The Minutes Police would like to welcome our newest officer - Mikal Bridges

[Clyde_Style]

If Atkinson was our coach, I can see the world where the starters averaged 33-34mpg, Pac and especially Huk would have been playing consistent 8-12mpg, Kolek 7-9mpg, we'd be playing 5 off the bench, 9-11 players every night

We'd be running marathon, instead of sprint in a long ass ("marathon") season

And the craziest thing?

I think we'd be at 54-56 wins now, much ahead of our sprint 42 wins version of ourselves

Yep.

Kenny's biggest strength aside from Xs and Os and knowing how to keep his players fresh is his ability to develop talent. Kolek absolutely would be getting opportunities under him. This is the same guy that coached up D'Angelo Russell to an all star berth, developed Spencer Dinwiddie, Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen, and extended Brook Lopez's career. Both Dinwiddie and Lopez would have been out of the league right now if not for him.

I can only imagine how much work he'd be putting in with Kolek, Huk, Dadiet and I doubt Sims would have been traded.

Kolek in Atkinson's hands would be incredible. I pretty much hate Thibs at this point solely due to him burying Kolek like he has

[Clyde_Style]

Any Raw Dog sightings since Mikal went nuclear?

[nykballa2k4]

I posted this in another forum, but am going to post it here too....

Can we PLEASE stop pretending he doesn't even it out?

Watch on YouTube

From about 4:15-

Watch on YouTube

So we are believing Bridges and believing Brunson and Hart are liars. I am keeping in mind that at the time of their respective comments Brunson has his extension coming up (just like Bridges) and I think Hart just signed his.





https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5361403/2024/03/22/tom-thibodeau-knicks-donte-divincenzo/


https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nba/nba-confidential-thibs-method-successful-or-shortsighted

Should have left this BS in the other forum. What Thibs does has factually caused injuries and lost us games. The end.

If you could please show me the hard factual proof, it would be much appreciated. It seems that the winners and professionals don't complain and losers and drama queens do.

The problem is 3-fold

1) it does wear down the players more. It's simple math. If injuries occur at a rate of x per minute, you play more minutes, you get hurt more often.

2) to compensate for fatigue, that means practices have to be lighter -- that means that the players deeper on the depth chart don't get chances to play in games OR in practice because they never see real competition. G-league is almost like China, guys scoring 30 points easy, but can't make it to the NBA.

3) you can see our data by quarters, we tend to be a better team q1-3, q4 we are tired and are often out performed. Not only does the high playing time cause our players to struggle late, but it also increases the chances of over exertion injuries. If you have ever played sports, you would know that anyone over age 25 needs to be weary of playing "one game too many" and getting hurt.

So yeah, there is loads of evidence and common sense. When you achilles snaps, it's not going to have a signature on it saying "Thibs was here" but there are injuries commonly associated with overuse, and these are injuries that we have seen plenty of.

[Enzo954]

If Atkinson was our coach, I can see the world where the starters averaged 33-34mpg, Pac and especially Huk would have been playing consistent 8-12mpg, Kolek 7-9mpg, we'd be playing 5 off the bench, 9-11 players every night

We'd be running marathon, instead of sprint in a long ass ("marathon") season

And the craziest thing?

I think we'd be at 54-56 wins now, much ahead of our sprint 42 wins version of ourselves

Yep.

Kenny's biggest strength aside from Xs and Os and knowing how to keep his players fresh is his ability to develop talent. Kolek absolutely would be getting opportunities under him. This is the same guy that coached up D'Angelo Russell to an all star berth, developed Spencer Dinwiddie, Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen, and extended Brook Lopez's career. Both Dinwiddie and Lopez would have been out of the league right now if not for him.

I can only imagine how much work he'd be putting in with Kolek, Huk, Dadiet and I doubt Sims would have been traded.

Kolek in Atkinson's hands would be incredible. I pretty much hate Thibs at this point solely due to him burying Kolek like he has

Kolek is a gifted floor general. I fear that his time here will just be wasted due to Thibs.

[HopelessKnick]

Should have left this BS in the other forum. What Thibs does has factually caused injuries and lost us games. The end.

