PG: Knicks + Denny's Grand Slam The Jazz

[Orange Mamba]

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he doesn't like Randle lol. I think he had a moment in the previous game too

[DOT]

Spoiler:

I think most of us are just apathetic cause while we're young, none of our young guys look like true difference makers

We'll have chances to get that difference maker with our 7 first round picks in the next 3 years/by trading one of the young guys for a difference maker looking for a way off a fumbling team (for example if OKC doesn't turn it around this year I can easily see Shai asking out). We're a young team, patience is key.

Brunson and Randle are who they are. RJ's our best young prospect, but his ceiling isn't super high.

If we're talking young prospects with a high ceiling on the Knicks it's IQ who's easily our best prospect. We saw that yesterday too. He hit the floor and we immediately went on a 11-2 run. He's been doing this for 3 years now, it's not a fluke. His defense, ability to not turn the ball over, and super deep shooting makes him incredibly valuable.

538's RAPTOR put him as a future all star, LEBRON forecasts has him as the 6th best PG under 25 (Ja, Luka, Trae, Shai, Garland are the top 5 in order), RAPM puts him as the most impactful player under 25 outside of Tatum, etc. He's got to touch up his actual shot making ability, but he's a consistent 3 pointer away from being big time.

Cam has a higher ceiling but is much further away from reaching it

Cam was a dub when we got him. The fact that he's looking like he might be serviceable one day is a testament to Thibs' ability to develop young guys.

And it's hard to be excited about young role players especially if we're gonna have to trade most of them to get a star

I like our guys, but I don't love them.

I mean I get you, but having a bunch of good young role players and assets is the best place to be in as a team. We can't all get lucky and win the lottery. Hell the year we had the youngest team in the league and the most losses in the league (aka we tanked) we got jumped by 2 33 win teams in the lottery and that's before they flattened the odds. The fact we have the roster we have now with all the bad luck (and bad drafting - because Obi over Hali will continue to haunt us) is proof that the Front Office for the most part has a solid plan and are doing a good job at executing it.

The 5 best players in the league are:

Giannis (drafted 15th by a 38 win team that didn't tank)
Jokic (drafted 41st by a 30 win team that didn't tank)
Curry (drafted 7th by a 29 win team that didn't tank)
Tatum (drafted 3rd by a 53 win team that didn't tank)
Embiid (drafted 3rd by a 19 win team in their first year of a multi year tank)

Only one of those players has failed to reach a conference finals in their career so far. Having a HOFer is only step one.

I think this is all very optimistic, especially the part about Quick being our best young prospect since while he has made some strides in both finishing inside the arc and playmaking and I'll give you he's our best guard defender in the rotation, that's offset by his regression as a shooter. He's just overall not very good and he's in his 3rd year, not enough progression there

I'd also say there are caveats to those players not being the result of tanking. Like, Giannis wasn't the result of tanking, but the Bucks absolutely tanked for Jabari Parker, he just ended up not working out. Boston didn't tank, but that's because they were able to outsource their tanking to Brooklyn. Warriors didn't tank like the modern definition is, but they absolutely sucked for years until they hit on a bunch of guys, and like you say, Embiid was the result of tanking. Jokic is really the only exception, and he's a massive one at that

My thing has always been, there will be a good player no matter where you are, but the further back you go, the harder it is to find them. Scouting and player development are arguably more important than draft position, but having a higher draft position makes scouting easier.

[thebuzzardman]

I turned it off at halftime. Need my beauty rest lol

Good to see Reddish having 2 good games in a row. He just needs to be consistent, he has time the rest of the year to do so, but I'm still standing by my prior statements until he shows more than just flashes. Also, he's still out of position on defense more often than not, which is a big problem and if he would fix that, he'd be one of the best wing defenders in the league

RJ just needs to be better, plain and simple. I can forgive him having a bad game or 2 every once in a while, but he needs to be consistently good outside of them, which he still really hasn't been. I'm more lenient with him than Cam because he's shown more consistency in his career and he's also like a year younger, but similar situation. Year 4, need to see more

Honestly though, this team is just treading water until we trade for a star. And if we can't by this offseason, the window has passed, and we honestly should just blow it up. We'd be in a fantastic position to do so, since we already have a good amount of excess picks, but we won't. We need top tier talent, and we don't have that. None of our current players are it, and none of them have the potential to be it. And they all kind of don't fit with each other anyways. So I'm kind of disinterested in the team until we make a move, but because Leon kinda sucks, I'm not expecting anything

Oh, and fire Thibs too. He's not the sole problem, but he is a problem.

