Frank Thread 3: FIBA Frank Aftermath

[GONYK]

the problem with 3-5 year projects is that you have to pay them after 4 years, and you really need to decide if you want to after only 3 years or lose them for nothing. you're basically paying to train someone, and you have to guesstimate if it's gonna be worth investing even more money in them before they even produce for you.

NBA should work out a way for teams to have guys in the G League for a couple years after being drafted and not take time off their NBA contracts. Like how in the MLB, you can draft a kid at 17, but if he's not ready to play until he's 23 or 24, you still get 7 years of team control on him

Obviously not to that extent, but especially if we're gonna start drafting kids out of high school, being up for a new contract at like 21 in some cases seems too early to make a call, which is why you get scenarios where guys like Wiggins get massively overpaid based off projected value because it's either that or lose them completely at age 23

Thing is is, most guys coming out at the top of the draft don't need that, so it's not really a huge deal, and I can't see the player's union liking giving more control to the owners though.

Honestly though, that's a pretty good compromise as long as the player still gets paid, but it doesn't count on the cap. I don't get this war with the owners that the media and players are trying to wage. NBA is pretty much the gold standard for Salary Cap sports and how players are treated/paid and Owners are profiting.

I would think the player availability would have to work like the season IR in football though.

If you draft a project, and after TC and preseason think he's not going to be a contributor for the year, you can send him to the G-League but lose the ability to call him up if you want to not lose a year of his rights.

[NYKnickerbocker]

If frank can shoot, he fits with anyone

If frank could and/or willing to shoot the Knicks front office wouldn't have been trying to trade him on draft day nor would they have been adding other PG's to the team like they were disciples of David Kahn. Sometimes that hardest thing is to teach a sheep how to be a wolf. Frank's career with the Knicks have been defined by him looking more sheep than wolf.

Ideal world you're right. But in an ideal world, Trier would still be potent offensively but not ISO ZO and Smith Jr would be a stronger defender than he is and both, therefore, would also fit with anyone. In an ideal world, I'd look like a young Brad Pitt and be dating a young Angelina Jolie.

Ight lol, but I think there’s a better chance of frank becoming a respectable shooter than all those other things happening

[NYKAL]

We didn't see anything we didn't already know? I think that is an inaccurate assessment of Frank's FIBA performance. He had multiple double digit scoring games, he was a lot more aggressive off the dribble and a better finisher around the rim. He shot FT's at a higher rate. He shot 3's more frequently and more accurately.

If he showed nothing different, he wouldn't have scored more. His performance would not be a major story coming out of the World Cup.

His double digit scores were 11, 12 & 16. Except for the 16pt game, he was still damn near at his verage which is 8pt on a team where he was fully comfortable and a leader on. That to me is not very impressive.

On the basis of aggression though, he shot more, penetrated more, and shot better in less time on the floor.

Even if you don't want to assess skill improvement, that is a very noticeable improvement from an aggression standpoint.

which I also alluded too. I said he was more locked in defensively and I admit he shot more. His defense and 2nd ball handling abilities are already more than enough for me. If Robison could benefit OKC with his lack of offense, I don't see why Frank can't be useful. I'm not a frank hater but, I think guys are gushing over what may be fools gold.

[thebuzzardman]

I like Frank but, he can't hold Triers jockstrap. Trier was the ONLY guard (as I said) that shot at an acceptable level. The others aren't even NBA level. Frank look good with the French team but, lets be real, that does NOT always translate to the NBA. He has a lot to prove before he can even be in the conversation with any of the guard on this team.

I believe Frank can't hold Trier's jockstrap because he can't pry it from Shammgod's hands

[Knicksfan1992]

NBA should work out a way for teams to have guys in the G League for a couple years after being drafted and not take time off their NBA contracts. Like how in the MLB, you can draft a kid at 17, but if he's not ready to play until he's 23 or 24, you still get 7 years of team control on him

Obviously not to that extent, but especially if we're gonna start drafting kids out of high school, being up for a new contract at like 21 in some cases seems too early to make a call, which is why you get scenarios where guys like Wiggins get massively overpaid based off projected value because it's either that or lose them completely at age 23

Thing is is, most guys coming out at the top of the draft don't need that, so it's not really a huge deal, and I can't see the player's union liking giving more control to the owners though.

Honestly though, that's a pretty good compromise as long as the player still gets paid, but it doesn't count on the cap. I don't get this war with the owners that the media and players are trying to wage. NBA is pretty much the gold standard for Salary Cap sports and how players are treated/paid and Owners are profiting.

I would think the player availability would have to work like the season IR in football though.

