PG: Knicks vs. Celtics: At least that 3rd quarter was encouraging...

[Clyde_Style]

The NBA YouTube page now does every bucket in their highlight videos of games. I was rewatching the CLE game and at least 3x CLE got easy buckets at the rim b/c of Thibs is “defender of screener shows then recovers” scheme. It is a terrible option in the modern NBA, b/c he refuses to tell ppl to help that initial defender of the guy who set the screen. So they’re scrambling to get back to their guy and are out of position to defend a lob or box out or whatever. the same issue would happen when it was Mitch and Hartenstein too.

Then on offense, he puts these bruisers in front of the rim instead of on the baseline for the drop off, preventing a lot of drives at the rim or causing them to be extra contested when ppl do drive all the way.

https://vocal.media/education/what-is-the-dunker-spot-a-closer-look-at-basketball-s-strategic-position

This is like basketball 101 that you learn just playing pick up. Help the helper. Clear the lane. I just don’t get it.

Getting Mitch back isn’t going to be the complete fix ppl think it is

Yes, agreed in full. I'm pretty clear their viability increases if Mitch can actually play long enough to matter, but it will not correct our strategic failures due to Thibs.

Peeps seem to think we'll find another gear in the playoffs, but what do they think the other clubs will do then, fall back and roll out a red carpet for us?

No, the issues we have now will amplify. We'll continue to have issues with containing perimeter shooters, our transition defense will be in a state of confusion and our half court sets will grind to a halt with no play action being generated.

And some club we face in the first round could play well and dump us pretty easily if they get on a roll entering the playoffs whether that is a DET or ORL or ATL or MIL or whomever, because our issues will be worse in the playoffs, not vanish by virtue of outscoring the opposition. I said the other day we'd beat a team like DET in the first round, but I take that back. Our record gives us zero indication of how we'll fare in a series against anyone. We're much closer to a mid team than an elite one so we have no reason to be overconfident.

The issue with replacing Thibs is whether the FO wants to try to make a run this year or not, because if they do you absolutely have to dump Thibs now and start coaching up the roster in the last third of the season, because we're playing like bush leaguers now.

Per your thoughts on D, we literally are losing the will to play legit man defense, because we're not committing to our assignments enough. Switching works when you commit to it too, but that's not working at all due to the schizoid dictates of Thibs to cover them outside, but drop back to contain the interior. Our personnel is clearly better at manning up at the POA and making the other team eat up some of the clock, but we almost always let them settle into their sets without any confrontation and then we muddle around in no-man's land as they dissect us from outside/in.

It's a disaster and any reputation Thibs had as a defensive coach is in ruins. Thibs is a system coach dependent on types of players who cannot coach up just anyone who doesn't fit into their rigid schemes.

Fire this guy now if you want to regroup and make a run at it this season. Otherwise, this season is dunzo.

[3toheadmelo]

This is the play me and Melo were laughing about in the game thread

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KAT switching on the screen. The answer to our poor defense

KAT is pretty awful on switches. People keep saying drop coverage is why he sucks but even when he switches he’s a liability.

There is no scheme for a bad defender at the 5.

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Yep. But they not tryna hear that though.

[HEZI]

How many times did the Knicks give up a dunk from switching on defense at the top of the key?

How many open 3's did the Knicks give up from playing drop on a screen at the top of the key?

Stop googling "pregnant man porn" and present the data...let's go.

Pregnant man porn was the first thought in your head when you saw that? Says a lot about you and your thoughts. I won’t judge

Their two leading scorers combined for 49 points and only shot 5-17 from 3

How many points in the paint? How many?

You searched "pregnant man porn"...and posted what you found....half naked fat dude .. Don't try to switch this on me.

My questions still stand which you refuse to answer.

You refuse to present the actual data of how the Knicks performed on switches versus drop coverage because you don't want to look dumb for talking out your azz.

Bye Felicia. Exposed.

[Clyde_Style]

Can anybody really look at me with a straight face and say Mikal is better than 2023-2024 Donte divincenzo

He's not at this moment, no

His upside remains greater, but we won't see that until we have a better coach, because everyone on the team is floundering.

Mikal is a good piece in the right hands

[HEZI]

This is the play me and Melo were laughing about in the game thread

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KAT switching on the screen. The answer to our poor defense

You see the second Gortat screen Boston set pinning Brunson and running KAT into that. Boston is just better.

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Force a bad defender into a situation where he needs to cover for another bad defender and it’s a comical breakdown as we witnessed

[mpharris36]

I'll take some positives from this game...we really needed that 3rd qtr as a unit.

[nykballa2k4]

The sad thing about him is that he plays so timidly. He is afraid to go to the rim. Would rather shoot a fadeaway jumper on a fast break. Maybe he should watch some Josh hart film. It’s frustrating how soft he plays at times.

