PG Knicks/Pistons

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Yeah I can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thibs problem has always been he doesn’t adjust to his roster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He’s still trying to run this team like it’s last years team !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s a completely different mix of players and he has no clue how to maximize their talents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you either fire him and get a coach that can maximize the talent on the roster or trade some players to get guys that fits thibs system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell em Greenie.

Well well well... look who finally decided to join the winning team.

Welcome to cult greenie. We've been waiting.

This is pretty ominous given your Milita history and Greenie's taste for human flesh.

[JayTWill]

You can't hide Deuce and Brunson. Cade was cooking evwrybody down low. And then whoever was left had to deal with Harris 6'8 and Thomson 6'6. With 6'6 Beasley coming in.

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Cade went to work on McBride last night. Tatum went to work on Mikal the game before. Booker went to work on OG the game before that. What you won't see is a player going to work on Hart or Brunson very often because Thibs tries to hide them as much as possible off ball although it does feel like he has taken some of the defensive responsibility off of Mikal in the last month or so which may be part of the reason we saw Deuce on Cade all game instead of Mikal. If Thibs did put Hart on Cade, Tatum or Booker I have a strong feeling they would have went to work on him too.

I'm not a fan of undersized backcourts and was one of the few people that thought Grimes should have been placed back in the starting lineup in last January in place of DDV since I thought Grimes was a much better defensive backcourt pairing with Brunson and DDV offense and experience could have been used on the bench. I still wanted a bigger, stronger more versatile defender to pair with Brunson. Deuce is far from my ideal backcourt pairing with Brunson but Hart isn't either. He has plenty of his own defensive issues this year.

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612752&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628404&OnlyCommonGames=true

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612752&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628973,1630540,1628404&OnlyCommonGames=true

There is no indication that Hart is better defensively for the team especially when paired with Brunson. Hart is stronger but incredibly undersized also with other defensive limitations.

I'm afraid I have quite no idea what you are arguing. My position is simply Deuce is too small to be paired in the backcoirt with Brunson.

Is it your position that the Knicka backcourt players are all small and defensively poor?

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I'm saying replacing Deuce with Hart doesn't make things better defensively this year. Hart has been complaining with the refs instead of getting back on defense at times. In transition he hasn't been consistently sprinting back. He gets caught ball watching far too often. He likes to sink down into the paint in anticipation of a rebound but he doesn't box out or keep track of his man. He can be slow to close out. He does all this while also being incredibly undersized himself. He provides a little more physical resistance in the paint than Deuce but he only has a 1.5 inch standing reach advantage over Deuce.

Some clips from last Piston's game with almost a full roster outside of Mitch
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=DEF_FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022400549&PlayerID=1628404&RangeType=0&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612752&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game

Obviously they don't show all of the things Hart does defensively good and bad but in those limited clips I don't see much positive impact from Hart. He is just kinda out there. Either shots go in or they don't.

If you put him in Deuce's role yesterday I don't think it would have gone well either. Hart doesn't really have the length or athleticism to bother many good offensive players. He doesn't slow down big guys or really quick guys or really skilled guys. I would think his best defensive matchup would be against more physical guards/forwards but he admitted his toughest matchup is Demar Derozan. I'm not really sure who Hart defends well at this point.

Hart helps on the glass and finishing a defensive possession with a rebound is incredibly important but so are the many other things occurring before the rebound opportunity. The team has had defensive issues as a whole this year and I believe Hart has been part of the problem.

What do you think Hart's strengths are defensively outside of rebounding?

[3toheadmelo]

Idk, paying a kings ransom to ang for some role players would have been similar to a mikal move. Leon fcked up by not giving iHart more years on his initial deal if were going that route. But like I said that's nitpicking.

Wasting bench money and star resources on mikal is what's going to doom this team.

Kessler only cost 2 picks. Thats much less than giving up 7 for mikal lol

Hard to believe that's true or someone else would have jumped on that. But sure if that's all it was I'd rather have that package than mikal for 8(I'm a fan of increasing this number for the dramatics. That's a nice touch) picks.

League sources believe the asking price for a cheaper alternative like Walker Kessler from the Utah Jazz is Dalton Knecht and the Lakers’ 2029 and 2031 first-round picks.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

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Everybody’s coming to the realization now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Better late than never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nedleeds]

They said Deuce in the starting lineup would fix the shooting. If Deuce is going to shoot as bad as Hart then you may as well leave Hart in the sl to get you a triple double.

They said Deuce was Joe Dumars.