If you draft a project, and after TC and preseason think he's not going to be a contributor for the year, you can send him to the G-League but lose the ability to call him up if you want to not lose a year of his rights.

Yeah, agreed.

[NYKAL]

I like Frank but, he can't hold Triers jockstrap. Trier was the ONLY guard (as I said) that shot at an acceptable level. The others aren't even NBA level. Frank look good with the French team but, lets be real, that does NOT always translate to the NBA. He has a lot to prove before he can even be in the conversation with any of the guard on this team.

I believe Frank can't hold Trier's jockstrap because he can't pry it from Shammgod's hands

+1 needed that laugh this morning

[thebuzzardman]

Doesn't Payton kind of split the Frank/DSJr strengths and weaknesses?

Without listing them all out, hopefully it's understood what I mean.

As each player is currently understood to be, minus any off-season improvements that may or may not have happened.

That's a reason why sometimes I wonder if he'll start. Well, that and how Perry strongly backs "his" guys

I guess I'm not saying anything new, which after 5 months of off-season, no one really is, but the Knicks have a LOT of guards/wings and all of them are flawed in some way. Going to be VERY interesting who gets the starting nod at PG, SG and then, who is in the rotation backing up PG, SG and SF, since at least 3 of the guards can legitimately see time at SF, plus Fiz liked to go 3 guard alignments a lot anyway, then Morris, Knox and Bullock all are capable of seeing time at SF, but not SG. Actually, Bullock could probably function some at SG. *if healthy*

Possible PG's: DSJr/Frank/Payton

Possible SG's: RJ/Trier/Dotson/Ellington/Frank/Bullock (this isn't even including 2 PG sets with Payton and DSJr)

Now the fun parts

Possible SF's: Morris/Knox/Bullock/Dotson/RJ/Iggy/Frank (not including 3 guard line ups where Trier could be here or Ellington)

Possible PF's: Randle/Morris/Knox/Portis/Taj/Iggy

Possible C's: Mitch/Randle/Portis/Taj

Anyone I list at any position I'm not touting a pure player for that position or potential starter. Just guys that could see time at that position or have seen time at that position.


Could be really interesting or a real sh*t show. Since it's the Knicks...

[Deeeez Knicks]

Doesn't Payton kind of split the Frank/DSJr strengths and weaknesses?

Without listing them all out, hopefully it's understood what I mean.

As each player is currently understood to be, minus any off-season improvements that may or may not have happened.

That's a reason why sometimes I wonder if he'll start. Well, that and how Perry strongly backs "his" guys

I guess I'm not saying anything new, which after 5 months of off-season, no one really is, but the Knicks have a LOT of guards/wings and all of them are flawed in some way. Going to be VERY interesting who gets the starting nod at PG, SG and then, who is in the rotation backing up PG, SG and SF, since at least 3 of the guards can legitimately see time at SF, plus Fiz liked to go 3 guard alignments a lot anyway, then Morris, Knox and Bullock all are capable of seeing time at SF, but not SG. Actually, Bullock could probably function some at SG. *if healthy*

Possible PG's: DSJr/Frank/Payton

Possible SG's: RJ/Trier/Dotson/Ellington/Frank/Bullock (this isn't even including 2 PG sets with Payton and DSJr)

Now the fun parts

Possible SF's: Morris/Knox/Bullock/Dotson/RJ/Iggy/Frank (not including 3 guard line ups where Trier could be here or Ellington)

Possible PF's: Randle/Morris/Knox/Portis/Taj/Iggy

Possible C's: Mitch/Randle/Portis/Taj

Anyone I list at any position I'm not touting a pure player for that position or potential starter. Just guys that could see time at that position or have seen time at that position.


Could be really interesting or a real sh*t show. Since it's the Knicks...

Payton is the steadier PG with experience and can run an offense, and probably the better passer of the 3 so I think I see what you are saying. PG should be an interesting competition. I think DSJ and Payton will end up splitting minutes pretty evenly.

I can see why we signed him, but not really a fan of it.

[thebuzzardman]

Doesn't Payton kind of split the Frank/DSJr strengths and weaknesses?

Without listing them all out, hopefully it's understood what I mean.

As each player is currently understood to be, minus any off-season improvements that may or may not have happened.

