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PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM

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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#221 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Oct 13, 2024 5:44 pm

Jalen Bluntson wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
Both players came to a losing situation and helped turn it around. Stat didn't have luxury of Dolan staying away during his tenure. Fair to note that Stat came at the end of his career and faded rapidly. Draghing the franchise down. Randle came on his way up and helped get the team to the playoffs. He did that on far less salary as well.

I hated Randle for all the basic logical reasons but, I admit to going overboard with it. I know you agree he turned it around in the end. I won't call either player a hero to your point but, they did help resurrect a pathetic franchise and make us relevant again. This time we have competent people making the decisions and no Dolan lunacy interference. Onwards and upwards!! LFGK!


I simply do not believe that narrative. I think they were both making personally beneficial decisions that rewarded them financially and I do not see them as saviors in any way whatsoever. The idea that it takes courage to come to a franchise down at its heels is a storyline I do not subscribe to. That's fine if people feel this to be the case. It just doesn't fly with me.

I did think Randle last season was the second best regular season version of him we saw, because he played legit defense in the bubble year. He was at his best on offense last season because he committed to bully ball. He is one of the best players in the league at that specifically. So he was good last season, but he played no defense so its a half-hearted compliment at best.

We could have made it work with him this season so I was OK with him being here though I had no interest in him getting a big extension so I really did want him traded to avoid that outcome.

I was one of the only people who genuinely believed KAT was the game plan for two years running and it happened. I was not super gung ho on KAT as Randle's replacement and more of a fatalist who expected it to be happen eventually. And it did happen.

Now that KAT is here I consider him an upgrade in every way and for that I am glad. I think he will give us a more cohesive and dynamic offense and I expect he will give effort on defense whatever his flaws may be. My thesis recently has been having two of the best D wings in the league allows KAT to contribute effectively as a man and help defender without requiring him to be a paint enforcer. Sometimes it will leave us exposed, but overall I think it will result in a superior defense and lots and lots of forced shots and turnovers.

Randle for KAT was a good result.


Narrative? I stated facts. It's not a narrative that both players came to very bad situation and helped turn it around. Obviously of the two, Stat got a gross amount of money but, we went from losing forever to the playoffs and the team achieved some short term success. Undermined by terrible decision making.

Randle came on a fair contract to a team that had nothing. Just more facts. Not a narrative. He helped the team make the playoffs 3 of his five seasons here. Then he was traded for KAT. He was a big part of our turnaround and made this trade possible. Helping the future of the team.

I am not building a statue or selling a fairy tale how they saved the franchise. Just noting that they both came to a trash team that MANY players turned down for a long time. The team improved with them and they helped turn things around. Randle doing more for the good of the team than Stat could ever dream of.


As I said, everyone is entitled to their take on it. You don't see me telling you that you're wrong for feeling that way, do you?

I merely said I don't subscribe to the theme they are special for coming to a downtrodden team. I don't believe they deserve any special commendation for it. That's my take on it. They are not fighting words.
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#222 » by Iron Mantis » Sun Oct 13, 2024 5:46 pm

Just wanted to take a moment to thank Leon for busting a move for my homie KAT so real ones don't have to bear this anymore:


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Randle has the worst playoff PER in NBA History of any player putting up 12 shot attempts.


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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#223 » by Jalen Bluntson » Sun Oct 13, 2024 5:52 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:Salute to the guys giving randle credit for helping reshape this franchise. Real ones.

KAT will hopefully be a damn good replacement and an potentially a big upgrade too.


Leon reshaped the franchise. Randle just came and played for us when the turnaround took place. He helped us get KAT moving forward. He was a big part of our success but, Leon built that success. Randle served his purpose and I won't disregard his role in the turnaround of our team. He also isn't getting his number retired or a statue either.

I am sad that we didn't get to see another run with that January team plus Mikal but, I am over it already. Thanks Julius for your help. Now GTFO and go lose in Minny! :lol:
:beer: RIP mags
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#224 » by Jalen Bluntson » Sun Oct 13, 2024 5:59 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:Just wanted to take a moment to thank Leon for busting a move for my homie KAT so real ones don't have to bear this anymore:


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Randle has the worst playoff PER in NBA History of any player putting up 12 shot attempts.


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*Insert funeral bomb post*
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#225 » by HighRyzer83 » Sun Oct 13, 2024 6:20 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:There were times when Randle completely gave up and gave no effort on defense. Effort on defense. That's really the main reason fans got on him



Randle plays with that diva gene. Those diva players who kinda dog it out there especially on defense. Almost everyone else on a Thibs team played with all out effort on D. He most certainly did not.

I think KAT while he may screw up out there sometimes, lack of effort isn't his issue. AND under Thibs and that Detroit big man coach I think we see the best version of him. Ball movement and spacing will also be 10x better.


Thibs would have clawed Melo's face off if he'd played for him.

