PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Randle is fools gold. Decent player but ..not someone you build around. Too notch 6th man is his ceiling. Small ball 5. Not a player you run your offense through. He should be playing Center but... whatever.

Even with that being true, we could still have a better offense than what we're running now. The people saying we need better players around Randle is just wild to me, we know Kemba & Fournier can score, they suck on defense but they look horrible in our "system" now and it's just back to blaming everyone around Randle and not the stagnation his game brings to the table.

By that logic we should have just traded for Westbrook cause "we know Westbrook can score".

Every team that has actually done anything in the NBA in recent memory (and any memory) has had talent...lots of talent. The Knicks? They have Randle who is a downgraded Carmelo and they have RJ Barrett substituting in for JR SMith.

You made a thread about trading for Russ, I said that would be a disaster, that's what you wanted so don't bring that up now.


I may not know everything, but I know a crap offense centered around 1 player when I see it. And funny you do mention Russ, because that's what Randle is really, a guy getting his numbers at any cost.

[Gravy]

The reason we lost:



A year later and we are still trying to find Randle some help, just like Melo, just like Ewing

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.

To be fair I rewatched all the offensive possessions in the 3rd qtr(because I'm nuts?)

fournier dribble ball of foot passes to RJ floater
kemba drive
kemba to noel alley oop
kemba jumper
rj fast break
randle post up score
Evan drive
randle post up score and 1
kemba drive
kemba jumper
kemba jumper
randle jumper 23 sec on clock
kemba to randle 14 sec, randle to evan 11 sec, evan to randle 7 seconds
randle mini fast break fouled
kemba drive
kemba pass to randle dunk
kemba to RJ, Rj to Kemba, Kemba to Randle 8 sec, randle to kemba, kemba to randle 2 sec
Rj fast break turnover
kemba dribble pass to evan 3 sec
kemba to randle dunk
kemba to IQ jumper
kemba jumper
randle iso to end the qtr

Looks like the overwhelming amount of offense was run through Kemba. Randle had only 1 possession where he ran down the clock to end the quarter and he was extremely efficient. Maybe it was the other quarters where he was hogging the ball and forcing everyone else to shoot with 1 sec left on the clock?

[moocow007]

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.

Randle is the head coach and the guy that decides what offense to run? Rose and Walker CLEARLY cannot play significant minutes or carry a heavy load right now (or possibly ever). Who do you want to run the offense through? IQ? They don't have top tier shot creators. Randle, sad as it is, is their best shot creator. Do you honestly believe that Thibs is being forced to go to Randle all the time by Randle?

You say this like I'm high on Thibs We could run a better offense than we're doing right now, we don't even run PnR between Kemba and our bigs, which is laughable considering he needs a screen to get open now. These excuses are honestly falling on deaf ears now, the Sixers are without Embiid, they've had a 108 offensive rating in the 7 game stretch he's missed which also concides with Tobias Harris missing some games, we have a 103.6 offensive rating over that same stretch. You mean to tell me that we have a worse collection of offensive players than the Sixers do without Harris and Embiid?

Maybe stop letting a guy blitz every goddamn play calling for a post up, or screening to get the ball back. That's on the coach, and on the player.

? These "excuses" are definitely falling on your deaf ears. Your Embiid (and Harris) example does what? The Sixers have looked terrible without their best players. The Knicks? They've looked terrible with their best players. If that doesn't show you that this Knicks team lacks talent I'm not sure what will. Also, the Sixers WILL be getting their best players back. The Knicks? I'm really not sure what you're trying to do here other than to prove what I'm saying about the Knicks needing talent. If you actually believe that this team is better without Randle cause they apparently can just let someone else take Randle's role then I'm not sure what I can tell you.

[DaGawd]

Read on Twitter

oof

Cold


Hard


Faxxx

[moocow007]

The reason we lost:



A year later and we are still trying to find Randle some help, just like Melo, just like Ewing

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.