It would take the real prime Joe Dumars to save the team

Good point. To put in perspective how far this team is from being a championship contender, if you just swapped Josh Hart for a 1st ballot Hall of Famer we still wouldn't be favored. Capped out and no picks and a moron for a coach with no interest in developing young players barring meteors hitting others teams planes there's just no path to a finals.

[spree2kawhi]

like i said, he sucks (feet and awareness) but he does give effort. that's why he makes so many stupid defensive fouls. if i didn't compare the effort level to randle's you would have let it rock but i'm saying if your starting PF is gonna suck at defense (whether due to ability like kat or due to feeling exempt from it like randle) him being 7 ft down low just makes mitch's job much easier than 6'9 does

Towns isn’t worse than Randle defensively.

because he plays center he is

No. This is just bad logic. He should play more next to Mitch but that’s on the coach. Mitch+Towns >>> Mitch +Randle. This team was going nowhere with Julius and this point is moot.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

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Can’t wait to trade KAT for KD!!

Kat for Kd & Dunn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bridges and Mitch for Kessler and pieces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Music to my ears!!!!! Music to my ears!!!

[Guano]

Tell em Greenie.

Well well well... look who finally decided to join the winning team.

Welcome to cult greenie. We've been waiting.

This is pretty ominous given your Milita history and Greenie's taste for human flesh.

[Guano]

Kessler only cost 2 picks. Thats much less than giving up 7 for mikal lol

Hard to believe that's true or someone else would have jumped on that. But sure if that's all it was I'd rather have that package than mikal for 8(I'm a fan of increasing this number for the dramatics. That's a nice touch) picks.

League sources believe the asking price for a cheaper alternative like Walker Kessler from the Utah Jazz is Dalton Knecht and the Lakers’ 2029 and 2031 first-round picks.

Our* Lakers should have made that trade

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Knicks vs pistons it is Folksssssssssssss

[MrDollarBills]

pj out here calling the team soft now....sad

“They just out-toughed us. They did. The whole fourth quarter,” said PJ Tucker, the veteran who received rotation minutes for the first time this season. “We kept it close but they just out-toughed us. That’s something we got to address. Obviously, not having OG [Anunoby], not having Josh [Hart], getting those guys back will help a lot.

“I just feel like down in the trenches like that in the playoffs this year, they’re not calling nothing. They’re letting a lot of stuff go right now and I like it. The refs are letting a lot of stuff go both ways. With that happening, guys got to play differently. We got to play different. We got to toughen up. It’s more physical. We got to toughen up.”

https://nypost.com/2025/04/10/sports/knicks-fail-to-lock-up-no-3-seed-in-loss-to-pesky-pistons/?utm_campaign=iphone_nyp&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

He's right.

[Gravy]

They said Deuce was Joe Dumars.

It would take the real prime Joe Dumars to save the team

Good point. To put in perspective how far this team is from being a championship contender, if you just swapped Josh Hart for a 1st ballot Hall of Famer we still wouldn't be favored. Capped out and no picks and a moron for a coach with no interest in developing young players barring meteors hitting others teams planes there's just no path to a finals.

The Knicks could win a championship in the next three years. We've only seen the team healthy for two games this season, one where they almost beat the Celtics. Favored or not this is the best chance they've had since the 90s

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Knicks vs pistons it is folkssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrDollarBills]

Well well well... look who finally decided to join the winning team.

Welcome to cult greenie. We've been waiting.

This is pretty ominous given your Milita history and Greenie's taste for human flesh.

Great movie. Also, Florence Pugh

[nedleeds]

It would take the real prime Joe Dumars to save the team

Good point. To put in perspective how far this team is from being a championship contender, if you just swapped Josh Hart for a 1st ballot Hall of Famer we still wouldn't be favored. Capped out and no picks and a moron for a coach with no interest in developing young players barring meteors hitting others teams planes there's just no path to a finals.

The Knicks could win a championship in the next three years. We've only seen the team healthy for two games this season, one where they almost beat the Celtics. Favored or not this is the best chance they've had since the 90s

You've only seen the team healthy for 2 games for good reason.
We have some fragile players, who play tons of minutes.
What would make any sane person think they'd get healthier as they age and play under this coach?
We did almost beat the Celtics once in the regular season.
I agree this is the best chance they've had since the 90s, but that's like saying this mornings turd was the most appetizing this month. You'd never eat a turd.

[prophet_of_rage]

Cade went to work on McBride last night. Tatum went to work on Mikal the game before. Booker went to work on OG the game before that. What you won't see is a player going to work on Hart or Brunson very often because Thibs tries to hide them as much as possible off ball although it does feel like he has taken some of the defensive responsibility off of Mikal in the last month or so which may be part of the reason we saw Deuce on Cade all game instead of Mikal. If Thibs did put Hart on Cade, Tatum or Booker I have a strong feeling they would have went to work on him too.

