ImageImageImageImageImage

PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again

Moderators: Jeff Van Gully, Deeeez Knicks, HerSports85, j4remi, NoLayupRule, dakomish23, GONYK, mpharris36

User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 96,272
And1: 138,182
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#261 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:02 pm

j4remi wrote:It was a win over the Nets and they were missing Jeremy Lin, so let's not get too hype...but there was a lot that I liked about this one after a slow start that looked more confused than lacking effort. The offense took a bit to get going with Rose and Lee really carrying the load early, but Melo and KP took over their roles as first and second options respectively and the offense began to really roll. Defensively, the motion and communication showed improvement but soft closeouts early really hurt these guys with Forwards firing from three. The second half, that improved and the overall defense looked strong but the caveat remains that we were playing the Nets and it needs to be mentioned that there was no answer for Brook Lopez. Time to work on hard post doubles and timing.

Rose: 60% from the field including a made three and second one he hit with a foot on the line. He had 4 assists in just over 20 mins and added a couple of boards too. Rose played well, make no mistake, he's been moving the ball effectively and keeping his dribble more controlled. 14 and 4 in 22 mins is good and Jennings played so well in the second half that we were able to rest Rose plenty which is huge for dude's legs.

Lee: His shot was failing him from outside, but his ability to catch the ball in motion and attack the lane with floaters, lay-ups, kick outs and pull ups made him a really important piece to our early offense. He kept us afloat for a bit. Defensively, he's always reliable but thanks to the Nets heavily favoring big men...it really didn't stand out like it tends to on most nights.

Melo: Didn't shoot for the first half of the first quarter and he had no rhythm early. I think he started 0-5 from the field. But he gained more and more momentum as he went along and while he shot poorly he turned up blocks and rebounds that helped the team anyway. He was solid on defense all night and in the third quarter when the team couldn't buy a bucket...Iso-Melo calmed things down and got us back. I'll keep saying it, Isolations aren't evil as long as you pick your spots. When Bogdanovic is isolated on Melo and the Nets aren't shading help defenders over; Melo can do things like run off 14 points in 5 minutes to destroy a 9 point deficit.

KP: 21, 8, 1 assist to his bestie Willy, 2 blocks, 2 steals...this was the KP we always wanna see. He impacted the game everywhere. He's still struggling to close out to the three point line but when the PG's work to get him open and find him...he's an absolute monster without needing a go-to move. Early on the post up, turn around jumper near the corners looked reliable too. His three point shooting is on another level this year, if he's open it's almost automatic. Honestly, just a really good game from a guy who has looked like a true second option in this recent run.

Noah: 2 points, 7 boards, 4 assists in 20 minutes. Like Rose, he got a nice long break while Willy was going off in the second half. He struggled with Brook mightily but Brook is a tough assignment without help because of his post work. Solid game, not much new to say about him though. His vision as a passer is really impressive for a big.

Jennings: Jennings had a nightmare first half, dribbling off his foot, throwing tough passes to guys with bad hands (Ndour and KOQ) and just struggling everywhere. When he got to play with the offensive bench guys and Melo or KP...he was a new man. His ability use ball handling to open spaces for KP and Willy was a marvel; and his telling Melo "we're going to you, keep shooting" was a floor general move that is easy to overlook. He also has a shark mindset in that when he senses the opponents' falling off mentally, he starts to turn up and jaw at players; clap at 'em; get inside their heads. It's a playground mentality, but it's effective as hell. 11 assists in 27 minutes, he bought Rose a nice break and I love to see a player pick themselves up after getting down in the first half.

Can't Get Right Thomas: He was three for five in 10 minutes plus showed up inside trying to grab boards (awful hands prevent it though). Somehow shooting efficiently and playing pretty hard, he still didn't seem to be helping the situation on the floor much but that's because he can't shoulder the scoring load for a unit with no scorers.

KOQ: Similar to Lance, he didn't play bad but the unit wasn't working. He had some at the rim defense and forced a TO taking a charge and didn't force his offense but the unit just looked bad out there.

