Knicks-Heat PG Thread

[Zingod]

KP deep in the midst of his annual hot start followed by a big decline

Sell high

[Zingod]

Lance Thomas

28min

1 pts
0-2 fg
1-2 ft
2 reb
1 stl
1 blk
2 to
3 fouls

-12

[ChilledAlex]

Lance Thomas

28min

1 pts
0-2 fg
1-2 ft
2 reb
1 stl
1 blk
2 to
3 fouls

-12

I'd take that performance over a 7'3 volume shooter who shoots 30% from field on 20shot attempts per game

[Sark]

Read on Twitter

Jeff's gotta go.

On the road to 18-64!!!!

I'd like to see him coach a young team, and not have this mandate to make the playoffs. I wish the Knicks would do as they said they would do before the season, and go young. This playoffs or bust crap is killing the team as it always has.

[Sark]

Lance Thomas

28min

1 pts
0-2 fg
1-2 ft
2 reb
1 stl
1 blk
2 to
3 fouls

-12

I'd take that performance over a 7'3 volume shooter who shoots 30% from field on 20shot attempts per game

[thebuzzardman]

35 minutes for jackass

Super quick hook for Frank mistakes, Jeff swallows the hook on Jack mistakes

[thebuzzardman]

Condolences on the loss and a somewhat-premature 'I told you so' to the guy who told me dropping John Collins for Michael Beasley was a absolutely horrible move for my fantasy team.

#SuperCoolBeas4MVP

Thanks. Here's some complimentary snacks:

[Jellybeans]

Read on Twitter

Jeff's gotta go.

On the road to 18-64!!!!

I'd like to see him coach a young team, and not have this mandate to make the playoffs. I wish the Knicks would do as they said they would do before the season, and go young. This playoffs or bust crap is killing the team as it always has.

Can you name me few good things about Jeff?Havent learned players new things..Havent seen any changes in him too..

[thebuzzardman]

it's just routine for some coaches to trust vets over young players. frank was having a bad offensive game so jack got the call again. it's no vast conspiracy.

People are acting like Frank got pulled out of a maestro performance.

[thebuzzardman]

I'm only up to page 7 of reading, but surprised it hasn't come up.

KP decided he needed to train all summer and also play for the Latvian team in the Eurocup, action which had all of us oohin and ahhing over his clips and how it helped him be "the man"

This activity took place for a player many many people on here and in the media speculated had stamina\anemia\something issues that made him tail off in the 2nd half of seasons

So, now he's tailing off HARD.

Gee, I wonder what the cause might be.

[thebuzzardman]

Basically, until team KP or the Knicks figure out his conditioning/anemia/whatever issues, KP seems like the type of player who

You might not want doing heavy bball activities in the offseason
Who needs to average less minutes? (not sure if that helps)
Probably needs to be given days early in the season and regularly throughout - probably needs to sit 12-14 games a year as a "healthy scratch"

[thebuzzardman]

Read on Twitter

Jeff's gotta go.

On the road to 18-64!!!!

I'd like to see him coach a young team, and not have this mandate to make the playoffs. I wish the Knicks would do as they said they would do before the season, and go young. This playoffs or bust crap is killing the team as it always has.

Can you name me few good things about Jeff?Havent learned players new things..Havent seen any changes in him too..

Remember in the game thread, before overtime, where I said "Knicks need to dumb down KP's offense as if he's really not that skilled, because though he's skilled, he's not THAT skilled"?

Here's another reason maybe the Knicks don't need 4 Centers, though we always look at it defensively. Maybe KP needs to be forced into more situations where he's in plays 90% of the leagues team run for their crap, role playing C's who can't do much outside of P&R plays. I'm not saying that is who KP is, but he sure ain't ISO melo, carry the team, clear out I got this.
And so, maybe the Knicks are repeating the Amare\Melo\Chandler mistake of overlapping roles in their best players. Or maybe they just need to get a coach and a PG who can run stuff for multiple bigs, though I really think maybe they need a PF/C type with more range to spread out the floor and put KP in the P&R more often.