I agree with pretty much everything. I am hoping this couple game stretch is just because RJ has been sick like a dog. He was wearing a facemask on the bench and breen said yesterday he has been fighting something the last couple of days.

Being mid?

[TKKnicks1]

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he doesn't like Randle lol. I think he had a moment in the previous game too

Randle has had these low BBIQ moments pretty much every game. He just loves having the ball in his hands and dribbling aimlessly. He had 2 guys wide open on that play if he just knew how to make quicker decisions instead he just holds, dribble, holds, until the defense regroups. Just an overall dumb basketball player that doesn't fit the definition of team basketball.

[mpharris36]

I turned it off at halftime. Need my beauty rest lol

Good to see Reddish having 2 good games in a row. He just needs to be consistent, he has time the rest of the year to do so, but I'm still standing by my prior statements until he shows more than just flashes. Also, he's still out of position on defense more often than not, which is a big problem and if he would fix that, he'd be one of the best wing defenders in the league

RJ just needs to be better, plain and simple. I can forgive him having a bad game or 2 every once in a while, but he needs to be consistently good outside of them, which he still really hasn't been. I'm more lenient with him than Cam because he's shown more consistency in his career and he's also like a year younger, but similar situation. Year 4, need to see more

Honestly though, this team is just treading water until we trade for a star. And if we can't by this offseason, the window has passed, and we honestly should just blow it up. We'd be in a fantastic position to do so, since we already have a good amount of excess picks, but we won't. We need top tier talent, and we don't have that. None of our current players are it, and none of them have the potential to be it. And they all kind of don't fit with each other anyways. So I'm kind of disinterested in the team until we make a move, but because Leon kinda sucks, I'm not expecting anything

Oh, and fire Thibs too. He's not the sole problem, but he is a problem.

I agree with pretty much everything. I am hoping this couple game stretch is just because RJ has been sick like a dog. He was wearing a facemask on the bench and breen said yesterday he has been fighting something the last couple of days.

Being mid?

the whole team is mid.

[thebuzzardman]

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he doesn't like Randle lol. I think he had a moment in the previous game too

Randle has had these low BBIQ moments pretty much every game. He just loves having the ball in his hands and dribbling aimlessly. He had 2 guys wide open on that play if he just knew how to make quicker decisions instead he just holds, dribble, holds, until the defense regroups. Just an overall dumb basketball player that doesn't fit the definition of team basketball.

I'd say he has 3 to 5 plays a game where he literally gives the ball away, either on really bad shot selection, forcing a pass, or taking a particularly bad shot. I don't even count low % shots, since every player, especially the good ones, take one or two a game.

This is the issue with Randle. The above, and his come and go attitude towards defense (mostly go, as in go away from the guy he needs to defend).

He gives away too many plays per game and his talent, while good, isn't enough to overcome it.

Look, take the two games the Knicks won against the Pistons. The Pistons have decent young talent. They aren't THAT far from the Knicks, talent wise. But they are young and made a LOT of mistakes in those games, again, just giving up plays by turning the ball over, taking really bad shots etc.

NBA games are won or lost by 5-10 points. With the 3 pointer, it could be 15 - and these are still relatively close games. 2-6 baskets.

He's not the only one, but Randle routinely gives away the margin of victory, by himself, every game.

It's a shame, because he has real talent. I'd say it's the above attributes that make him better suited to be a bench player.

RJ does some of this as well. RJ's issue is more lack of ability, than Randle's is.

[thebuzzardman]

I agree with pretty much everything. I am hoping this couple game stretch is just because RJ has been sick like a dog. He was wearing a facemask on the bench and breen said yesterday he has been fighting something the last couple of days.

Being mid?

the whole team is mid.

Not Brunson.

Well, he might be upper mid.

[3toheadmelo]

The Randle team meeting worked. They pulled together and got the win for him!

And they hate on Randle for being the true leader for this team!

Did Obi call for a meeting nope, he's yelling at coaches. Did RJ?..nope he's telling fans to stfu. Team captain Julius had to do it while he's meditating to ascend to a higher plane of existence

Randle the best role model for our youth

[Clyde Frazier]

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[Spree2Houston]

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he doesn't like Randle lol. I think he had a moment in the previous game too

Cam and RJ are boys. If Cam hates Randle then I’m pretty sure RJ doesn’t like Randle either. I said this during that little interview RJ and Randle did with each other that they’re super fake with each other and don’t like each other . It’s easy to read it between the lines. The only guy who likes Randle on the team is IQ and that’s because he has a simp mentality attaching himself to ‘’star’’ players.

