PG - oh no, we suck again

[thebuzzardman]

Hey, it might be annoying, but I was VERY optimistic about the front office and then this offseason.

If you are an RJ fan, this might be encouraging, because it shows I really don't know sh*t.

Still feel like RJ's not that good. It's not a complicated read.

[god shammgod]

Well, kind of

Lot of fans are too impatient. Just look in here seeing guys sh*tting on RJ not even halfway through year 3. And yeah, odds are he isn't gonna be the guy for us, but he's shown that he could be a really good player

If we don't draft a guy who's a star from day 1, fans aren't patient enough to wait a few years before declaring them a bust.

We wouldn't sh*t on him if he was any good. He's really not.
He's "ok".
I mean, that's fine if he was drafted 20th.
He was drafted 3rd.
It's a setback.
Not as bad a setback as completely whiffing with Frank and Knox, but it's pretty unfortunate coming on the heels of that.

Yeah, I mean 11/4/1.3 on 40/25/62 in his 3rd year is just dreadful

Oh wait, that was Jaylen Brown's first 20 games his 3rd year

RJ's so much worse, just 14/6/2 on 40/31/70 splits... wait a second

He's having a bad year yeah, but y'all are obnoxiously excessive about it. And y'all pretend like he doesn't show flashes, but he does. He's inconsistent (meaning bad right now) but I don't know why y'all are like, so ready to sh*t on draft picks. It's like y'all want them to be bad

I'm fine with people saying he's regressed, cause he has so far, but god damn are y'all just excessively pessimistic about everything. It's like a fetish for you people, you want the Knicks to be bad so you can go "woe is me, I'm such a suffering Knicks fan" and have people pity you. He'll be fine, it'd be one thing if he had looked like this the whole time, but last year he looked pretty good, so it's clear he does have some potential

It's just so annoying that whenever RJ misses a shot, the next page and a half of any game thread is unreadable. Y'all give up on guys at every little setback, it's absurd. Nobody's allowed any time to be bad but show flashes, if you're not a star day one, half the fanbase is gonna want you gone. And that's why you can't rebuild in New York.

i don't really want to talk about rj. but for every guy who started year 3 bad and became sort of a star, there's 4 guys who didn't. what you're basically saying is "because this 1 guy did it, it's possible rj can do it". well sure. it'd still be possible if nobody had ever done it. it just doesn't seem likely.

but i do agree that this place has become sort of a toxic soup of agendas and overreactions to every play. it honestly is annoying at this point. the game threads are getting pretty bad. i don't know why it has gotten this bad but it has.

[TerrenceClarke]

Thibs Could Neva....

[thebuzzardman]

We wouldn't sh*t on him if he was any good. He's really not.
He's "ok".
I mean, that's fine if he was drafted 20th.
He was drafted 3rd.
It's a setback.
Not as bad a setback as completely whiffing with Frank and Knox, but it's pretty unfortunate coming on the heels of that.

Yeah, I mean 11/4/1.3 on 40/25/62 in his 3rd year is just dreadful

Oh wait, that was Jaylen Brown's first 20 games his 3rd year

RJ's so much worse, just 14/6/2 on 40/31/70 splits... wait a second

He's having a bad year yeah, but y'all are obnoxiously excessive about it. And y'all pretend like he doesn't show flashes, but he does. He's inconsistent (meaning bad right now) but I don't know why y'all are like, so ready to sh*t on draft picks. It's like y'all want them to be bad

I'm fine with people saying he's regressed, cause he has so far, but god damn are y'all just excessively pessimistic about everything. It's like a fetish for you people, you want the Knicks to be bad so you can go "woe is me, I'm such a suffering Knicks fan" and have people pity you. He'll be fine, it'd be one thing if he had looked like this the whole time, but last year he looked pretty good, so it's clear he does have some potential

It's just so annoying that whenever RJ misses a shot, the next page and a half of any game thread is unreadable. Y'all give up on guys at every little setback, it's absurd. Nobody's allowed any time to be bad but show flashes, if you're not a star day one, half the fanbase is gonna want you gone. And that's why you can't rebuild in New York.

The problem with the Knicks is not primarily lack of patience by the fans, but lack of solid talent evaluation by the organization.