Which doesn't mean that Kanter or KOQ or WHG need to go, but they certainly need to get rid of two of them and replace them with a couple of guys who grab rebounds and knock down jumpers so KP has more room to operate.

Roster construction continues to suck for the Knicks.

[thebuzzardman]

He did it earlier in the game too.

but im told it's jack's fault..smh

Jack is still boo boo though.

I can't believe how obvious it is and everyone is ignoring it or doesn't see it.

KP is tired. Not joking here and it's certainly NOT an excuse for KP because he SHOULDN'T be tired at this point.

But he is. He looks EXACTLY like mid season rookie KP and mid season last years KP.

And I used to wonder "why the f*ck are the Knicks guards looking him off?".

Two reasons. Well, one is obvious the and the other is conjecture. One is that they aren't, but he's being lazy, not moving, not getting good position, so they don't bother getting him the ball because, well, it's not a good play
The other, and I swear it's happening, is he gets position, no worse than any other time, and CLee will be like "ummm, yeah, f*ck you. Not giving you the ball" and swings it the other way.
I'm 90% sure this is Lee's way of saying "f*ck you, you aren't working hard enough out here"

[thebuzzardman]

KP is still about 2 years away. Just like the roster around him needs to improve, so does KP himself. Strength, conditioning, decision making, offense, defense, all needs to get better.

You always say he's a horrible defender. Why should that suddenly change in two years?

[thebuzzardman]

KP def deserves some blame...his energy level is much lower than the start of the year.

But if you don't think playing alongside jack is hurting him people are nuts. Jack gets KP ZERO and i mean ZERO open looks. Frank finds KP a lot in the very small amount of time they play together....that on Jeff

KP is 7'3 he's not a guard or a wing that can create his own shot. So having a guard that can get him looks is vital. The fact we are forcing jack down his throat is beyond belief.

If KP truly cannot create his own shot then the team may need to go in another direction sooner rather than later. In this NBA, your teams best players aren't spoon fed. Role players and secondary options yes, but not your primary guy.

True, the pg should be giving him better scoring chances and in the start of the season that was happening and there's really no debate against it. Of course Jack shouldn't be playing this much at this point, his age and bad defense has caught up.

Which is why I’ve always laughed at the team vs player arguments over the years on this board.

If you’ve ever played ball whether it’s the Park, organized basketball, high school basketball, college basketball (I’ve done all 4), you’d know there is only so much the team aspect of basketball will carry you. It’s amazing to have players that flow within the offense & hits open shots, but you still need that “dog” in you that decides what a main scorer is and what a complimentary scorer is.

Creating a shot is not KP’s strength.....at all.

He can go in the post and hit a fade or a hook, he can awkwardly dribble & awkwardly put up a shot that goes in but giving him the ball telling him to make a decision whether it’s creating a shot or setting up shots for others is not his strength.

And to be honest we don’t have 5 years to figure it out, we’re on a timetable & we have to decide if he’s the 1st option or the 2nd option. We made that mistake twice already with Amare & Melo, which is why once again this season is infuriating me to no end because this is the last season before the draft reform & the perfect rebuilding year to be terrible out the gate.

But I digress, KP so far doesn’t have the attitude where he can say I don’t need to be spoon fed I got this. And there is nothing wrong with that, he just can’t be our franchise player if that’s the case. It’s not fair of the position he’s in because of the surrounding players he has but life isn’t fair.

Melo had that alpha dog attitude and the team still sucked becuase the guards sucked.

[April madness]

I'm only up to page 7 of reading, but surprised it hasn't come up.

KP decided he needed to train all summer and also play for the Latvian team in the Eurocup, action which had all of us oohin and ahhing over his clips and how it helped him be "the man"

This activity took place for a player many many people on here and in the media speculated had stamina\anemia\something issues that made him tail off in the 2nd half of seasons

So, now he's tailing off HARD.

Gee, I wonder what the cause might be.

