Frank Thread 3: FIBA Frank Aftermath

[moocow007]

If frank can shoot, he fits with anyone

If frank could and/or willing to shoot the Knicks front office wouldn't have been trying to trade him on draft day nor would they have been adding other PG's to the team like they were disciples of David Kahn. Sometimes that hardest thing is to teach a sheep how to be a wolf. Frank's career with the Knicks have been defined by him looking more sheep than wolf.

Ideal world you're right. But in an ideal world, Trier would still be potent offensively but not ISO ZO and Smith Jr would be a stronger defender than he is and both, therefore, would also fit with anyone. In an ideal world, I'd look like a young Brad Pitt and be dating a young Angelina Jolie.

[moocow007]

Watch on YouTube

Coach Nick more bullish on FIBA Frank than I was (apparently Alan Hahn too as he put Frank in his ideal starting backcourt during the KFTV interview). I just wanna see Frank get a shot to show his growth and see it sticks.

He needs to take the shot (figuratively and literally). He's been given shots before and he's gone into "good Frank" mode. We need him to go "bad Frank". Someone photoshop him in a black uniform with a scar, an evil looking goatee and an eye patch (or maybe a set of small red horns)!!! Like that episode of the original Star Trek with the evil tyrannical Spock.

Put him in waluigi gear. It's like when Melo would go shot happy and we'd call him Welo; except we want to see it happen.

I would love it if first game in, Frank is taking the ball to the hoop and looking to get his own and freezing out Smith and Trier. NBA Basketball isn't tiddlywinks, it isn't the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. You got to show everyone else that your balls have dropped and that you don't take a backseat to nobody. Make a statement that "I'm here to stay" and make it loud. There's no other way to say it. Well there is, but it's not as graphic and to the point.

[mpharris36]

If frank can shoot, he fits with anyone

If frank could and/or willing to shoot the Knicks front office wouldn't have been trying to trade him on draft day nor would they have been adding other PG's to the team like they were disciples of David Kahn. Sometimes that hardest thing is to teach a sheep how to be a wolf. Frank's career with the Knicks have been defined by him looking like a sheep instead of a wolf.

If Trier and Smith could defend better they'd also fit with anyone.

If I looked like a young Brad Pitt I'd be dating a young Angelina Jolie.

While I do agree somewhat to the above statement on frank. I do believe part of the problem was the Knicks treating frank like a US/AAU player thinking he was just going to play like a wolf. Everyone developed differently. Frank was always a project and instead of always trying to find some garbage ass replacement that could score more (Burke/mudiay/jack). They should of just let frank be frank and coach him and let him develop through mistakes. Early hooks and lack of confidence won’t get him to the wolf we saw during FIBA. Confidence from teammates and coaching staff did.

[Capn'O]

the gloves are off lol

Just remember since I became a mod people started disappearing. Don’t be one of those people

[DOT]

the gloves are off lol

Just remember since I became a mod people started disappearing. Don’t be one of those people

mpharris36 receives mod powers, 2018, colorized

[Clyde_Style]

the gloves are off lol

Just remember since I became a mod people started disappearing. Don’t be one of those people

I'm putting money on you're the one who impregnated Scully

[Capn'O]

Just remember since I became a mod people started disappearing. Don’t be one of those people

I'm putting money on you're the one who impregnated Scully

I'll allow it.

[NYKAL]

If frank can shoot, he fits with anyone

If frank could and/or willing to shoot the Knicks front office wouldn't have been trying to trade him on draft day nor would they have been adding other PG's to the team like they were disciples of David Kahn. Sometimes that hardest thing is to teach a sheep how to be a wolf. Frank's career with the Knicks have been defined by him looking like a sheep instead of a wolf.

If Trier and Smith could defend better they'd also fit with anyone.

If I looked like a young Brad Pitt I'd be dating a young Angelina Jolie.

While I do agree somewhat to the above statement on frank. I do believe part of the problem was the Knicks treating frank like a US/AAU player thinking he was just going to play like a wolf. Everyone developed differently. Frank was always a project and instead of always trying to find some garbage ass replacement that could score more (Burke/mudiay/jack). They should of just let frank be frank and coach him and let him develop through mistakes. Early hooks and lack of confidence won’t get him to the wolf we saw during FIBA. Confidence from teammates and coaching staff did.

yeah but, being a project (skills wise) and being timid may very well be separate issues. I don't know if you can coach up someones personality. Either you have that fire in your belly or you don't. He even shot a poor percentage with the french team. I think his defense was more locked in than I ever saw it. In the past he'd have a very good sequence or two but, was never locked in for the whole game. In essence, we didn't see anything that we didn't already know about Frank other than a more consistent defensive presence.