I'm not a fan of undersized backcourts and was one of the few people that thought Grimes should have been placed back in the starting lineup in last January in place of DDV since I thought Grimes was a much better defensive backcourt pairing with Brunson and DDV offense and experience could have been used on the bench. I still wanted a bigger, stronger more versatile defender to pair with Brunson. Deuce is far from my ideal backcourt pairing with Brunson but Hart isn't either. He has plenty of his own defensive issues this year.

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612752&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628404&OnlyCommonGames=true

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612752&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628973,1630540,1628404&OnlyCommonGames=true

There is no indication that Hart is better defensively for the team especially when paired with Brunson. Hart is stronger but incredibly undersized also with other defensive limitations.

I'm afraid I have quite no idea what you are arguing. My position is simply Deuce is too small to be paired in the backcoirt with Brunson.

Is it your position that the Knicka backcourt players are all small and defensively poor?

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

I'm saying replacing Deuce with Hart doesn't make things better defensively this year. Hart has been complaining with the refs instead of getting back on defense at times. In transition he hasn't been consistently sprinting back. He gets caught ball watching far too often. He likes to sink down into the paint in anticipation of a rebound but he doesn't box out or keep track of his man. He can be slow to close out. He does all this while also being incredibly undersized himself. He provides a little more physical resistance in the paint than Deuce but he only has a 1.5 inch standing reach advantage over Deuce.

Some clips from last Piston's game with almost a full roster outside of Mitch
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=DEF_FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022400549&PlayerID=1628404&RangeType=0&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612752&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game

Obviously they don't show all of the things Hart does defensively good and bad but in those limited clips I don't see much positive impact from Hart. He is just kinda out there. Either shots go in or they don't.

If you put him in Deuce's role yesterday I don't think it would have gone well either. Hart doesn't really have the length or athleticism to bother many good offensive players. He doesn't slow down big guys or really quick guys or really skilled guys. I would think his best defensive matchup would be against more physical guards/forwards but he admitted his toughest matchup is Demar Derozan. I'm not really sure who Hart defends well at this point.

Hart helps on the glass and finishing a defensive possession with a rebound is incredibly important but so are the many other things occurring before the rebound opportunity. The team has had defensive issues as a whole this year and I believe Hart has been part of the problem.

What do you think Hart's strengths are defensively outside of rebounding?

I note that you limit it to Hart's defensive strengths versus overall strengths. Hart's defensive strengths are his rebounding and his ability to create and pick up loose balls. He keeps possessions alive and he gets on the floor. He is the sparkplug guy. He brings those two things that Deuce does not. And at 6'5 he brings more length and strength to the court. Players don't immediately isolate on him even if they aren't the primary scorers. He can hold his ground better and contest.

Now let's talk about his benefits to the offence where he generates extra possessions, runs the offence, creates transition opportunities that get the Knicks playing faster and unselfishly always passes to the open man. Although he isn't a great shooter he can drive and create or drive and finish at a high level. He is also very willing to be a fifth scorer which allows more touches to the players who need them. If Hart were in yeasterday I do believe we beat the Pistons. He can handle their physicality and his passion would equal out theirs.

But I don't particularly care about last night. Longterm Deuce cannot be a starter next to Brunson because their skills are duplicative and so are their defensive shortcomings.

[Spree2Houston]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Everybody’s coming to the realization now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Better late than never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Part of the reason we’re shooting less 3s is missing Hartenstein and a full-time Mitch. All those offensive rebounds led to more 3pt attempts.

[prophet_of_rage]

They said Deuce was Joe Dumars.

It would take the real prime Joe Dumars to save the team

Good point. To put in perspective how far this team is from being a championship contender, if you just swapped Josh Hart for a 1st ballot Hall of Famer we still wouldn't be favored. Capped out and no picks and a moron for a coach with no interest in developing young players barring meteors hitting others teams planes there's just no path to a finals.

Relax. Meteors? Damn.

[prophet_of_rage]

So I'm up to date we now hate:

1. Thibs
2. Josh Hart
3. Mikal Bridges
4. KAT's defence

Am I missing anything?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Everybody’s coming to the realization now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Better late than never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Part of the reason we’re shooting less 3s is missing Hartenstein and a full-time Mitch. All those offensive rebounds led to more 3pt attempts.

The Thibs special, a junk offense that works in the regular season that relies on something that is unsustainable because the further you go in the playoffs the more likely you are to meet someone that can stop offensive rebounding.