PG: Knicks-Suns, where the SL squad plays basketball better

[cgmw]

This board is becoming unreadable.

PG threads = trade proposals + draft regrets

Why are people so miserable?

Spoiler:

I like to be miserable about others being miserable

[FrozenEnvelope]

I'm guessing most of you didn't want CP3 either?

[Marty McFly]

Read on Twitter

ON THE ROAD TO 10-82!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

big yikes. this is legitimately embarrasing.

[god shammgod]

What’s his trade value like? Culvakina for RJ?

Read on Twitter

he's shooting 38 percent & 32 from 3. it aint a rough couple games, it's a rough season so far. this is worse than his rookie numbers. you aint getting sh*t right now.

[3toheadmelo]

What’s his trade value like? Culvakina for RJ?

Read on Twitter

he's shooting 38 & 32 from 3. it aint a rough couple games, it's a rough season so far. this is worse than his rookie numbers.

It’s looking like we should’ve traded down for your guy Garland

[3toheadmelo]

The game thread ain’t even locked

[robillionaire]

What’s his trade value like? Culvakina for RJ?

Read on Twitter

he's shooting 38 & 32 from 3. it aint a rough couple games, it's a rough season so far. this is worse than his rookie numbers.

It’s looking like we should’ve traded down for your guy Garland

We could offer No-J and 4 unprotected firsts for Herro and the heat would hang up laughing

[god shammgod]

What’s his trade value like? Culvakina for RJ?

Read on Twitter

he's shooting 38 & 32 from 3. it aint a rough couple games, it's a rough season so far. this is worse than his rookie numbers.

It’s looking like we should’ve traded down for your guy Garland

yep. and they got a bunch of good young talent. they aint trying to win on the backs of a bunch of rent-a-vets. they'll probably be better than us by next year. actually might be this year. they lost a bunch in a row because mobley was out and have only one less win than us. he's back today i think.

[god shammgod]

The game thread ain’t even locked

mods giving the same level of effort as the knicks. sad.

[prophet_of_rage]

1) I agree Vassel and Bey are better than Obi. Haliburton too. They are easier fits. They are very solid 3&D players.

2) I don't agree with the "position themselves talk". We were aiming for the playoffs. And probably would be too expensive to move up in the draft. Furthermore, we only missed Maxey for 2 spots. And we would never know if we could have IQ with #33. We probably would have to choose between IQ and Maxey.

3) There were not a lot of younger guards left on the draft at #33. Only Saben Lee and Tre Jones. They look like good players. But they are still struggling for minutes in tanking teams for more than one year. It was not a great opportunist cost. If we have grabbed one of them, we would not have the need/roster spot to draft Deuce.

There were certainly some good players around the area of Grimes, McBride and Jokoitchbitus.
Again, the Knicks made moves in the context of some future payday.
Grimes seems decent, McBride seems decent in the context of SL/preseason.

My point is the Knicks were drafting BADLY with Frank and Knox. Those two drafts set the Knicks back at least two years and possibly more, in terms of building the team. Now, it's like time travel here, because if they weren't bad, then Knicks don't draft #3, but the Knicks got VERY unlucky drafting high in a weak draft, and wound up with one of the most uncompelling #3 picks in YEARS.

But the Knicks made the ordinary pick in RJ, which is fine. Most of the league would have done that. A genius level move would have been to trade back.

You know, I'm kind of beating this to death. The Knicks draft poorly because they lack vision. They lack vision because a) The FO's are bad (Isiah, Phil, Mills, Mills Perry) b) The FO's are always changing. See prior list.

Which probably goes back to Dolan. Dolan never hires the right guys in the first place, going back, what, 18 years? He replaces them, so it's always a new group trying a slightly different strategy, while also having to "prove something" to Dolan to stay employed, so they chase shorter term results, either on their own or at his mandate.

The RJ draft though this one is an example. RJ is a JAG. It happens. So, a team with vision should be tanking hard. They should look at the upcoming drafts and know that the 2019 isn't that strong after the very top, but that the 2020 draft is fairly strong in a deep way.

So, they wind up not tanking hard enough to get the difference makers in the 2019 draft, or making any sort of trade etc to get a difference maker (Edwards, Ball) - and yes, I would have traded RJ here. That same team would know that 2020 is the draft to tank for, but KNicks decide to "win to impress"

Hey, at least Rose & Co have a vision and they are pretty much going about it. Maybe Dolan lets them have enough time and continuity to go about it. A better org would have had a better plan due to better continuity, a few years ago, and we wouldn't need to have the "big time FA" rescue us.

