Democratic Primary Thread: The Deuce

[robillionaire]

Personally, I think there's political capital to be gained by both sides. Even if Biden wins the White House, it will still take both sides of the aisle to pass policy to fix the major issues that have been neglected - sustainability, infrastructure, education, diplomatic policy. If a move like this sets the stage for even a modest improvement in bipartisanship, it's worth exploring at minimal risk. Once the scary boogeyman is gone, going back to political bickering as usual would be such a waste of an opportunity.

No it won't. We're going to take back the Senate as well so we'll have all three branches of government with no filibuster. They can watch from the sidelines and whine. And it's STILL not a good idea. Republicans have urinated on us for 40 years. Please stop with this nonsense. Who are theses voter who's going to be persuaded by Kasich that already aren't off the Trump train? lmao

How about the reverse effect on 45 and under democrats who Biden is trying to cull?

Christos breaks it down

Watch on YouTube

The same demographic that couldn't be bothered to vote for the guy they actually said they cared about?

They have proven nothing but their unreliability. They didn't earn being catered to to the point that you exclude appeals to other potential voters.

if only people under 45 voted trump would never have sniffed office and this world would already be radically better so save the snark

[Clyde_Style]

They are trying to distance themselves because they think he is going to lose and they don't want to be dragged down with him because they know as long as their party is associated with the likes of trump in the future they will lose all power. It's not country before party and it's not a patriotic gesture. It's politics. They made their bed and I say let them lay in it. Let them have the stink of trump on them forever because that's what their party is all about and like it or not trump is the logical end result of what happens when they get their way

Not every Republican is a Trump person. Kasich was considerate to be a moderate one. He didn't make his bed with Trump.

He can switch parties then. That party must be relegated to the dustbin of history if humanity wants to have a hope for survival going forward. That is if they haven't already done enough damage by stacking the courts for generations. They were vile even before Trump.

Quite a few already have.

I'm all for relegating the GOP to the history books. They earned it. The demographics are not in their favor and this last term may have been their last attempt at conservative white males to hold on to and consolidate their power. History may negate any such attempts in the future.

But in the meantime, I'm not going to get bogged down in purity tests when this is a winner takes all election. Anybody that helps win this in a massive landslide that takes back the WH and the Senate is welcome to chip in. A Republican or two at a convention is not going to damage progressive causes and shift the party a smidgen back to the right. The trend is left of center and that will continue and construing conservative or anti-Trump republicans helping to defeat Trump as some kind of awful taint on the party is simply not going to matter one damn bit. But it might help, so I support whomever supports us.

There will be no wedding vows required for Kusich or Rick Wilson. It's a wham bam thank you maam kind of deal simply because Trump is a fascist white supremacist devil and everybody who is sane deserves to contribute to his and the GOP's demise. Kusich and Wilson are helping to destroy the GOP and they know it, because it is not the party they signed up to. It's a mongoloid Tea-Party mutated POS tribe of klansmen and grifters with a shuffling orange hag beast at the helm they are destroying.

[robillionaire]

Not every Republican is a Trump person. Kasich was considerate to be a moderate one. He didn't make his bed with Trump.

He can switch parties then. That party must be relegated to the dustbin of history if humanity wants to have a hope for survival going forward. That is if they haven't already done enough damage by stacking the courts for generations. They were vile even before Trump.

Quite a few already have.

I'm all for relegating the GOP to the history books. They earned it. The demographics are not in their favor and this last term may have been their last attempt at conservative white males to hold on to and consolidate their power. History may negate any such attempts in the future.

But in the meantime, I'm not going to get bogged down in purity tests when this is a winner takes all election. Anybody that helps win this in a massive landslide that takes back the WH and the Senate is welcome to chip in. A Republican or two at a convention is not going to damage progressive causes and shift the party a smidgen back to the right. The trend is left of center and that will continue and construing conservative or anti-Trump republicans helping to defeat Trump as some kind of awful taint on the party is simply not going to matter one damn bit. But it might help, so I support whomever supports us.