[GONYK]

If frank could and/or willing to shoot the Knicks front office wouldn't have been trying to trade him on draft day nor would they have been adding other PG's to the team like they were disciples of David Kahn. Sometimes that hardest thing is to teach a sheep how to be a wolf. Frank's career with the Knicks have been defined by him looking like a sheep instead of a wolf.

If Trier and Smith could defend better they'd also fit with anyone.

If I looked like a young Brad Pitt I'd be dating a young Angelina Jolie.

While I do agree somewhat to the above statement on frank. I do believe part of the problem was the Knicks treating frank like a US/AAU player thinking he was just going to play like a wolf. Everyone developed differently. Frank was always a project and instead of always trying to find some garbage ass replacement that could score more (Burke/mudiay/jack). They should of just let frank be frank and coach him and let him develop through mistakes. Early hooks and lack of confidence won’t get him to the wolf we saw during FIBA. Confidence from teammates and coaching staff did.

yeah but, being a project (skills wise) and being timid may very well be separate issues. I don't know if you can coach up someones personality. Either you have that fire in your belly or you don't. He even shot a poor percentage with the french team. I think his defense was more locked in than I ever saw it. In the past he'd have a very good sequence or two but, was never locked in for the whole game. In essence, we didn't see anything that we didn't already know about Frank other than a more consistent defensive presence.

We didn't see anything we didn't already know?

I think that is an inaccurate assessment of Frank's FIBA performance. He had multiple double digit scoring games, he was a lot more aggressive off the dribble and a better finisher around the rim. He shot FT's at a higher rate. He shot 3's more frequently and more accurately.

If he showed nothing different, he wouldn't have scored more, his performance would not be a major story coming out of the World Cup, and 1/2 the old regulars in this thread wouldn't have vanished overnight

[MadGrinch]

If frank could and/or willing to shoot the Knicks front office wouldn't have been trying to trade him on draft day nor would they have been adding other PG's to the team like they were disciples of David Kahn. Sometimes that hardest thing is to teach a sheep how to be a wolf. Frank's career with the Knicks have been defined by him looking like a sheep instead of a wolf.

If Trier and Smith could defend better they'd also fit with anyone.

If I looked like a young Brad Pitt I'd be dating a young Angelina Jolie.

While I do agree somewhat to the above statement on frank. I do believe part of the problem was the Knicks treating frank like a US/AAU player thinking he was just going to play like a wolf. Everyone developed differently. Frank was always a project and instead of always trying to find some garbage ass replacement that could score more (Burke/mudiay/jack). They should of just let frank be frank and coach him and let him develop through mistakes. Early hooks and lack of confidence won’t get him to the wolf we saw during FIBA. Confidence from teammates and coaching staff did.

yeah but, being a project (skills wise) and being timid may very well be separate issues. I don't know if you can coach up someones personality. Either you have that fire in your belly or you don't. He even shot a poor percentage with the french team. I think his defense was more locked in than I ever saw it. In the past he'd have a very good sequence or two but, was never locked in for the whole game. In essence, we didn't see anything that we didn't already know about Frank other than a more consistent defensive presence.

Internal fire manifests itself in different ways

You would never say Tim Duncan wasn’t as motivated as manu because while he was introverted his passion came through in his work

No one can get that good without caring a great deal

But I’ve seen frank locked in on offense before in the U18 where he didn’t have to worry about deference and hierarchy

They just needed it from him or they were going to lose

I saw the same thing in the World Cup, they needed him to step up and he did

Not to make excuses for him but people seem to often forget he was also a physical project as much as a skill prospect and unfortunately a prospect from a mentality standpoint

He was always a 3-5 project the same as Knox if he develops before that it’s great but it’s a talent that was always going to take time.