If you could please show me the hard factual proof, it would be much appreciated. It seems that the winners and professionals don't complain and losers and drama queens do.

The problem is 3-fold

1) it does wear down the players more. It's simple math. If injuries occur at a rate of x per minute, you play more minutes, you get hurt more often.

2) to compensate for fatigue, that means practices have to be lighter -- that means that the players deeper on the depth chart don't get chances to play in games OR in practice because they never see real competition. G-league is almost like China, guys scoring 30 points easy, but can't make it to the NBA.

3) you can see our data by quarters, we tend to be a better team q1-3, q4 we are tired and are often out performed. Not only does the high playing time cause our players to struggle late, but it also increases the chances of over exertion injuries. If you have ever played sports, you would know that anyone over age 25 needs to be weary of playing "one game too many" and getting hurt.

So yeah, there is loads of evidence and common sense. When you achilles snaps, it's not going to have a signature on it saying "Thibs was here" but there are injuries commonly associated with overuse, and these are injuries that we have seen plenty of.

And it's baffling really that people refuse to see that. Like it is basic, simple common sense.

[Clyde_Style]

Yep.

Kenny's biggest strength aside from Xs and Os and knowing how to keep his players fresh is his ability to develop talent. Kolek absolutely would be getting opportunities under him. This is the same guy that coached up D'Angelo Russell to an all star berth, developed Spencer Dinwiddie, Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen, and extended Brook Lopez's career. Both Dinwiddie and Lopez would have been out of the league right now if not for him.

I can only imagine how much work he'd be putting in with Kolek, Huk, Dadiet and I doubt Sims would have been traded.

Kolek in Atkinson's hands would be incredible. I pretty much hate Thibs at this point solely due to him burying Kolek like he has

Kolek is a gifted floor general. I fear that his time here will just be wasted due to Thibs.

The FO will seriously regret it if they don't replace Thibs this off-season. I will not watch the Knicks after this season if the Orc is still the coach. I've invested in this season already and I'll stick it out, but I'm so done with Thibs and his BS.

[GettinitDone]

Regarding Thibs saying opposing wings like Tatum, Brown, LeBron playing 40 mins then more likely OG and Mikal play 40 mins too IS SUCH BS

OKC plays Jalen Williams 32.6mpg (ranked 61st in mpg) and Lu Dort 29.2mpg (111th), Daignault's never felt the need to play them 40 mins because the Tatums and the LeBrons are playing 40 mins and JDub and Dort have been arguably BETTER DEFENDERS than Mikal and OG ! Shai, a very good defender in his own right and MVP favorite, is at 34.3mpg (33rd), so it's proven more minutes does NOT necessarily mean more productivity which Thibs obviously can't see... Daignault ain't having JDub, Dort, Shai on the floor for 40 mins chasing opponents star wings because he lacks imagination how to make the team defend (hold opponents to 107.2 ppg/ 2nd ranked, and 43.6 FG%/ 1st ranked) when those three guys sit

Cavs' best defender Evan Mobley is at 30.3mpg (97th) Kenny ain't having him on the floor for 40 mins because he lacks imagination how to utilize other players not named Mobley to protect the paint when he sits

FIRE THIBS !!!!

[joec32033]

Should have left this BS in the other forum. What Thibs does has factually caused injuries and lost us games. The end.

If you could please show me the hard factual proof, it would be much appreciated. It seems that the winners and professionals don't complain and losers and drama queens do.

The problem is 3-fold

1) it does wear down the players more. It's simple math. If injuries occur at a rate of x per minute, you play more minutes, you get hurt more often.

2) to compensate for fatigue, that means practices have to be lighter -- that means that the players deeper on the depth chart don't get chances to play in games OR in practice because they never see real competition. G-league is almost like China, guys scoring 30 points easy, but can't make it to the NBA.

3) you can see our data by quarters, we tend to be a better team q1-3, q4 we are tired and are often out performed. Not only does the high playing time cause our players to struggle late, but it also increases the chances of over exertion injuries. If you have ever played sports, you would know that anyone over age 25 needs to be weary of playing "one game too many" and getting hurt.