To be fair I rewatched all the offensive possessions in the 3rd qtr(because I'm nuts?)

fournier dribble ball of foot passes to RJ floater
kemba drive
kemba to noel alley oop
kemba jumper
rj fast break
randle post up score
Evan drive
randle post up score and 1
kemba drive
kemba jumper
kemba jumper
randle jumper 23 sec on clock
kemba to randle 14 sec, randle to evan 11 sec, evan to randle 7 seconds
randle mini fast break fouled
kemba drive
kemba pass to randle dunk
kemba to RJ, Rj to Kemba, Kemba to Randle 8 sec, randle to kemba, kemba to randle 2 sec
Rj fast break turnover
kemba dribble pass to evan 3 sec
kemba to randle dunk
kemba to IQ jumper
kemba jumper
randle iso to end the qtr

Looks like the overwhelming amount of offense was run through Kemba. Randle had only 1 possession where he ran down the clock to end the quarter and he was extremely efficient. Maybe it was the other quarters where he was hogging the ball and forcing everyone else to shoot with 1 sec left on the clock?

Well yeah but Randle isn't Lebron so I say we hang the bastard.

[moocow007]

Even with that being true, we could still have a better offense than what we're running now. The people saying we need better players around Randle is just wild to me, we know Kemba & Fournier can score, they suck on defense but they look horrible in our "system" now and it's just back to blaming everyone around Randle and not the stagnation his game brings to the table.

By that logic we should have just traded for Westbrook cause "we know Westbrook can score".

Every team that has actually done anything in the NBA in recent memory (and any memory) has had talent...lots of talent. The Knicks? They have Randle who is a downgraded Carmelo and they have RJ Barrett substituting in for JR SMith.

You made a thread about trading for Russ, I said that would be a disaster, that's what you wanted so don't bring that up now.


I may not know everything, but I know a crap offense centered around 1 player when I see it. And funny you do mention Russ, because that's what Randle is really, a guy getting his numbers at any cost.

And yet Westbrook would still be better than Walker and Fournier. Westbrook's career win record is better than either Walker or Fournier combined. So something must be working for him. And just because the offense is brutal doesn't mean that the problem is Randle and that can be remedied just "simply" (there's that word again) getting rid of him. The Knicks have no other player that can consistently create shots or score to even be a no.2 option right now (i.e. THE problem). I'm really not sure why you seem to be unable to see that. When you have a team with no shot creators it doesn't make the offense run better if you get rid of your best shot creator regardless of how poorly their best shot creator is doing right now.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The reason we lost:



A year later and we are still trying to find Randle some help, just like Melo, just like Ewing

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.

To be fair I rewatched all the offensive possessions in the 3rd qtr(because I'm nuts?)

fournier dribble ball of foot passes to RJ floater
kemba drive
kemba to noel alley oop
kemba jumper
rj fast break
randle post up score
Evan drive
randle post up score and 1
kemba drive
kemba jumper
kemba jumper
randle jumper 23 sec on clock
kemba to randle 14 sec, randle to evan 11 sec, evan to randle 7 seconds
randle mini fast break fouled
kemba drive
kemba pass to randle dunk
kemba to RJ, Rj to Kemba, Kemba to Randle 8 sec, randle to kemba, kemba to randle 2 sec
Rj fast break turnover
kemba dribble pass to evan 3 sec
kemba to randle dunk
kemba to IQ jumper
kemba jumper
randle iso to end the qtr

Looks like the overwhelming amount of offense was run through Kemba. Randle had only 1 possession where he ran down the clock to end the quarter and he was extremely efficient. Maybe it was the other quarters where he was hogging the ball and forcing everyone else to shoot with 1 sec left on the clock?

"Hey guys, I went and looked at 1/4th of something to counter all the stats from the other 3/4ths you just used that come directly from NBA.com, checkmate"

That's basically your post. Impossible to debate anything with people who get actual data thrown in their face and come back with "Well, I watched". Cool.

