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PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts

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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#261 » by Jalen Bluntson » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:15 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
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You just make my argument for me, it's hilarious to be honest. Ben Simmons finished second in DPOY voting, and Rudy Gobert has won 3 of those awards, they are both garbage men. Jesus, youre using his defense against a 19 year old rookie as proof of what? The guys he's going to be judged on are Embiid, Bam and Kristaps because one of those 3 guys will be facing off against him in the playoffs more than likely if we make it.

How is this different from all the people that swore Ben Simmons wasn't a problem for the Sixers? Both occupy the dunkers spot, both play with players that love to play in the paint. Both cannot make freethrows and Simmons was more skilled. Your defense cannot make up for your offense in the playoffs when you're a guy that cannot create or space when your opponent can. You're arguing something that has repeatedly failed in the modern NBA.


Defenses get tighter in the playoffs. Isn't that what everyone uses as an argument against offensive players? I didn't necessarily disagree with you about the issues created by the lack of spacing Mitch provides on offense. I don't agree that he's a problem for this team though and, should we find this miracle offensive center you want, we can always move Mitch to the bench.

Or we could assume that this is what the HC wants from his players and blame him? We have seen countless videos of Mitch shooting threes and driving from the perimeter to score. We never see any of it in games though. When iHart is out there, we don't see him spreading the floor much either.



It's going to be a problem, it was a problem against the Heat because he is a big reason they can run zone with impunity. He wasn't able to dominate the glass against them and got thoroughly outplayed by Bam. Also, like just think about this, the Celtics with all their wing talent and guards still decided they needed a C that could score for himself and stretch the floor, they had their own Mitch and needed more even though they have Tatum/Brown.

He's shooting 40% from the line, there isn't a coach in the world that would let someone like that shoot threes. The Celtics also gave you a hint of what they would do to him in a close game with that petty hack-a possession where they sent him to the line. Imagine a playoff game vs them in Boston, 3 mins to go and we're down 3, what do you think they're going to do with him on the floor?


The entire team was injured vs the Heat and Bam was getting away with illegal picks with impunity. Using his injured round and ignoring his first round dominance doesn't make sense. Whatever though. Find an offensive center, then get Thibs to play him that way. Until then Mitch is fine doing what he does for us. You can't ignore his offensive rebounding impact on our offense either. It's a key component. :dontknow:
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#262 » by TheGreenArrow » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:20 am

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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#263 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:37 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Id rather keep Brunson, Grimes, RJ then add Lavine or Derozan at what they would cost. They really don't fit.

The only way I see that Lavine could make sense is if we are moving Randle... Not sure if that would put us in a better spot

It seems to me that we would be in a worse spot, tbh. Derozan is playing SF for the Bulls, I believe, but whatever. We have RJ now playing All Star level basketball and, besides the occasional migraine or other weird injury, he plays every game just like Randle (sans the migraines). Are we now moving Grimes to the bench to take IQ's role (I assume that we'd be moving IQ in the deal). Personally I don't like the looks of this from a chemistry standpoint. I don't feel it.

And the big question is, who would replace Randle at PF?


Agree. It doesn’t really make sense for the Knicks. I don’t really feel that one either
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#264 » by stuporman » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:37 am

A few things I see in the thread I'll touch on...

It's great to see so many in the Knicks media not sold on and even against on adding second or third tier 'stars' like Lavine only wanting to see a move for an elite tier 1 or MVP caliber type player. This is less pressure on the FO to make an ill-advised move like that from a public perspective but how the FO also happens to be 'do the opposite' of what the media wants mean we can almost expect a silly move like that.

On the strength of schedule, I'm not sure the exact formula but I doubt it includes the added measure of back to backs let alone missing players. The Knicks have had more than half their games on back to backs already so it's not just as simple as the SOS we see. Plus the Knicks have had some issues with bad starts from players so this won't show up in that stat either.

