tenacity.

The guy is a habitual fade away shooter in the post in highschool and college playing agaisnt smaller/less atheletic defenders.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Yeah in high school he settled for mad jumpers. But in college he played with a high motor and dominated in the paint like he's supposed to do. He specifically said he wanted to work on his motor and he did exactly that in college. That shows he's coachable and is aware of his weaknesses. You're reading scouting reports from high school which is pretty irrelevant.

So we should go on 3 games instead?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

I would go from the Hoop summit and then to now. The Hoop Summit is where he started to address his flaws. Not sure what else you want me to tell you. Cole Anthony was very efficient in high school and was super ineffecient in college. So.. yeah. High school scouting reports don't hold that much weight.

[blanko]

You think he'll participate in the NBA pre-draft workouts?

who knows whats going to happen with all this COVID-19 sh*t.

Someone like Wiseman would benefit from more eyes on him...especially with his college career basically shut down before it even started.

From the highlights I saw, the kid is a beast. He has a nice touch from the foul line which is important. He's a prototypical old-school center who can dominate in the post. Maybe he has 3 point capability later, who knows? But for now, he's either getting the ball down low or off the PnR and offensive rebounds. The big question is does he have that killer instinct on the defensive end? That's what'll make all the difference.

He shot 56%from the line in hs and other than the one out of three games he shot well in his ft shooting was around that range.

https://www.maxpreps.com/m/athlete/james-wiseman/4MOaqfTlEeKZ5AAmVebBJg/basketball/stats.htm

One game in college he shot 6/7
The other two games?
9/14
4/6

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/james-wiseman-1/gamelog/9999/

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[mpharris36]

Of course it's debatable. You can make a case for anyone being top 5 lol this draft weak

i think its not weak it just doesn't have a lot of superstar talent.

For example Paul Reed is expected to go in the 20's...how is he any different of a prospect than Brandon Clarke?

I havent seen Paul reed play before but I have heard of him. Ill get back to you on that

Just cause this draft lacks star talent is why it's weak imo. This draft is the draft of role players lol

starting/role players with the ability to be 2nd or 3rd best players on a core team if they pan out.

No Zion's, no Luka's, no high end talent. Agree there.

[3toheadmelo]

just what we need. another power forward, who is already 22, and doesn't defend or rebound. hi melo.....you're fired.

You cant fire me

[mpharris36]

just what we need. another power forward, who is already 22, and doesn't defend or rebound. hi melo.....you're fired.

[blanko]

Yeah in high school he settled for mad jumpers. But in college he played with a high motor and dominated in the paint like he's supposed to do. He specifically said he wanted to work on his motor and he did exactly that in college. That shows he's coachable and is aware of his weaknesses. You're reading scouting reports from high school which is pretty irrelevant.

So we should go on 3 games instead?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

I would go from the Hoop summit and then to now. The Hoop Summit is where he started to address his flaws. Not sure what else you want me to tell you. Cole Anthony was very efficient in high school and was super ineffecient in college. So.. yeah. High school scouting reports don't hold that much weight.

When the guys college career consists of 3 games ... yes highschool games and scouting reports matter.

Because the hoops summit is a allstar/exhibition game.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[mpharris36]

Yeah in high school he settled for mad jumpers. But in college he played with a high motor and dominated in the paint like he's supposed to do. He specifically said he wanted to work on his motor and he did exactly that in college. That shows he's coachable and is aware of his weaknesses. You're reading scouting reports from high school which is pretty irrelevant.

So we should go on 3 games instead?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

I would go from the Hoop summit and then to now. The Hoop Summit is where he started to address his flaws. Not sure what else you want me to tell you. Cole Anthony was very efficient in high school and was super ineffecient in college. So.. yeah. High school scouting reports don't hold that much weight.

neither do high school highlight videos...





jk jk

[3toheadmelo]

So we should go on 3 games instead?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

I would go from the Hoop summit and then to now. The Hoop Summit is where he started to address his flaws. Not sure what else you want me to tell you. Cole Anthony was very efficient in high school and was super ineffecient in college. So.. yeah. High school scouting reports don't hold that much weight.

When the guys college career consists of 3 games ... yes highschool games and scouting reports matter.

Because the hoops summit is a allstar/exhibition game.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Yeah well there's scouts at the Hoop Summit also. And at the practices. He impressed plenty of scouts there due to his motor.

And like I said, Cole Anthony was super efficient in high school and played like the complete opposite in college. So if you want to judge players on meaningless scouting reports then go ahead. I ain't stopping you. Lol

[3toheadmelo]

So we should go on 3 games instead?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

I would go from the Hoop summit and then to now. The Hoop Summit is where he started to address his flaws. Not sure what else you want me to tell you. Cole Anthony was very efficient in high school and was super ineffecient in college. So.. yeah. High school scouting reports don't hold that much weight.

neither do high school highlight videos...





jk jk

I only use them to show people what Wiseman can do. People think he is a rim runner and nothing more. He's pretty talented