[Buttah304]

No offensive system will make up for RJ not being able to convert wide open layups and layups in traffic other good nba players make in their sleep.. dude is just buns right now

Yet we hear every excuse in the book for RJ

-Play him with the 2nd unit
-Limit his shared minutes with Randle
-Let him facilitate and run P&R more
-Get him out in transition

To be fair I actually thought he did a fantastic job on LaVine. There is no doubt in my mind that he can become a very good defensive wing.

But he is so limited athletically and it’s without question going to lower his ceiling. There are countless times where RJ has a step ahead (when he’s going full steam) but the defender is always able to recover because RJ is attempting layups on a very low angle. This gives the opposition plenty of time it either (a) block his shot or (b) alter it.

Teams are also cutting off his left and trying to force him right and he has no mid range pull up to speak of to keep the defense off-balance.

RJ is now 46 of his last 148 over his last 10 games. Everyone wants to write it off as “he’s just missing shots.” But it’s so much deeper than that. He has absolutely no mid range game to speak of. No pull up J in his arsenal. He cannot finish at the hoop. His overall burst is actually worse than Elfrid Payton and he’s had his shot blocked 107 times in his last 89 games. He never seems to post up smaller guards anymore and we know he has no fadeaway to speak of. For a guy whose playing like he has cement blocks in his shoes why not develop a series of head fakes to get to the FT line? He’s so slow with his moves that he actually reminds me of Paul Pierce when he played for Washington in 2014 when he was 36 years old.

Before we know it, RJ will be eligible for a 5 year $181 million dollar extension. Of course he’s not worth that. But it begs the question, if you don’t want to even give RJ north of $25-$30 million per year what exactly is our plan with him.

[Clyde_Style]

Well yeah but Randle isn't Lebron so I say we hang the bastard.

I nominate every Melo/Randle ain’t Lebron statement as the dumbest argument point ever made on RealGM

Come on man, it’s so lame

[Knicksfan1992]

Bulls fan here. I think you all are being too tough on your team, at least based on last night's performance. The reality is that the Bulls are a legitimately good team, and losing to the Bulls in a relatively close game should no longer be something to feel bad about.

Welcome to the RealGM Knicks board... It's a very sad place to be 90% of the time

[god shammgod]

No offensive system will make up for RJ not being able to convert wide open layups and layups in traffic other good nba players make in their sleep.. dude is just buns right now

Yet we hear every excuse in the book for RJ

-Play him with the 2nd unit
-Limit his shared minutes with Randle
-Let him facilitate and run P&R more
-Get him out in transition

To be fair I actually thought he did a fantastic job on LaVine. There is no doubt in my mind that he can become a very good defensive wing.

But he is so limited athletically and it’s without question going to lower his ceiling. There are countless times where RJ has a step ahead (when he’s going full steam) but the defender is always able to recover because RJ is attempting layups on a very low angle. This gives the opposition plenty of time it either (a) block his shot or (b) alter it.

Teams are also cutting off his left and trying to force him right and he has no mid range pull up to speak of to keep the defense off-balance.

RJ is now 46 of his last 148 over his last 10 games. Everyone wants to write it off as “he’s just missing shots.” But it’s so much deeper than that. He has absolutely no mid range game to speak of. No pull up J in his arsenal. He cannot finish at the hoop. His overall burst is actually worse than Elfrid Payton and he’s had his shot blocked 107 times in his last 89 games. He never seems to post up smaller guards anymore and we know he has no fadeaway to speak of. For a guy whose playing like he has cement blocks in his shoes why not develop a series of head fakes to get to the FT line? He’s so slow with his moves that he actually reminds me of Paul Pierce when he played for Washington in 2014 when he was 36 years old.

