PG: Knicks lose to Thunder

[Parraknick]

If I believed we would learn something from this loss, I would have said good loss. But Thibs won’t change. He thinks playing starters more than any other team is something like a cheat code. He thinks this way we can outscore other teams’ bench and that would be an advantage. And it works out well most of the time especially against inferior teams. Well guess what? There is always a breaking point and tonight was one. We needed a bench tonight to keep starters fresh. Instead, Thibs rode them harder than usual and we have this outcome.

Players will learn from tonight. Additionally, we should be able to figure out how to better take advantage of our most obvious mismatch (KAT).

Bro, they will go nowhere if they don’t PLAY A BENCH. YOU NEED BENCH PLAYERS, YOU CANT PLAY THE STARTING FIVE EACH 40+ MINS

Where did I say starters should play 40 plus minutes?

[Parraknick]

Pretty much everyone can play better, our strategy can improve and we almost came away with the win.

We have a blueprint for success against his team. We should be able to get the W with a bit better execution when we rematch.

Mikal is looking so good, credit to him

Until Chet comes back then it’s back to the drawing board for us.

We’re over here trying to rest the hopes of the season on Mitchell Robinson giving us 10 mins a game when thibs has already messed up his own head just trying to get precious involved

Some of these guys talk about Mitch like we're getting back prime David Robinson

We are getting back a man whose hands are like feet. Hopefully he proves me wrong…

[nedleeds]

Before the complaints start rolling in, please remember this was ONE game. We took on the NBA's #1 defense and went down to the wire. This was NOT a blowout. KNICKS are right in the mix.

On to the next!

We've played the easiest schedule in the NBA and haven't won against a top 4 team in the East or West.

We bank fake wins against Orlando twice with no starters.

We better be healthy down the stretch because the schedule flips.

[TheGreenArrow]

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[GettinitDone]

KAT attempting or making 0 3s is unacceptable to me... he's our best 3 pt threat and like Will Hardy said when he knocks down 1 or 2, it warps the opponents' minds... and it opens up our offense.

The ball stuck too much to JB's and Josh's hands, dribble dribble dribble looking for someone open to pass to to pad up their assists, I love them, but move the ball roomies !! A hot Mikal barely shot in 2nd half, and KAT took only 1 shot in 4th q.

We take what the defense gives us, fair enough... but there should be a rule, when we're not getting anything for a few possessions in a row, we check the stats sheet, KAT below 20 pts, we should start feeding him... when we're struggling we're getting away from something good we've been doing... we should keep checking.

[Parraknick]

Everyone saying the bench sucks but where is the proof? Have we seen them play enough minutes to even judge them?

Have we seen them play alongside different starters? You know, staggering bench and starter minutes to find lineups that work? Why is it that “scrub of the night” exists for every team in the league except the Knicks?

Regardless, we had a 12-14 point lead and we lost it with the starters playing. Would we have lost it with the bench being involved? Maybe. But would the starters have been more rested to compete harder in the 4th? Also a possibility. We’ll never know.

We know we don’t have a great whistle. We know towns and Brunson are getting hammered all game long with no calls. Is that sustainable for 40 mins a night all season long? Thibs has no brain in his head. He hasn’t been any kind of basketball genius in over a decade. Times have changed

I think most of us agree with this but have RSI from typing it all in so many other post game threads.

[Context]

Look at their bench players draft spots...mostly second rounders and a UFA.

They just know how to pick 'em.

Correct. The Knicks bench is ass.

I know you don't want to give them any excuses but to be fair, after 3 big trades in less than a year for the quality of players they acquired will deplete a bench and not leave much time to replenish it.

Not sure how the Knicks will fill it out from here on but coming into this season after all the moves made we all kinda knew the bench was going to be an issue, so being salty fans about it won't change that.

This isn't a one year window the Knicks have and after only 35 games of a newly formed starting unit this team battled the best in the league on their own floor with a historically elite defense down to the wire.

It stings to be up 8 going into the 4th and not finish the job but it is what it is, context matters though, too.

yeah- the bold is what Ive thought about the most. I hate to lose a game like that...and I feel like Kat should get a better whistle...

[JayTWill]

Ajay Mitchell played 13 minutes for them, he was the 38th pick by us


Their bench is castaways, Isaiah Joe was cut by the Sixers and Wiggins the guy that lit us up was the 55th pick.

Guess we need more Sims and Hukporti

Giving Pacome/Kolek meaningful minutes with the starters to develop them and help ease the minutes load on the starters is too much to ask? We have the least played bench in 20 years, there have been worse benches on better teams that have played more than this one.

