OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread

[Zenzibar]

Herd immunity is when there are enough people who are immune, mathematically speaking the estimate is every 2 of 3 people or 3 of 4 people, that the virus has less of a chance to spread rampantly. There is a difference in how a population gets to herd immunity that has dramatically different consequences.

If people get a safe and effective vaccination then very few get sick with the actual virus and if they do catch it they overwhelmingly have very little symptoms, little to no long term consequences and very few deaths. Herd immunity is attained this way with the least amount of negative effects as possible.

This natural immunity approach to herd immunity is when that ratio of immune people is reached through people actually getting sick. Every virus or disease is different but if the US were to have tried that with covid it would take over 200 million people getting covid to reach herd immunity not including variants.

That would have resulted in millions of people including children dying of it, tens of millions of people including children having long term and/or life long health issues from it and an overrun heath care system that would have resulted in many more deaths and long term health issues from other people that had other health care needs who couldn't get health care because the hospitals are filled with covid patients.

It's easy to throw around buzzwords like herd immunity and natural immunity thinking it's the rebuttal to getting a vaccine but without understanding what these words mean and the process of them it's not a productive discussion. Are you willing to risk tens of millions of people's including you and your family's lives for it if there's a more safe and effective way to avoid it?

Having to get boosters because of variants or fading immunity, which also is a problem with natural immunity as well, is still a far better way of achieving herd immunity to limit the negative effects on people lives and the society altogether.

So the comment wasn't so stupid. With polio it would be disastrous to attempt the natural immunity method but with something like chicken pox it's not very problematic.

Just something to consider.

Right understood, but you can also reach herd immunity if you have a large segment vaccinated and also many of those not vaccinated have natural antibodies that does the same thing.

That's a better equation than otracizing those that feel that they are strong and fit enough to develop a natural immunity.

I all for 'muh freedumbs' but how is people get sick better? They can choose not to get the jab if that is their inclination and they will have to deal with the consequences of their decisions but don't act like it's a better option to expose themselves and their families to this suffering because they want to own the libs or something. Facts don't care about feelings and the virus doesn't care how strong someone thinks they are.

The more people who catch it unvaxxed increase the number of people who are hospitalized, have short and long term complications and die. The evidence is pretty clear on this, this latest surge of hospitalizations are almost exclusively people who haven't gotten vaccinated and unvaxxed children who have been forced back into school with little to no precautions. People's political posturing is dragging this out worse than it could.

What? Stop it. Some of you just want to bury your heads in the sand in the face of facts and stand by your forced mandates. Reminds me of religious zealots.

These are also facts, people who are fully vaccinatated are just as likely to be hospitalized.

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Of 514 patients in Israel hospitalized with COVID-19 as of Aug. 15, 59 percent were fully vaccinated, according to an Aug. 16 article from Science that cited national data tracked by Israel's largest health management organization. The figures suggest breakthrough infections may be more common than the term implies, the report suggests.

Most of the vaccinated patients who were hospitalized, about 87 percent, were at least 60 years old.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases.

Israel was the first country on Earth to fully vaccinate a majority of its citizens against COVID-19. Now it has one of the world's highest daily infection rates — an average of nearly 7,500 confirmed cases a day, double what it was two weeks ago. Nearly one in every 150 people in Israel today has the virus....

[Clyde_Style]

Right understood, but you can also reach herd immunity if you have a large segment vaccinated and also many of those not vaccinated have natural antibodies that does the same thing.

That's a better equation than otracizing those that feel that they are strong and fit enough to develop a natural immunity.

I all for 'muh freedumbs' but how is people get sick better? They can choose not to get the jab if that is their inclination and they will have to deal with the consequences of their decisions but don't act like it's a better option to expose themselves and their families to this suffering because they want to own the libs or something. Facts don't care about feelings and the virus doesn't care how strong someone thinks they are.

The more people who catch it unvaxxed increase the number of people who are hospitalized, have short and long term complications and die. The evidence is pretty clear on this, this latest surge of hospitalizations are almost exclusively people who haven't gotten vaccinated and unvaxxed children who have been forced back into school with little to no precautions. People's political posturing is dragging this out worse than it could.

What? Stop it. Some of you just want to bury your heads in the sand in the face of facts and stand by your forced mandates. Reminds me of religious zealots.

These are also facts, people who are fully vaccinatated are just as likely to be hospitalized.