Maybe. On the other hand, playing him on our national team showed everyone the way he can be used to excel (he's not used that way here) and he got some experience of winning with a team. Probably if they had won Euro champs he'd not be pushing to play with national team for some time (till the World cup), but I think he will want to play. He wants to already this summer. Do you think an extra month would really solve his stamina/anemia problem? I wonder if he trusts Knicks to help him find the right way of training during the summer

[thebuzzardman]

KP is a dominant defensive force and an elite finisher. He'll have some moves in his prime but I don't think he's a guy where you give him the ball and something happens. Physique and skillset more than anything. Hardaway is that a bit and they'll need another guy. Frank might have it too. I wouldn't count him out. He has the frame to do just about anything but with him I do think mindset is an issue. With these pieces it will have to be a committee.

This. I've said he's "more Ewing and less Melo", in terms of extreme comparisons. Note to thickheaded posters: I'm not saying his playing style is Ewing or that he'll get to Ewings level (or he might in a different way) or that Ewing wasn't better sooner (he was)

It's that while eventually Ewing did figure out how to back down guys and score, he was always dependent on a guard feeding him the ball in the post first. Long story short, Melo was a shot creator for himself, Pat not so much and KP isn't a shot creator either, on the whole. The rub is that KP's post game needs a ton of work which is what you want with a big who (like most) don't create that much.

Which is why the Knicks should be running the P&R with KP a LOT and why they need someone besides a bunch of semi stiff C's playing alongside him.

[thebuzzardman]

I'm only up to page 7 of reading, but surprised it hasn't come up.

KP decided he needed to train all summer and also play for the Latvian team in the Eurocup, action which had all of us oohin and ahhing over his clips and how it helped him be "the man"

This activity took place for a player many many people on here and in the media speculated had stamina\anemia\something issues that made him tail off in the 2nd half of seasons

So, now he's tailing off HARD.

Gee, I wonder what the cause might be.

Maybe. On the other hand, playing him on our national team showed everyone the way he can be used to excel (he's not used that way here) and he got some experience of winning with a team. Probably if they had won Euro champs he'd not be pushing to play with national team for some time (till the World cup), but I think he will want to play. He wants to already this summer. Do you think an extra month would really solve his stamina/anemia problem? I wonder if he trusts Knicks to help him find the right way of training during the summer

It showed him the way etc etc etc. I'm not denying that.

What isn't deniable is that the guy is completely physically shot out there. Which, as I pointed out, sort of happens anyway. If it's not clear to the Knicks now, it never will be, but if KP came off playing 3 hard weeks before preseason even started, they should have been giving him every 5th game off.
Imagine the Knicks actually make the playoffs? KP would have you thinking he's the white ghost of Manute Bol out there.

[thebuzzardman]

KP is a dominant defensive force and an elite finisher. He'll have some moves in his prime but I don't think he's a guy where you give him the ball and something happens. Physique and skillset more than anything. Hardaway is that a bit and they'll need another guy. Frank might have it too. I wouldn't count him out. He has the frame to do just about anything but with him I do think mindset is an issue. With these pieces it will have to be a committee.

I think with KP, Frank & Hardaway there is a potential of 3 GREAT two way players & we would be missing that one elite guy to put us over the top. Maybe we could get that player in the draft or through free agency.

THJr has great defensive potential?

*snicker*

[Sark]

Read on Twitter

Jeff's gotta go.

On the road to 18-64!!!!

I'd like to see him coach a young team, and not have this mandate to make the playoffs. I wish the Knicks would do as they said they would do before the season, and go young. This playoffs or bust crap is killing the team as it always has.

Can you name me few good things about Jeff?Havent learned players new things..Havent seen any changes in him too..

Wasn't it a few weeks ago that he was leading this team to new heights now that he was out from under the pressure of Phil Jackson and the triangle? Weren't there quotes from everyone including KP, that it was triangle all along that was holding them back?

At the end of the day you can't just fire coaches every 2 years because things aren't going the way you planned. That's honestly more dysfunctional than outright tanking. There needs to be consistency in the organization, or else a winning culture can never be created.

I think Hornacek is a smart basketball person, and deserves to coach a team where he isn't forced to play scrubs and has-beens like Jack, LFT, and Lee. Let's see him with Frank, KP, WHG, Timmy, and 18pick. If he can't do anything with them, then you move on.