PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again

[Juco24]

As much as I like Melo - I, too would trade him but I'd ensure (playing gm here) he ended up on a contender (only way he'd wave the ntc).... Clippers, Cavs are two that come to mind quickly and I'd also make sure we get back multiple picks and/or young GOOD players. It'll never happen of course.

Then stop wasting your time thinking about it if you already have the answer.

Good advice... although it is my time.

[thebuzzardman]

Hernangomez definitely needs more burn, he looks like an NBA player. His defense will be more exposed against better teams but his instincts are better than given credit for - his foot speed means his defensive ceiling probably isn't high but he should be able to hold his own with experience. At the very least give him enough time per game to grow.

It was nice to see ennings play distributor. He still did dumb stuff out there and that's why he's better off on the bench, but it's nice to see him be effective. I'll take stat lines like that from him anyday.

Kuz should also be a rotation player, he has a lot of issues but he has more talent than Lance.

If Willy doesn't become next Pau I will be very dissapointed. Their games are so similar - both have great hands, great footwork, great finishing around the rim and most importantly instincts off the ball. Lots of promises from 2nd rounder, Love it! Thank you Gaines

Pau is 7', Willy is 6'10". This alone is significant.

Being realistic, we can't expect him to be either Gasol, but I'm glad he's locked up for now, he's a player worth developing.

As far as an NBA bench goes, if a team is deep, it'll have a guy or two who should be NBA starters, and the quality of that 6th or 7th man is a function of how good the starting lineup is. So a stacked team like the Warriors (extreme example) has in effect a 6th starter in Iggy.

Anyway, most other NBA teams have guys with more limitations - they are either good at defense, but not offense, or better offensively, less so on defense, or the guys who are "ok" at both (Lance Thomas on a good day)

So, if you want the "2nd unit" to have an identity, it could have a defensive one based on the bench having more of those strengths, where they try to keep the lead even (or the deficit) or maybe even chip into it, with defensive play. An offensive one will more go bucket for bucket with the other team, again, holding the points where they are, or maybe catching up a little.

I don't think the Knicks, outside of Holiday, really have a "plus" defender on the bench. KOQ is "ok". LT is "ok". WillieB and Kuz are probably less the "ok" at this point. I think Jennings is ok, but can go plus against certain opponents.

So, I'd go with playing Hernangomez and Kuz over KOQ and Thomas, with Jennings and Holiday. Jennings and Holiday have shown enough offense in a team oriented way to play with any unit. Kuz and WillieB are more offensive threats who move, space and pass while being legit offensive threats.

Might as well try to keep the score even or extend it a little with offense, not defense, in the 2nd unit. Also, in terms of staggered lineups, WillieB and Kuz offer better versatility and, importantly, chemistry in style of play with Porzingis.

Just my two cents. I'll admit to being biased towards Kuz and WillieB plus really disliking Thomas.

[Blockwatcher]

I worry Jennings is going to celebrate to hard and pop a blood vessel

[APE]

The rotations looked much better last night. Jennings was hot with those assists as well! I love seeing him get everyone involved.

[j4remi]

It was a win over the Nets and they were missing Jeremy Lin, so let's not get too hype...but there was a lot that I liked about this one after a slow start that looked more confused than lacking effort. The offense took a bit to get going with Rose and Lee really carrying the load early, but Melo and KP took over their roles as first and second options respectively and the offense began to really roll. Defensively, the motion and communication showed improvement but soft closeouts early really hurt these guys with Forwards firing from three. The second half, that improved and the overall defense looked strong but the caveat remains that we were playing the Nets and it needs to be mentioned that there was no answer for Brook Lopez. Time to work on hard post doubles and timing.

Rose: 60% from the field including a made three and second one he hit with a foot on the line. He had 4 assists in just over 20 mins and added a couple of boards too. Rose played well, make no mistake, he's been moving the ball effectively and keeping his dribble more controlled. 14 and 4 in 22 mins is good and Jennings played so well in the second half that we were able to rest Rose plenty which is huge for dude's legs.

Lee: His shot was failing him from outside, but his ability to catch the ball in motion and attack the lane with floaters, lay-ups, kick outs and pull ups made him a really important piece to our early offense. He kept us afloat for a bit. Defensively, he's always reliable but thanks to the Nets heavily favoring big men...it really didn't stand out like it tends to on most nights.

Melo: Didn't shoot for the first half of the first quarter and he had no rhythm early. I think he started 0-5 from the field. But he gained more and more momentum as he went along and while he shot poorly he turned up blocks and rebounds that helped the team anyway. He was solid on defense all night and in the third quarter when the team couldn't buy a bucket...Iso-Melo calmed things down and got us back. I'll keep saying it, Isolations aren't evil as long as you pick your spots. When Bogdanovic is isolated on Melo and the Nets aren't shading help defenders over; Melo can do things like run off 14 points in 5 minutes to destroy a 9 point deficit.