A lot of optimistic Knicks fans preached patience with Frank and Knox, quite aggressively and arrogantly in the case of Frank I might add, only for them to become spectacular busts. It never happened with them. A lot of people were upset we traded KP because they thought he was a superstar talent. He wasn't. We had people calling Gallinari and Chandler untouchable a decade ago and saying it's only a matter of time. Well, it wasn't a matter of time - neither one of them became an All-Star (although Gallinari had a solid career - but he was much more talented than RJ).

We've been through it too many times. We hang our hopes on mediocre young talent because the perceived upside (due to their age) is the only source of hope in an otherwise depressing situation. That doesn't mean that patience will make it happen for them.

RJ has regressed from last season, and he wasn't even good last year.

It's not just about the numbers, which are absolutely dreadful across the board, it's also the eye test. Brown has always been an elite athlete. His upside was always higher than RJ because of this. He also showed better touch around the rim. By his third year he was above-average in finishing from 0-3 feet. RJ is still well-below average (7 percentage points below league-average to be exact). Brown showed that he could get efficient shots. RJ hasn't.

RJ just has too many things going against him. A terribly slow first step, below-average athleticism, terrible touch around the rim, an unreliable jumpshot, 0 ability to create off the dribble, a handle that's high and frankly generic. And he's not a difference-maker on the other end either.

I was hoping Perrin would improve the drafting and be representative of a draft department makeover. Who knows, maybe he's helped. The Knicks kind of don't hit it enough where I wish they would have fired everyone with scout somewhere in their title when Rose & Co took over. Then again, when the decisions are then given to a 5 man committee with Perry and Thibs on it, could have the ghost of Red Auerbach making suggestions and it'd probably be hopeless.

[BugginOut]

Here’s the video!!!!!!!!!

Read on Twitter

We’ll damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I heard this live and I had to do a double take. Not great coming from Thibs.

I’m a huge RJ supporter, and most fans will give him a pass if he is putting in the work. But if New Yorkers hate one thing, it is guys that they see not putting in the extra hours. Since RJ has a reputation as a worker I’m going to assume that maybe Thibs didn’t mean to be critical and he was talking in a general sort of way that he needs to keep working.

But now that this is out there RJ needs to start playing better sooner than later because this city will turn on him in an instant

[Chanel Bomber]

Yeah, I mean 11/4/1.3 on 40/25/62 in his 3rd year is just dreadful

Oh wait, that was Jaylen Brown's first 20 games his 3rd year

RJ's so much worse, just 14/6/2 on 40/31/70 splits... wait a second

He's having a bad year yeah, but y'all are obnoxiously excessive about it. And y'all pretend like he doesn't show flashes, but he does. He's inconsistent (meaning bad right now) but I don't know why y'all are like, so ready to sh*t on draft picks. It's like y'all want them to be bad

I'm fine with people saying he's regressed, cause he has so far, but god damn are y'all just excessively pessimistic about everything. It's like a fetish for you people, you want the Knicks to be bad so you can go "woe is me, I'm such a suffering Knicks fan" and have people pity you. He'll be fine, it'd be one thing if he had looked like this the whole time, but last year he looked pretty good, so it's clear he does have some potential

It's just so annoying that whenever RJ misses a shot, the next page and a half of any game thread is unreadable. Y'all give up on guys at every little setback, it's absurd. Nobody's allowed any time to be bad but show flashes, if you're not a star day one, half the fanbase is gonna want you gone. And that's why you can't rebuild in New York.

The problem with the Knicks is not primarily lack of patience by the fans, but lack of solid talent evaluation by the organization.

A lot of optimistic Knicks fans preached patience with Frank and Knox, quite aggressively and arrogantly in the case of Frank I might add, only for them to become spectacular busts. It never happened with them. A lot of people were upset we traded KP because they thought he was a superstar talent. He wasn't. We had people calling Gallinari and Chandler untouchable a decade ago and saying it's only a matter of time. Well, it wasn't a matter of time - neither one of them became an All-Star (although Gallinari had a solid career - but he was much more talented than RJ).