Ndour: Same as above, his defense was actually pretty good. He got to where he needed to be on both ends but he also couldn't catch tricky passes from BJ, and I repeat...he was part a unit that simply wasn't working.

Holiday: His worst game so far, came in and immediately took a fairly contested off the dribble jumper that bricked. He wasn't impacting other areas and his 2 shots in 5 minutes both missed the mark.

Sasha: Part of the other second unit, the one that worked. He actually did a good job with on ball full court pressure. He's had a knack for grabbing boards since he got here. He also forced some bad jumpers which always happens with dude. You don't want the ball travelling to his hands much on offense because he gets impatient and just fires off (1-5 from the field). But he wasn't bad, partially because the focus was so heavily on other offensive parts and his defense held up for a change.

Kuz: He's an attacking player period. He only got 4 shots up but whenever he touched the ball, he attacked his man before passing or shooting. He had a beauty of a step back three on Booker. He's not shy about shooting three's, he's comfortable dribbling at cats, his instincts are to get to the rim and he's also willing to post up...defensively he was sound, not good but active and not particularly bad until he slowed down a bit later in his run. He notched two steals and gave good fouls rather than foolish ones on two of the three he picked up. I think the second unit needs an attacker like him.

Willy: And then there was Willy. Dude came out there like he had something to prove. He set good screens, worked hard on boards, looked to pass to cutters and really protect the rims. He knows when the cut and where to cut to on offense which meant a lot of easy looks. His foot speed on D is questionable but he knows where he should be which helps. 14 pts, 6 boards, 2 blocks and a steal in 15 minutes...that's ridiculously productive. The blocks were legit too, he threw one dude's weak floater out to the perimeter and the steal was good hands against a lazy post. He made his case to get a real shot at the back-up C which is saying something because KOQ hasn't been bad; but this kid was really good. Also...his chemistry with KP is fun to watch.

Hornacek: Nicely coached game! When the Knicks got possession with 8 ticks left in the first, he threw KP back out there almost as fast as he'd pulled the kid for a breather. That's a minor thing, but good to see a Knicks coach do it! When the second unit didn't work, he changed it. He started making sure one or two starters were in with the second unit. He also left guys in who were riding momentum; so the two big offseason acquisitions didn't get star minutes but they got the breaks you want to see them get...and the back-ups had a chance to really thrive, build confidence and develop rapport with teammates. Lee says he tore the guys up at half time about defense and it showed in their effort too. So everything worked well as he adjusted and moved forward. The game snowballed from poor play to mediocre to good to great; all off his decisions.

Random: Boston next, they've been without Crowder and Horford which would be nice but I'm not taking that match up for granted. Toronto after that is a TOUGH match-up, they have pieces in the right places to give us fits and have looked great off Derozan going super saiyan to start this season. After that it's the Mavs, who always scare me but seem patchwprk right now off injuries and new additions. For all the rough start and negativity, this team has a real opportunity to be .500 after the first 10 with no preseason where the line-up played together and mostly quality opponents (not necessarily great but most of them weren't gimmes). This next three can turn a worrisome open into a really promising start.

Craziest thing: How about this...Walt criticized the Knicks during a 4 minute or more scoreless drought for OVERPASSING. Rose and Melo were both out there too. I'm not sure what to think of that, it's so rare that we see these guys pass too much instead of the other way around. They actually had good looks most of it too, but bricked or pass 'em up. It was strange but in a weird way, I was okay with that because it felt like the trust is building and they were really trying to play cohesively without sweating their FGA's or forcing their strengths.

Ur analysis is always spot on. I love it.
Image
It’s like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain’t directed directly at me, I don’t respect it
User avatar
j4remi
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 38,289
And1: 20,302
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
         

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#262 » by j4remi » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:05 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:Ur analysis is always spot on. I love it.