Before we know it, RJ will be eligible for a 5 year $181 million dollar extension. Of course he’s not worth that. But it begs the question, if you don’t want to even give RJ north of $25-$30 million per year what exactly is our plan with him.

they were mad i called him 3 & d. now that he can't hit 3s or layups, he's actually 1 out of 2 from the line & d.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

By that logic we should have just traded for Westbrook cause "we know Westbrook can score".

Every team that has actually done anything in the NBA in recent memory (and any memory) has had talent...lots of talent. The Knicks? They have Randle who is a downgraded Carmelo and they have RJ Barrett substituting in for JR SMith.

You made a thread about trading for Russ, I said that would be a disaster, that's what you wanted so don't bring that up now.


I may not know everything, but I know a crap offense centered around 1 player when I see it. And funny you do mention Russ, because that's what Randle is really, a guy getting his numbers at any cost.

And yet Westbrook would still be better than Walker and Fournier.

The Lakers have an even worse offense than us. We're not watching the same sport if you think Russ and Randle can play together.

[moocow007]

Well yeah but Randle isn't Lebron so I say we hang the bastard.

I nominate every Melo/Randle ain’t Lebron statement as the dumbest argument point ever made on RealGM

Come on man, it’s so lame

It is but then you tell me what guys are expecting out of Randle when Randle is clearly a one dimensional offensive player that cannot carry a team like the Knicks to anything all by himself. The point of my persistent use of this OBVIOUS exaggeration is to try to get people to not overreact on the extreme other end. It's the same thing when Ewing was here, same thing when Carmelo was here. Rinse repeat. You want to stop nonsense, how about we stop that unrealistic expectations nonsense with our best players (who were never the top 10 best of their time) and who had nowhere near the help the other already better no.1 options the other teams had.
Better?

[god shammgod]

russ is killing my lakers. killing them.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

russ is killing my lakers. killing them.

Russ screening for Randle to get the ball back, Randle screening for Russ to get the ball back, which leads to Russ screening for Randle to get the ball back, which of course results in Randle screening for Russ to get the ball back.


The infinite loop paradox.

[moocow007]

russ is killing my lakers. killing them.

Russ screening for Randle to get the ball back, Randle screening for Russ to get the ball back, which leads to Russ screening for Randle to get the ball back, which of course results in Randle screening for Russ to get the ball back.


The infinite loop paradox.

IQ jacking shots from 50 feet out as the no.1 option. The fantasy island paradox.

[Buttah304]

russ is killing my lakers. killing them.

Can we convince NO that the only way Zion will stay put is to reunite him with RJ in a deal for Ingram and picks.

[robillionaire]

You made a thread about trading for Russ, I said that would be a disaster, that's what you wanted so don't bring that up now.


I may not know everything, but I know a crap offense centered around 1 player when I see it. And funny you do mention Russ, because that's what Randle is really, a guy getting his numbers at any cost.

And yet Westbrook would still be better than Walker and Fournier.

The Lakers have an even worse offense than us. We're not watching the same sport if you think Russ and Randle can play together.

he made it work with Payton and Westbrook is basically a super saiyan version of elfrid payton except he can actually finish at the rim

[NoDopeOnSundays]

russ is killing my lakers. killing them.

Russ screening for Randle to get the ball back, Randle screening for Russ to get the ball back, which leads to Russ screening for Randle to get the ball back, which of course results in Randle screening for Russ to get the ball back.


The infinite loop paradox.

IQ jacking shots from 50 feet out as the no.1 option. The fantasy island paradox.

We got a Russ fan yall.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

And yet Westbrook would still be better than Walker and Fournier.

The Lakers have an even worse offense than us. We're not watching the same sport if you think Russ and Randle can play together.

he made it work with Payton and Westbrook is basically a super saiyan version of elfrid payton except he can actually finish at the rim

Russ is a ball dominant player, Payton isn't.


Russ averages more touches per game than Randle, so he wouldn't be playing off Randle, everyone would be playing off him. So, you want us to be a Russ featured team with Randle as his 2? In 2021? Aight.