[NYKAL]

While I do agree somewhat to the above statement on frank. I do believe part of the problem was the Knicks treating frank like a US/AAU player thinking he was just going to play like a wolf. Everyone developed differently. Frank was always a project and instead of always trying to find some garbage ass replacement that could score more (Burke/mudiay/jack). They should of just let frank be frank and coach him and let him develop through mistakes. Early hooks and lack of confidence won’t get him to the wolf we saw during FIBA. Confidence from teammates and coaching staff did.

yeah but, being a project (skills wise) and being timid may very well be separate issues. I don't know if you can coach up someones personality. Either you have that fire in your belly or you don't. He even shot a poor percentage with the french team. I think his defense was more locked in than I ever saw it. In the past he'd have a very good sequence or two but, was never locked in for the whole game. In essence, we didn't see anything that we didn't already know about Frank other than a more consistent defensive presence.

We didn't see anything we didn't already know? I think that is an inaccurate assessment of Frank's FIBA performance. He had multiple double digit scoring games, he was a lot more aggressive off the dribble and a better finisher around the rim. He shot FT's at a higher rate. He shot 3's more frequently and more accurately.

If he showed nothing different, he wouldn't have scored more. His performance would not be a major story coming out of the World Cup.

His double digit scores were 11, 12 & 16. Except for the 16pt game, he was still damn near at his verage which is 8pt on a team where he was fully comfortable and a leader on. That to me is not very impressive.

[god shammgod]

the problem with 3-5 year projects is that you have to pay them after 4 years, and you really need to decide if you want to after only 3 years or lose them for nothing. you're basically paying to train someone, and you have to guesstimate if it's gonna be worth investing even more money in them before they even produce for you.

[mpharris36]

the problem with 3-5 year projects is that you have to pay them after 4 years, and you really need to decide if you want to after only 3 years or lose them for nothing. you're basically paying to train someone, and you have to guesstimate if it's gonna be worth investing even more money in them before they even produce for you.

Nobody wants to come here anyway. Plenty of room to extend frank

[GONYK]

yeah but, being a project (skills wise) and being timid may very well be separate issues. I don't know if you can coach up someones personality. Either you have that fire in your belly or you don't. He even shot a poor percentage with the french team. I think his defense was more locked in than I ever saw it. In the past he'd have a very good sequence or two but, was never locked in for the whole game. In essence, we didn't see anything that we didn't already know about Frank other than a more consistent defensive presence.

We didn't see anything we didn't already know? I think that is an inaccurate assessment of Frank's FIBA performance. He had multiple double digit scoring games, he was a lot more aggressive off the dribble and a better finisher around the rim. He shot FT's at a higher rate. He shot 3's more frequently and more accurately.

If he showed nothing different, he wouldn't have scored more. His performance would not be a major story coming out of the World Cup.

His double digit scores were 11, 12 & 16. Except for the 16pt game, he was still damn near at his verage which is 8pt on a team where he was fully comfortable and a leader on. That to me is not very impressive.

On the basis of aggression though, he shot more, penetrated more, and shot better in less time on the floor.

Even if you don't want to assess skill improvement, that is a very noticeable improvement from an aggression standpoint.

[MadGrinch]

the problem with 3-5 year projects is that you have to pay them after 4 years, and you really need to decide if you want to after only 3 years or lose them for nothing. you're basically paying to train someone, and you have to guesstimate if it's gonna be worth investing even more money in them before they even produce for you.

That’s why team presidents and GM’s are paid big bucks to gauge and prognosticate, the hope is you have something you can’t trade for and that player isn’t always a superstar

There are role players teams won’t trade even if you offer them all stars because your all stars can’t do for them what those role players can

But even players who are ready are rarely near their prime when their 4 years are up and they are 23 .

How good was Kyle Lowry at 23 ?

Or even marC gasol?

Or how about kawhi at 23?

None of them were giving anything close to max player production.

[GONYK]

the problem with 3-5 year projects is that you have to pay them after 4 years, and you really need to decide if you want to after only 3 years or lose them for nothing. you're basically paying to train someone, and you have to guesstimate if it's gonna be worth investing even more money in them before they even produce for you.

Nobody wants to come here anyway. Plenty of room to extend frank

There is also no one worth signing hitting the market next summer

[melo4three]

While I do agree somewhat to the above statement on frank. I do believe part of the problem was the Knicks treating frank like a US/AAU player thinking he was just going to play like a wolf. Everyone developed differently. Frank was always a project and instead of always trying to find some garbage ass replacement that could score more (Burke/mudiay/jack). They should of just let frank be frank and coach him and let him develop through mistakes. Early hooks and lack of confidence won’t get him to the wolf we saw during FIBA. Confidence from teammates and coaching staff did.

yeah but, being a project (skills wise) and being timid may very well be separate issues. I don't know if you can coach up someones personality. Either you have that fire in your belly or you don't. He even shot a poor percentage with the french team. I think his defense was more locked in than I ever saw it. In the past he'd have a very good sequence or two but, was never locked in for the whole game. In essence, we didn't see anything that we didn't already know about Frank other than a more consistent defensive presence.