There will be no wedding vows required for Kusich or Rick Wilson. It's a wham bam thank you maam kind of deal simply because Trump is a fascist white supremacist devil and everybody who is sane deserves to contribute to his and the GOP's demise. Kusich and Wilson are helping to destroy the GOP and they know it, because it is not the party they signed up to. It's a mongoloid Tea-Party mutated POS clan of klansmen and grifters with a shuffling orange hag beast at the helm they are destroying.

If you want to suggest let's use them as a means to an end in this election, sure, totally understandable. but you'll have to spare me the whole these guys are patriotic heroes stuff because I don't trust a snake

[GONYK]

No it won't. We're going to take back the Senate as well so we'll have all three branches of government with no filibuster. They can watch from the sidelines and whine. And it's STILL not a good idea. Republicans have urinated on us for 40 years. Please stop with this nonsense. Who are theses voter who's going to be persuaded by Kasich that already aren't off the Trump train? lmao

How about the reverse effect on 45 and under democrats who Biden is trying to cull?

Christos breaks it down

Watch on YouTube

The same demographic that couldn't be bothered to vote for the guy they actually said they cared about?

They have proven nothing but their unreliability. They didn't earn being catered to to the point that you exclude appeals to other potential voters.

if only people under 45 voted trump would never have sniffed office and this world would already be radically better so save the snark

Well, that's not what happened in 2016 and it's not what happened in the Primary. Do you want to wager that only people under 45 will vote in the general?

If not, then it's probably better to pursue actual votes in the real world.

[robillionaire]

The same demographic that couldn't be bothered to vote for the guy they actually said they cared about?

They have proven nothing but their unreliability. They didn't earn being catered to to the point that you exclude appeals to other potential voters.

if only people under 45 voted trump would never have sniffed office and this world would already be radically better so save the snark

Well, that's not what happened in 2016 and it's not what happened in the Primary. Do you want to wager that only people under 45 will vote in the general?

If not, then it's probably better to pursue actual votes in the real world.

it's what happened in 2008 and 2012 and what would have likely continued to happen had the party sided with this demographic instead of against it

[Clyde_Style]

He can switch parties then. That party must be relegated to the dustbin of history if humanity wants to have a hope for survival going forward. That is if they haven't already done enough damage by stacking the courts for generations. They were vile even before Trump.

Quite a few already have.

I'm all for relegating the GOP to the history books. They earned it. The demographics are not in their favor and this last term may have been their last attempt at conservative white males to hold on to and consolidate their power. History may negate any such attempts in the future.

But in the meantime, I'm not going to get bogged down in purity tests when this is a winner takes all election. Anybody that helps win this in a massive landslide that takes back the WH and the Senate is welcome to chip in. A Republican or two at a convention is not going to damage progressive causes and shift the party a smidgen back to the right. The trend is left of center and that will continue and construing conservative or anti-Trump republicans helping to defeat Trump as some kind of awful taint on the party is simply not going to matter one damn bit. But it might help, so I support whomever supports us.

There will be no wedding vows required for Kusich or Rick Wilson. It's a wham bam thank you maam kind of deal simply because Trump is a fascist white supremacist devil and everybody who is sane deserves to contribute to his and the GOP's demise. Kusich and Wilson are helping to destroy the GOP and they know it, because it is not the party they signed up to. It's a mongoloid Tea-Party mutated POS clan of klansmen and grifters with a shuffling orange hag beast at the helm they are destroying.

If you want to suggest let's use them as a means to an end in this election, sure, totally understandable. but you'll have to spare me the whole these guys are patriotic heroes stuff because I don't trust a snake

ha ha I'm not the rah rah flag waving kind of guy so I don't pump up the jams and slap people on the back for being "patriots"

What I was really talking about is how lots of people DO engage in banter about being patriots and seeing prominent republicans declare it as their patriotic duty to vote for Biden does mean something to those people if they start to accept that the very real meme of country over party = maintaining their patriotic duty to uphold and defend the constitutional rights of Americans from without and within the nation

So I do expect some pretty hard core speeches from some Republicans that declare Trump a threat to our nation and our democracy and I do expect them to call it a patriotic duty to oppose this despot

Crossing the aisle to put country over the party is very clearly going to be equated as an act of patriotism. I'm just giving you a heads up then on what to expect

[robillionaire]

Quite a few already have.