So yeah, there is loads of evidence and common sense. When you achilles snaps, it's not going to have a signature on it saying "Thibs was here" but there are injuries commonly associated with overuse, and these are injuries that we have seen plenty of.

Durant tore his achilles in a season he played 34 minutes.

Cousins tore his achilles averaging 36.2

Billiups tore his averaging 30.4

Wes Mathews tore his at 33.7

Elton Brand during a workout in 2007 (over the summer)

Mehmet Okur tore his at 29.7

Anderson Varejo at 24.5

Symptoms and Causes
What causes an abdominal muscle strain (pulled stomach muscle)?
A pulled stomach muscle is often an overuse injury. Repetitive movements, usually in sports or other physical activity, cause the muscle to stretch or tear.

Other causes include:

Accidents, such as falls or motor vehicle wrecks.
Chronic coughing or sneezing.
Intense or excessive exercise.
Lifting heavy objects.
Poor form when playing sports or exercising.
Sudden twisting.
Who is at risk for getting an abdominal muscle strain (pulled stomach muscle)?
Anyone can pull a stomach muscle, but certain activities increase your risk. People who play sports like football and tennis that require a lot of reaching and side-to-side trunk movements are more likely to develop this problem.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21807-abdominal-muscle-strain

More minutes do increase your chance of getting hurt. A player playing one minute has more of a chance than a guy who doesn't get off the bench. Admitedly an extreme question here but should they not play their best players until the playoffs?

In an NBA game, teams typically score around 25 points per quarter on average.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Average Points per Quarter: The average points scored per quarter in an NBA game is roughly 25 points.
First Quarter: Teams tend to score around 27-28 points on average in the first quarter.
Second Quarter: The second quarter sees teams score around 25-27 points on average.
Third Quarter: Teams typically score around 27-28 points in the third quarter.
Fourth Quarter: The fourth quarter sees teams score around 25-27 points on average.

Knicks:
28
30
30
27
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/1st-quarter-points-per-game

Seems pretty normal for all teams to get tired and the Knicks are on the high end of the average stats.

[joec32033]

Should have left this BS in the other forum. What Thibs does has factually caused injuries and lost us games. The end.

If you could please show me the hard factual proof, it would be much appreciated. It seems that the winners and professionals don't complain and losers and drama queens do.

KAT getting hurt in the Chicago game. Hart shredding his abdomen in the playoffs last year and currently playing on a bum knee. Mitch goong back in and playing on a broken ankle. The list goes on. Thanks for playing. Bye.

I'm not done playing. I just quoted the latest response. Easier practices to make up for heavy game minutes seems fair. Like I said after 2005 NBA minutes nosedived.

[nykballa2k4]

If you could please show me the hard factual proof, it would be much appreciated. It seems that the winners and professionals don't complain and losers and drama queens do.

The problem is 3-fold

1) it does wear down the players more. It's simple math. If injuries occur at a rate of x per minute, you play more minutes, you get hurt more often.

2) to compensate for fatigue, that means practices have to be lighter -- that means that the players deeper on the depth chart don't get chances to play in games OR in practice because they never see real competition. G-league is almost like China, guys scoring 30 points easy, but can't make it to the NBA.

3) you can see our data by quarters, we tend to be a better team q1-3, q4 we are tired and are often out performed. Not only does the high playing time cause our players to struggle late, but it also increases the chances of over exertion injuries. If you have ever played sports, you would know that anyone over age 25 needs to be weary of playing "one game too many" and getting hurt.

So yeah, there is loads of evidence and common sense. When you achilles snaps, it's not going to have a signature on it saying "Thibs was here" but there are injuries commonly associated with overuse, and these are injuries that we have seen plenty of.

Durant tore his achilles in a season he played 34 minutes.

Cousins tore his achilles averaging 36.2

Billiups tore his averaging 30.4

Wes Mathews tore his at 33.7

Elton Brand during a workout in 2007 (over the summer)

Mehmet Okur tore his at 29.7

Anderson Varejo at 24.5

Symptoms and Causes
What causes an abdominal muscle strain (pulled stomach muscle)?
A pulled stomach muscle is often an overuse injury. Repetitive movements, usually in sports or other physical activity, cause the muscle to stretch or tear.