Rightfully so
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#226 » by El Poochio » Sun Oct 13, 2024 6:31 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
El Poochio wrote:Randle didnt come here to save the franchise. He came for the money and chance to put up empty stats being the #1 scoring option

Brunson on the other hand left unprecedented amount of money on the table so that Knicks can build a monster team


Yes. Making him or Stat to be heroes for coming to NYC is fiction at its finest. They got paid. Now they are elsewhere. End of story.


Stat at least had a much bigger stature when he came to NY, he was one of the best bigs in the league when healthy and we saw that here as well for a brief stage. Randle was a nobody he didnt do NY any favours "choosing" us lol
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#227 » by El Poochio » Sun Oct 13, 2024 6:37 pm

Jalen Bluntson wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
El Poochio wrote:Randle didnt come here to save the franchise. He came for the money and chance to put up empty stats being the #1 scoring option

Brunson on the other hand left unprecedented amount of money on the table so that Knicks can build a monster team


Yes. Making him or Stat to be heroes for coming to NYC is fiction at its finest. They got paid. Now they are elsewhere. End of story.


Both players came to a losing situation and helped turn it around. Stat didn't have luxury of Dolan staying away during his tenure. Fair to note that Stat came at the end of his career and faded rapidly. Draghing the franchise down. Randle came on his way up and helped get the team to the playoffs. He did that on far less salary as well.

I hated Randle for all the basic logical reasons but, I admit to going overboard with it. I know you agree he turned it around in the end. I won't call either player a hero to your point but, they did help resurrect a pathetic franchise and make us relevant again. This time we have competent people making the decisions and no Dolan lunacy interference. Onwards and upwards!! LFGK!


Investing in Randle type me first players have also dragged the Knicks down for all those years. I thought we could have moved on sooner but I am glad we did eventually before wasting Brunson's prime years. We have winners on the squad now who put the team first and dont bring any toxicity when things dont go their way
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B: J. Green | I. Okoro | J. Hawkins
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#228 » by El Poochio » Sun Oct 13, 2024 6:42 pm

Without Donte there wouldnt be any trade for KAT so he is the one who deserves the actual credit for us getting KAT lol
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#229 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Oct 13, 2024 6:46 pm

El Poochio wrote:Without Donte there wouldnt be any trade for KAT so he is the one who deserves the actual credit for us getting KAT lol


This is true. Mitch couldn't get it done, so we had to sacrifice Donte for the greater good.

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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#230 » by El Poochio » Sun Oct 13, 2024 6:47 pm

DaGawd wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
El Poochio wrote:Randle didnt come here to save the franchise. He came for the money and chance to put up empty stats being the #1 scoring option

Brunson on the other hand left unprecedented amount of money on the table so that Knicks can build a monster team


Yes. Making him or Stat to be heroes for coming to NYC is fiction at its finest. They got paid. Now they are elsewhere. End of story.

still deserve credit for coming and helping turn the tides imo.. as stated a lot of other players turned down dolan’s money


Yeah but lets not rewrite history and say he was a model player or anything, when things didnt go his way his negative attitude dragged the team down massively that is uncharacteristic to any other player
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B: J. Green | I. Okoro | J. Hawkins
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B: K. Murray | D. Jones Jr
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#231 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sun Oct 13, 2024 6:54 pm

This rumor was dumb

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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#232 » by Jalen Bluntson » Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:01 pm

El Poochio wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Yes. Making him or Stat to be heroes for coming to NYC is fiction at its finest. They got paid. Now they are elsewhere. End of story.


Both players came to a losing situation and helped turn it around. Stat didn't have luxury of Dolan staying away during his tenure. Fair to note that Stat came at the end of his career and faded rapidly. Draghing the franchise down. Randle came on his way up and helped get the team to the playoffs. He did that on far less salary as well.

I hated Randle for all the basic logical reasons but, I admit to going overboard with it. I know you agree he turned it around in the end. I won't call either player a hero to your point but, they did help resurrect a pathetic franchise and make us relevant again. This time we have competent people making the decisions and no Dolan lunacy interference. Onwards and upwards!! LFGK!


Investing in Randle type me first players have also dragged the Knicks down for all those years. I thought we could have moved on sooner but I am glad we did eventually before wasting Brunson's prime years. We have winners on the squad now who put the team first and dont bring any toxicity when things dont go their way


And? He helped the team in his time here and landed us a star in his prime on his way out. That's all. Good bye Julius. Thanks for the help,
:beer: RIP mags
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#233 » by Jalen Bluntson » Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:07 pm

El Poochio wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Yes. Making him or Stat to be heroes for coming to NYC is fiction at its finest. They got paid. Now they are elsewhere. End of story.

still deserve credit for coming and helping turn the tides imo.. as stated a lot of other players turned down dolan’s money


Yeah but lets not rewrite history and say he was a model player or anything, when things didnt go his way his negative attitude dragged the team down massively that is uncharacteristic to any other player


Who is rewriting history?
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#234 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:09 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:Just wanted to take a moment to thank Leon for busting a move for my homie KAT so real ones don't have to bear this anymore:


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Randle has the worst playoff PER in NBA History of any player putting up 12 shot attempts.


