PG: Knicks lose again to Cavs

[god shammgod]

y'all overrate the talent on this team

[djsunyc]

y'all overrate the talent on this team

brunson + kat = bad defense

[NYKat]

As much as I think Thibs is the problem, I’d be willing to give him another year to try to figure it out if he commits to being flexible, open minded and less rigid in his coaching…

I don’t think I would give up on this roster either, I think continuity and chemistry is undervalued in this league. This core, in its current incarnation, has only been together for a year.

[Clyde_Style]

Lol @ the it’s all Brunson’s fault crew

Brunson needs a coach
KAT needs a coach
Mikal needs a coach
Hart needs a coach
even OG needs a coach

Everybody needs a coach

Identify the pattern and win one free month of posting privileges on RealGM!

[Clyde_Style]

As much as I think Thibs is the problem, I’d be willing to give him another year to try to figure it out if he commits to being flexible, open minded and less rigid in his coaching…

I don’t think I would give up on this roster either, I think continuity and chemistry is undervalued in this league. This core, in its current incarnation, has only been together for a year.

If you're not ready to give up on this roster then you should want to replace the coach.

Not wanting to give up on either means you don't know what you are actually supporting.

I do agree with not giving up on the roster even if they might need to tweak it further in the off-season.

You have to change coaches if you want to unlock this roster. It will NEVER happen under Thibs.

How could you possibly need another year to evaluate Thibs? You already know EVERYTHING there is to know about him. Another year is not going to uncover some surprising coaching twist.

[Reign23]

IF things go south in the playoffs, the moves are firing Thibs and splitting Mikal into more parts that fit better imo.
But lets no jump the gun just yet.

[3toheadmelo]

KD is a classic panic move, there are ways to fix this team and turn them into a contender that don't require trading more assets than we get back.

A secondary big that can shoot threes would open things up, but the coach has to be willing to make the three the absolute priority of the sets. None of the moves we make matter if we're still 27th in the league in threes.

Idc if it’s a panic move, this team isn’t winning sht no matter who the coach is

We were 13th in the league in attempting 3s last year. Thibs encourages us to take 3s. Donte averaged a career high in attempts 3s last year. The issue is that hart and Mikal don’t take 3s. Thats the big
difference.

One player cannot be your entire three point offense, we took 35.8 last year and 34.0 this year, the difference is that everyone takes more now, because last years team would be 21st in threes among the teams this year. We didn't adapt to the explosion in three point shooting that happened this year. KAT has his lowest three point attempt rate since he was 23, we replaced a non shooting center with arguably the best shooting big ever and manage to take less threes

Also, last years team was bad against .500 or better teams too. We were 21-28 vs .500 or better, this year we were 15-23 against .500 or better, how can two different rosters be bad against .500 or better? We both know the answer.

Last year’s team wasn’t winless against the top 3 seeds tho.


KAT is averaging 4.7 3PAs a game this year which is actually higher than his career average, 4.3. And I don’t want him jacking up 3s all game anyways. Thats what he did in the WCF and he was putting up historic bricks which was why they lost to Dallas. I rather him bully small players like he did to Boston.

[3toheadmelo]

y'all overrate the talent on this team

There are people here comparing Thibs to mark Jackson. Apparently this roster has the best shooter of all time, a HOFer defender and the best shooting guard since Ray Allen that Thibs is holding back. Not serious people

[3toheadmelo]

y'all overrate the talent on this team

brunson + kat = bad defense

Add in Hart and Mikal who have been cones as well. OG is legit the only good defender we have in the starting lineup.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Idc if it’s a panic move, this team isn’t winning sht no matter who the coach is

We were 13th in the league in attempting 3s last year. Thibs encourages us to take 3s. Donte averaged a career high in attempts 3s last year. The issue is that hart and Mikal don’t take 3s. Thats the big
difference.

