KAT To The Knicks Part 2

[Knicksfan1992]

kat's 29 in a month but he's gonna pass a lot more now, he's gonna play defense, i hear he's gonna start performing surgery at cornell weill too on his off days

Nobody (in good faith anyways) is arguing that KAT is going to transform his game just because he's joining the Knicks. The point of the trade, from the Knicks perspective, is that KAT's positives and flaws are better fits than Randle's are even if you think they're similar level of players. The added spacing as a big in and of itself is going to make life for Brunson, Hart and OG easier on offense.

I'm not the biggest fan of the trade because I think they overpaid a bit and KAT does have flaws you need to work around but arguing that KAT is a worse basketball fit than Randle is certainly a choice...

this. mfers are looking at things way too black and white. it’s more nuisance to it than meets the eye, probably why you get so many varying views about who won the trade if anyone did

I think this kind of reaction was naturally going to happen when you trade one polarizing player for another. There's going to be wild extremes taken.

Like most trades this is going to be a wait and see type of deal and honestly we won't know if it was truly worth it until the playoffs.

[Context]

Been away for an hour and 6 pages. Knicks get Kessler and/or Tre Murphy yet?

Knick Richards and Trey INCOMING!!!!

that would be so fing sweet

[E-Balla]

Blows my mind that people are still ignoring the fact that we very likely take the celtics 6 or 7 if we just have OG out there. Bottom line is that we traded away all our depth and picks for pieces we didn't really NEED. All we NEEDED was a center replacement for iHart after he left us for OKC and a secondary PG to facilitate things while Brunson rests

We didn't NEED mikal and we definitely didn't NEED kat. We were already a top 3 team in the league as is.

If you applied this logic to the Boston Celtics they likely don't win a title last year because they wouldn't have traded for Jrue and KP because they didn't "need' either of them. They gave up useful depth pieces and assets to get them and were clearly a top 3-5 team when healthy already.

Not saying this is the exact same situation but, you shouldn't avoid improving your talent level just because you may lose some depth in the process.

The Celtics gave up Brogdon, Smart, and Timelord for KP and Jrue. 3 rotation pieces for 2, and those 2 were major upgrades, and they were already so deep they couldn't find minutes for Pritchard, Hauser, and Kornet in the playoffs. Hell even with KP out last year they couldn't find minutes for Tillman, they have a solid 10 maybe 11 (depends on how you feel about Oshae) players worthy of a playoff rotation.

We needed every bit of depth last season, if anything we weren't deep enough. That's why I didn't mind the Bridges trade, getting less deep without majorly upgrading our ceiling isn't the move.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

kat's 29 in a month but he's gonna pass a lot more now, he's gonna play defense, i hear he's gonna start performing surgery at cornell weill too on his off days

I don't know about the defense part, but passing is just something he's always done, nobody is saying he's Jokic, but replacing Randles passing isn't hard especially if they use him like they did IHart.


Touches per game last year

KAT - 53.2 (3.3apg)
Randle - 72.5 (5.0apg)


2022-2023

KAT - 60.7 (4.8apg)
Randle - 69.4 (4.1apg)


Even if you played him at the 4, there's virtually nothing Randle does better when you take into account how much Randle needs the ball and how many possessions he used, he had the ball more than Giannis last year in the frontcourt.

[SelbyCobra]

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[E-Balla]

EDIT: I'll throw Context in too I know that's his guy lol.

why are you throwing me in?

You been a KAT guy since 2015 man lol.

[prophet_of_rage]

Blows my mind that people are still ignoring the fact that we very likely take the celtics 6 or 7 if we just have OG out there. Bottom line is that we traded away all our depth and picks for pieces we didn't really NEED. All we NEEDED was a center replacement for iHart after he left us for OKC and a secondary PG to facilitate things while Brunson rests

We didn't NEED mikal and we definitely didn't NEED kat. We were already a top 3 team in the league as is.

This is my feeling. I think we got too clever and also too bland. You're putting a lot on the shoulders of a 5'11 guy.

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[finestrg]

Anyone else feel like Landry Shamet could turn out to be a very big pickup, provided he's signed to a vet min deal at some point during or after training camp? I'm not saying he's DiVencenzo, but I think this dude could provide a lot of the same things, esp. the outside shooting. Roughly the same size at 6'4". Shamet is a good ball-handler/passer, a very good finisher, a willing defender and a dead eye shooter. Really like his ability to go create and make a shot... I look at this guy as a guy that could be instant offense off the bench at either back court spot along with serving as an additional ball-handler/facilitator should the need arise.

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A couple of other questions --

(1) I heard we will only have the ability of sign one player to a vet minimum deal now, so my guess is that's going to be Shamet. Saw that we cut Morris but was hearing that there might be a way of bringing him back at some point? Does anyone know how?

(2) A little upset that we had to include Kieta Bates-Diop in the KAT trade. I was looking forward to him being a solid cost-effective two-way 3/4 off the bench. Anyway anyone see Minnesota cutting him loose and the Knicks re-signing him? Is that even a plausible scenario?

(3) If we can only sign one player to a vet minimum deal now (say that's Shamet), what kind of players does that leave us to round out the end of the bench? Can someone give examples of what type of players we're looking at?

Thanks in advance!

[E-Balla]

Hot take: This all is stupid fighting and arguing because Brunson is currently a top 5-10 (at worst) player in the league. He can make almost any situation work at a high effin' level.

I love what Randle brought to the Knicks and appreciate him more than most but KAT is a much better big partner to work with Brunson IMO. I think if you're debating that you're moreso looking for a reason to hate the trade rather than giving objective analysis.

I got Brunson 13th next season but I admit I'm expecting Zion, Ja, and Jimmy to be healthy. I had Brunson as the 4th best player last year given how people actually played. He's a few injuries away from being a top 5 player again that's for sure.

