2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[WargamesX]

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Not for nothing we should discuss Theo more if we go BPA with #6, he could be someone we try and move up to get.

[HarthorneWingo]

i'm really intrigued with the idea of taking payton pritchard with one of our later picks even if we come away with lamelo or another higher profile lead guard with our first pick. i don't see him being mutually exclusive with those types of players and he might even improve their game, especially early on. i'm not at all scared off by his age and, to the contrary, love seeing the steady improvement through each of his four years at oregon. his advanced stats compare favorably to FVV's in some ways and i could see him playing a similar type of role alongside a premier guard down the line:

FVV 2014-15

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Season     PER  TS% eFG% 3PAr  FTr PProd AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG% OWS DWS  WS   WS/40 OBPM DBPM  BPM
2014-15   26.7 .552 .487 .319 .476   520 35.0  3.9  0.4 12.1  24.0 4.4 2.6 7.0    .253  7.3  4.6 11.9


PP 2019-20

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Season     PER  TS% eFG% 3PAr  FTr PProd AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG% OWS DWS  WS   WS/40 OBPM DBPM  BPM
2019-20   27.1 .601 .563 .459 .303   640 31.5  2.5  0.1 13.9  28.2 5.3 1.4 6.7    .235  9.2  1.9 11.1


i like the idea of going after FVV in FA but would much rather try to grab PP in the draft if we can and hope he develops into a carbon copy. makes much more sense with our timeline.

Yeah I’m a big fan of Pritchard. Would love to get him if we can’t get Karim Mane, or perhaps get both.

Melo, I see why you like Main, the college player, but where would you play him? SG? He's too slow to guard that position. He looks like a tweener to me. I don't think he can guard the 2 spot but maybe as a 3.

[jvsimonetti0514]

4 more months of endless debates let’s go

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Not gonna lie, I don’t really have anything else to say that I haven’t said already about these prospects and we’re not even close to the draft. Hopefully some work out videos start leaking out now that lockdowns are starting the lift. We need something to spice up the fighting.

[blanko]

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Can’t wait to see him light up the garden.

He aint half the athelete penny was.

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maybe but I do see a lot of similarities in their size and play style. I was trying to find highlights of penny at age 18. he didn't enter the nba until 22. so his two years at memphis st. were 20 and 21. So I had to go back to high school highlights from 1990 to see what he may have looked like around lamelo's age. weirdly enough 16 seconds in there's mike breen calling his high school game

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He cant get into the lane like penny, he cant finish like penny, he doesnt have the handle like penny, he cant dunk like penny, and his first step is nowhere like penny.

Other than both being tall guards they really aren't that similar

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[blanko]

I like wood (pause) But not if the price is gross. I don’t see the pistons letting him go though. But he’s a good fit for the Knicks. RJ”s playstyle meshes with bigs that can shoot efficiently from distance

How y’all feel about tillie second round? He is always injured but vet player with a nice feel when healthy

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He seems like the type of guy you throw a 2nd rounder at. But i am more into getting as many 6'6~6'9 wings as possible.

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[blanko]

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One of my favorite options with a later pick. Very versatile

Interesting prospect

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[blanko]

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Same weaknesses we been discussing

Didn't watch, but assuming it shines on him being a 0 in the half-court. Prob a 2 at the next level unless he plays w a 2 like Booker.

Kinda like that Dwayne Wade/Donovan Mitchell type.

If you were a believer that RJ could be that numero uno type guy I could see it play out well. If he's not then you have two secondary guys and still need a main guy...

Or if Giannis came...then Hali would be a perfect compliment

Wade and mitchell have a physical gift that haliburton doesnt have: exceptional wingspans. Wade and mitchell have wingspans of over 6'10. James harden has a 6'11 wingspan.

In my limited research, successful atheletic and/or smaller guards all have elite wingspans. exceptions being steph curry and cj to an extent.

I worry about atheletic guards with avg/below avg wingspans because it seems that they need to turn into elite shooters to be exceptional.



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[RHODEY]

Didn't watch, but assuming it shines on him being a 0 in the half-court. Prob a 2 at the next level unless he plays w a 2 like Booker.