He's always been a finesse player. Doesn't mean he has to be passive.
Hart has something you can't really teach.
Bridges should be studying the Butler package. His frame and skillset is a better match

Butler is based on aggression. Bridges is too chill.

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Still in terms of picking his spots. Butlers play in GS has been complimentary as opposed to a change in gears. A Towns injury, if it's short term, might be perfect for us if it can be a way to get Bridges going.

[Fat]

Failing to secure Donovan Mitchell set our franchise back 10 years

we get punked just as much by the celtics with trying to start Brunson/Mitchell together. Two small non defensive guards. And people are constantly complaining about our defense. I feel like I'm in la la land.

Not sure the Knicks go for Brunson if they get Mitchell which I think was his point.

I’m just saying we could of had Brunson, Mitchell, Og and still had some picks to spare

[LFGK]

NGL that hurt me. I was looking forward to this one and honestly thought we'd have a chance to win this but it just gave us the harsh reality that we are too far away this season. And it's not something Mitch is going to fix.

A lot of why we are getting our doors blown off against Boston is the mental and intangibles. Look after the game how we were so quick to hug and laugh it up with the Celtics players. I know today's players were raised differently and everyone is friends with each other but I honestly don't think we can get over this hump until we start to take these losses personally and learn to hate them. I don't sense that with this team. It's like ho hum, no big deal. Not sure how you fix that.

And the Celts are just a bad match up. How ironic we built this team that can blow out 26 other teams but cannot beat the top 3. Leon has a lot of work to do in the summer. We need to get back to being that defensive minded, rebounding, tough resilient team. Or at the very least get better cause this ain't it. And KAT is unplayable against the top teams when at Center.

Well, it's not like we can cancel the season and go home. We still got 25 games left and a first round match up which we should win but cannot see how we close this wide gap this season for that second round match up against these guys. It's like we are walking into a volcano with no answers.

I just want to say again KaT and Rudy went to the WCF last year. A back court of Mitch/KAT is a lot more dangerous than people realize. It also helps the bench because one of a Hart or Bridges moves to the second unit and we need help there too. 5 out or a 4 out Mitch big at the 5 is also the type of line up Villanova use to win with.

OK we start Mitch but then who does KAT guard?

JB --- Holiday
Mikal --- White
OG --- Brown
Mitch --- KP
KAT --- Tatum?

Celts are a nightmare!

They also have to defend us u know

[Clyde_Style]

I'll take some positives from this game...we really needed that 3rd qtr as a unit.

The main positive I took from this game was when it was over no catastrophic asteroid had smashed into our planet.

Buzz, however, would said that's a negative

[Iron Mantis]

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rather live with these then wide open C&S threes because we overhelp on drop coverage. KAT doesn't have good rim protecting instincts to have him have to make quick decisions on defending both the ball handler and roller/popper in P&R coverage.

Simplify ****...auto switches and let him move his feet and force contested jumpers. And you live with that. But yes lets show one creative counter to a switch that lead to an easy dunk and make it seem like drop and switching are the exact same for KAT.

So no one wants to discuss the switches that ended with positive results?

Typical agenda-mongers.

[mpharris36]

Failing to secure Donovan Mitchell set our franchise back 10 years

we get punked just as much by the celtics with trying to start Brunson/Mitchell together. Two small non defensive guards. And people are constantly complaining about our defense. I feel like I'm in la la land.

Not sure the Knicks go for Brunson if they get Mitchell which I think was his point.

I don't think he is referencing that, or at least I hope he isn't. Brunson is better than Mitchell.

[Guano]

How many times did the Knicks give up a dunk from switching on defense at the top of the key?

How many open 3's did the Knicks give up from playing drop on a screen?

Some of y'all need to stay off of Twitter.

Posting Celtics nation is nasty work. trying to win the war but at what cost

Agenda-mongers gonna monger

speaking of agendas... we had a wing who could actually get buckets. those were the days

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[Gravy]

Preview of how a healthy Mitch could help KAT's poor defense

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[mpharris36]

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rather live with these then wide open C&S threes because we overhelp on drop coverage. KAT doesn't have good rim protecting instincts to have him have to make quick decisions on defending both the ball handler and roller/popper in P&R coverage.

Simplify ****...auto switches and let him move his feet and force contested jumpers. And you live with that. But yes lets show one creative counter to a switch that lead to an easy dunk and make it seem like drop and switching are the exact same for KAT.

So no one wants to discuss the switches that ended with positive results?

Typical agenda-mongers.

I guess I'm not surprised I didn't get any traction with the post because it doesn't fit the narrative that some of our issues are on coaching.

But hey, I understand the teams limitations. I don't expect us to be a top 10 DEF...nor do I think we need to be to get where we want to go. Simply saying we should do more of this...add in some matchup zone as well. All these things will keep KAT specifically away from playing drop and making multiple decisions trying to protect the rim.