I'm all for relegating the GOP to the history books. They earned it. The demographics are not in their favor and this last term may have been their last attempt at conservative white males to hold on to and consolidate their power. History may negate any such attempts in the future.

But in the meantime, I'm not going to get bogged down in purity tests when this is a winner takes all election. Anybody that helps win this in a massive landslide that takes back the WH and the Senate is welcome to chip in. A Republican or two at a convention is not going to damage progressive causes and shift the party a smidgen back to the right. The trend is left of center and that will continue and construing conservative or anti-Trump republicans helping to defeat Trump as some kind of awful taint on the party is simply not going to matter one damn bit. But it might help, so I support whomever supports us.

There will be no wedding vows required for Kusich or Rick Wilson. It's a wham bam thank you maam kind of deal simply because Trump is a fascist white supremacist devil and everybody who is sane deserves to contribute to his and the GOP's demise. Kusich and Wilson are helping to destroy the GOP and they know it, because it is not the party they signed up to. It's a mongoloid Tea-Party mutated POS clan of klansmen and grifters with a shuffling orange hag beast at the helm they are destroying.

If you want to suggest let's use them as a means to an end in this election, sure, totally understandable. but you'll have to spare me the whole these guys are patriotic heroes stuff because I don't trust a snake

ha ha I'm not the rah rah flag waving kind of guy so I don't pump up the jams and slap people on the back for being "patriots"

What I was really talking about is how lots of people DO engage in banter about being patriots and seeing prominent republicans declare it as their patriotic duty to vote for Biden does mean something to those people if they start to accept that the very real meme of country over party = maintaining their patriotic duty to uphold and defend the constitutional rights of Americans from without and within the nation

So I do expect some pretty hard core speeches from some Republicans that declare Trump a threat to our nation and our democracy and I do expect them to call it a patriotic duty to oppose this despot

Crossing the aisle to put country over the party is very clearly going to be equated as an act of patriotism. I'm just giving you a heads up then on what to expect

Yeah I hear you. I guess I just will never be able to accept that's the motive.

[Clyde_Style]

If you want to suggest let's use them as a means to an end in this election, sure, totally understandable. but you'll have to spare me the whole these guys are patriotic heroes stuff because I don't trust a snake

ha ha I'm not the rah rah flag waving kind of guy so I don't pump up the jams and slap people on the back for being "patriots"

What I was really talking about is how lots of people DO engage in banter about being patriots and seeing prominent republicans declare it as their patriotic duty to vote for Biden does mean something to those people if they start to accept that the very real meme of country over party = maintaining their patriotic duty to uphold and defend the constitutional rights of Americans from without and within the nation

So I do expect some pretty hard core speeches from some Republicans that declare Trump a threat to our nation and our democracy and I do expect them to call it a patriotic duty to oppose this despot

Crossing the aisle to put country over the party is very clearly going to be equated as an act of patriotism. I'm just giving you a heads up then on what to expect

Yeah I hear you. I guess I just will never be able to accept that's the motive.

Watch on YouTube

[j4remi]

Well, we're certainly not going to see any McConnells or Grahams attending the DNC. Kasich's days of being a meaningful player in GOP politics are pretty much over. What I think it does do is appeal to the more moderate GOP players remaining, which is all it might take to not only take majority in both houses but also provide the cover of bipartisanship. If the GOP suffers meaningful defeats in November (and this is still a BIG if), then the GOP is going to be facing an existential crisis and will have to adopt a different strategy to take back real estate among the mass voting blocks. With the Democrats inching further left, there will be room in the middle opening up for the GOP if they choose their candidates wisely.

For sure, the challenge here is how big the if's are with this proposal. If the GOP suffer big defeats, they'll need to shift strategies for sure. I'm not so certain that strategy shifts them left though, so that's a second major if. That's not to see I don't understand where you're coming from though, the logic makes a lot of sense. I'm just skeptical it goes that way, I suspect we'll see more of a rhetorical shift than a genuine change in direction toward the middle.