Kinda like that Dwayne Wade/Donovan Mitchell type.

If you were a believer that RJ could be that numero uno type guy I could see it play out well. If he's not then you have two secondary guys and still need a main guy...

Or if Giannis came...then Hali would be a perfect compliment

Wade and mitchell have a physical gift that haliburton doesnt have: exceptional wingspans. Wade and mitchell have wingspans of over 6'10. James harden has a 6'11 wingspan.

In my limited research, successful atheletic and/or smaller guards all have elite wingspans. exceptions being steph curry and cj to an extent.

I worry about atheletic guards with avg/below avg wingspans because it seems that they need to turn into elite shooters to be exceptional.



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Haliburton has a 7'0" wingspan.....

[blanko]

Kinda like that Dwayne Wade/Donovan Mitchell type.

If you were a believer that RJ could be that numero uno type guy I could see it play out well. If he's not then you have two secondary guys and still need a main guy...

Or if Giannis came...then Hali would be a perfect compliment

Wade and mitchell have a physical gift that haliburton doesnt have: exceptional wingspans. Wade and mitchell have wingspans of over 6'10. James harden has a 6'11 wingspan.

In my limited research, successful atheletic and/or smaller guards all have elite wingspans. exceptions being steph curry and cj to an extent.

I worry about atheletic guards with avg/below avg wingspans because it seems that they need to turn into elite shooters to be exceptional.



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Haliburton has a 7'0" wingspan.....

"At 6-foot-5, with an estimated wingspan of 6-foot-8"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/zacharycohen/2020/04/11/tyrese-haliburton-is-the-most-intriguing-guard-in-the-2020-nba-draft/amp/

Avg nba wingspan not elite. Guys like mitchell, harden, wade have wingspans that excede their height by 4+ inches.



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[HarthorneWingo]

Wade and mitchell have a physical gift that haliburton doesnt have: exceptional wingspans. Wade and mitchell have wingspans of over 6'10. James harden has a 6'11 wingspan.

In my limited research, successful atheletic and/or smaller guards all have elite wingspans. exceptions being steph curry and cj to an extent.

I worry about atheletic guards with avg/below avg wingspans because it seems that they need to turn into elite shooters to be exceptional.



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Haliburton has a 7'0" wingspan.....

"At 6-foot-5, with an estimated wingspan of 6-foot-8"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/zacharycohen/2020/04/11/tyrese-haliburton-is-the-most-intriguing-guard-in-the-2020-nba-draft/amp/

Avg nba wingspan not elite. Guys like mitchell, harden, wade have wingspans that excede their height by 4+ inches.

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Which doesn't mean that he not a good defender. He is.

[RHODEY]

Wade and mitchell have a physical gift that haliburton doesnt have: exceptional wingspans. Wade and mitchell have wingspans of over 6'10. James harden has a 6'11 wingspan.

In my limited research, successful atheletic and/or smaller guards all have elite wingspans. exceptions being steph curry and cj to an extent.

I worry about atheletic guards with avg/below avg wingspans because it seems that they need to turn into elite shooters to be exceptional.



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Haliburton has a 7'0" wingspan.....

"At 6-foot-5, with an estimated wingspan of 6-foot-8"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/zacharycohen/2020/04/11/tyrese-haliburton-is-the-most-intriguing-guard-in-the-2020-nba-draft/amp/

Avg nba wingspan not elite. Guys like mitchell, harden, wade have wingspans that excede their height by 4+ inches.



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Multiple sources list 7'0" and think that estimate is off.

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/tyrese-haliburton.html
https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2020/03/27/marial-shayok-tyrese-haliburton-nba-mock-draft-iowa-state-cyclones/
https://ripcityproject.com/2019/04/21/2019-nba-draft-prospect-profile-tyrese-haliburton/

Even the stephien estimates it to be around 6"11"

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/14/tyrese-haliburton-scouting-report/

[aggo]

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Same weaknesses we been discussing

yeah Halliburton does have some serious bust-factor issues like Lamelo and Edwards do.