Also, mainly I'm just riffing that RJ isn't that great and Knicks would suddenly have to being batting .1000 on every single pick to make up for frank/know/rj, but that's not realistic because no team does, just randomly every year some team gets really lucky/makes a great move in the draft and it's NEVER the Knicks. Ever.

1) I agree that Knox and Frank were terrible picks. RJ is underwhelming but every team would choose him.

2) I don't think you can blame Dolan for all our unfortunate fate. He chooses FA that knows the business. Were there too many red flags on their names before they were signed? I did not know Phils would be a terrible president, for instance.

3) We could not have tanked in 2019. We had too much cap space to just tank. We sold our best player to land stars. You built a great hype. After we lost the possibility to grab a star, we had to sign the best players available. They were a bad fit. But they were not too bad players. Randle, Morris, Bullock, Taj (although overpaid), and even Portis (he showed us playing for the Bucks) were solid additions. Payton was good for his price tag and by the fact, we did not have any decent PG in the team.

You had to know Phil was not going to be good.

The year we ended up with RJ our sellout streak also ended. That was the end of tanking for Dolan.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[prophet_of_rage]

I'm guessing most of you didn't want CP3 either?

Correct. He was too old.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[thebuzzardman]

wait buzz, you forgot to slander RJ in this post. do better

I got around to it in the next post, where Maplefrid Payton got another JAG delineation.

Too bad for RJ. He's a really good guy, great head on his shoulders and plays with a mentality where he can and should be part of a winning team(s). He's just a very ordinary, if below average NBA starter. He's not THE problem with the Knicks but he's certainly ONE of the problems. If he's starting. And he is.

tbh I think one of the reason he struggles shooting and finishing could be the amount of energy he needs to spend chasing the best perimeter players around screens and also crashing the boards. he doesn't have enough left to get good shots off. but I still don't question his talents, tho. we should have kept or signed a 3 and d guy instead of fournier or walker.

Here's the rub though.

Since RJ lacks baseline level "good" wing skills, Knicks were forced to go for a wing with abilities to make up for RJ. Meaning, a 3&D wing would put them back at last year's team, which frankly, really wasn't that good.

Now, would DeRozan have been better than Fournier? Yes. Or the extra year (is it?) for Powell or Trent Jr? Absolutely. And I'm not sure Trent Jr, while younger, has enough driving creation to make up for RJ.

Honestly, it looks like the Knicks would have been better off paying Schroeder whatever he wanted and bring back Bullocks for 3 instead of 2 years. Or overpaying Bullocks for a 2 year deal.

Schroeder
RJ
Bullocks
Randle
Mitch or Noel

Not much better than last year's team, but a LITTLE better. But without the extra year of Fournier.

But the Knicks had to have Fournier and washed Kemba, which I did support because I know Fournier can't defend but he's good offensively - or can be, while Kemba I just didn't realize how terrible a defender he is.

But, Fournier and Kemba is bad. Founier and Kemba, whose strengths are offense and not defense but who kind of need to have the ball and then move it around with other like minded players, are are terrible fit with Randle, who, to be fair, plays a way that is also hard to build around.

Basically, the Knicks FO, realizing (not sure, they are sort of dumb) that Randle and RJ present issues with team building, go out and get among the worst possible fits next to them.

Hmm. Who has been here for several years and during that time the Knicks roster has been marked by ill fitting pieces?

Hint: "It's Howdy Doody time, it's Howdy Doody time..."

[robillionaire]

I think we just need to accept the team will be average at best until a big trade happens. Might even be in the lottery and might be a couple years too. Temper expectations

Knicks haven't made a big trade to improve the team since acquiring Carmelo Anthony.

They had an excellent trade asset in KP but were gun shy when his value was super high.

Knicks have to make a move before teams are only calling about Quickley. I think Randle as the centerpiece with a young player and a 1st can get you something nice on the trade market.

Then what? What nice? Dame won't want to come to a worse team at age 31. Randle is a negative asset with 4 1/2 more years, we're going to have to attach a 1st to get back an expiring deal.

Welcome to hell.

We’ve been in hell for over 20 years, still trying to dig our way out and not really getting anywhere

I actually don’t blame people if they quit watching this team, there’s nothing enjoyable about it, it’s a franchise for people who hate themselves and like to be mad all the time

[thebuzzardman]

This board is becoming unreadable.

PG threads = trade proposals + draft regrets

Why are people so miserable?

Spoiler:

I like to be miserable about others being miserable

My posts contain speculation that poor drafting leads back to Dolan. You should be thrilled.

[god shammgod]

i love myself. it's all of you that i hate.