Other causes include:

Accidents, such as falls or motor vehicle wrecks.
Chronic coughing or sneezing.
Intense or excessive exercise.
Lifting heavy objects.
Poor form when playing sports or exercising.
Sudden twisting.
Who is at risk for getting an abdominal muscle strain (pulled stomach muscle)?
Anyone can pull a stomach muscle, but certain activities increase your risk. People who play sports like football and tennis that require a lot of reaching and side-to-side trunk movements are more likely to develop this problem.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21807-abdominal-muscle-strain

More minutes do increase your chance of getting hurt. A player playing one minute has more of a chance than a guy who doesn't get off the bench. Admitedly an extreme question here but should they not play their best players until the playoffs?

In an NBA game, teams typically score around 25 points per quarter on average.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Average Points per Quarter: The average points scored per quarter in an NBA game is roughly 25 points.
First Quarter: Teams tend to score around 27-28 points on average in the first quarter.
Second Quarter: The second quarter sees teams score around 25-27 points on average.
Third Quarter: Teams typically score around 27-28 points in the third quarter.
Fourth Quarter: The fourth quarter sees teams score around 25-27 points on average.

Knicks:
28
30
30
27
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/1st-quarter-points-per-game

Seems pretty normal for all teams to get tired and the Knicks are on the high end of the average stats.

point 1 - Yes, players get hurt, they get hurt on other teams, they get hurt in other ways, the point is about probability and obvious over-use. Durant is a great example because he was playing at a time where he should have been shut down, medical team failed him.

point 2 - This is the question with resting player, rest v rust before the playoffs, whether to play you team in pre-season or not, load management. Obviously you can bubble wrap a player all season, but if you want them to play at all, they need to be brought back to game speed, have conditioning, etc There is a balance between the load management people and the Thibs 40 mins per game approach. That is likely optimial where we get the benefit of being our most competitive, we may lose 2-3 games over a season due to this, but we will have developed the end of our bench, we will have players on the team that have increased confidence, feel like they are actually part of the team, and our best players will have that last gear ready for the playoffs.

Most good coaches are coaching for the playoffs, they have plays/strategies etc that are only to be unlocked for the right time. Think Eagles/Pats "Philly Special"

We are not going to have anything in the chamber.

point 3 - So you have the offensive raw production. How about defense? How about percents?
Also our numbers will have a bit of a skew because we don't use garbage time. What difference that makes? idk, but it's where we are an outlier

[Jalen Bluntson]

If you could please show me the hard factual proof, it would be much appreciated. It seems that the winners and professionals don't complain and losers and drama queens do.

KAT getting hurt in the Chicago game. Hart shredding his abdomen in the playoffs last year and currently playing on a bum knee. Mitch goong back in and playing on a broken ankle. The list goes on. Thanks for playing. Bye.

I'm not done playing. I just quoted the latest response. Easier practices to make up for heavy game minutes seems fair. Like I said after 2005 NBA minutes nosedived.

KAT getting hurt playing when he shouldn't have been on the court. Hart did not tear his abdomen skateboarding on his day off. He was playing too many minutes. Mitch was put back in a game where he already had a broken ankle. These are not accidents. These are overuse injuries and poor judgement from the HC. It's just a coincidence that the team has all five starters in the top 50 of minutes played and we are getting injuries EVERY YEAR and we limp into the ASB. Then the wheels fall off in the playoffs. These are things that actually happened multiple times to Thibs coached teams. They have happened each of the last three seasons as a matter of fact. OG is another non contact injury while playing more minutes than he should have been as well.

You should stop playing because you haven't addressed the main fact. Our players are playing more minutes than most of the league. Playing more minutes than they have since they were rookies. None of the top teams come close to the Knicks in minutes. Not one. The players/media/fans are all talking about it. It's real. Talking about 6-7 random players getting a specific injury doesn't prove anything to the contrary at all. We struggle to get 50 minutes for the bench most nights. That's a full 20-30 minutes less than the next closest team. It's a problem.