[Clyde_Style]

Well, we're certainly not going to see any McConnells or Grahams attending the DNC. Kasich's days of being a meaningful player in GOP politics are pretty much over. What I think it does do is appeal to the more moderate GOP players remaining, which is all it might take to not only take majority in both houses but also provide the cover of bipartisanship. If the GOP suffers meaningful defeats in November (and this is still a BIG if), then the GOP is going to be facing an existential crisis and will have to adopt a different strategy to take back real estate among the mass voting blocks. With the Democrats inching further left, there will be room in the middle opening up for the GOP if they choose their candidates wisely.

For sure, the challenge here is how big the if's are with this proposal. If the GOP suffer big defeats, they'll need to shift strategies for sure. I'm not so certain that strategy shifts them left though, so that's a second major if. That's not to see I don't understand where you're coming from though, the logic makes a lot of sense. I'm just skeptical it goes that way, I suspect we'll see more of a rhetorical shift than a genuine change in direction toward the middle.

Post-Trump GOP will either dig itself further into the ground by pandering to the Trump base or they will attempt to chart a long-term strategy to rebuild their relevance and that could take a decade or more if they succeeded.

The GOP veered so hard into the narrow lane of corrupt power mongering there may be too many creeps still in office for the next 2-4 years for the party to unify and re-set its course.

I suspect the GOP may never regain full power again. If they fail to show any potential to run the show in the next 6-8 years I'd expect a strong defection to some kind of libertarian third party that will attempt to pull conservative leaning Democrats and independents into its wake.

[GONYK]

if only people under 45 voted trump would never have sniffed office and this world would already be radically better so save the snark

Well, that's not what happened in 2016 and it's not what happened in the Primary. Do you want to wager that only people under 45 will vote in the general?

If not, then it's probably better to pursue actual votes in the real world.

it's what happened in 2008 and 2012 and what would have likely continued to happen had the party sided with this demographic instead of against it

I mean, that's obviously not true. 53% of the voting population in 2008 was over 45. But I acknowledge your larger point.

Maybe you're right. I have always said that Bernie would have won in 2016. I also think Biden would have won though.

This past Primary was a chance to really prove that case, and Bernie's voters let him down in a very significant way. So did Warren's. I don't know how we can frankly talk about political calculus without acknowledging that.

So when it comes to political strategy, I don't think it's snark to say that it's not worth making those voters the cornerstone. Every election cycle is it's own animal, and they didn't accrue enough political capital this time around.

Especially since we're talking about a situation where no one is ignoring them, just letting Kasich make the case to open minded Republicans.

[Pointgod]

Well, we're certainly not going to see any McConnells or Grahams attending the DNC. Kasich's days of being a meaningful player in GOP politics are pretty much over. What I think it does do is appeal to the more moderate GOP players remaining, which is all it might take to not only take majority in both houses but also provide the cover of bipartisanship. If the GOP suffers meaningful defeats in November (and this is still a BIG if), then the GOP is going to be facing an existential crisis and will have to adopt a different strategy to take back real estate among the mass voting blocks. With the Democrats inching further left, there will be room in the middle opening up for the GOP if they choose their candidates wisely.

For sure, the challenge here is how big the if's are with this proposal. If the GOP suffer big defeats, they'll need to shift strategies for sure. I'm not so certain that strategy shifts them left though, so that's a second major if. That's not to see I don't understand where you're coming from though, the logic makes a lot of sense. I'm just skeptical it goes that way, I suspect we'll see more of a rhetorical shift than a genuine change in direction toward the middle.

If the GOP weren’t racist dipshits they would have owned politics for the next 2 decades. A lot of black people are politically more Conservative and the same trend with Hispanic voters, especially ones with religious roots. The fact that they don’t bother to even try to stop their dog whistling racism and stupidity just speaks to the power of racism and white supremacy in the country. Well hopefully they never figure out that even their white voters have zero critical thought and will just vote for the Republicans even if they switched their positions.