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Of 514 patients in Israel hospitalized with COVID-19 as of Aug. 15, 59 percent were fully vaccinated, according to an Aug. 16 article from Science that cited national data tracked by Israel's largest health management organization. The figures suggest breakthrough infections may be more common than the term implies, the report suggests.

Most of the vaccinated patients who were hospitalized, about 87 percent, were at least 60 years old.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases.

Israel was the first country on Earth to fully vaccinate a majority of its citizens against COVID-19. Now it has one of the world's highest daily infection rates — an average of nearly 7,500 confirmed cases a day, double what it was two weeks ago. Nearly one in every 150 people in Israel today has the virus....

I just read the NPR article and there is plenty of data in there that you might want to consider more deeply. I don’t have the time right now to do this so re-read #’s 3 and 4 for starters is my suggestion

[BKlutch]

Right understood, but you can also reach herd immunity if you have a large segment vaccinated and also many of those not vaccinated have natural antibodies that does the same thing.

That's a better equation than otracizing those that feel that they are strong and fit enough to develop a natural immunity.

I all for 'muh freedumbs' but how is people get sick better? They can choose not to get the jab if that is their inclination and they will have to deal with the consequences of their decisions but don't act like it's a better option to expose themselves and their families to this suffering because they want to own the libs or something. Facts don't care about feelings and the virus doesn't care how strong someone thinks they are.

The more people who catch it unvaxxed increase the number of people who are hospitalized, have short and long term complications and die. The evidence is pretty clear on this, this latest surge of hospitalizations are almost exclusively people who haven't gotten vaccinated and unvaxxed children who have been forced back into school with little to no precautions. People's political posturing is dragging this out worse than it could.

What? Stop it. Some of you just want to bury your heads in the sand in the face of facts and stand by your forced mandates. Reminds me of religious zealots.

These are also facts, people who are fully vaccinatated are just as likely to be hospitalized.

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Of 514 patients in Israel hospitalized with COVID-19 as of Aug. 15, 59 percent were fully vaccinated, according to an Aug. 16 article from Science that cited national data tracked by Israel's largest health management organization. The figures suggest breakthrough infections may be more common than the term implies, the report suggests.

Most of the vaccinated patients who were hospitalized, about 87 percent, were at least 60 years old.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases.

Israel was the first country on Earth to fully vaccinate a majority of its citizens against COVID-19. Now it has one of the world's highest daily infection rates — an average of nearly 7,500 confirmed cases a day, double what it was two weeks ago. Nearly one in every 150 people in Israel today has the virus....

Once again, in addition to committing all the mistakes that Clyde and Stupe have pointed out, you just went ahead and made ANOTHER HUGE MISTAKE - you demonstrated you have little understanding of mathematics. So you drew the wrong conclusion from Israel.

Because vaccines only offer partial protection against infection, but even more protection against hospitalization and death, some vaccinated people will get Covid. The higher the % of people who are vaccinated, the higher the % of those who are ill and/or hospitalized will be.

For example, what would happen if everyone were fully vaccinated tomorrow? Then ALL new cases would be among the fully vaxxed. Of course, the hospitalization rate would be far lower and the death rate minuscule, and the virus would stop being transmitted until it could create a worse variant or die out. The fact that all new cases were among the fully vaxxed would not change the fact that it is highly efficacious. And it would not make your understanding of the situation any more accurate.

[Zenzibar]

I all for 'muh freedumbs' but how is people get sick better? They can choose not to get the jab if that is their inclination and they will have to deal with the consequences of their decisions but don't act like it's a better option to expose themselves and their families to this suffering because they want to own the libs or something. Facts don't care about feelings and the virus doesn't care how strong someone thinks they are.

The more people who catch it unvaxxed increase the number of people who are hospitalized, have short and long term complications and die. The evidence is pretty clear on this, this latest surge of hospitalizations are almost exclusively people who haven't gotten vaccinated and unvaxxed children who have been forced back into school with little to no precautions. People's political posturing is dragging this out worse than it could.

What? Stop it. Some of you just want to bury your heads in the sand in the face of facts and stand by your forced mandates. Reminds me of religious zealots.

These are also facts, people who are fully vaccinatated are just as likely to be hospitalized.

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Of 514 patients in Israel hospitalized with COVID-19 as of Aug. 15, 59 percent were fully vaccinated, according to an Aug. 16 article from Science that cited national data tracked by Israel's largest health management organization. The figures suggest breakthrough infections may be more common than the term implies, the report suggests.