[thebuzzardman]

Mikal doing an excellent job as focal point of the offense now that selfish Brunson is injured due to bad karma

[ctorres]

this is from 3 days ago but just came up on my youtube feed

Watch on YouTube

[joec32033]

KAT getting hurt in the Chicago game. Hart shredding his abdomen in the playoffs last year and currently playing on a bum knee. Mitch goong back in and playing on a broken ankle. The list goes on. Thanks for playing. Bye.

I'm not done playing. I just quoted the latest response. Easier practices to make up for heavy game minutes seems fair. Like I said after 2005 NBA minutes nosedived.

KAT getting hurt playing when he shouldn't have been on the court. Hart did not tear his abdomen skateboarding on his day off. He was playing too many minutes. Mitch was put back in a game where he already had a broken ankle. These are not accidents. These are overuse injuries and poor judgement from the HC. It's just a coincidence that the team has all five starters in the top 50 of minutes played and we are getting injuries EVERY YEAR and we limp into the ASB. Then the wheels fall off in the playoffs. These are things that actually happened multiple times to Thibs coached teams. They have happened each of the last three seasons as a matter of fact. OG is another non contact injury while playing more minutes than he should have been as well.

You should stop playing because you haven't addressed the main fact. Our players are playing more minutes than most of the league. Playing more minutes than they have since they were rookies. None of the top teams come close to the Knicks in minutes. Not one. The players/media/fans are all talking about it. It's real. Talking about 6-7 random players getting a specific injury doesn't prove anything to the contrary at all. We struggle to get 50 minutes for the bench most nights. That's a full 20-30 minutes less than the next closest team. It's a problem.

I already addressed in 2005 things changed. I did the research. Maybe you should too. Is it a lot of minutes in relation to minute distributions currently? Yes. But players used to play 38 minutes regularly and it wasn't an issue back then. Now it is? I'm sorry I already posted 2 videos of both Kobe and Jordan saying they are payed to play whatever minutes they play and it is the players responsibility to make sure they are up to the task. OKC has a low minutes distribution because it is one of the deeper teams in the league. The Knicks aren't built that way. Personally I believe if they never got rid of Divincenzo this wouldn't even be a problem. I thought at the begining of the season they were deep enough. They aren't. If rookies Dadiet or Kolek or Hukporti are expected to have that much of an impact on a team with championship aspirations, it is NOT a championship ready team. That's the honest truth.

[joec32033]

The problem is 3-fold

1) it does wear down the players more. It's simple math. If injuries occur at a rate of x per minute, you play more minutes, you get hurt more often.

2) to compensate for fatigue, that means practices have to be lighter -- that means that the players deeper on the depth chart don't get chances to play in games OR in practice because they never see real competition. G-league is almost like China, guys scoring 30 points easy, but can't make it to the NBA.

3) you can see our data by quarters, we tend to be a better team q1-3, q4 we are tired and are often out performed. Not only does the high playing time cause our players to struggle late, but it also increases the chances of over exertion injuries. If you have ever played sports, you would know that anyone over age 25 needs to be weary of playing "one game too many" and getting hurt.

So yeah, there is loads of evidence and common sense. When you achilles snaps, it's not going to have a signature on it saying "Thibs was here" but there are injuries commonly associated with overuse, and these are injuries that we have seen plenty of.

Durant tore his achilles in a season he played 34 minutes.

Cousins tore his achilles averaging 36.2

Billiups tore his averaging 30.4

Wes Mathews tore his at 33.7

Elton Brand during a workout in 2007 (over the summer)

Mehmet Okur tore his at 29.7

Anderson Varejo at 24.5

Symptoms and Causes
What causes an abdominal muscle strain (pulled stomach muscle)?
A pulled stomach muscle is often an overuse injury. Repetitive movements, usually in sports or other physical activity, cause the muscle to stretch or tear.

Other causes include:

Accidents, such as falls or motor vehicle wrecks.
Chronic coughing or sneezing.
Intense or excessive exercise.
Lifting heavy objects.
Poor form when playing sports or exercising.
Sudden twisting.
Who is at risk for getting an abdominal muscle strain (pulled stomach muscle)?
Anyone can pull a stomach muscle, but certain activities increase your risk. People who play sports like football and tennis that require a lot of reaching and side-to-side trunk movements are more likely to develop this problem.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21807-abdominal-muscle-strain

More minutes do increase your chance of getting hurt. A player playing one minute has more of a chance than a guy who doesn't get off the bench. Admitedly an extreme question here but should they not play their best players until the playoffs?