He can't hang and bang at the rim
Doesnt have elite explosion
Doest have ability to create off the dribble consistently
But is an excellent shooter, team passer & has size


The more tape I watch the more I think he's a 2 in the NBA. You need to run the transition OR PNR at an elite level in the NBA to be a primary ball handler, there's just no real way around this.

So if he's a slow-footed 2 guard where does that place him? Shaun Livingston type of player? Klay Thompson? Old Joe Johnson? Lonzo Ball??

[aggo]

Also, it would be amazing to see a good offensive coach have

Frank-Halliburton-RJ backcourt

You could run a million different set plays and gimmick traps, counters, etc. in lieu of running a PNR. I dont know if it would be effective, but it for sure would be interesting to watch develop

[Deeeez Knicks]

Haliburton has a 7'0" wingspan.....

"At 6-foot-5, with an estimated wingspan of 6-foot-8"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/zacharycohen/2020/04/11/tyrese-haliburton-is-the-most-intriguing-guard-in-the-2020-nba-draft/amp/

Avg nba wingspan not elite. Guys like mitchell, harden, wade have wingspans that excede their height by 4+ inches.



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Multiple sources list 7'0" and think that estimate is off.

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/tyrese-haliburton.html
https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2020/03/27/marial-shayok-tyrese-haliburton-nba-mock-draft-iowa-state-cyclones/
https://ripcityproject.com/2019/04/21/2019-nba-draft-prospect-profile-tyrese-haliburton/

Even the stephien estimates it to be around 6"11"

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/14/tyrese-haliburton-scouting-report/

Hopefully they are able to do official measurements. I have seen Haliburton's wingspan all over the place. He looks like he has good length, but not sure he has a 7' wingspan.

[god shammgod]

everyone waking up to the fact that we don't need another frank with extra condiments. my work here is done.

[newyorker4ever]

Obi and Niko would get slaughtered on defense....slaughtered!

That's true but luckily the game isn't only played with 2 players and is a team game and if you can get all 5 guys to play team defense it could work with Mitch at the 5 and strong defenders at the 2 and 3 spots. I'm not a big Obi guy with his bad defense being one of the major reasons and am hoping Perrin stays with the Jazz way of building with defensive players but if we do draft Obi then we still need to get a PG and Mannion would be a nice pickup in the late 1st round at #27. I also like T.Jones who's a much better defender.

can you name one championship team that had 2 atrocious defenders at the point of attack?

teams would just isolate those two in the 1-4 P&R and what would team defense do there?

The Knicks are as far away from even thinking championship as any team in the NBA is right now. Championship teams have been made up of team putting together super star rosters of 2 and even 3 of the top stars in the NBA and then you get the veterans to come and make a championship run with those stars on cheap underpaid deals, for the Knicks to get anywhere close to that then every young player we have now including whoever we draft in this draft will get traded for that 1st and 2nd star. We should be thinking about just getting better and hopefully making a run for the playoffs in the weak east before we think championship.

The teams that do come to mind would be the Mavericks when they won their championship and Cleveland as teams that didn't have that many good defenders on their championship teams.

Just to be clear, i am not a big fan of drafting Toppin with our lottery pick but i'm also very far from being a "draft expert" (whatever that is) so if they do then i sure will be hoping this guy can add more tools to his great athleticism he has now.

My list of guys i have over Toppin.
L.Ball
A.Edwards
T.Haliburton
J.Wiseman--Hi Melo
K.Hayes
I start thinking about Toppin and Deni around this point.

[mpharris36]

That's true but luckily the game isn't only played with 2 players and is a team game and if you can get all 5 guys to play team defense it could work with Mitch at the 5 and strong defenders at the 2 and 3 spots. I'm not a big Obi guy with his bad defense being one of the major reasons and am hoping Perrin stays with the Jazz way of building with defensive players but if we do draft Obi then we still need to get a PG and Mannion would be a nice pickup in the late 1st round at #27. I also like T.Jones who's a much better defender.

can you name one championship team that had 2 atrocious defenders at the point of attack?

teams would just isolate those two in the 1-4 P&R and what would team defense do there?