We've been through it too many times. We hang our hopes on mediocre young talent because the perceived upside (due to their age) is the only source of hope in an otherwise depressing situation. That doesn't mean that patience will make it happen for them.

RJ has regressed from last season, and he wasn't even good last year.

It's not just about the numbers, which are absolutely dreadful across the board, it's also the eye test. Brown has always been an elite athlete. His upside was always higher than RJ because of this. He also showed better touch around the rim. By his third year he was above-average in finishing from 0-3 feet. RJ is still well-below average (7 percentage points below league-average to be exact). Brown showed that he could get efficient shots. RJ hasn't.

RJ just has too many things going against him. A terribly slow first step, below-average athleticism, terrible touch around the rim, an unreliable jumpshot, 0 ability to create off the dribble, a handle that's high and frankly generic. And he's not a difference-maker on the other end either.

I was hoping Perrin would improve the drafting and be representative of a draft department makeover. Who knows, maybe he's helped. The Knicks kind of don't hit it enough where I wish they would have fired everyone with scout somewhere in their title when Rose & Co took over. Then again, when the decisions are then given to a 5 man committee with Perry and Thibs on it, could have the ghost of Red Auerbach making suggestions and it'd probably be hopeless.

I don't know.

Our best draft pick the last few years has been IQ (you can make the case for Mitch based on where he was drafted), and that was a WWW pick.

Obi has shown flashes this year but I'd still take Haliburton over him.

I'm not sure I like the structure of the front office.

[thebuzzardman]

One day, in the summer of 1968, Clyde Frazier and Red Holzman were in a midtown Manhattan apartment, having just finished drawing a large pentagram on the floor. At each point were candles. They murmured incantations and the beast from hell appeared.
There they sold their souls for two championships and Clyde never having grey hair. It is rumored that in addition to taking their souls in the future, the Knicks would be cursed with no championships for 100 years and also never have a truly talented wing or guard for more than a couple of years at a time.

Sorry guys. Another 48 years to go before the Knicks get that good player who can create.

[BugginOut]

We wouldn't sh*t on him if he was any good. He's really not.
He's "ok".
I mean, that's fine if he was drafted 20th.
He was drafted 3rd.
It's a setback.
Not as bad a setback as completely whiffing with Frank and Knox, but it's pretty unfortunate coming on the heels of that.

Yeah, I mean 11/4/1.3 on 40/25/62 in his 3rd year is just dreadful

Oh wait, that was Jaylen Brown's first 20 games his 3rd year

RJ's so much worse, just 14/6/2 on 40/31/70 splits... wait a second

He's having a bad year yeah, but y'all are obnoxiously excessive about it. And y'all pretend like he doesn't show flashes, but he does. He's inconsistent (meaning bad right now) but I don't know why y'all are like, so ready to sh*t on draft picks. It's like y'all want them to be bad

I'm fine with people saying he's regressed, cause he has so far, but god damn are y'all just excessively pessimistic about everything. It's like a fetish for you people, you want the Knicks to be bad so you can go "woe is me, I'm such a suffering Knicks fan" and have people pity you. He'll be fine, it'd be one thing if he had looked like this the whole time, but last year he looked pretty good, so it's clear he does have some potential

It's just so annoying that whenever RJ misses a shot, the next page and a half of any game thread is unreadable. Y'all give up on guys at every little setback, it's absurd. Nobody's allowed any time to be bad but show flashes, if you're not a star day one, half the fanbase is gonna want you gone. And that's why you can't rebuild in New York.

i don't really want to talk about rj. but for every guy who started year 3 bad and became sort of a star, there's 4 guys who didn't. what you're basically saying is "because this 1 guy did it, it's possible rj can do it". well sure. it'd still be possible if nobody had ever done it. it just doesn't seem likely.

but i do agree that this place has become sort of a toxic soup of agendas and overreactions to every play. it honestly is annoying at this point. the game threads are getting pretty bad. i don't know why it has gotten this bad but it has.

It’s because everyone fronted like it would be okay if we take a step back because the East got better, but deep down everyone want this team to take another leap.

It’s human nature. We set the bar high at the 4th seed. Even if we crawl back to the 5th seed and take a team to a game 7 first round exit, people will say we disappointed.