In an NBA game, teams typically score around 25 points per quarter on average.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Average Points per Quarter: The average points scored per quarter in an NBA game is roughly 25 points.
First Quarter: Teams tend to score around 27-28 points on average in the first quarter.
Second Quarter: The second quarter sees teams score around 25-27 points on average.
Third Quarter: Teams typically score around 27-28 points in the third quarter.
Fourth Quarter: The fourth quarter sees teams score around 25-27 points on average.

Knicks:
28
30
30
27
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/1st-quarter-points-per-game

Seems pretty normal for all teams to get tired and the Knicks are on the high end of the average stats.

point 1 - Yes, players get hurt, they get hurt on other teams, they get hurt in other ways, the point is about probability and obvious over-use. Durant is a great example because he was playing at a time where he should have been shut down, medical team failed him.

point 2 - This is the question with resting player, rest v rust before the playoffs, whether to play you team in pre-season or not, load management. Obviously you can bubble wrap a player all season, but if you want them to play at all, they need to be brought back to game speed, have conditioning, etc There is a balance between the load management people and the Thibs 40 mins per game approach. That is likely optimial where we get the benefit of being our most competitive, we may lose 2-3 games over a season due to this, but we will have developed the end of our bench, we will have players on the team that have increased confidence, feel like they are actually part of the team, and our best players will have that last gear ready for the playoffs.

Most good coaches are coaching for the playoffs, they have plays/strategies etc that are only to be unlocked for the right time. Think Eagles/Pats "Philly Special"

We are not going to have anything in the chamber.

point 3 - So you have the offensive raw production. How about defense? How about percents?
Also our numbers will have a bit of a skew because we don't use garbage time. What difference that makes? idk, but it's where we are an outlier

Off the bat I had issues finding defensive stats by quarter but I'm gonna keep trying.

You want to see or present other stars feel free to find and present them. I did. But I will look for you when I get a chance.

Are you willing to sacrifice wins for minutes? If the starters don't get the minutes they're getting, the record is worse. Are you prepared to be the 8th seed or the seven seed instead of the second or third seed because you want to get rookies to get minutes that may not even factor into the playoffs?

The point is if the minutes weren't the way they were last year the Knicks probably don't have the run that they had. Same hold true this year. Like I said in the other post, if rookies are having that much of an impact in a "championship" season you do not have a championship team.

[nykballa2k4]

Durant tore his achilles in a season he played 34 minutes.

Cousins tore his achilles averaging 36.2

Billiups tore his averaging 30.4

Wes Mathews tore his at 33.7

Elton Brand during a workout in 2007 (over the summer)

Mehmet Okur tore his at 29.7

Anderson Varejo at 24.5



More minutes do increase your chance of getting hurt. A player playing one minute has more of a chance than a guy who doesn't get off the bench. Admitedly an extreme question here but should they not play their best players until the playoffs?



Knicks:
28
30
30
27
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/1st-quarter-points-per-game

Seems pretty normal for all teams to get tired and the Knicks are on the high end of the average stats.

point 1 - Yes, players get hurt, they get hurt on other teams, they get hurt in other ways, the point is about probability and obvious over-use. Durant is a great example because he was playing at a time where he should have been shut down, medical team failed him.

point 2 - This is the question with resting player, rest v rust before the playoffs, whether to play you team in pre-season or not, load management. Obviously you can bubble wrap a player all season, but if you want them to play at all, they need to be brought back to game speed, have conditioning, etc There is a balance between the load management people and the Thibs 40 mins per game approach. That is likely optimial where we get the benefit of being our most competitive, we may lose 2-3 games over a season due to this, but we will have developed the end of our bench, we will have players on the team that have increased confidence, feel like they are actually part of the team, and our best players will have that last gear ready for the playoffs.

