bishnykfan wrote:Pointgod wrote:bishnykfan wrote:I'm not sure what the racial breakdown of the city has to do with riots. Portland is 81% white and is obviously not a republican city. It's being used as one of the main cities of Trump's law and order campaign. But I guess it's easy to blame all of the white nationalist and Nazi police officers in the inner city police departments rather then put any blame on the leaders of those cities that keep hiring these Nazi's year after year. Never mind the policies that those leaders put in place. If the people in charge never have to take any responsibility and can always use the scapegoat of the person below them as the problem, then things will never get fixed, no matter which party leads. Most big cities even in red states do not lean left, they are left. Philadelphia is blue since 1952, Chicago since 1931, why do the leaders of these places allow so many white supremacists on their police force? Even Houston, the biggest city in the biggest red state hasn't had a Republican mayor in almost 40 years. Are the white supremacists that intelligent that they can continually get past all of the screenings to get onto the police force in these cities? Or is it possible that there are some that are just not very good at their job? Maybe some that are poorly trained? Maybe some that have been beaten down by the job? Of course there are some racist police officers, just like there are racist teachers, racist politicians, racist athletes, racist doctors and whatever other profession you want to use. All bad police should be taken off the job. There absolutely needs to be reform. Racism is a real thing. But to say you want to fix the problem of police racism without looking at the people who are in charge of the police...seems disingenuous to me.
Crime, especially violent crime, in the cities is going up. And the "quality of life" crimes are also going up even if they aren't reported as often as they once were for various reasons. There are a lot of reasons for that. The pandemic and the lockdowns for sure is one. The racial tension is another. The media is a big one. And one is absolutely that the police are pulling back in their responsibilities. But, that shouldn't be surprising. Crime will continue to rise if there are no consequences. It's unfortunate and it will get worse before it gets better if local leaders (left or right) don't protect their people.
If I show you proof that White Supremacists have infiltrated law enforcement will you just dismiss the source or will you take in the information? I’m not going to bother finding the research if it’s going to fall on deaf ears. The biggest problem with your logic is that police unions are very powerful and are sometimes openly hostile to the mayor. Look at the police turning their backs on De Blasio for example. Sometimes this is a good thing because you don’t want to centralize power in the hands of a corrupt mayor, but it also leads to out of control police unions that fight any reform and at worst instruct their officers to not do their jobs (you know want the tax payers pay them for)
And show me the stats that support the bolded across the country. 2020 is an outlier but overall crime is down across the country continuing a trend that had started since the 90’s. If you want to talk about specific cities let’s get into it but the American carnage narrative is completely false.
Like I said, I'm sure that there are white supremacists in the police departments. I'm sure that there are racist people in all walks of life and white supremacists who are all about "power" would naturally be drawn to policing as an occupation. I am not questioning that statement and I concede that to be true. Racist police are the worst part of our society because they are supposed to be the ultimate in public service to all regardless of race.
I also understand that police unions are incredibly powerful. Probably too powerful in our biggest cities. Unions in general are powerful in certain places and occupations. I also said that there needs to be true reform in policing. I don't think you'd find an argument among most people when it comes to that statement.
However, when everyone says they want to look deeper into the "systematic racism" that is prevalent throughout society but then not look at the leaders of that society it feels a little weak. These big cities are all run by democratic mayors mostly in democratic states. They have the power and just as importantly, they've had the time to change things. Has Baltimore improved in the past 68 years? Has Philadelphia gotten better in the past 89? That is an awfully long time to weed out the bad police and change the way that unions operate.
As someone who is independent I look at the job that mayors in NYC, Chicago and Seattle especially are doing and can understand why crime is up. NYC with its bail reform, Chicago with a hypocritical mayor who will let her city burn and citizens get shot by the hundreds each week but not even allow peaceful protests on her own street and Seattle who will allow a portion of her city to be walled off for her "summer of love" experiment are all examples of poor leadership which has hurt their constituents. Not all democratic leadership is bad. Detroit seems to be handling things very well with a democratic mayor and a competent police force. But the majority of the crime people are seeing on their televisions when they turn on their local news each night is happening in liberally run cities. Someone asked how Trump can run on law and order. Like it or not, too many people in the suburbs and many independents, that's the reason.
Crime is down across the country over the past 40 years. I'm only talking about today and what is happening right now in our cities. Crime, especially violent crime is up this year for many reasons. I don't think there is carnage across America and if I implied that I did think that then I apologize. But I do think that violence is an issue. A suburban town councilman actually issued a travel advisory to NYC last month because of the violence. That will have an effect on people.
http://westchester.news12.com/story/42380729/east-fishkill-councilman-issues-travel-advisory-to-nyc-due-to-uptick-in-crime-new-nypd-policiesMy main point is that there is no arguing that police reform needs to happen. But can we also look at the leadership of these places that keep hiring and then failing to train these police officers? Many American cities are burning and more important than the actual physical damage being done, the people are suffering. At some point leadership needs to lead.
Hold on. You can’t just brush off the fact that white supremacists have infiltrated police departments and that police unions are powerful. The whole point is that these two factors undermine Mayors and are part of the cause of the problems. The fact that white supremacists have infiltrated law enforcement is throws out everything we believe about crime and the justice system. It’s completely broken and will never be fixed until these scumbags are rooted out and prosecuted and police unions lose their power. Camden New Jersey is an example of a city that disbanded its police force and rebuilt it from the ground up. Crime rates were cut significantly.
And I still need some sources about crime going up. You can’t just point to this year because it could be an outlier in the middle of a pandemic. This article does a good job of explaining the trends in big cities. Crime is down from last year. Violent crime is down and murder is up. But it’s completely false that Democratic Mayors and Governors are to blame.
But it’s not right to blame this exclusively on Democratic-run cities. Murders are also up in Jacksonville and Miami, both of which are overseen by Republican mayors and a Republican governor. And this is all happening under Trump’s presidency. The trend doesn’t appear to be partisan.
https://www.vox.com/2020/8/3/21334149/murders-crime-shootings-2020-coronavirus-pandemicJust based on demographics it would makes sense that more big cities have Democratic Mayors. If there are a 100 Democratic Mayors of big cities, it would be misleading to point to the 3 cities that are currently experiencing riots as an indicator that Democrats have lost control. But that’s exactly what Trump is doing because he’s trying to scare white people into voting for him. There was no violence in Kenosha on Thursday or Friday night that I’m aware of. Soon this will fade from the media but the protests will continue. Will you still claim they need law and order after weeks and months of peaceful protests?
Remember Wisconsin has a Republican state legislature and Republican State Congress. They could pass state laws for police reform. Trying to blame all of this on Democrats is completely laughable and not factual. Trump has failed on this. Republicans in the Senate have failed on this as well. Only Democrats in Congress have passed police reform. And that’s the only thing that’s going to calm down the protests. Actual change. If the local governments and police unions won’t cooperate it has to come from the state and Federal level. And the only way that will happen is to elect Biden. Ironically if you want peace and law and order giving Democrats power is the only way to do it because the Republicans actively stand in the way of reform. There’s your answer. It’s not simple but substantive solutions rarely are.