The team and the fans had the expectation of 2nd round or bust and right now we are looking like first round fodder for the Bucks or the Nets. Assuming we even make the playoffs

[robillionaire]

And if that's the case it's bs if Dolan then. Not us Knick fans

"You can't rebuild in NY" they say that bc the fans are impatient but nearly the entire fan base would be on board with it. So what are we really talking about here? Gotta be Dolan

Well, kind of

Lot of fans are too impatient. Just look in here seeing guys sh*tting on RJ not even halfway through year 3. And yeah, odds are he isn't gonna be the guy for us, but he's shown that he could be a really good player

If we don't draft a guy who's a star from day 1, fans aren't patient enough to wait a few years before declaring them a bust.

We wouldn't sh*t on him if he was any good. He's really not.
He's "ok".
I mean, that's fine if he was drafted 20th.
He was drafted 3rd.
It's a setback.
Not as bad a setback as completely whiffing with Frank and Knox, but it's pretty unfortunate coming on the heels of that.

this is just Frank and Knox but with 3 years of extra minutes and unearned opportunities they didn’t get. No way they’re going to re-sign him so hopefully they can get a little something back in a trade package. We are approaching Marvin Bagley on the Kings territory

[thebuzzardman]

Here’s the video!!!!!!!!!

Read on Twitter

We’ll damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I heard this live and I had to do a double take. Not great coming from Thibs.

I’m a huge RJ supporter, and most fans will give him a pass if he is putting in the work. But if New Yorkers hate one thing, it is guys that they see not putting in the extra hours. Since RJ has a reputation as a worker I’m going to assume that maybe Thibs didn’t mean to be critical and he was talking in a general sort of way that he needs to keep working.

But now that this is out there RJ needs to start playing better sooner than later because this city will turn on him in an instant

Didn't people want a coach who held players accountable?
Here it is.
If only Thibs didn't have that troubling "Don't hold Randle accountable" clause.

[thebuzzardman]

We wouldn't sh*t on him if he was any good. He's really not.
He's "ok".
I mean, that's fine if he was drafted 20th.
He was drafted 3rd.
It's a setback.
Not as bad a setback as completely whiffing with Frank and Knox, but it's pretty unfortunate coming on the heels of that.

Yeah, I mean 11/4/1.3 on 40/25/62 in his 3rd year is just dreadful

Oh wait, that was Jaylen Brown's first 20 games his 3rd year

RJ's so much worse, just 14/6/2 on 40/31/70 splits... wait a second

He's having a bad year yeah, but y'all are obnoxiously excessive about it. And y'all pretend like he doesn't show flashes, but he does. He's inconsistent (meaning bad right now) but I don't know why y'all are like, so ready to sh*t on draft picks. It's like y'all want them to be bad

I'm fine with people saying he's regressed, cause he has so far, but god damn are y'all just excessively pessimistic about everything. It's like a fetish for you people, you want the Knicks to be bad so you can go "woe is me, I'm such a suffering Knicks fan" and have people pity you. He'll be fine, it'd be one thing if he had looked like this the whole time, but last year he looked pretty good, so it's clear he does have some potential

It's just so annoying that whenever RJ misses a shot, the next page and a half of any game thread is unreadable. Y'all give up on guys at every little setback, it's absurd. Nobody's allowed any time to be bad but show flashes, if you're not a star day one, half the fanbase is gonna want you gone. And that's why you can't rebuild in New York.

i don't really want to talk about rj. but for every guy who started year 3 bad and became sort of a star, there's 4 guys who didn't. what you're basically saying is "because this 1 guy did it, it's possible rj can do it". well sure. it'd still be possible if nobody had ever done it. it just doesn't seem likely.

but i do agree that this place has become sort of a toxic soup of agendas and overreactions to every play. it honestly is annoying at this point. the game threads are getting pretty bad. i don't know why it has gotten this bad but it has.

You're as reactionary as anyone!