Most good coaches are coaching for the playoffs, they have plays/strategies etc that are only to be unlocked for the right time. Think Eagles/Pats "Philly Special"

We are not going to have anything in the chamber.

point 3 - So you have the offensive raw production. How about defense? How about percents?
Also our numbers will have a bit of a skew because we don't use garbage time. What difference that makes? idk, but it's where we are an outlier

Off the bat I had issues finding defensive stats by quarter but I'm gonna keep trying.

You want to see or present other stars feel free to find and present them. I did. But I will look for you when I get a chance.

Are you willing to sacrifice wins for minutes? If the starters don't get the minutes they're getting, the record is worse. Are you prepared to be the 8th seed or the seven seed instead of the second or third seed because you want to get rookies to get minutes that may not even factor into the playoffs?

The point is if the minutes weren't the way they were last year the Knicks probably don't have the run that they had. Same hold true this year. Like I said in the other post, if rookies are having that much of an impact in a "championship" season you do not have a championship team.

I am willing to sacrifice 3 wins and a couple seeds (we would probably be 4-5 seed this year) to ease the load on the starters. It would give us a better chance in the playoffs.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I'm not done playing. I just quoted the latest response. Easier practices to make up for heavy game minutes seems fair. Like I said after 2005 NBA minutes nosedived.

KAT getting hurt playing when he shouldn't have been on the court. Hart did not tear his abdomen skateboarding on his day off. He was playing too many minutes. Mitch was put back in a game where he already had a broken ankle. These are not accidents. These are overuse injuries and poor judgement from the HC. It's just a coincidence that the team has all five starters in the top 50 of minutes played and we are getting injuries EVERY YEAR and we limp into the ASB. Then the wheels fall off in the playoffs. These are things that actually happened multiple times to Thibs coached teams. They have happened each of the last three seasons as a matter of fact. OG is another non contact injury while playing more minutes than he should have been as well.

You should stop playing because you haven't addressed the main fact. Our players are playing more minutes than most of the league. Playing more minutes than they have since they were rookies. None of the top teams come close to the Knicks in minutes. Not one. The players/media/fans are all talking about it. It's real. Talking about 6-7 random players getting a specific injury doesn't prove anything to the contrary at all. We struggle to get 50 minutes for the bench most nights. That's a full 20-30 minutes less than the next closest team. It's a problem.

I already addressed in 2005 things changed. I did the research. Maybe you should too. Is it a lot of minutes in relation to minute distributions currently? Yes. But players used to play 38 minutes regularly and it wasn't an issue back then. Now it is? I'm sorry I already posted 2 videos of both Kobe and Jordan saying they are payed to play whatever minutes they play and it is the players responsibility to make sure they are up to the task. OKC has a low minutes distribution because it is one of the deeper teams in the league. The Knicks aren't built that way. Personally I believe if they never got rid of Divincenzo this wouldn't even be a problem. I thought at the begining of the season they were deep enough. They aren't. If rookies Dadiet or Kolek or Hukporti are expected to have that much of an impact on a team with championship aspirations, it is NOT a championship ready team. That's the honest truth.

just stop it bro.you are not doing research and proving anything. You're just wrong. Beat it.

[TeddySakKnicks]

You people compare the Knicks roster with Boston, Cleveland, and OKC. They are not the same. We do not have their depth. Thibs had to play guys tons of minutes because guys were injured.

Robinson, Deuce, OG, Achiuwa, and even Shamet all missed a lot of time

As these guys have come back and have gotten their conditioning up, the minutes have been better distributed. This was happening BEFORE Mikal’s tirade

It’s sad to see that even when the Knicks have turned things around, we as fans have to find someone to crucify and blame

Boston took YEARS to reach this level. If you remember correctly, there was TONS of talk about giving up on the Brown/Tatum duo until they finally won

Cleveland has had a few years now to build to where they are at as well, it didn’t happen as quickly as you guys expect things to happen with our Knicks

Thibs needs the rest of this year AND next year to get a fair shake. After that, sure, fire him

[joec32033]

KAT getting hurt playing when he shouldn't have been on the court. Hart did not tear his abdomen skateboarding on his day off. He was playing too many minutes. Mitch was put back in a game where he already had a broken ankle. These are not accidents. These are overuse injuries and poor judgement from the HC. It's just a coincidence that the team has all five starters in the top 50 of minutes played and we are getting injuries EVERY YEAR and we limp into the ASB. Then the wheels fall off in the playoffs. These are things that actually happened multiple times to Thibs coached teams. They have happened each of the last three seasons as a matter of fact. OG is another non contact injury while playing more minutes than he should have been as well.