[Pointgod]

Well, we're certainly not going to see any McConnells or Grahams attending the DNC. Kasich's days of being a meaningful player in GOP politics are pretty much over. What I think it does do is appeal to the more moderate GOP players remaining, which is all it might take to not only take majority in both houses but also provide the cover of bipartisanship. If the GOP suffers meaningful defeats in November (and this is still a BIG if), then the GOP is going to be facing an existential crisis and will have to adopt a different strategy to take back real estate among the mass voting blocks. With the Democrats inching further left, there will be room in the middle opening up for the GOP if they choose their candidates wisely.

For sure, the challenge here is how big the if's are with this proposal. If the GOP suffer big defeats, they'll need to shift strategies for sure. I'm not so certain that strategy shifts them left though, so that's a second major if. That's not to see I don't understand where you're coming from though, the logic makes a lot of sense. I'm just skeptical it goes that way, I suspect we'll see more of a rhetorical shift than a genuine change in direction toward the middle.

Post-Trump GOP will either dig itself further into the ground by pandering to the Trump base or they will attempt to chart a long-term strategy to rebuild their relevance and that could take a decade or more if they succeeded.

The GOP veered so hard into the narrow lane of corrupt power mongering there may be too many creeps still in office for the next 2-4 years for the party to unify and re-set its course.

I suspect the GOP may never regain full power again. If they fail to show any potential to run the show in the next 6-8 years I'd expect a strong defection to some kind of libertarian third party that will attempt to pull conservative leaning Democrats and independents into its wake.

Well if Democrats get control of all three branches of government they better pass a slew of reforms that will make the GOP all but irrelevant unless they severely shift back to the realm of reality and sane people.

[GONYK]

Well, we're certainly not going to see any McConnells or Grahams attending the DNC. Kasich's days of being a meaningful player in GOP politics are pretty much over. What I think it does do is appeal to the more moderate GOP players remaining, which is all it might take to not only take majority in both houses but also provide the cover of bipartisanship. If the GOP suffers meaningful defeats in November (and this is still a BIG if), then the GOP is going to be facing an existential crisis and will have to adopt a different strategy to take back real estate among the mass voting blocks. With the Democrats inching further left, there will be room in the middle opening up for the GOP if they choose their candidates wisely.

For sure, the challenge here is how big the if's are with this proposal. If the GOP suffer big defeats, they'll need to shift strategies for sure. I'm not so certain that strategy shifts them left though, so that's a second major if. That's not to see I don't understand where you're coming from though, the logic makes a lot of sense. I'm just skeptical it goes that way, I suspect we'll see more of a rhetorical shift than a genuine change in direction toward the middle.

Post-Trump GOP will either dig itself further into the ground by pandering to the Trump base or they will attempt to chart a long-term strategy to rebuild their relevance and that could take a decade or more if they succeeded.

The GOP veered so hard into the narrow lane of corrupt power mongering there may be too many creeps still in office for the next 2-4 years for the party to unify and re-set its course.

I suspect the GOP may never regain full power again. If they fail to show any potential to run the show in the next 6-8 years I'd expect a strong defection to some kind of libertarian third party that will attempt to pull conservative leaning Democrats and independents into its wake.

I think they are hoping Trump loses, so they can remake themselves as the party of Romney (again).

I would love to think they are headed for a wilderness period, but I don't think that is true. The country to too divided, and the battle lines will be redrawn once we exorcise the cancer that is Trump. Republicans will be back relatively quickly, IMO. They are better at local and state levels.

That being said, there may be a slim opportunity for some veneer of civility to return to our government. Hopefully, the Trump enablers will all be flushed out, and there will be more pragmatism over tribalism.

[Clyde_Style]

For sure, the challenge here is how big the if's are with this proposal. If the GOP suffer big defeats, they'll need to shift strategies for sure. I'm not so certain that strategy shifts them left though, so that's a second major if. That's not to see I don't understand where you're coming from though, the logic makes a lot of sense. I'm just skeptical it goes that way, I suspect we'll see more of a rhetorical shift than a genuine change in direction toward the middle.

Post-Trump GOP will either dig itself further into the ground by pandering to the Trump base or they will attempt to chart a long-term strategy to rebuild their relevance and that could take a decade or more if they succeeded.