KP: 21, 8, 1 assist to his bestie Willy, 2 blocks, 2 steals...this was the KP we always wanna see. He impacted the game everywhere. He's still struggling to close out to the three point line but when the PG's work to get him open and find him...he's an absolute monster without needing a go-to move. Early on the post up, turn around jumper near the corners looked reliable too. His three point shooting is on another level this year, if he's open it's almost automatic. Honestly, just a really good game from a guy who has looked like a true second option in this recent run.

Noah: 2 points, 7 boards, 4 assists in 20 minutes. Like Rose, he got a nice long break while Willy was going off in the second half. He struggled with Brook mightily but Brook is a tough assignment without help because of his post work. Solid game, not much new to say about him though. His vision as a passer is really impressive for a big.

Jennings: Jennings had a nightmare first half, dribbling off his foot, throwing tough passes to guys with bad hands (Ndour and KOQ) and just struggling everywhere. When he got to play with the offensive bench guys and Melo or KP...he was a new man. His ability use ball handling to open spaces for KP and Willy was a marvel; and his telling Melo "we're going to you, keep shooting" was a floor general move that is easy to overlook. He also has a shark mindset in that when he senses the opponents' falling off mentally, he starts to turn up and jaw at players; clap at 'em; get inside their heads. It's a playground mentality, but it's effective as hell. 11 assists in 27 minutes, he bought Rose a nice break and I love to see a player pick themselves up after getting down in the first half.

Can't Get Right Thomas: He was three for five in 10 minutes plus showed up inside trying to grab boards (awful hands prevent it though). Somehow shooting efficiently and playing pretty hard, he still didn't seem to be helping the situation on the floor much but that's because he can't shoulder the scoring load for a unit with no scorers.

KOQ: Similar to Lance, he didn't play bad but the unit wasn't working. He had some at the rim defense and forced a TO taking a charge and didn't force his offense but the unit just looked bad out there.

Ndour: Same as above, his defense was actually pretty good. He got to where he needed to be on both ends but he also couldn't catch tricky passes from BJ, and I repeat...he was part a unit that simply wasn't working.

Holiday: His worst game so far, came in and immediately took a fairly contested off the dribble jumper that bricked. He wasn't impacting other areas and his 2 shots in 5 minutes both missed the mark.

Sasha: Part of the other second unit, the one that worked. He actually did a good job with on ball full court pressure. He's had a knack for grabbing boards since he got here. He also forced some bad jumpers which always happens with dude. You don't want the ball travelling to his hands much on offense because he gets impatient and just fires off (1-5 from the field). But he wasn't bad, partially because the focus was so heavily on other offensive parts and his defense held up for a change.

Kuz: He's an attacking player period. He only got 4 shots up but whenever he touched the ball, he attacked his man before passing or shooting. He had a beauty of a step back three on Booker. He's not shy about shooting three's, he's comfortable dribbling at cats, his instincts are to get to the rim and he's also willing to post up...defensively he was sound, not good but active and not particularly bad until he slowed down a bit later in his run. He notched two steals and gave good fouls rather than foolish ones on two of the three he picked up. I think the second unit needs an attacker like him.

Willy: And then there was Willy. Dude came out there like he had something to prove. He set good screens, worked hard on boards, looked to pass to cutters and really protect the rims. He knows when the cut and where to cut to on offense which meant a lot of easy looks. His foot speed on D is questionable but he knows where he should be which helps. 14 pts, 6 boards, 2 blocks and a steal in 15 minutes...that's ridiculously productive. The blocks were legit too, he threw one dude's weak floater out to the perimeter and the steal was good hands against a lazy post. He made his case to get a real shot at the back-up C which is saying something because KOQ hasn't been bad; but this kid was really good. Also...his chemistry with KP is fun to watch.

Hornacek: Nicely coached game! When the Knicks got possession with 8 ticks left in the first, he threw KP back out there almost as fast as he'd pulled the kid for a breather. That's a minor thing, but good to see a Knicks coach do it! When the second unit didn't work, he changed it. He started making sure one or two starters were in with the second unit. He also left guys in who were riding momentum; so the two big offseason acquisitions didn't get star minutes but they got the breaks you want to see them get...and the back-ups had a chance to really thrive, build confidence and develop rapport with teammates. Lee says he tore the guys up at half time about defense and it showed in their effort too. So everything worked well as he adjusted and moved forward. The game snowballed from poor play to mediocre to good to great; all off his decisions.

Random: Boston next, they've been without Crowder and Horford which would be nice but I'm not taking that match up for granted. Toronto after that is a TOUGH match-up, they have pieces in the right places to give us fits and have looked great off Derozan going super saiyan to start this season. After that it's the Mavs, who always scare me but seem patchwprk right now off injuries and new additions. For all the rough start and negativity, this team has a real opportunity to be .500 after the first 10 with no preseason where the line-up played together and mostly quality opponents (not necessarily great but most of them weren't gimmes). This next three can turn a worrisome open into a really promising start.