The Thunder give Ajay Mitchell 16mpg, and have been doing that since the start of the season so that when the time comes to play another top team they're comfortable seeing if he has it on that night. He had it tonight. If the second best team in the NBA can find minutes for a 2nd round pick, we should try expanding the rotation to more than just 7 guys.

Yeah, I was curious to see how the young guys were performing in the 1st half of games since they are rarely in the regular rotation and when they are they rarely come back in the second half before garbage time. I was surprised to see the team actually performed pretty well with them on the court and it wasn't the death sentence that would you think with the way Thibs handles the rotation.

On a game by game basis Pacome's minutes were a little up and down as expected but Kolek's minutes were for the most part consistently good while Hukporti's minutes were fine in his few opportunities. Overall they have some of the best net ratings in their limited time and their shooting percentages were pretty good also.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*nyk&GameSegment=First%20Half&dir=A&sort=NET_RATING

Oddly enough some of the best net ratings in the first half have been the guys that Thibs has benched in the second half. For some reason we have been able to survive their minutes in the first half but Thibs must feel the team can't survive their minutes in the second half or on a regular basis. I wish I could look at their 2nd half minutes without the garbage time included.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Knicks won 9 straight, 19-5 in their past 24 games and people are dumb enough to call for the coach to be replaced. Ridiculous. For those complaining about thibs bench minutes, thibs started the 4th with precious, payne, and shamet, and what happened? The game was completely turned around, if thibs played the bench more they probably lose by over 20, which brings me to my point, it’s not that thibs doesn’t want to use his bench, it’s the bench especially without deuce isn’t good enough.

Here's a novel idea, stagger the lineups so that it isn't just 4 bench guys and 1 starter. Why were Payne and Shamet out there together? The minutes cannot just be pushed to the side, they were an issue when we were winning because everyone can see he's riding the starters to get wins. The same problem we've had in the 4th has come up again, which is three falling flat and our defense vanishing because guys are tired. We had a 154 DRTG in the 4th quarter, to put in perspective how bad that is, the Wiz defense has a 120 DRTG on the season. We have a 119 (before tonight) DRTG in the 4th quarter on the season. That has been a problem all season long, and it's due to the minutes he asks of these guys.


Whether the bench is good with or without Deuce, you have to play the bench because it keeps the starters fresh. Maybe we go down 8 and fight back, but the theme on the season has been horrible 4th quarter defense. I cannot understand how we went through last season, saw the team fall apart, then this season he's playing guys even more than last season and you guys still defend it.

[TheGreenArrow]

Ajay Mitchell played 13 minutes for them, he was the 38th pick by us


Their bench is castaways, Isaiah Joe was cut by the Sixers and Wiggins the guy that lit us up was the 55th pick.

Guess we need more Sims and Hukporti

Giving Pacome/Kolek meaningful minutes with the starters to develop them and help ease the minutes load on the starters is too much to ask? We have the least played bench in 20 years, there have been worse benches on better teams that have played more than this one.

The Thunder give Ajay Mitchell 16mpg, and have been doing that since the start of the season so that when the time comes to play another top team they're comfortable seeing if he has it on that night. He had it tonight. If the second best team in the NBA can find minutes for a 2nd round pick, we should try expanding the rotation to more than just 7 guys.

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[K_ick_God]

Why is it btw that the Knicks are the only team where their coaches just decide certain things are not for them?

Play your bench, ha, sorry I’m not an egghead analytics guy. Feed the hot player or get Towns going from 3 — nah who cares. Let’s try to get Towns inside as much as possible. Hold for the last shot — fans don’t know what they’re talking about.

Mike D’Antoni refused to read advanced scouting reports.

Larry Brown basically refused to coach at all.

I like Thibs actually. But I think he willfully ignores any attempt to see around the corner.

[RHODEY]

Before the complaints start rolling in, please remember this was ONE game. We took on the NBA's #1 defense and went down to the wire. This was NOT a blowout. KNICKS are right in the mix.

On to the next!

We've played the easiest schedule in the NBA and haven't won against a top 4 team in the East or West.

We bank fake wins against Orlando twice with no starters.

We better be healthy down the stretch because the schedule flips.

How many of those top 4 teams did we play at home? Just one....and we were dominating them until we feel asleep at the wheel. But back then Mikal was playing like dodo now hes playing like Chad.0 we also had no other bigs outside of Towns.

The schedule makers love screwing us over, but I guarantee once we start playing these elite teams at home the wins will roll in. They are really good teams ...but so are we.