The GOP veered so hard into the narrow lane of corrupt power mongering there may be too many creeps still in office for the next 2-4 years for the party to unify and re-set its course.

I suspect the GOP may never regain full power again. If they fail to show any potential to run the show in the next 6-8 years I'd expect a strong defection to some kind of libertarian third party that will attempt to pull conservative leaning Democrats and independents into its wake.

Well if Democrats get control of all three branches of government they better pass a slew of reforms that will make the GOP all but irrelevant unless they severely shift back to the realm of reality and sane people.

That and anti-fascist measures that restore the checks and balances away from executive privilege

More voter protections and giving people the day off to vote

It also requires state legislatures to go blue and to undo the gerrymandering BS

And true campaign finance reform especially so the Putins of world can't use the NRA to buy a country like he did. Who do people think held McConnell's purse strings?

Nobody seems to think about it, talk about it or even care, but I hope Biden and congress does. Joe's message to Putin today gave me wood. I hope that resolve translates into legislation that cuts out corporate puppet masters and truly invigorates real democracy

[Clyde_Style]

For sure, the challenge here is how big the if's are with this proposal. If the GOP suffer big defeats, they'll need to shift strategies for sure. I'm not so certain that strategy shifts them left though, so that's a second major if. That's not to see I don't understand where you're coming from though, the logic makes a lot of sense. I'm just skeptical it goes that way, I suspect we'll see more of a rhetorical shift than a genuine change in direction toward the middle.

Post-Trump GOP will either dig itself further into the ground by pandering to the Trump base or they will attempt to chart a long-term strategy to rebuild their relevance and that could take a decade or more if they succeeded.

The GOP veered so hard into the narrow lane of corrupt power mongering there may be too many creeps still in office for the next 2-4 years for the party to unify and re-set its course.

I suspect the GOP may never regain full power again. If they fail to show any potential to run the show in the next 6-8 years I'd expect a strong defection to some kind of libertarian third party that will attempt to pull conservative leaning Democrats and independents into its wake.

I think they are hoping Trump loses, so they can remake themselves as the party of Romney (again).

I would love to think they are headed for a wilderness period, but I don't think that is true. The country to too divided, and the battle lines will be redrawn once we exorcise the cancer that is Trump. Republicans will be back relatively quickly, IMO. They are better at local and state levels.

That being said, there may be a slim opportunity for some veneer of civility to return to our government. Hopefully, the Trump enablers will all be flushed out, and there will be more pragmatism over tribalism.

You could be right. It may have taken a pandemic to take them down, but that also means there will still be a large part of the population willing to vote for anything red under every other scenario.

My premise is in part predicated on what we're seeing in Arizona and Texas. The voter registration in Texas is surging for Dems and stagnant for the GOP. Demographics may shut out the GOP more than than anything unless they can figure out how to dominate the Latino vote.

Romney is a self-serving dick, but he certainly proved himself to be a more honorable man than every last GOP Senator. Still, he bet on the right side of history for his own personal reasons IMO and he may reap the rewards of that.

[HarthorneWingo]

He can switch parties then. That party must be relegated to the dustbin of history if humanity wants to have a hope for survival going forward. That is if they haven't already done enough damage by stacking the courts for generations. They were vile even before Trump.

Quite a few already have.

I'm all for relegating the GOP to the history books. They earned it. The demographics are not in their favor and this last term may have been their last attempt at conservative white males to hold on to and consolidate their power. History may negate any such attempts in the future.

But in the meantime, I'm not going to get bogged down in purity tests when this is a winner takes all election. Anybody that helps win this in a massive landslide that takes back the WH and the Senate is welcome to chip in. A Republican or two at a convention is not going to damage progressive causes and shift the party a smidgen back to the right. The trend is left of center and that will continue and construing conservative or anti-Trump republicans helping to defeat Trump as some kind of awful taint on the party is simply not going to matter one damn bit. But it might help, so I support whomever supports us.