We didn't see anything we didn't already know?

I think that is an inaccurate assessment of Frank's FIBA performance. He had multiple double digit scoring games, he was a lot more aggressive off the dribble and a better finisher around the rim. He shot FT's at a higher rate. He shot 3's more frequently and more accurately.

If he showed nothing different, he wouldn't have scored more, his performance would not be a major story coming out of the World Cup, and 1/2 the old regulars in this thread wouldn't have vanished overnight

He also went 1/7 with 2 pts in a placement game. He has had some good games here and there for the knicks too, but the fact is he was the same inconsistent mess in fiba that he has been for the knicks.

[DOT]

the problem with 3-5 year projects is that you have to pay them after 4 years, and you really need to decide if you want to after only 3 years or lose them for nothing. you're basically paying to train someone, and you have to guesstimate if it's gonna be worth investing even more money in them before they even produce for you.

NBA should work out a way for teams to have guys in the G League for a couple years after being drafted and not take time off their NBA contracts. Like how in the MLB, you can draft a kid at 17, but if he's not ready to play until he's 23 or 24, you still get 7 years of team control on him

Obviously not to that extent, but especially if we're gonna start drafting kids out of high school, being up for a new contract at like 21 in some cases seems too early to make a call, which is why you get scenarios where guys like Wiggins get massively overpaid based off projected value because it's either that or lose them completely at age 23

Thing is is, most guys coming out at the top of the draft don't need that, so it's not really a huge deal, and I can't see the player's union liking giving more control to the owners though.

[GONYK]

yeah but, being a project (skills wise) and being timid may very well be separate issues. I don't know if you can coach up someones personality. Either you have that fire in your belly or you don't. He even shot a poor percentage with the french team. I think his defense was more locked in than I ever saw it. In the past he'd have a very good sequence or two but, was never locked in for the whole game. In essence, we didn't see anything that we didn't already know about Frank other than a more consistent defensive presence.

We didn't see anything we didn't already know?

I think that is an inaccurate assessment of Frank's FIBA performance. He had multiple double digit scoring games, he was a lot more aggressive off the dribble and a better finisher around the rim. He shot FT's at a higher rate. He shot 3's more frequently and more accurately.

If he showed nothing different, he wouldn't have scored more, his performance would not be a major story coming out of the World Cup, and 1/2 the old regulars in this thread wouldn't have vanished overnight

He also went 1/7 with 2 pts in a placement game. He has had some good games here and there for the knicks too, but the fact is he was the same inconsistent mess in fiba that he has been for the knicks.

He only played 16 mins and he kept shooting. We're talking about aggression.

If guys want to start going down the road of knocking the young guys for inconsistency with their shooting, it's going to be a very long season on this board for every kid on the roster.

There is no way anyone who watched the games could leave with the impression that Frank hasn't shown improvement across the board from last season.

It's now just a matter of if he can carry it over.

[Knicksfan1992]

the problem with 3-5 year projects is that you have to pay them after 4 years, and you really need to decide if you want to after only 3 years or lose them for nothing. you're basically paying to train someone, and you have to guesstimate if it's gonna be worth investing even more money in them before they even produce for you.

NBA should work out a way for teams to have guys in the G League for a couple years after being drafted and not take time off their NBA contracts. Like how in the MLB, you can draft a kid at 17, but if he's not ready to play until he's 23 or 24, you still get 7 years of team control on him

Obviously not to that extent, but especially if we're gonna start drafting kids out of high school, being up for a new contract at like 21 in some cases seems too early to make a call, which is why you get scenarios where guys like Wiggins get massively overpaid based off projected value because it's either that or lose them completely at age 23

Thing is is, most guys coming out at the top of the draft don't need that, so it's not really a huge deal, and I can't see the player's union liking giving more control to the owners though.

Honestly though, that's a pretty good compromise as long as the player still gets paid, but it doesn't count on the cap. I don't get this war with the owners that the media and players are trying to wage. NBA is pretty much the gold standard for Salary Cap sports and how players are treated/paid and Owners are profiting.