Lastly with Mitch and him having to guard stretch bigs, it wouldn't be as much of a problem if the other big, namely Randle wasn't so gawd awful at protecting the rim. He's an absolute zero in that regard, but Mitch has to hedge off his man and try to recover. So if Randle wasn't so bad at protecting the rim then Mitch wouldn't be looking as exposed, it's Randle, not Mitch that is the problem with that.

Carry on with the tour, I"m sure it's going well.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#265 » by Jalen Bluntson » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:40 am

TheGreenArrow wrote:
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In the meantime, they can balance he roster a little bit. A backup PF would be nice.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#266 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:49 am

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Id rather keep Brunson, Grimes, RJ then add Lavine or Derozan at what they would cost. They really don't fit.

The only way I see that Lavine could make sense is if we are moving Randle... Not sure if that would put us in a better spot

It seems to me that we would be in a worse spot, tbh. Derozan is playing SF for the Bulls, I believe, but whatever. We have RJ now playing All Star level basketball and, besides the occasional migraine or other weird injury, he plays every game just like Randle (sans the migraines). Are we now moving Grimes to the bench to take IQ's role (I assume that we'd be moving IQ in the deal). Personally I don't like the looks of this from a chemistry standpoint. I don't feel it.

And the big question is, who would replace Randle at PF?


Agree. It doesn’t really make sense for the Knicks. I don’t really feel that one either


I hate to say this because I really do like what Donte brings to the team but I just don’t think he’s what we needed. I think we needed a 3/4 to come off the bench with some length and shooting ability.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#267 » by Jalen Bluntson » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:51 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:It seems to me that we would be in a worse spot, tbh. Derozan is playing SF for the Bulls, I believe, but whatever. We have RJ now playing All Star level basketball and, besides the occasional migraine or other weird injury, he plays every game just like Randle (sans the migraines). Are we now moving Grimes to the bench to take IQ's role (I assume that we'd be moving IQ in the deal). Personally I don't like the looks of this from a chemistry standpoint. I don't feel it.

And the big question is, who would replace Randle at PF?


Agree. It doesn’t really make sense for the Knicks. I don’t really feel that one either


I hate to say this because I really do like what Donte brings to the team but I just don’t like he’s what we needed. I think we needed a 3/4 to come off the bench with some length and shooting ability.


They got a decent player but, we didn't need him.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#268 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:52 am

I’d we would’ve had RJ last night, we might’ve won this game. I’m not upset. Just get the Hawks tomorrow night in Atlanta.

Who’s doing the game thread? Better it be some plebe.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#269 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:56 am

Jalen Bluntson wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Agree. It doesn’t really make sense for the Knicks. I don’t really feel that one either


I hate to say this because I really do like what Donte brings to the team but I just don’t like he’s what we needed. I think we needed a 3/4 to come off the bench with some length and shooting ability.


They got a decent player but, we didn't need him.

Sure maybe Obi wasn’t that guy. He wanted out anyhow because he’s young and wants a chance to play starter’s minutes. I’m talking about acquiring an actual bench player like PJ Washington who was I think the last free agent signed.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#270 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:57 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:It seems to me that we would be in a worse spot, tbh. Derozan is playing SF for the Bulls, I believe, but whatever. We have RJ now playing All Star level basketball and, besides the occasional migraine or other weird injury, he plays every game just like Randle (sans the migraines). Are we now moving Grimes to the bench to take IQ's role (I assume that we'd be moving IQ in the deal). Personally I don't like the looks of this from a chemistry standpoint. I don't feel it.

And the big question is, who would replace Randle at PF?


Agree. It doesn’t really make sense for the Knicks. I don’t really feel that one either


I hate to say this because I really do like what Donte brings to the team but I just don’t think he’s what we needed. I think we needed a 3/4 to come off the bench with some length and shooting ability.


When everyone is healthy it has actually looked really good. But when one of RJ, Randle, or Hart is out or struggling, there is a big hole that nobody on the roster can fill. We should still be able to make a move, even if it’s a minor depth move.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#271 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:14 am

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Agree. It doesn’t really make sense for the Knicks. I don’t really feel that one either


I hate to say this because I really do like what Donte brings to the team but I just don’t think he’s what we needed. I think we needed a 3/4 to come off the bench with some length and shooting ability.