There will be no wedding vows required for Kusich or Rick Wilson. It's a wham bam thank you maam kind of deal simply because Trump is a fascist white supremacist devil and everybody who is sane deserves to contribute to his and the GOP's demise. Kusich and Wilson are helping to destroy the GOP and they know it, because it is not the party they signed up to. It's a mongoloid Tea-Party mutated POS clan of klansmen and grifters with a shuffling orange hag beast at the helm they are destroying.

If you want to suggest let's use them as a means to an end in this election, sure, totally understandable. but you'll have to spare me the whole these guys are patriotic heroes stuff because I don't trust a snake

What could Kasich conceivably say about anything that matters to Democrats? That he hates Trump? Wow, thanks. After that, what is there? Name me one policy that he could speak to that matters to us? He's not just some benign politician. He was the destructive governor of Ohio.

[HarthorneWingo]

Queen Pelosi won't debate the peasant.

Watch on YouTube

[robillionaire]

Quite a few already have.

I'm all for relegating the GOP to the history books. They earned it. The demographics are not in their favor and this last term may have been their last attempt at conservative white males to hold on to and consolidate their power. History may negate any such attempts in the future.

But in the meantime, I'm not going to get bogged down in purity tests when this is a winner takes all election. Anybody that helps win this in a massive landslide that takes back the WH and the Senate is welcome to chip in. A Republican or two at a convention is not going to damage progressive causes and shift the party a smidgen back to the right. The trend is left of center and that will continue and construing conservative or anti-Trump republicans helping to defeat Trump as some kind of awful taint on the party is simply not going to matter one damn bit. But it might help, so I support whomever supports us.

There will be no wedding vows required for Kusich or Rick Wilson. It's a wham bam thank you maam kind of deal simply because Trump is a fascist white supremacist devil and everybody who is sane deserves to contribute to his and the GOP's demise. Kusich and Wilson are helping to destroy the GOP and they know it, because it is not the party they signed up to. It's a mongoloid Tea-Party mutated POS clan of klansmen and grifters with a shuffling orange hag beast at the helm they are destroying.

If you want to suggest let's use them as a means to an end in this election, sure, totally understandable. but you'll have to spare me the whole these guys are patriotic heroes stuff because I don't trust a snake

What could Kasich conceivably say about anything that matters to Democrats? That he hates Trump? Wow, thanks. After that, what is there? Name me one policy that he could speak to that matters to us? He's not just some benign politician. He was the destructive governor of Ohio.

Policy? Hilarious. Read the room Wingo. Nobody cares about that.

[robillionaire]

For sure, the challenge here is how big the if's are with this proposal. If the GOP suffer big defeats, they'll need to shift strategies for sure. I'm not so certain that strategy shifts them left though, so that's a second major if. That's not to see I don't understand where you're coming from though, the logic makes a lot of sense. I'm just skeptical it goes that way, I suspect we'll see more of a rhetorical shift than a genuine change in direction toward the middle.

Post-Trump GOP will either dig itself further into the ground by pandering to the Trump base or they will attempt to chart a long-term strategy to rebuild their relevance and that could take a decade or more if they succeeded.

The GOP veered so hard into the narrow lane of corrupt power mongering there may be too many creeps still in office for the next 2-4 years for the party to unify and re-set its course.

I suspect the GOP may never regain full power again. If they fail to show any potential to run the show in the next 6-8 years I'd expect a strong defection to some kind of libertarian third party that will attempt to pull conservative leaning Democrats and independents into its wake.

I think they are hoping Trump loses, so they can remake themselves as the party of Romney (again).

I would love to think they are headed for a wilderness period, but I don't think that is true. The country to too divided, and the battle lines will be redrawn once we exorcise the cancer that is Trump. Republicans will be back relatively quickly, IMO. They are better at local and state levels.

That being said, there may be a slim opportunity for some veneer of civility to return to our government. Hopefully, the Trump enablers will all be flushed out, and there will be more pragmatism over tribalism.

I do think that they are hoping Trump loses so they can remake themselves the party of Romney but the problem is that they already let the cat out of the bag so to say and their voters who have now morphed into a full on cult of worshipping trump won't be so eager to let that happen. If you'll recall, many of the establishment republicans did not want trump to win in 2016. They didn't realize what their own voting base consisted of.