Most of the vaccinated patients who were hospitalized, about 87 percent, were at least 60 years old.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases.

Israel was the first country on Earth to fully vaccinate a majority of its citizens against COVID-19. Now it has one of the world's highest daily infection rates — an average of nearly 7,500 confirmed cases a day, double what it was two weeks ago. Nearly one in every 150 people in Israel today has the virus....

Once again, in addition to committing all the mistakes that Clyde and Stupe have pointed out, you just went ahead and made ANOTHER HUGE MISTAKE - you demonstrated you have little understanding of mathematics. So you drew the wrong conclusion from Israel.

Because vaccines only offer partial protection against infection, but even more protection against hospitalization and death, some vaccinated people will get Covid. The higher the % of people who are vaccinated, the higher the % of those who are ill and/or hospitalized will be.

For example, what would happen if everyone were fully vaccinated tomorrow? Then ALL new cases would be among the fully vaxxed. Of course, the hospitalization rate would be far lower and the death rate minuscule, and the virus would stop being transmitted until it could create a worse variant or die out. The fact that all new cases were among the fully vaxxed would not change the fact that it is highly efficacious. And it would not make your understanding of the situation any more accurate.

Absolutely correct. But you know what it's just that the majority of non-vaccers I know just don't trust big pharma and although fully vaccinated, I don't either.
Fauci is a fraud and testing biological components used for warfare is a real thing but some here would deny that and that gets me riled up.

[stuporman]

Right understood, but you can also reach herd immunity if you have a large segment vaccinated and also many of those not vaccinated have natural antibodies that does the same thing.

That's a better equation than otracizing those that feel that they are strong and fit enough to develop a natural immunity.

I all for 'muh freedumbs' but how is people get sick better? They can choose not to get the jab if that is their inclination and they will have to deal with the consequences of their decisions but don't act like it's a better option to expose themselves and their families to this suffering because they want to own the libs or something. Facts don't care about feelings and the virus doesn't care how strong someone thinks they are.

The more people who catch it unvaxxed increase the number of people who are hospitalized, have short and long term complications and die. The evidence is pretty clear on this, this latest surge of hospitalizations are almost exclusively people who haven't gotten vaccinated and unvaxxed children who have been forced back into school with little to no precautions. People's political posturing is dragging this out worse than it could.

What? Stop it. Some of you just want to bury your heads in the sand in the face of facts and stand by your forced mandates. Reminds me of religious zealots.

These are also facts, people who are fully vaccinatated are just as likely to be hospitalized.

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Of 514 patients in Israel hospitalized with COVID-19 as of Aug. 15, 59 percent were fully vaccinated, according to an Aug. 16 article from Science that cited national data tracked by Israel's largest health management organization. The figures suggest breakthrough infections may be more common than the term implies, the report suggests.

Most of the vaccinated patients who were hospitalized, about 87 percent, were at least 60 years old.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases.

Israel was the first country on Earth to fully vaccinate a majority of its citizens against COVID-19. Now it has one of the world's highest daily infection rates — an average of nearly 7,500 confirmed cases a day, double what it was two weeks ago. Nearly one in every 150 people in Israel today has the virus....

I was talking about in the US but another poster has already schooled you on your misunderstanding of the statistical reality of it.

[BKlutch]

What? Stop it. Some of you just want to bury your heads in the sand in the face of facts and stand by your forced mandates. Reminds me of religious zealots.

These are also facts, people who are fully vaccinatated are just as likely to be hospitalized.

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Of 514 patients in Israel hospitalized with COVID-19 as of Aug. 15, 59 percent were fully vaccinated, according to an Aug. 16 article from Science that cited national data tracked by Israel's largest health management organization. The figures suggest breakthrough infections may be more common than the term implies, the report suggests.

Most of the vaccinated patients who were hospitalized, about 87 percent, were at least 60 years old.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases.

Israel was the first country on Earth to fully vaccinate a majority of its citizens against COVID-19. Now it has one of the world's highest daily infection rates — an average of nearly 7,500 confirmed cases a day, double what it was two weeks ago. Nearly one in every 150 people in Israel today has the virus....

Once again, in addition to committing all the mistakes that Clyde and Stupe have pointed out, you just went ahead and made ANOTHER HUGE MISTAKE - you demonstrated you have little understanding of mathematics. So you drew the wrong conclusion from Israel.