The Knicks are as far away from even thinking championship as any team in the NBA is right now. Championship teams have been made up of team putting together super star rosters of 2 and even 3 of the top stars in the NBA and then you get the veterans to come and make a championship run with those stars on cheap underpaid deals, for the Knicks to get anywhere close to that then every young player we have now including whoever we draft in this draft will get traded for that 1st and 2nd star. We should be thinking about just getting better and hopefully making a run for the playoffs in the weak east before we think championship.

The teams that do come to mind would be the Mavericks when they won their championship and Cleveland as teams that didn't have that many good defenders on their championship teams.

The mavs had Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, and Shawn Marion all playing prominent roles. And While Dirk was a bad defender he was also a historically all time great offensive player.

And the other scenario is the cavs and they had the best player from this decade/era.

The point being unless some of these guys are legendary offensive players (which they wont be). It is so hard to build a winner with your best players be atrocious defenders.

Just look at this year. KAT had one of the most dynamic offensive seasons ever for a big man and they couldn't win anything in Minny. Also in ATL Trae Young and John Collins both put up huge numbers and both teams had worse records than the Knicks.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I am just not sure how well Obi's game will translate to the NBA. I see the Amare comparisons thrown around, but people forget how good young Amare was. I don't see Obi on that level. A pretty big red flag that he is doing all this at 22 years old in the A-10 too...Amare was an all-nba player at 22

I think Obi can still be decent in a role, but maybe a hard player to fit in...its always tough to fit in PFs/Cs that are really bad on defense and make them a core piece, as we have seen many times.

In the 6-10 range, there are other players i would rather have. Would take a shot at Cole or Kira Lewis even over Obi for the Knicks. Obi doesnt make sense at all for the Knicks to draft.

[DaGawd]

I am just not sure how well Obi's game will translate to the NBA. I see the Amare comparisons thrown around, but people forget how good young Amare was. I don't see Obi on that level. A pretty big red flag that he is doing all this at 22 years old in the A-10 too...Amare was an all-nba player at 22

I think Obi can still be decent in a role, but maybe a hard player to fit in...its always tough to fit in PFs/Cs that are really bad on defense and make them a core piece, as we have seen many times.

In the 6-10 range, there are other players i would rather have. Would take a shot at Cole or Kira Lewis even over Obi for the Knicks. Obi doesnt make sense at all for the Knicks to draft.

Exactly. Young Amar'e was a freakish athlete. I don't see that same level of athleticism in Obi

[3toheadmelo]

i'm really intrigued with the idea of taking payton pritchard with one of our later picks even if we come away with lamelo or another higher profile lead guard with our first pick. i don't see him being mutually exclusive with those types of players and he might even improve their game, especially early on. i'm not at all scared off by his age and, to the contrary, love seeing the steady improvement through each of his four years at oregon. his advanced stats compare favorably to FVV's in some ways and i could see him playing a similar type of role alongside a premier guard down the line:

FVV 2014-15

Code: Select all

                                                                                                     
Season     PER  TS% eFG% 3PAr  FTr PProd AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG% OWS DWS  WS   WS/40 OBPM DBPM  BPM
2014-15   26.7 .552 .487 .319 .476   520 35.0  3.9  0.4 12.1  24.0 4.4 2.6 7.0    .253  7.3  4.6 11.9


PP 2019-20

Code: Select all

                                                                                                     
Season     PER  TS% eFG% 3PAr  FTr PProd AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG% OWS DWS  WS   WS/40 OBPM DBPM  BPM
2019-20   27.1 .601 .563 .459 .303   640 31.5  2.5  0.1 13.9  28.2 5.3 1.4 6.7    .235  9.2  1.9 11.1


i like the idea of going after FVV in FA but would much rather try to grab PP in the draft if we can and hope he develops into a carbon copy. makes much more sense with our timeline.

Yeah I’m a big fan of Pritchard. Would love to get him if we can’t get Karim Mane, or perhaps get both.

Melo, I see why you like Main, the college player, but where would you play him? SG? He's too slow to guard that position. He looks like a tweener to me. I don't think he can guard the 2 spot but maybe as a 3.

Not sure who you’re talking about