But you're correct here about him making any situation work at a high level, that's why I was happy kicking the can until a great move came along. I really wanted Jarrett Allen if you were going to tell me we were 100% moving off Randle. He's soft but outside of that on the floor he's so perfect for Thibs.

[F N 11]

Thibs wants Mikal at point of attack and OG roaming lmao this can be good.

[Context]

EDIT: I'll throw Context in too I know that's his guy lol.

why are you throwing me in?

You been a KAT guy since 2015 man lol.

Oh no I havent! check my post history...I've always called him soft...Not to mention,
if I was a Kat guy - I had plenty of times to trade for him in BAF and I didnt...

I love the Kat trade for us "in context". I saw some of the guys you wanted us to take instead- they dont give us a chance to win it all..
And even if you hate Kat and think he will flop you cant argue that if he fits in and plays to his potential that we DO NO T have a chance bro...
I'll give you the health concerns but disagree with almost everything else

Since you wanted to throw me in nothing but love for you though...

[F N 11]

Hot take: This all is stupid fighting and arguing because Brunson is currently a top 5-10 (at worst) player in the league. He can make almost any situation work at a high effin' level.

I love what Randle brought to the Knicks and appreciate him more than most but KAT is a much better big partner to work with Brunson IMO. I think if you're debating that you're moreso looking for a reason to hate the trade rather than giving objective analysis.

Can’t put it any better than this.

[Capn'O]

Blows my mind that people are still ignoring the fact that we very likely take the celtics 6 or 7 if we just have OG out there. Bottom line is that we traded away all our depth and picks for pieces we didn't really NEED. All we NEEDED was a center replacement for iHart after he left us for OKC and a secondary PG to facilitate things while Brunson rests

We didn't NEED mikal and we definitely didn't NEED kat. We were already a top 3 team in the league as is.

This is my feeling. I think we got too clever and also too bland. You're putting a lot on the shoulders of a 5'11 guy.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

The GogaWagon is bigger than I ever imagined.

[3toheadmelo]

OG doesn’t sound too thrilled about the trade

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[Jadoogar]

As a neutral, I absolutely love this for the Knicks. I've never been a Randle fan and the team proved they can win without him in the playoffs. KAT has his flaws but he's a great fit for the current team, especially with Brunson. The defense and depth will definitely be a problem, especially since guys like OG, KAT and Robinson get hurt so much. But it's easier to find depth on the fringes.

Offensively this team will be fantastic (health permitting). Brunson/KAT pick & roll with bridges and OG in the corners and Hart crashing the boards. Defensively will be a challenge but they have the flexibility of playing Robinson with KAT in the playoffs (again, health permitting).

[The Vo Show]

Anyone else feel like Landry Shamet could turn out to be a very big pickup, provided he's signed to a vet min deal at some point during or after training camp? I'm not saying he's DiVencenzo, but I think this dude could provide a lot of the same things, esp. the outside shooting. Roughly the same size at 6'4". Shamet is a good ball-handler/passer, a very good finisher, a willing defender and a dead eye shooter. Really like his ability to go create and make a shot... I look at this guy as a guy that could be instant offense off the bench at either back court spot along with serving as an additional ball-handler/facilitator should the need arise.

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A couple of other questions --

(1) I heard we will only have the ability of sign one player to a vet minimum deal now, so my guess is that's going to be Shamet. Saw that we cut Morris but was hearing that there might be a way of bringing him back at some point? Does anyone know how?

(2) A little upset that we had to include Kieta Bates-Diop in the KAT trade. I was looking forward to him being a solid cost-effective two-way 3/4 off the bench. Anyway anyone see Minnesota cutting him loose and the Knicks re-signing him? Is that even a plausible scenario?

(3) If we can only sign one player to a vet minimum deal now (say that's Shamet), what kind of players does that leave us to round out the end of the bench? Can someone give examples of what type of players we're looking at?

Thanks in advance!

Always liked Shamet. He had a really good start to his career and then just kinda disappeared. Anyone watched him more than a handful after those Clipper teams know what happened to him?

[KnixinSix]

Been away for an hour and 6 pages. Knicks get Kessler and/or Tre Murphy yet?

Knick Richards and Trey INCOMING!!!!

that would be so fing sweet

I dont have any inside info but just being hopeful based on the teams that keep popping up in the rumors.

[3toheadmelo]

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[Zenzibar]

KP just got 2/60. Randle is making $29 mil. Jrue (I got him ranked 43rd and KAT ranked 39th) is making 33.5 mil a year. Draymond (I got him over KAT) is making $25 mil a year. Bane (I have him over KAT) is making 39.5 mil a year. Derrick White is making 29.5 mil a year. AG is up and can get up to 150/4.

The only players outside the top 30 making over 40 mil a year are Sabonis (he's at least not an injury risk - iirc he got OG's contract 5/212), Pascal (4/189 which was an absurd overpay), Gobert ($40 mil per), and Jamal Murray (4/208 but at least he already got them a ring).

So instead of $30 which is a bargain deal let's say $40. It's still well short of $56.

All I needed to certify you a dummy.

The Warriors were 33-22 with Draymond and 13-14 without him last year. He's still one of the 5 best defensive players in the league that can't be understated.

Draymond's impact is big on the Warriors but place him on any other team and it'll be negligible. You know that.
This knucklehead cost the Warrors 1 title, which is HUGE.

[F N 11]

Brunson for the first time acknowledged he’s the leader of the team

Josh Hart joked about not playing center but mentioned his qualities scoring, rebounding, and passing.we may actually see this lineup with a lot of switching.

OG excited about ability to switch up and down, change assignments each quarter. The possibilities are endless.

Brunson
Mikal
Hart
OG
Towns

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