Because vaccines only offer partial protection against infection, but even more protection against hospitalization and death, some vaccinated people will get Covid. The higher the % of people who are vaccinated, the higher the % of those who are ill and/or hospitalized will be.

For example, what would happen if everyone were fully vaccinated tomorrow? Then ALL new cases would be among the fully vaxxed. Of course, the hospitalization rate would be far lower and the death rate minuscule, and the virus would stop being transmitted until it could create a worse variant or die out. The fact that all new cases were among the fully vaxxed would not change the fact that it is highly efficacious. And it would not make your understanding of the situation any more accurate.

Absolutely correct. But you know what it's just that the majority of non-vaccers I know just don't trust big pharma and although fully vaccinated, I don't either.
Fauci is a fraud and testing biological components used for warfare is a real thing but some here would deny that and that gets me riled up.

Once again, YOU get riled up that we don't buy into the totally unsubstantiated conspiracy theory that Fauci is a fraud and they're testing "biological components used for warfare" on us? Yeah, I'd say some of us would deny it. Riled up much?

[BKlutch]

As the ancient wise men used to say, "Some people can't tell shìt from Shinola!"

[stuporman]

What? Stop it. Some of you just want to bury your heads in the sand in the face of facts and stand by your forced mandates. Reminds me of religious zealots.

These are also facts, people who are fully vaccinatated are just as likely to be hospitalized.

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Of 514 patients in Israel hospitalized with COVID-19 as of Aug. 15, 59 percent were fully vaccinated, according to an Aug. 16 article from Science that cited national data tracked by Israel's largest health management organization. The figures suggest breakthrough infections may be more common than the term implies, the report suggests.

Most of the vaccinated patients who were hospitalized, about 87 percent, were at least 60 years old.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases.

Israel was the first country on Earth to fully vaccinate a majority of its citizens against COVID-19. Now it has one of the world's highest daily infection rates — an average of nearly 7,500 confirmed cases a day, double what it was two weeks ago. Nearly one in every 150 people in Israel today has the virus....

Once again, in addition to committing all the mistakes that Clyde and Stupe have pointed out, you just went ahead and made ANOTHER HUGE MISTAKE - you demonstrated you have little understanding of mathematics. So you drew the wrong conclusion from Israel.

Because vaccines only offer partial protection against infection, but even more protection against hospitalization and death, some vaccinated people will get Covid. The higher the % of people who are vaccinated, the higher the % of those who are ill and/or hospitalized will be.

For example, what would happen if everyone were fully vaccinated tomorrow? Then ALL new cases would be among the fully vaxxed. Of course, the hospitalization rate would be far lower and the death rate minuscule, and the virus would stop being transmitted until it could create a worse variant or die out. The fact that all new cases were among the fully vaxxed would not change the fact that it is highly efficacious. And it would not make your understanding of the situation any more accurate.

Absolutely correct. But you know what it's just that the majority of non-vaccers I know just don't trust big pharma and although fully vaccinated, I don't either.
Fauci is a fraud and testing biological components used for warfare is a real thing but some here would deny that and that gets me riled up.

The politicians and people politicizing every aspect of the pandemic and spreading misinformation on social media, threatening teachers, medical workers and service industry workers are not just frauds, they are despicable, dangerous people.

Big pharma also makes Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, too, but that doesn't stop people from believing in those unproven things. It's political posturing and magical thinking with much of this.

How the US acts around the world with their military, meddling in elections, involved in coups and how it's funding or arming of sketchy groups in every corner if it were another country doing it the US govt would call them a terrorist state and war criminals.

[BKlutch]

The politicians and people politicizing every aspect of the pandemic and spreading misinformation on social media, threatening teachers, medical workers and service industry workers are not just frauds, they are despicable, dangerous people.

Big pharma also makes Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, too, but that doesn't stop people from believing in those unproven things. It's political posturing and magical thinking with much of this.
...

Wait, Big Pharma makes Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, too? Man, I'm going back to bleach!

[stuporman]

The politicians and people politicizing every aspect of the pandemic and spreading misinformation on social media, threatening teachers, medical workers and service industry workers are not just frauds, they are despicable, dangerous people.

Big pharma also makes Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, too, but that doesn't stop people from believing in those unproven things. It's political posturing and magical thinking with much of this.
...