When everyone is healthy it has actually looked really good. But when one of RJ, Randle, or Hart is out or struggling, there is a big hole that nobody on the roster can fill. We should still be able to make a move, even if it’s a minor depth move.


Like Santi Aldama! :lol:
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#272 » by god shammgod » Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:51 am

actually mitch did a very good job dropping back and recovering on kp in the 1st half. but in the 2nd half he was told by thibs to go double tatum, they mentioned on the msg broadcast the thibs was screaming at him to double, and that became the priority over getting back to kp because josh could not guard tatum at all. some of you have the game on but you're not really paying attention it seems.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#273 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:03 am

god shammgod wrote:Image




3ppg vs 25.5ppg
6rpg vs 7rpg


"Actually he's doing a very good job" Rupert Shamdoch :lol:
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#274 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:11 am

god shammgod wrote:actually mitch did a very good job dropping back and recovering on kp in the 1st half. but in the 2nd half he was told by thibs to go double tatum, they mentioned on the msg broadcast the thibs was screaming at him to double, and that became the priority over getting back to kp because josh could not guard tatum at all. some of you have the game on but you're not really paying attention it seems.


Tatum has too much length on Josh. That was very apparent. Why wasn't Randle guarding Tatum. Sure, he'll get by Randle but then he'd have to deal with Mitch.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#275 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:17 am

stuporman wrote:A few things I see in the thread I'll touch on...

It's great to see so many in the Knicks media not sold on and even against on adding second or third tier 'stars' like Lavine only wanting to see a move for an elite tier 1 or MVP caliber type player. This is less pressure on the FO to make an ill-advised move like that from a public perspective but how the FO also happens to be 'do the opposite' of what the media wants mean we can almost expect a silly move like that.

On the strength of schedule, I'm not sure the exact formula but I doubt it includes the added measure of back to backs let alone missing players. The Knicks have had more than half their games on back to backs already so it's not just as simple as the SOS we see. Plus the Knicks have had some issues with bad starts from players so this won't show up in that stat either.

Lastly with Mitch and him having to guard stretch bigs, it wouldn't be as much of a problem if the other big, namely Randle wasn't so gawd awful at protecting the rim. He's an absolute zero in that regard, but Mitch has to hedge off his man and try to recover. So if Randle wasn't so bad at protecting the rim then Mitch wouldn't be looking as exposed, it's Randle, not Mitch that is the problem with that.

Carry on with the tour, I"m sure it's going well.

I agree with the first two paragraphs. With Mitch, why not just switch so that Randle is guarding the stretch big and keep Mitch around the basket?
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#276 » by The Vo Show » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:23 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
stuporman wrote:A few things I see in the thread I'll touch on...

It's great to see so many in the Knicks media not sold on and even against on adding second or third tier 'stars' like Lavine only wanting to see a move for an elite tier 1 or MVP caliber type player. This is less pressure on the FO to make an ill-advised move like that from a public perspective but how the FO also happens to be 'do the opposite' of what the media wants mean we can almost expect a silly move like that.

On the strength of schedule, I'm not sure the exact formula but I doubt it includes the added measure of back to backs let alone missing players. The Knicks have had more than half their games on back to backs already so it's not just as simple as the SOS we see. Plus the Knicks have had some issues with bad starts from players so this won't show up in that stat either.

Lastly with Mitch and him having to guard stretch bigs, it wouldn't be as much of a problem if the other big, namely Randle wasn't so gawd awful at protecting the rim. He's an absolute zero in that regard, but Mitch has to hedge off his man and try to recover. So if Randle wasn't so bad at protecting the rim then Mitch wouldn't be looking as exposed, it's Randle, not Mitch that is the problem with that.

Carry on with the tour, I"m sure it's going well.

I agree with the first two paragraphs. With Mitch, why not just switch so that Randle is guarding the stretch big and keep Mitch around the basket?