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Looking at the bigs in the West and how a lot of the playoff teams can go super big with a shot blocker at the 4....his Knicks playoff numbers may end up being career highs.
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#235 » by F N 11 » Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:14 pm

Don’t care about Donte and Randle can’t wait to see my Knicks. Backup roles are a battle.

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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#236 » by El Poochio » Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:20 pm

Jalen Bluntson wrote:
El Poochio wrote:
DaGawd wrote:still deserve credit for coming and helping turn the tides imo.. as stated a lot of other players turned down dolan’s money


Yeah but lets not rewrite history and say he was a model player or anything, when things didnt go his way his negative attitude dragged the team down massively that is uncharacteristic to any other player


Who is rewriting history?


Lot of posters here, maybe you havent been reading or those werent following Knicks close enough and were just looking at standings and scores so I wanted to remind them why Randle wasnt universally appreciated. Personally I am glad he is gone so my team can play a brand of basketball that is more to my liking
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#237 » by Chanel Bomber » Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:21 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
RJ was critized for that, was benched at times, and rightfully so. Still doesnt change that Randles effort on the court was waaaay below what it should have been at many times, and thats when fans got on him about it.

Both guys are gone. Who even cares?

Both guys showed lackluster effort on defense, yet Randle was demonized for it, while RJ remained (until the last couple months of his tenure I guess) the apple of the fanbase's eye. I'm not saying this to absolve Randle of his share of responsibility, and you're right to hold him accountable for his lack of defensive effort, just pointing out that it wasn't just about defense. There was more to it.


A lot of players have been boo'd in NY. Randle is not the first, last or best player to be boo'd.

Younger players we draft just get more lee-way, and rightfully so, as there is a period of development that needs to happen over vets we sign as free agents. But even with RJ, there has been plenty of critiscm directed his way. There has probably been more negative things written about RJ over the past few years then any other Knick so its not like he received a pass.

But yea, Randle was boo'd more. Partly due to being the vet, partly for the lack of effort and body language...some critiscm deserved, maybe over the top at times. But that does come with the territory of playing in NY. Randle had some really awful stretches and was boo'd for it. I dont think its really anything too deep. Fans arent gonna sit quitely and golf clap when the team is mediocre and players are loafing it. That isnt going to happen in NY. Someone is going to get boo'd.

In the end, Knicks have a really good team and great foundation.

Macri was pressured into not criticizing RJ on his own podcast by some of his collaborators. The mainstream voice within the fanbase was always in favor of defending RJ. At least until his last couple months here, when the wind started to turn a bit. The MSG crowd never "held him accountable" by booing him like they supposedly did with Randle. So if defense was the crux of the issue, the "accountability" they received for it was vastly different, despite both lacking with their defensive effort. Which is why I'm saying it goes much deeper than just defense.

You're right that the Knicks have a promising outlook now and I'm personally happier with OG and KAT than with RJ and Randle. Beyond the analytics, I thought they were terribly boring to watch, and frankly even hard to watch.
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#238 » by Jalen Bluntson » Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:25 pm

El Poochio wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
El Poochio wrote:
Yeah but lets not rewrite history and say he was a model player or anything, when things didnt go his way his negative attitude dragged the team down massively that is uncharacteristic to any other player


Who is rewriting history?


Lot of posters here, maybe you havent been reading or those werent following Knicks close enough and were just looking at standings and scores so I wanted to remind them why Randle wasnt universally appreciated. Personally I am glad he is gone so my team can play a brand of basketball that is more to my liking


Oh. So a blanket statement and not involving the current discussion. Gotcha. I'm over him. Sucks losing Donte. Story is over for Randle here and I am glad we got a better player/fit for him. Never had a clue what his value would net in a trade. We did good. Bye Julius.
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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#239 » by Knick4Real » Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:25 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:This rumor was dumb

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Good for him setting the record (and the rumors) straight.

He deserves a standing ovation tonight from the fans!!


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Re: PS Game 3: Minnesota @ MSG on Sunday, 10/13 @ 6 PM 

Post#240 » by spree2kawhi » Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:26 pm

HighRyzer83 wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:

Randle plays with that diva gene. Those diva players who kinda dog it out there especially on defense. Almost everyone else on a Thibs team played with all out effort on D. He most certainly did not.

I think KAT while he may screw up out there sometimes, lack of effort isn't his issue. AND under Thibs and that Detroit big man coach I think we see the best version of him. Ball movement and spacing will also be 10x better.


Thibs would have clawed Melo's face off if he'd played for him.

Rightfully so

I’m not so sure. Melo was the most talented player on the Knicks in the last 40-50 years. It’s a shame. Without the injuries to Stoudamire, I think they might have gone all the way.

With that said, this team has the chance to become the best Knicks team since the last championship. I’m glad people here now understand the player that Towns is: a willing and pretty good, unselfish passer, an incredibly efficient offensive player, an all-time shooter, a big body and a pretty laid-back dude. It’s a match.

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