Wait, Big Pharma makes Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, too? Man, I'm going back to bleach!

Big bleach nods approvingly...

[Jalen Bluntson]

Herd immunity is when there are enough people who are immune, mathematically speaking the estimate is every 2 of 3 people or 3 of 4 people, that the virus has less of a chance to spread rampantly. There is a difference in how a population gets to herd immunity that has dramatically different consequences.

If people get a safe and effective vaccination then very few get sick with the actual virus and if they do catch it they overwhelmingly have very little symptoms, little to no long term consequences and very few deaths. Herd immunity is attained this way with the least amount of negative effects as possible.

This natural immunity approach to herd immunity is when that ratio of immune people is reached through people actually getting sick. Every virus or disease is different but if the US were to have tried that with covid it would take over 200 million people getting covid to reach herd immunity not including variants.

That would have resulted in millions of people including children dying of it, tens of millions of people including children having long term and/or life long health issues from it and an overrun heath care system that would have resulted in many more deaths and long term health issues from other people that had other health care needs who couldn't get health care because the hospitals are filled with covid patients.

It's easy to throw around buzzwords like herd immunity and natural immunity thinking it's the rebuttal to getting a vaccine but without understanding what these words mean and the process of them it's not a productive discussion. Are you willing to risk tens of millions of people's including you and your family's lives for it if there's a more safe and effective way to avoid it?

Having to get boosters because of variants or fading immunity, which also is a problem with natural immunity as well, is still a far better way of achieving herd immunity to limit the negative effects on people lives and the society altogether.

So the comment wasn't so stupid. With polio it would be disastrous to attempt the natural immunity method but with something like chicken pox it's not very problematic.

Just something to consider.

Right understood, but you can also reach herd immunity if you have a large segment vaccinated and also many of those not vaccinated have natural antibodies that does the same thing.

That's a better equation than otracizing those that feel that they are strong and fit enough to develop a natural immunity.

I all for 'muh freedumbs' but how is people get sick better? They can choose not to get the jab if that is their inclination and they will have to deal with the consequences of their decisions but don't act like it's a better option to expose themselves and their families to this suffering because they want to own the libs or something. Facts don't care about feelings and the virus doesn't care how strong someone thinks they are.

The more people who catch it unvaxxed increase the number of people who are hospitalized, have short and long term complications and die. The evidence is pretty clear on this, this latest surge of hospitalizations are almost exclusively people who haven't gotten vaccinated and unvaxxed children who have been forced back into school with little to no precautions. People's political posturing is dragging this out worse than it could.

Who said it was better not to get vaccinated? I simply asked why you scientists keep disregarding natural immunity. It is ridiculous. Also.... MILLIONS of people have had the disease and didn't even know it. So...what is the actual difference? You can get it even if vaccinated. So you are still carrying and spreading the disease.

Not once did I mention politics or anything of that nature. I simply stated facts and you people jumped all over it as if you have more info than anyone else. Newsflash...you don't.

The more people who get vaccinated on top of the people who already have it...and herd immunity should be achieved faster than expected. Common sense. Basic logic.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Yes, we see that. And most here who have engaged with you in this thread have made an effort to help you sort out your concerns regarding covid. So while you’re wrangling with data you still don’t always process fully how about you refrain from making irresponsible statements about how we should all just do the herd immunity mambo? You’re still trying to figure out your own situation and are in no position to advocate something you clearly barely understand

Wrong. I'm stating that with people getting Covid and people getting vaccinated. Herd immunity should arrive sooner than later. Which is a fact. The disease is not being eradicated by any means. It will run through everyone at some point. Vaccine or not. Currently all the vaccine does is lessen the symptoms and POSSIBLY slow the spread a little. So...you people need to stop acting like this is polio and a polio vaccine with your ridiculous comments. It is only fatal to high risk people and a minute percentage of healthy people. Stop acting like it's polio or the mumps or whatever. It is none of those. False equivalence. Period.

The goal isn't just to get to herd immunity, it's to limit the number of people getting covid completely or if they do get it limit the amount of deaths and long term health consequences. "Herd immunity" is simply a byproduct of a majority of the population having antibodies for at least a certain amount of time if it can't be permanently without them suffering short and long term health consequences.

The difference is how we get to it and the consequences of the different methods is what I explained but you still don't seem to comprehend it's more important than just getting to it. You complain about other acting like experts then you go ahead and do it yourself while being factually inaccurate about your statements.