[robillionaire]

Yeah, I mean 11/4/1.3 on 40/25/62 in his 3rd year is just dreadful

Oh wait, that was Jaylen Brown's first 20 games his 3rd year

RJ's so much worse, just 14/6/2 on 40/31/70 splits... wait a second

He's having a bad year yeah, but y'all are obnoxiously excessive about it. And y'all pretend like he doesn't show flashes, but he does. He's inconsistent (meaning bad right now) but I don't know why y'all are like, so ready to sh*t on draft picks. It's like y'all want them to be bad

I'm fine with people saying he's regressed, cause he has so far, but god damn are y'all just excessively pessimistic about everything. It's like a fetish for you people, you want the Knicks to be bad so you can go "woe is me, I'm such a suffering Knicks fan" and have people pity you. He'll be fine, it'd be one thing if he had looked like this the whole time, but last year he looked pretty good, so it's clear he does have some potential

It's just so annoying that whenever RJ misses a shot, the next page and a half of any game thread is unreadable. Y'all give up on guys at every little setback, it's absurd. Nobody's allowed any time to be bad but show flashes, if you're not a star day one, half the fanbase is gonna want you gone. And that's why you can't rebuild in New York.

i don't really want to talk about rj. but for every guy who started year 3 bad and became sort of a star, there's 4 guys who didn't. what you're basically saying is "because this 1 guy did it, it's possible rj can do it". well sure. it'd still be possible if nobody had ever done it. it just doesn't seem likely.

but i do agree that this place has become sort of a toxic soup of agendas and overreactions to every play. it honestly is annoying at this point. the game threads are getting pretty bad. i don't know why it has gotten this bad but it has.

It’s because everyone fronted like it would be okay if we take a step back because the East got better, but deep down everyone want this team to take another leap.

It’s human nature. We set the bar high at the 4th seed. Even if we crawl back to the 5th seed and take a team to a game 7 first round exit, people will say we disappointed.

The team and the fans had the expectation of 2nd round or bust and right now we are looking like first round fodder for the Bucks or the Nets. Assuming we even make the playoffs

I’d be fine with we got into the playoffs as a lower seeded team and lost in the 1st again, but right now we are below .500 and 11th in the East, not even in the play in game, so yeah that’s below even that low bar

[god shammgod]

Yeah, I mean 11/4/1.3 on 40/25/62 in his 3rd year is just dreadful

Oh wait, that was Jaylen Brown's first 20 games his 3rd year

RJ's so much worse, just 14/6/2 on 40/31/70 splits... wait a second

He's having a bad year yeah, but y'all are obnoxiously excessive about it. And y'all pretend like he doesn't show flashes, but he does. He's inconsistent (meaning bad right now) but I don't know why y'all are like, so ready to sh*t on draft picks. It's like y'all want them to be bad

I'm fine with people saying he's regressed, cause he has so far, but god damn are y'all just excessively pessimistic about everything. It's like a fetish for you people, you want the Knicks to be bad so you can go "woe is me, I'm such a suffering Knicks fan" and have people pity you. He'll be fine, it'd be one thing if he had looked like this the whole time, but last year he looked pretty good, so it's clear he does have some potential

It's just so annoying that whenever RJ misses a shot, the next page and a half of any game thread is unreadable. Y'all give up on guys at every little setback, it's absurd. Nobody's allowed any time to be bad but show flashes, if you're not a star day one, half the fanbase is gonna want you gone. And that's why you can't rebuild in New York.

i don't really want to talk about rj. but for every guy who started year 3 bad and became sort of a star, there's 4 guys who didn't. what you're basically saying is "because this 1 guy did it, it's possible rj can do it". well sure. it'd still be possible if nobody had ever done it. it just doesn't seem likely.

but i do agree that this place has become sort of a toxic soup of agendas and overreactions to every play. it honestly is annoying at this point. the game threads are getting pretty bad. i don't know why it has gotten this bad but it has.

It’s because everyone fronted like it would be okay if we take a step back because the East got better, but deep down everyone want this team to take another leap.

It’s human nature. We set the bar high at the 4th seed. Even if we crawl back to the 5th seed and take a team to a game 7 first round exit, people will say we disappointed.

The team and the fans had the expectation of 2nd round or bust and right now we are looking like first round fodder for the Bucks or the Nets. Assuming we even make the playoffs

i don't think most people here even believed that we would take a step back. over the summer they mostly seemed to feel like we would be better. but i do think you're right that their expectations have let them down and they're now lashing out because of that.