That's a reason why sometimes I wonder if he'll start. Well, that and how Perry strongly backs "his" guys

I guess I'm not saying anything new, which after 5 months of off-season, no one really is, but the Knicks have a LOT of guards/wings and all of them are flawed in some way. Going to be VERY interesting who gets the starting nod at PG, SG and then, who is in the rotation backing up PG, SG and SF, since at least 3 of the guards can legitimately see time at SF, plus Fiz liked to go 3 guard alignments a lot anyway, then Morris, Knox and Bullock all are capable of seeing time at SF, but not SG. Actually, Bullock could probably function some at SG. *if healthy*

Possible PG's: DSJr/Frank/Payton

Possible SG's: RJ/Trier/Dotson/Ellington/Frank/Bullock (this isn't even including 2 PG sets with Payton and DSJr)

Now the fun parts

Possible SF's: Morris/Knox/Bullock/Dotson/RJ/Iggy/Frank (not including 3 guard line ups where Trier could be here or Ellington)

Possible PF's: Randle/Morris/Knox/Portis/Taj/Iggy

Possible C's: Mitch/Randle/Portis/Taj

Anyone I list at any position I'm not touting a pure player for that position or potential starter. Just guys that could see time at that position or have seen time at that position.


Could be really interesting or a real sh*t show. Since it's the Knicks...

Payton is the steadier PG with experience and can run an offense, and probably the better passer of the 3 so I think I see what you are saying. PG should be an interesting competition. I think DSJ and Payton will end up splitting minutes pretty evenly.

I can see why we signed him, but not really a fan of it.

Pretty much where I'm at. Like, I see the logic, or what it could be, but preferred they didn't go down that road.

[robillionaire]

We don’t even have that many PGs. Frank and DSJ were both injured last year, we don’t even know if the Knicks consider Frank to even be a valid option at PG, and Kadeem Allen sucks. Payton has missed quite a few games the last two seasons as well. We needed another PG on the roster and you could do worse than Payton, a guy who plays team basketball and can pass unlike Bootyay and Burke

[spree2kawhi]

To me this should be approached as another tanking season, so Payton doesn't make any sense to me. Should have rather acquired Dunn+an asset from the Bulls.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Would be nice to know how the team views Frank. It would also be nice to know there is an actual system on offense. They talked a lot about defensive identity in the beginning yet...Fiz would often have the worst defenders on the floor. As excited as I am to see us rebuilding...I still have concerns about who is running things. I can only hope some questions get answered this year. Camp starts in 2 days!!! We get to see them play in 8 days!!!

[robillionaire]

To me this should be approached as another tanking season, so Payton doesn't make any sense to me. Should have rather acquired Dunn+an asset from the Bulls.

The Knicks aren't approaching it as another tanking season but give it until New Years and rest assured they'll be locked back into tanking again

[malik959]

We have enough youth, it's time to step up and let them learn how to win. If we continue to lose we're going to start losing our fans. It's time for results. No more tanking, our fan base deserves some wins

[god shammgod]

I like Frank but, he can't hold Triers jockstrap. Trier was the ONLY guard (as I said) that shot at an acceptable level. The others aren't even NBA level. Frank look good with the French team but, lets be real, that does NOT always translate to the NBA. He has a lot to prove before he can even be in the conversation with any of the guard on this team.

I believe Frank can't hold Trier's jockstrap because he can't pry it from Shammgod's hands

Watch on YouTube

[Jose7]

We have enough youth, it's time to step up and let them learn how to win. If we continue to lose we're going to start losing our fans. It's time for results. No more tanking, our fan base deserves some wins

we been losing for 20 years+ and still one of the most valuable franchises.. fandom don't matter unfortunately. Knicks are a cash cow for dolan so ownership aint never changing.

[Zenzibar]

I like Frank but, he can't hold Triers jockstrap. Trier was the ONLY guard (as I said) that shot at an acceptable level. The others aren't even NBA level. Frank look good with the French team but, lets be real, that does NOT always translate to the NBA. He has a lot to prove before he can even be in the conversation with any of the guard on this team.

I believe Frank can't hold Trier's jockstrap because he can't pry it from Shammgod's hands

Watch on YouTube

Yoo, how are they gonna keep this weapon off the court? Trier has been working alongside the real Harden this summer too!

[HarthorneWingo]

I believe Frank can't hold Trier's jockstrap because he can't pry it from Shammgod's hands

Watch on YouTube

Yoo, how are they gonna keep this weapon off the court? Trier has been working alongside the real Harden this summer too!

Trier is going to break Wilt's scoring record

[thebuzzardman]

I believe Frank can't hold Trier's jockstrap because he can't pry it from Shammgod's hands

Watch on YouTube

Yoo, how are they gonna keep this weapon off the court? Trier has been working alongside the real Harden this summer too!

Trier's jock is a weapon?

[BLACKFEET 2010]

What exactly is the upside to NOT picking up Frank’s option?? Please don’t overthink this Pills.