You say "all the vaccine does is lessen the symptoms and POSSIBLY slow the spread a little", which is flat out wrong. It prevent contracting it in many as well. The hospitals report it's like 99% of the admittances are unvaccinated, this is clearly demonstrating if you dont want to end up in the hospital get the vaccine, it's not complicated.

You keep posting and showing how ill informed you are about all of this including what other are saying to you. This much is abundantly clear.

The only thing abundantly clear is your lack of reading comprehension. The vaccine is NOT preventing the spread. Period. So...while it may POSSIBLY slow it down...Al it really does is lessen the severity of the virus. This is proven fact.

[stuporman]

Right understood, but you can also reach herd immunity if you have a large segment vaccinated and also many of those not vaccinated have natural antibodies that does the same thing.

That's a better equation than otracizing those that feel that they are strong and fit enough to develop a natural immunity.

I all for 'muh freedumbs' but how is people get sick better? They can choose not to get the jab if that is their inclination and they will have to deal with the consequences of their decisions but don't act like it's a better option to expose themselves and their families to this suffering because they want to own the libs or something. Facts don't care about feelings and the virus doesn't care how strong someone thinks they are.

The more people who catch it unvaxxed increase the number of people who are hospitalized, have short and long term complications and die. The evidence is pretty clear on this, this latest surge of hospitalizations are almost exclusively people who haven't gotten vaccinated and unvaxxed children who have been forced back into school with little to no precautions. People's political posturing is dragging this out worse than it could.

Who said it was better not to get vaccinated? I simply asked why you scientists keep disregarding natural immunity. It is ridiculous. Also.... MILLIONS of people have had the disease and didn't even know it. So...what is the actual difference? You can get it even if vaccinated. So you are still carrying and spreading the disease.

Not once did I mention politics or anything of that nature. I simply stated facts and you people jumped all over it as if you have more info than anyone else. Newsflash...you don't.

The more people who get vaccinated on top of the people who already have it...and herd immunity should be achieved faster than expected. Common sense. Basic logic.

Oh... I get it, you're trolling now because there isn't any way someone can be so disingenuous and expect people to take them seriously. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Clyde_Style]

Wrong. I'm stating that with people getting Covid and people getting vaccinated. Herd immunity should arrive sooner than later. Which is a fact. The disease is not being eradicated by any means. It will run through everyone at some point. Vaccine or not. Currently all the vaccine does is lessen the symptoms and POSSIBLY slow the spread a little. So...you people need to stop acting like this is polio and a polio vaccine with your ridiculous comments. It is only fatal to high risk people and a minute percentage of healthy people. Stop acting like it's polio or the mumps or whatever. It is none of those. False equivalence. Period.

The goal isn't just to get to herd immunity, it's to limit the number of people getting covid completely or if they do get it limit the amount of deaths and long term health consequences. "Herd immunity" is simply a byproduct of a majority of the population having antibodies for at least a certain amount of time if it can't be permanently without them suffering short and long term health consequences.

The difference is how we get to it and the consequences of the different methods is what I explained but you still don't seem to comprehend it's more important than just getting to it. You complain about other acting like experts then you go ahead and do it yourself while being factually inaccurate about your statements.

You say "all the vaccine does is lessen the symptoms and POSSIBLY slow the spread a little", which is flat out wrong. It prevent contracting it in many as well. The hospitals report it's like 99% of the admittances are unvaccinated, this is clearly demonstrating if you dont want to end up in the hospital get the vaccine, it's not complicated.

You keep posting and showing how ill informed you are about all of this including what other are saying to you. This much is abundantly clear.

The only thing abundantly clear is your lack of reading comprehension. The vaccine is NOT preventing the spread. Period. So...while it may POSSIBLY slow it down...Al it really does is lessen the severity of the virus. This is proven fact.

Saying Fact. Period. Without actual facts. Proves only that you like to say Fact. Period.

[Clyde_Style]

What? Stop it. Some of you just want to bury your heads in the sand in the face of facts and stand by your forced mandates. Reminds me of religious zealots.

These are also facts, people who are fully vaccinatated are just as likely to be hospitalized.

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Of 514 patients in Israel hospitalized with COVID-19 as of Aug. 15, 59 percent were fully vaccinated, according to an Aug. 16 article from Science that cited national data tracked by Israel's largest health management organization. The figures suggest breakthrough infections may be more common than the term implies, the report suggests.