Switching won't work everytime. THere will be times smaller guys that get behind KAT...there will be times he gives up too much ground and a guy hits a step back 3 pt shot. But you know what I will live with that then playing drop and us overcompensating for KAT's weaknesses defensivelh to overhelp on drives to that be late to scramble out to wide open 3 pt shooters. If Tatum gets a dunk now and then I can live with that.

We switched more this game then the 1st two games vs BOS...is it any surprise that BOS shot worse from 3 this game then the other 2...yes we still lost...we have more things to clean up. But there were FAR less open 3 pt shots given up this game. Even Derrick White who was the best shooter from the perimeter made a couple really tough late in the shot clock contested 3's...those you tip your cap on. So I don't see how people can't think switching didn't help our 3 pt defense this game.

[Chanel Bomber]

we get punked just as much by the celtics with trying to start Brunson/Mitchell together. Two small non defensive guards. And people are constantly complaining about our defense. I feel like I'm in la la land.

Not sure the Knicks go for Brunson if they get Mitchell which I think was his point.

I don't think he is referencing that, or at least I hope he isn't. Brunson is better than Mitchell.

They're pretty much the same caliber of player.

Mitchell's a better defender than Brunson. Our captain tries but he's one of the worst defenders in the league.

Just because Brunson outplayed him in one playoff series doesn't mean he's fundamentally the better player.

In your earlier post I think you failed to mention the uptick in offense that would come with pairing Brunson and Mitchell, as if the defense would get worse but the offense would remain stable. With Mitchell, you're injecting HOF-level, All-NBA-level production into the offense.

The Cavs have a small backcourt yet they are managing just fine with their defensive frontcourt by the way. They would have had quite a bit of success with iHart, Mitch and OG. iHart's departure would have hurt us, just like it did this past summer.

[thebuzzardman]

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F*ck Eddie House.

Should be a "f*ck you too" for posting it

[Deeeez Knicks]

Failing to secure Donovan Mitchell set our franchise back 10 years

we get punked just as much by the celtics with trying to start Brunson/Mitchell together. Two small non defensive guards. And people are constantly complaining about our defense. I feel like I'm in la la land.

No OG, no Mikal, no iHart… maybe even no Hart. We wouldn’t have the wings or size to compete

[Jeffrey]

Maybe its best to put Mitch as the starting 5 and Mikal goes to the bench. I wouldn't have done this at the start of the season because I was concern about Hart's offense. Thibs need a rim protector in his lineup and it seems that his defense can't evolve without it.

Mitch
KAT
OG
Josh
Brunson

Mikal
McBride
Precious
Payne

[mpharris36]

Not sure the Knicks go for Brunson if they get Mitchell which I think was his point.

I don't think he is referencing that, or at least I hope he isn't. Brunson is better than Mitchell.

They're pretty much the same caliber of player.

Mitchell's a better defender than Brunson. Our captain tries but he's one of the worst defenders in the league.

Just because Brunson outplayed him in one playoff series doesn't mean he's fundamentally the better player.

In your earlier post I think you failed to mention the uptick in offense that would come with pairing Brunson and Mitchell, as if the defense would get worse but the offense would remain stable. With Mitchell, you're injecting HOF-level, All-NBA-level production into the offense.

The Cavs have a small backcourt yet they are managing just fine with their defensive frontcourt by the way. They would have had quite a bit of success with iHart, Mitch and OG. iHart's departure would have hurt us, just like it did this past summer.

For the TS police...Mitchell has 1 time shot over 60% on that end and brunson clears him on the EFF end. And Brunson has been a far better playoff performer especially if you take away the COVID/playoff bubble run Mitchell had. So I would give the edge to Brunson for sure (would certainly not 1 for 1 swap them).

but in theory it could work you would have to have a complete structure change of the team. Obviously you couldn't have Brunson/Mitchell/KAT.

Mitchell is a better defender simply because of his quicker switch ability...but he can't defend anyone either. Especially if you are now asking one of them to constantly guard the POA defense would would be a disaster. CLE gets by because they have two elite defenders at the 4 and 5...so we would have had to find a completely different composition in the front court to make it work.

Garland is a more willing passing than Brunson so it seems to work better. Not saying it wouldn't work because I'm aware Brunson and Mitchell are special offensive players. It might be better for a thibs run team because he just allows freelancing with no "specific system". So Brunson and Mitchell could do "take turns running the offense"

but the roster would be way difficult to build around. We already are seeing that its challenging defensively with brunson...adding another small guard. Then you would still have to find bigs that defend that could also space the floor because you need more spacing for Hart.

Its not a coincidence Hart is having the best season of his career playing with KAT who brings out the opposing big to allow Hart to attack the rim and cut into open space. If you have bigs that can't shoot then Hart certainly wouldn't be as impactful.