Much appreciated!
PG- Haliburton | Schroder | Sasser
SG- Grimes | Dick | Bogdanovic
SF- Bridges | George
PF- Hunter |Strus| Fleming
C- Turner | Powell | Wiseman
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 96,272
And1: 138,182
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#263 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:05 pm

Read on Twitter

Good schit coach
Image
It’s like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain’t directed directly at me, I don’t respect it
User avatar
F N 11
RealGM
Posts: 95,519
And1: 68,257
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#264 » by F N 11 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:06 pm

god shammgod wrote:i can't get too excited about winning this. the defense was so bad early. against a real team we would have been down 30.

Horny gave a tongue lashing, and he wasnt afraid to use the bench for some energy. I see lots of positives coming from this game.
CEO of the not trading RJ Club
User avatar
Rock Bottom
Analyst
Posts: 3,220
And1: 1,280
Joined: Oct 12, 2010

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#265 » by Rock Bottom » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Image
mrcalzone
Veteran
Posts: 2,709
And1: 2,910
Joined: Aug 08, 2013

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#266 » by mrcalzone » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:15 pm

Rock Bottom wrote:


SAS is the perfect example of the Mainstream Media. All the media is just trying to "correct the record", "push their agenda", "create/spin news rather than actually report it".
jvsimonetti0514
General Manager
Posts: 9,976
And1: 10,235
Joined: Dec 22, 2015
     

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#267 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:24 pm

mrcalzone wrote:
Rock Bottom wrote:


SAS is the perfect example of the Mainstream Media. All the media is just trying to "correct the record", "push their agenda", "create/spin news rather than actually report it".


SAS is Sean Hannity. Once upon a time he was journalist then he became a talk show personality. As long as Phil doesn't completely blow this core up again and adds more pieces, Melo should be fine.
I'm apart of a Knicks podcast! You Should check it out!
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWW9GUVpNULS97PyptXXU4w
Rotten Apple
General Manager
Posts: 8,757
And1: 5,113
Joined: Jun 25, 2016
     

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#268 » by Rotten Apple » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:46 pm

god shammgod wrote:i can't get too excited about winning this. the defense was so bad early. against a real team we would have been down 30.


While you're right. How many times have you seen this team fold during situations like that.
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 48,099
And1: 11,028
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#269 » by NoLayupRule » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:48 pm

AmazingJason wrote:Melo went on an ISO binge and got us to around tied.

I then accidentally took a nap on the couch and next thing I know, we're blowing them out :oops:

What happened?

you watching is clearly whats holding the team back

you need to sleep through games more often
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 113,720
And1: 118,292
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#270 » by mpharris36 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:49 pm

god shammgod wrote:i can't get too excited about winning this. the defense was so bad early. against a real team we would have been down 30.


very negative...
4-Peat! 22-25 BAF Champion Spurs:

ROSTER

Walker Kessler/Daniel Gafford/Adem Bona
Nikola Jokic/Santi Aldama/Isaiah Stewart
Aaron Nesmith/Josh Hart/Jaime Jaquez
Alex Caruso/Keon Ellis/Justin Champagnie
Steph Curry/Chris Paul/Ryan Rollins
User avatar
King of Canada
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 17,265
And1: 13,011
Joined: Nov 03, 2005
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
 

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#271 » by King of Canada » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:50 pm

Just watched the game. KP so far this season looking like three steps better than the player he was last year. He's starting to build some real confidence and emerge as the clear option 1B.

Notes from the game:

- Did you hear who I bet was Kyle's mom yell "Go Kyle!" right before he shot his 1st FT?
- Somebody tell Lance Thomas that the 3 point line isn't like 1st base. You don't have to touch it first before the shot counts as 3.
- Did you hear Clyde call Willy "Hernan the Gomez"?
BAF Pacers

F. Campazzo/ J. Clarkson/ K. Lewis Jr
D. Mitchell/ J. Richardson/S. Merrill
Luka/Melo
Zion/Gay/Gabriel
KAT/Kabengele

F. Mason, Jontay, J. Harris

RIP mags :beer:
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 48,099
And1: 11,028
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#272 » by NoLayupRule » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:51 pm

Willy looked amazing

again

the guy just knows how to play

he cuts, moves, passes and finishes at the rim
Hes a solid defender and rebounder

he really needs to be Noah's backup
KOQ can backup KP

N'Dour has no real use for us right now
Greenie
RealGM
Posts: 58,966
And1: 30,697
Joined: Feb 25, 2010