[Chanel Bomber]

Our best prospect since Patrick Ewing is still Danilo Gallinari.

It's freaking sad.

Also F Tractor Traylor.

[god shammgod]

Yeah, I mean 11/4/1.3 on 40/25/62 in his 3rd year is just dreadful

Oh wait, that was Jaylen Brown's first 20 games his 3rd year

RJ's so much worse, just 14/6/2 on 40/31/70 splits... wait a second

He's having a bad year yeah, but y'all are obnoxiously excessive about it. And y'all pretend like he doesn't show flashes, but he does. He's inconsistent (meaning bad right now) but I don't know why y'all are like, so ready to sh*t on draft picks. It's like y'all want them to be bad

I'm fine with people saying he's regressed, cause he has so far, but god damn are y'all just excessively pessimistic about everything. It's like a fetish for you people, you want the Knicks to be bad so you can go "woe is me, I'm such a suffering Knicks fan" and have people pity you. He'll be fine, it'd be one thing if he had looked like this the whole time, but last year he looked pretty good, so it's clear he does have some potential

It's just so annoying that whenever RJ misses a shot, the next page and a half of any game thread is unreadable. Y'all give up on guys at every little setback, it's absurd. Nobody's allowed any time to be bad but show flashes, if you're not a star day one, half the fanbase is gonna want you gone. And that's why you can't rebuild in New York.

i don't really want to talk about rj. but for every guy who started year 3 bad and became sort of a star, there's 4 guys who didn't. what you're basically saying is "because this 1 guy did it, it's possible rj can do it". well sure. it'd still be possible if nobody had ever done it. it just doesn't seem likely.

but i do agree that this place has become sort of a toxic soup of agendas and overreactions to every play. it honestly is annoying at this point. the game threads are getting pretty bad. i don't know why it has gotten this bad but it has.

You're as reactionary as anyone!

yeah but everyone is me and you now. i've gotten less so to try to bring some balance to this place.

[Chanel Bomber]

One day, in the summer of 1968, Clyde Frazier and Red Holzman were in a midtown Manhattan apartment, having just finished drawing a large pentagram on the floor. At each point were candles. They murmured incantations and the beast from hell appeared.
There they sold their souls for two championships and Clyde never having grey hair. It is rumored that in addition to taking their souls in the future, the Knicks would be cursed with no championships for 100 years and also never have a truly talented wing or guard for more than a couple of years at a time.

Sorry guys. Another 48 years to go before the Knicks get that good player who can create.

I think it makes sense. It's the only logical explanation tbh.

[robillionaire]

i don't really want to talk about rj. but for every guy who started year 3 bad and became sort of a star, there's 4 guys who didn't. what you're basically saying is "because this 1 guy did it, it's possible rj can do it". well sure. it'd still be possible if nobody had ever done it. it just doesn't seem likely.

but i do agree that this place has become sort of a toxic soup of agendas and overreactions to every play. it honestly is annoying at this point. the game threads are getting pretty bad. i don't know why it has gotten this bad but it has.

You're as reactionary as anyone!

yeah but everyone is me and you now. i've gotten less so to try to bring some balance to this place.

Yeah I agree. I mean we are just 11-12. Last year we were 12-15. We just need 30 games to gel. The big winning steak is coming any day now

[god shammgod]

plus i do with it finesse. calling rj a 3 & d player is funny. y'all are like "f*ck rj he's a piece of sh*t" lol

[thebuzzardman]

I'm always amused at the board, because you can collectively add up all the hate, and there isn't one player worth a sh*t.
Conversely you could add up all the positivity and the team is like the championship Celtics.
But somehow, the team is a game under .500 and is 6-12 over the last 18.
Welp, someone or something sucks on the team.
Guess it can't be RJ or Mitch or Randle or Kemba or Fournier or Noel or Rose or Burks (well, Burks is awesome) or Obi or Knox or IQ or Taj or Thibs or whoever. It's just some mystery thing.

[robillionaire]

plus i do with it finesse. calling rj a 3 & d player is funny. y'all are like "f*ck rj he's a piece of sh*t" lol

It’s funny because he shoots 20% from 3 with a -2.0 drpm