[3toheadmelo]

Next time the Knicks draft a wing he better be able to create off the dribble and shoot off the dribble. I ain’t never seen a player develop those skills at a high level out of nowhere. RJ is looking like a poor mans Evan Turner right now. Sad

[thebuzzardman]

There were certainly some good players around the area of Grimes, McBride and Jokoitchbitus.
Again, the Knicks made moves in the context of some future payday.
Grimes seems decent, McBride seems decent in the context of SL/preseason.

My point is the Knicks were drafting BADLY with Frank and Knox. Those two drafts set the Knicks back at least two years and possibly more, in terms of building the team. Now, it's like time travel here, because if they weren't bad, then Knicks don't draft #3, but the Knicks got VERY unlucky drafting high in a weak draft, and wound up with one of the most uncompelling #3 picks in YEARS.

But the Knicks made the ordinary pick in RJ, which is fine. Most of the league would have done that. A genius level move would have been to trade back.

You know, I'm kind of beating this to death. The Knicks draft poorly because they lack vision. They lack vision because a) The FO's are bad (Isiah, Phil, Mills, Mills Perry) b) The FO's are always changing. See prior list.

Which probably goes back to Dolan. Dolan never hires the right guys in the first place, going back, what, 18 years? He replaces them, so it's always a new group trying a slightly different strategy, while also having to "prove something" to Dolan to stay employed, so they chase shorter term results, either on their own or at his mandate.

The RJ draft though this one is an example. RJ is a JAG. It happens. So, a team with vision should be tanking hard. They should look at the upcoming drafts and know that the 2019 isn't that strong after the very top, but that the 2020 draft is fairly strong in a deep way.

So, they wind up not tanking hard enough to get the difference makers in the 2019 draft, or making any sort of trade etc to get a difference maker (Edwards, Ball) - and yes, I would have traded RJ here. That same team would know that 2020 is the draft to tank for, but KNicks decide to "win to impress"

Hey, at least Rose & Co have a vision and they are pretty much going about it. Maybe Dolan lets them have enough time and continuity to go about it. A better org would have had a better plan due to better continuity, a few years ago, and we wouldn't need to have the "big time FA" rescue us.

Also, mainly I'm just riffing that RJ isn't that great and Knicks would suddenly have to being batting .1000 on every single pick to make up for frank/know/rj, but that's not realistic because no team does, just randomly every year some team gets really lucky/makes a great move in the draft and it's NEVER the Knicks. Ever.

1) I agree that Knox and Frank were terrible picks. RJ is underwhelming but every team would choose him.

2) I don't think you can blame Dolan for all our unfortunate fate. He chooses FA that knows the business. Were there too many red flags on their names before they were signed? I did not know Phils would be a terrible president, for instance.

3) We could not have tanked in 2019. We had too much cap space to just tank. We sold our best player to land stars. You built a great hype. After we lost the possibility to grab a star, we had to sign the best players available. They were a bad fit. But they were not too bad players. Randle, Morris, Bullock, Taj (although overpaid), and even Portis (he showed us playing for the Bucks) were solid additions. Payton was good for his price tag and by the fact, we did not have any decent PG in the team.

You had to know Phil was not going to be good.

The year we ended up with RJ our sellout streak also ended. That was the end of tanking for Dolan.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Good point.

I'll cop to thinking Phil would be good. I thought that in the context of "Phil has a good bball mind, learned about teams etc from Red Holzman, so IF he can translate the workaday stuff of POBO\GM or have that right hand, he should have a good vision"

I was completely wrong. Or, the "right hand" was Mills. Or both.

[thebuzzardman]

Next time the Knicks draft a wing he better be able to create off the dribble and shoot off the dribble. I ain’t never seen a player develop those skills at a high level out of nowhere. RJ is looking like a poor mans Evan Turner right now. Sad

I'm just mad at myself that I backed off my Evan Turner 2.0 talk for over a year when RJ flashed some numbers due to being force fed the ball and minutes like Maple Kevin Knox. I retreated off the hill I could have died on, only to have to fight to retake the hill.

[thebuzzardman]

What’s his trade value like? Culvakina for RJ?

Read on Twitter

he's shooting 38 percent & 32 from 3. it aint a rough couple games, it's a rough season so far. this is worse than his rookie numbers. you aint getting sh*t right now.

New ball affects shooters with maple syrup residue on their hands the most. Knicks have the worst luck.

[thebuzzardman]

Which one of you wrote this article lol

https://www.inquisitr.com/6499170/nba-rumors-ben-simmons-to-knicks-for-kemba-walker-julius-randle

That's totally GreenArrow.

Claim your work Captain Exclamation Point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!