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#273 » by Greenie » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:51 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Read on Twitter

Good schit coach

Good
Greenie
RealGM
Posts: 58,966
And1: 30,697
Joined: Feb 25, 2010

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#274 » by Greenie » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:52 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:Willy looked amazing

again

the guy just knows how to play

he cuts, moves, passes and finishes at the rim
Hes a solid defender and rebounder

he really needs to be Noah's backup
KOQ can backup KP

N'Dour has no real use for us right now

I like Billy.
User avatar
King of Canada
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 17,265
And1: 13,011
Joined: Nov 03, 2005
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
 

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#275 » by King of Canada » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:53 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:Willy looked amazing

again

the guy just knows how to play

he cuts, moves, passes and finishes at the rim
Hes a solid defender and rebounder

he really needs to be Noah's backup
KOQ can backup KP

N'Dour has no real use for us right now


Bang-on on every point
BAF Pacers

F. Campazzo/ J. Clarkson/ K. Lewis Jr
D. Mitchell/ J. Richardson/S. Merrill
Luka/Melo
Zion/Gay/Gabriel
KAT/Kabengele

F. Mason, Jontay, J. Harris

RIP mags :beer:
BeagleBoss
General Manager
Posts: 8,078
And1: 4,331
Joined: Nov 26, 2011

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#276 » by BeagleBoss » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:54 pm

I'm going to be very upset if Hornecek goes with O'Quinn and Lance over Billy and Cheese. The rotation should be set by now. We've seen more then enough from Billy and Cheese to know they are more productive and far more energetic than O'Quinn and Lance. Around the 4-5 minute mark of the first, Hornecek should sub out KP and bring him back to start the 2nd quarter to run with Jennings, Holiday/Sasha, Cheese and Billy.
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 113,720
And1: 118,292
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#277 » by mpharris36 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:55 pm

BeagleBoss wrote:I'm going to be very upset if Hornecek goes with O'Quinn and Lance over Billy and Cheese. The rotation should be set by now. We've seen more then enough from Billy and Cheese to know they are more productive and far more energetic than O'Quinn and Lance. Around the 4-5 minute mark of the first, Hornecek should sub out KP and bring him back to start the 2nd quarter to run with Jennings, Holiday/Sasha, Cheese and Billy.


I think this is how I would go as well.
4-Peat! 22-25 BAF Champion Spurs:

ROSTER

Walker Kessler/Daniel Gafford/Adem Bona
Nikola Jokic/Santi Aldama/Isaiah Stewart
Aaron Nesmith/Josh Hart/Jaime Jaquez
Alex Caruso/Keon Ellis/Justin Champagnie
Steph Curry/Chris Paul/Ryan Rollins
HEZI
RealGM
Posts: 43,544
And1: 29,689
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
 

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#278 » by HEZI » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:56 pm

Very curious to see how Jeff handles the rotation going into the next game. Does he still go with Lance and KOQ or is he going to trust Kuz and Willy even though the next game is a road game
DENVER NUGGETS
Jamal Murray/Ty Jerome/Dante Exum
Zach Lavine/Ochai Agbaji/Corey Kispert
Aaron Gordon/Josh Okogie/Javonte Green
Jakob Poeltl/Moussa Diabate/Karlo Matkovic
Ivica Zubac/Nick Richards/Oscar Tshiebwe
Dr. Detfink
RealGM
Posts: 18,889
And1: 4,552
Joined: Dec 31, 2005

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#279 » by Dr. Detfink » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:57 pm

3-4 after 7 games really isn't all bad BUT I'd like to see a little more carry over when the Knicks become that team we all believe they can be.
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,264
And1: 25,725
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#280 » by moocow007 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:58 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Read on Twitter

Good schit coach


They should just hire Oakley as an assistant. That way instead of just snapping on them, maybe Oak can choke anyone that doesn't play defense out. More likely to remember to play D next time.

Return to New York Knicks