[thebuzzardman]

I like that Randle is meditating but it really isn't working. He should explore the Hindu religion. They have a lot of deities. Maybe he'll find one that teaches smart basketball and not turning the ball over.

हनुमान गेंद को घुमाते नहीं हैं
hanuman gend ko ghumate nahi hain

[thebuzzardman]

[Chanel Bomber]

Chanel should post a long victory essay as he's the real winner over all these unholy forum alliances

Clyde style would take the essay personally and tell him to stop posting thinking everyone will agree with him

[Synciere]

Yeah I'm about to be the outlier again but c'est la vie.

I thought that was one of the best games we've played all year.

Brunson was solid all game. RJ is struggling again but at this point that's to be expected. Not sure how to get him out of this slump. Cam played a really good game. Randle moved the ball all game and didn't hold it creating stagnation in the offense. Quickley finally starting making some threes. We could complain about Obi not getting more minutes but at this point I think it's just a coach's belief he and Randle shouldn't play heavy minutes together. That's got to come to a head at some point after this season I think. That said, they moved the ball, almost to the point of being too unselfish, got out to the three point line on defense even if Utah made some, and the young guys finally showed some life.

Grimes has been hurt and hasn't played well all year so his spot on the bench is secured for now. Same with Fournier, who has been taken out of the two man game with Randle now that we have Brunson so is just a shooter who doesn't always shoot well. Have a seat sir. Thibs is making some adjustments. Not radically, but nip and tucks here and there to get us right, and we just beat an early season surprise team on the road. Should be a good post game thread imo...

[prophet_of_rage]

You'd think it was 2006 as negative as this board is.

How can anyone be this consistently negative about a team that's the 8th youngest team in the league (we're tied for 5th with the Pacers in having the most players under 25 with over 100 minutes despite Grimes' injury limiting his PT), is around .500, will probably have 7 first round picks in the next 3 drafts, has a history of finding steals in the first outside of the lottery, and that finally seems to be giving young players a consistent organizational presence and room to grow as players?

This is literally what the board begged for for the first decade I was on here, now we have a team that's building the right way through the draft and young players and y'all are mad as **** about it. I don't know why everyone is so pressed about blowing up a team built around a 26 year old PG, a 22 year old SG, a 28 year old PF (ok Randle does need to go - but y'all been dragging it for years and hated him the whole time me and Melo were his only defenders when he was signed), and 6 young ass role players with a few vets sprinkled in to teach the young kids how to be professionals.

This is what rebuilding looks like. Y'all be patient. I'd be mad as hell if we blew what we have up to be worse versions of OKC. Detroit is headed to Kings status how about we avoid that outcome.

I think most of us are just apathetic cause while we're young, none of our young guys look like true difference makers

Brunson and Randle are who they are. RJ's our best young prospect, but his ceiling isn't super high. Cam has a higher ceiling but is much further away from reaching it

And it's hard to be excited about young role players especially if we're gonna have to trade most of them to get a star

I like our guys, but I don't love them.

This is what rebuilding looks like. There hasn't been a rebuilding team that turned around overnight.

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[mpharris36]

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[thebuzzardman]

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Ha! I see someone bought themselves a blue check!

[Fat Kat]

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[prophet_of_rage]

He's not overdribbling the ball, doing dumb stuff on offense 5 times a game and not taking revenge shots or drives several times a game that almost always end up in misses or turnovers?

I'd find that more interesting

As soon as Obi starts the fans will be disappointed. He is his own player not the antithesis of Randle. As his own player he is a guy who stands in the corner and can't do much when a body stays in front of him.

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The usual trolls will bitch and want him gone when they realize he is not Amare.

And they didn't want Amar'e.

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[thebuzzardman]

As soon as Obi starts the fans will be disappointed. He is his own player not the antithesis of Randle. As his own player he is a guy who stands in the corner and can't do much when a body stays in front of him.

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The usual trolls will bitch and want him gone when they realize he is not Amare.

And they didn't want Amar'e.

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Amare Melo and Chandler didn't fit together.

Maybe Knick fans would like a roster that vaguely makes sense for once.

It's the Dolan era, so not likely