Most of the vaccinated patients who were hospitalized, about 87 percent, were at least 60 years old.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases.

Israel was the first country on Earth to fully vaccinate a majority of its citizens against COVID-19. Now it has one of the world's highest daily infection rates — an average of nearly 7,500 confirmed cases a day, double what it was two weeks ago. Nearly one in every 150 people in Israel today has the virus....

Once again, in addition to committing all the mistakes that Clyde and Stupe have pointed out, you just went ahead and made ANOTHER HUGE MISTAKE - you demonstrated you have little understanding of mathematics. So you drew the wrong conclusion from Israel.

Because vaccines only offer partial protection against infection, but even more protection against hospitalization and death, some vaccinated people will get Covid. The higher the % of people who are vaccinated, the higher the % of those who are ill and/or hospitalized will be.

For example, what would happen if everyone were fully vaccinated tomorrow? Then ALL new cases would be among the fully vaxxed. Of course, the hospitalization rate would be far lower and the death rate minuscule, and the virus would stop being transmitted until it could create a worse variant or die out. The fact that all new cases were among the fully vaxxed would not change the fact that it is highly efficacious. And it would not make your understanding of the situation any more accurate.

Absolutely correct. But you know what it's just that the majority of non-vaccers I know just don't trust big pharma and although fully vaccinated, I don't either.
Fauci is a fraud and testing biological components used for warfare is a real thing but some here would deny that and that gets me riled up.

When in doubt play the conspiracy card

[HarthorneWingo]

Play the song while reading the meme for the ultimate Twilight Zone experience.

Watch on YouTube

[Barcs]

People are talking about natural immunity, but the problem with that is that it fades over time and requires you first getting the virus. It's not a smart strategy to fight covid, essentially it's meaningless to even state. Of course catching the virus will give you temporary immunity to it, but it can also kill you or cause you long term negative effects.

You can't achieve herd immunity or eliminate this virus via natural immunity unless you sacrifice hundreds of thousands if not millions of more people. These anti-vaxxers are basically a giant petri dish for this virus to continue evolving, and then people wonder why vaccinated are still getting infected with variants like Delta and Mu that can much more easily transmit to others, and we'll likely need another vaccine just to combat that. Then by the time we get that vaccine, more variants will have arisen thanks to those same **** sharing this virus indefinitely without a care in the world for other people.

[Clyde_Style]

People are talking about natural immunity, but the problem with that is that it fades over time and requires you first getting the virus. It's not a smart strategy to fight covid, essentially it's meaningless to even state. Of course catching the virus will give you temporary immunity to it, but it can also kill you or cause you long term negative effects.

You can't achieve herd immunity or eliminate this virus via natural immunity unless you sacrifice hundreds of thousands if not millions of more people. These anti-vaxxers are basically a giant petri dish for this virus to continue evolving, and then people wonder why vaccinated are still getting infected with variants like Delta and Mu that can much more easily transmit to others, and we'll likely need another vaccine just to combat that. Then by the time we get that vaccine, more variants will have arisen thanks to those same **** sharing this virus indefinitely without a care in the world for other people.

Amen

I find the oblivious omission of long COVID quite telling. We’re years away from knowing the full brunt of these infections and how many lives will be lived in suffering due to the side effects

The brutality of this virus seems to escape some people who fail to grasp that even after you eradicate the active viral loads from the body COVID often continues its damage if your own immune system’s signals were impaired and no longer able to sense the threat is gone and keeps producing killer cells that ravage organs like kidneys and livers

[HarthorneWingo]

Ivermectin overdose

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[BKlutch]

People are talking about natural immunity, but the problem with that is that it fades over time and requires you first getting the virus. It's not a smart strategy to fight covid, essentially it's meaningless to even state. Of course catching the virus will give you temporary immunity to it, but it can also kill you or cause you long term negative effects.

You can't achieve herd immunity or eliminate this virus via natural immunity unless you sacrifice hundreds of thousands if not millions of more people. These anti-vaxxers are basically a giant petri dish for this virus to continue evolving, and then people wonder why vaccinated are still getting infected with variants like Delta and Mu that can much more easily transmit to others, and we'll likely need another vaccine just to combat that. Then by the time we get that vaccine, more variants will have arisen thanks to those same **** sharing this virus indefinitely without a care in the world for other people.

Your unfortunate nick aside, what you say is all quite true.