[Buttah304]

All I know is that there have been far too many occasions over the last couple of years where the Knicks get hit with one counter punch and we look shook. I’m talking anything from: getting picked up 90 feet out, Jalen facing 30+ traps, seeing a zone, the opposition pushing the pace after every defensive rebound, a coach who wants to spam 3s, deploying multiple wings on Brunson, having our 1-5 P&R coverage exploited, facing a highly switchable unit, teams with a stretch 5 and many other examples.

It just feels like once a coaching staff figures out a weakness of ours we don’t the ability to pivot in real time. The game becomes a pressure cooker and to me what separates the elite from the rest of the pack is that they can get hit, then punch back from two different angles you never saw coming.

[ezmoney707]

Before the complaints start rolling in, please remember this was ONE game. We took on the NBA's #1 defense and went down to the wire. This was NOT a blowout. KNICKS are right in the mix.

On to the next!

We've played the easiest schedule in the NBA and haven't won against a top 4 team in the East or West.

We bank fake wins against Orlando twice with no starters.

We better be healthy down the stretch because the schedule flips.

To play devils advocate the Nuggets and Orlando are top 4 teams in their respective conferences and that Orlando team you are calling fake wins without Franz and Paolo has beaten the Celtics and almost beat the team we lost to tonight.

[KnicksGadfly]

Before the complaints start rolling in, please remember this was ONE game. We took on the NBA's #1 defense and went down to the wire. This was NOT a blowout. KNICKS are right in the mix.

On to the next!

We've played the easiest schedule in the NBA and haven't won against a top 4 team in the East or West.

We bank fake wins against Orlando twice with no starters.

We better be healthy down the stretch because the schedule flips.

Welcome back man - we’ve missed you for the past 9 games or something. I blame our loss on 28 year old Hart

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The Knicks are 27th in the league defensively in the 4th quarter, we are net -6.1 which is 24th in the league. Someone tried to say it was because of blowouts earlier, well the Thunder, Cavs and Celtics are +8.9, 8.7 and 6.0 in the 4th.

Our offense also goes from 2nd in the league to 14th in the 4th but keep defending not playing bench guys at all. Diminishing returns hits our starters hard in the 4th because they are tired, more so against good teams that don't play their 5 guys 40 minutes in January.

[kNicksGmen]

Scored nearly 70 in the 1st half and barely 40 in the 2nd. Thibs out coached once again.

[stuporman]

Correct. The Knicks bench is ass.

I know you don't want to give them any excuses but to be fair, after 3 big trades in less than a year for the quality of players they acquired will deplete a bench and not leave much time to replenish it.

Not sure how the Knicks will fill it out from here on but coming into this season after all the moves made we all kinda knew the bench was going to be an issue, so being salty fans about it won't change that.

This isn't a one year window the Knicks have and after only 35 games of a newly formed starting unit this team battled the best in the league on their own floor with a historically elite defense down to the wire.

It stings to be up 8 going into the 4th and not finish the job but it is what it is, context matters though, too.

yeah- the bold is what Ive thought about the most. I hate to lose a game like that...and I feel like Kat should get a better whistle...

Yes, the Knicks played a very good game but they surely didn't play their best game. There are still some stretches on both ends of the court that shows they aren't bringing their A game and against the best teams in the league the 4th quarter decides it.

In this game they didn't execute and it definitely was in part playing the best defense in the league. They pressure the ball, make passing hard and force people in to difficult shots. The Knicks know there has to be improvements and it's games like these that will show them where it needs to be made.

I know people on here are losing their minds over it but it really is just one in the process of building continuity under duress. Even if they pulled out a win sure fans would be pumped yet it still is just one game...in January. Of course that won't stop the meltdown, fans be like that.

[Context]

The Knicks are 27th in the league defensively in the 4th quarter, we are net -6.1 which is 24th in the league. Someone tried to say it was because of blowouts earlier, well the Thunder, Cavs and Celtics are +8.9, 8.7 and 6.0 in the 4th.

Our offense also goes from 2nd in the league to 14th in the 4th but keep defending not playing bench guys at all. Diminishing returns hits our starters hard in the 4th because they are tired, more so against good teams that don't play their 5 guys 40 minutes in January.

[TheGreenArrow]

The Knicks are 27th in the league defensively in the 4th quarter, we are net -6.1 which is 24th in the league. Someone tried to say it was because of blowouts earlier, well the Thunder, Cavs and Celtics are +8.9, 8.7 and 6.0 in the 4th.

Our offense also goes from 2nd in the league to 14th in the 4th but keep defending not playing bench guys at all. Diminishing returns hits our starters hard in the 4th because they are tired, more so against good teams that don't play their 5 guys 40 minutes in January.

That’s because Brunson goes in to ballhog Mode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’m sick of that ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!