You should stop playing because you haven't addressed the main fact. Our players are playing more minutes than most of the league. Playing more minutes than they have since they were rookies. None of the top teams come close to the Knicks in minutes. Not one. The players/media/fans are all talking about it. It's real. Talking about 6-7 random players getting a specific injury doesn't prove anything to the contrary at all. We struggle to get 50 minutes for the bench most nights. That's a full 20-30 minutes less than the next closest team. It's a problem.

I already addressed in 2005 things changed. I did the research. Maybe you should too. Is it a lot of minutes in relation to minute distributions currently? Yes. But players used to play 38 minutes regularly and it wasn't an issue back then. Now it is? I'm sorry I already posted 2 videos of both Kobe and Jordan saying they are payed to play whatever minutes they play and it is the players responsibility to make sure they are up to the task. OKC has a low minutes distribution because it is one of the deeper teams in the league. The Knicks aren't built that way. Personally I believe if they never got rid of Divincenzo this wouldn't even be a problem. I thought at the begining of the season they were deep enough. They aren't. If rookies Dadiet or Kolek or Hukporti are expected to have that much of an impact on a team with championship aspirations, it is NOT a championship ready team. That's the honest truth.

just stop it bro.you are not doing research and proving anything. You're just wrong. Beat it.

Translation:

"I don't want to do this anymore because facts win arguments, and I'm too lazy to do research so all I got is opinions." It's fine. I'll agree to disagree.

[joec32033]

point 1 - Yes, players get hurt, they get hurt on other teams, they get hurt in other ways, the point is about probability and obvious over-use. Durant is a great example because he was playing at a time where he should have been shut down, medical team failed him.

point 2 - This is the question with resting player, rest v rust before the playoffs, whether to play you team in pre-season or not, load management. Obviously you can bubble wrap a player all season, but if you want them to play at all, they need to be brought back to game speed, have conditioning, etc There is a balance between the load management people and the Thibs 40 mins per game approach. That is likely optimial where we get the benefit of being our most competitive, we may lose 2-3 games over a season due to this, but we will have developed the end of our bench, we will have players on the team that have increased confidence, feel like they are actually part of the team, and our best players will have that last gear ready for the playoffs.

Most good coaches are coaching for the playoffs, they have plays/strategies etc that are only to be unlocked for the right time. Think Eagles/Pats "Philly Special"

We are not going to have anything in the chamber.

point 3 - So you have the offensive raw production. How about defense? How about percents?
Also our numbers will have a bit of a skew because we don't use garbage time. What difference that makes? idk, but it's where we are an outlier

Off the bat I had issues finding defensive stats by quarter but I'm gonna keep trying.

You want to see or present other stars feel free to find and present them. I did. But I will look for you when I get a chance.

Are you willing to sacrifice wins for minutes? If the starters don't get the minutes they're getting, the record is worse. Are you prepared to be the 8th seed or the seven seed instead of the second or third seed because you want to get rookies to get minutes that may not even factor into the playoffs?

The point is if the minutes weren't the way they were last year the Knicks probably don't have the run that they had. Same hold true this year. Like I said in the other post, if rookies are having that much of an impact in a "championship" season you do not have a championship team.

I am willing to sacrifice 3 wins and a couple seeds (we would probably be 4-5 seed this year) to ease the load on the starters. It would give us a better chance in the playoffs.

Depending on how the matchups fall, sure. Maybe dropping no more than the 4 (for home court, which to me is important for this team). Speaking for me, when you are not in the class of the real elite teams (Cleveland, Boston), and really are grouped in with the next tier of teams you need every advantage you can get because you are a flawed team and that can definitely be taken advantage of.