Craziest thing: How about this...Walt criticized the Knicks during a 4 minute or more scoreless drought for OVERPASSING. Rose and Melo were both out there too. I'm not sure what to think of that, it's so rare that we see these guys pass too much instead of the other way around. They actually had good looks most of it too, but bricked or pass 'em up. It was strange but in a weird way, I was okay with that because it felt like the trust is building and they were really trying to play cohesively without sweating their FGA's or forcing their strengths.

[thebuzzardman]

Really enjoyed the second half of the game, it was great to see the Euro squad put it together and play well as a unit. Also while a lot of people come down hard on Melo I don't see us winning if he didn't do his thing and get us back into the game.

No more Lance Thomas or KOQ, not when we have a unit who looks as promising as this, I say give them burn together and see how it works out.

As for coaching last night, it was much better and I am cautiously optimistic that Jeff will finally put it all together.

Was it ctorres who said maybe the plan was to give LFT and KOQ a certain amount of games to keep their job\get Kuz and WillieB practice experience, with the thought of eventually replacing them?

It just makes so much more sense to play these guys if you want a movement oriented offense. Not like Lance tries, but he's not as skilled as Kuz. And KOQ is a willing passer and decent defender this year, but WillieB seems to have something special about his game.
Also, as I said in my other post, KP is just more comfortable playing with these guys, so it makes sense when staggering the starters that he's the starter that is out there with the 2nd unit for minutes.

Again, the only reason it didn't happen from game one has to be "vet respect" and not wanting to lose guys,mentally

[Separatista]

I'm not convince that Kuz and Willie cannot be a serviceable defender on the team. All I've seen of them are a few minutes this season and a game or two in preseason. They're mediocre defenders by reputation overseas. Maybe they can adapt to an NBA pace. Unless I see them in 15 or more minutes like a certain L.Thomas on the court, I'll reserve my judgement regarding their defensive prowess.

[F N 11]

KP with the block then Jennings rewards him gong to the basket for the and 1 dunk. We need more of that from our PG. They love finding KP now. much better after his 3 point game.

[HEZI]

I swear I thought that corner 3 from Willy was going in. It looked so good and he looked so comfortable taking it and his form looks very nice. He did hit that 15 footer. If he develops a consistent jumper and can step out behind the 3 point line and spread the floor, mixed in with his already advanced post game, oh boy.

I also loved his aggressiveness on defense. Man this kid can play. Could it be that we found our future center in the 2nd round?

Would really like to see him and Porzingis play more together going forward.

[F N 11]

Loved the curl plays ran for C Lee in the paint. Maybe some of those can be ran for d Rose.

[nykfan42]

Love the title of the PG thread. Nice job.

I think the team plays better running the offense through KP. 3 straight 20 point games for him. He seems to play really well with Jennings too. They ran the same play 2 or 3 times that led to KP getting an open 3. Mainly bc the Nets ineffective trap on Jennings. Keep feeding the beast.

[malik959]

At halftime I was so mad at the Knicks lackluster play That I was ready to throw my tv and head to the room, but after listening to Billips I was, like oh hell naw Knicks better get back in this $£!+.

[F N 11]

How can people complain about the starting lineup offensively? They are one of the best if not the best in the league Offensive rating wise. Its the teams overall defense and bench play that has to improve. We going to be alright.

I saw a lot of nice plays ran and getting the ball to the hot hand. Very encouraging.

[nykfan42]

Jennings was a +24 last night haha wow.

[F N 11]

Read on Twitter

Point gawd **it folks.

[F N 11]

I swear I thought that corner 3 from Willy was going in. It looked so good and he looked so comfortable taking it and his form looks very nice. He did hit that 15 footer. If he develops a consistent jumper and can step out behind the 3 point line and spread the floor, mixed in with his already advanced post game, oh boy.

I also loved his aggressiveness on defense. Man this kid can play. Could it be that we found our future center in the 2nd round?

Would really like to see him and Porzingis play more together going forward.

Jump shot looked improved. This guy has the motor like KP to get better fast. Really want to see the euro lineup again with Jennings.

Also why people knocking Rose? He's averaging 16 5 and 4 shooting 45% 40 from 3 and 87 from the line with only 2.4 TO's per game all with new teammates. This can only get better.

also this has to be a joke

New York (AFP) - Just one day after Kurt Rambis took control of the New York defence, the Knicks held an opponent to under 100 points for the first time this season.

[mrcalzone]

Kuz and Billy NEED to be part of the rotation going forward.

[K_ick_God]

Just hope KP and Willy can play together. That's a nice pair of young bigs.

[god shammgod]

i can't get too excited about winning this. the defense was so bad early. against a real team we would have been down 30.

[mrcalzone]

i can't get too excited about winning this. the defense was so bad early. against a real team we would have been down 30.

relief is the best word