Or play a zone made for 5 out like you suggested before. At some point, we need to devise a defense for 5 out teams anyway. Boston isn't the only team playing 5 out.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#277 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:28 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:I’d we would’ve had RJ last night, we might’ve won this game. I’m not upset. Just get the Hawks tomorrow night in Atlanta.

Who’s doing the game thread? Better it be some plebe.


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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#278 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:31 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
stuporman wrote:A few things I see in the thread I'll touch on...

It's great to see so many in the Knicks media not sold on and even against on adding second or third tier 'stars' like Lavine only wanting to see a move for an elite tier 1 or MVP caliber type player. This is less pressure on the FO to make an ill-advised move like that from a public perspective but how the FO also happens to be 'do the opposite' of what the media wants mean we can almost expect a silly move like that.

On the strength of schedule, I'm not sure the exact formula but I doubt it includes the added measure of back to backs let alone missing players. The Knicks have had more than half their games on back to backs already so it's not just as simple as the SOS we see. Plus the Knicks have had some issues with bad starts from players so this won't show up in that stat either.

Lastly with Mitch and him having to guard stretch bigs, it wouldn't be as much of a problem if the other big, namely Randle wasn't so gawd awful at protecting the rim. He's an absolute zero in that regard, but Mitch has to hedge off his man and try to recover. So if Randle wasn't so bad at protecting the rim then Mitch wouldn't be looking as exposed, it's Randle, not Mitch that is the problem with that.

Carry on with the tour, I"m sure it's going well.

I agree with the first two paragraphs. With Mitch, why not just switch so that Randle is guarding the stretch big and keep Mitch around the basket?


All of the Celtics lineups are 5 out, they don't have a single interior player that plays exclusively near the basket. They are built to exploit frontcourts like ours, they can guard our guys while their goal is to negate rim protection with spacing. Very few teams have Power forwards that can guard the rim too, it's a rarity for one to be excellent at rim protection too. The Heat are semi 5 out as well, Bam may not shoot threes but he operates outside the paint as a passer and starts drives from up top.

The holy grail of team construction right now are 5 out teams with size, they can guard big or small lineups and make teams pay for being small. We have a roster construction where any skill big that can also defend will pose a problem.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#279 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:55 am

The Vo Show wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
stuporman wrote:A few things I see in the thread I'll touch on...

It's great to see so many in the Knicks media not sold on and even against on adding second or third tier 'stars' like Lavine only wanting to see a move for an elite tier 1 or MVP caliber type player. This is less pressure on the FO to make an ill-advised move like that from a public perspective but how the FO also happens to be 'do the opposite' of what the media wants mean we can almost expect a silly move like that.

On the strength of schedule, I'm not sure the exact formula but I doubt it includes the added measure of back to backs let alone missing players. The Knicks have had more than half their games on back to backs already so it's not just as simple as the SOS we see. Plus the Knicks have had some issues with bad starts from players so this won't show up in that stat either.

Lastly with Mitch and him having to guard stretch bigs, it wouldn't be as much of a problem if the other big, namely Randle wasn't so gawd awful at protecting the rim. He's an absolute zero in that regard, but Mitch has to hedge off his man and try to recover. So if Randle wasn't so bad at protecting the rim then Mitch wouldn't be looking as exposed, it's Randle, not Mitch that is the problem with that.

Carry on with the tour, I"m sure it's going well.

I agree with the first two paragraphs. With Mitch, why not just switch so that Randle is guarding the stretch big and keep Mitch around the basket?


Or play a zone made for 5 out like you suggested before. At some point, we need to devise a defense for 5 out teams anyway. Boston isn't the only team playing 5 out.

Yes, I wanted to see some zone too. I don't understand why Thibs wouldn't do this. shammgod says that Mitch was getting back for rebounds but he was still out of position for deterring drives into the lane. Zone was the way to go.
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Re: PG: Knicks fall short in loss to Celts 

Post#280 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:44 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:I’d we would’ve had RJ last night, we might’ve won this game. I’m not upset. Just get the Hawks tomorrow night in Atlanta.

Who’s doing the game thread? Better it be some plebe.


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