One player cannot be your entire three point offense, we took 35.8 last year and 34.0 this year, the difference is that everyone takes more now, because last years team would be 21st in threes among the teams this year. We didn't adapt to the explosion in three point shooting that happened this year. KAT has his lowest three point attempt rate since he was 23, we replaced a non shooting center with arguably the best shooting big ever and manage to take less threes

Also, last years team was bad against .500 or better teams too. We were 21-28 vs .500 or better, this year we were 15-23 against .500 or better, how can two different rosters be bad against .500 or better? We both know the answer.

Last year’s team wasn’t winless against the top 3 seeds tho.


KAT is averaging 4.7 3PAs a game this year which is actually higher than his career average, 4.3. And I don’t want him jacking up 3s all game anyways. Thats what he did in the WCF and he was putting up historic bricks which was why they lost to Dallas. I rather him bully small players like he did to Boston.

Knicks record vs .500 or better

15-23
21-28
24-25
19-35
15-21

The only time we beat the Celtics last year is without your guy

KAT averaged 4.6 threes his last year with Tom, he averages 4.7 his first year back with Tom. In the 5 seasons he played without Tom, he averaged 6 a game. His lowest three point attempts was his rookie year was 1.1 per game which is averaged into his "career average" that you're talking about, his lowest three point rates outside of his first two years are all with Tom. Who said anything about him shooting threes all game? He needs to be up to 6-8 per game, like Kristaps and Horford, who combine for nearly 12 a game. You're not beating Boston trading 2s in the post vs their 3s, the Sixers failed doing that for years against them with Embiid, and that was before they had Kristaps. It's why all the serious contenders are top 10 in threes per game.


When you gonna talk about that 5 year record vs .500 or better, my brother?

[thebuzzardman]

y'all overrate the talent on this team

brunson + kat = bad defense

It should equal good offense but Thibs can’t even manage that

[Deeeez Knicks]

Swap Mitch for Hart in the starting lineup and always stagger Brunson/KAT with KAT at C with the bench lineup. Hart as our 6th man

Think that would fit better with how Thibs wants to play

Thibs is a good coach just not the coach who can take this roster to the next level in today's game. We still have to make some other tweaks but really we aren't that that far away

But Boston right now is just stacked and will be tough to beat no matter what

[Deeeez Knicks]

Biggest difference between this years team and last year's team is iHart and Mitch missing most the year too. Huge losses and we are still about on pace

[Adelheid]

Swap Mitch for Hart in the starting lineup and always stagger Brunson/KAT with KAT at C with the bench lineup. Hart as our 6th man

Think that would fit better with how Thibs wants to play

Thibs is a good coach just not the coach who can take this roster to the next level in today's game. We still have to make some other tweaks but really we aren't that that far away

But Boston right now is just stacked and will be tough to beat no matter what

that requires imagination on the coaching staff's end....no need to say more why it wont happen

[3toheadmelo]

One player cannot be your entire three point offense, we took 35.8 last year and 34.0 this year, the difference is that everyone takes more now, because last years team would be 21st in threes among the teams this year. We didn't adapt to the explosion in three point shooting that happened this year. KAT has his lowest three point attempt rate since he was 23, we replaced a non shooting center with arguably the best shooting big ever and manage to take less threes

Also, last years team was bad against .500 or better teams too. We were 21-28 vs .500 or better, this year we were 15-23 against .500 or better, how can two different rosters be bad against .500 or better? We both know the answer.

Last year’s team wasn’t winless against the top 3 seeds tho.


KAT is averaging 4.7 3PAs a game this year which is actually higher than his career average, 4.3. And I don’t want him jacking up 3s all game anyways. Thats what he did in the WCF and he was putting up historic bricks which was why they lost to Dallas. I rather him bully small players like he did to Boston.

Knicks record vs .500 or better

15-23
21-28
24-25
19-35
15-21

The only time we beat the Celtics last year is without your guy

KAT averaged 4.6 threes his last year with Tom, he averages 4.7 his first year back with Tom. In the 5 seasons he played without Tom, he averaged 6 a game. His lowest three point attempts was his rookie year was 1.1 per game which is averaged into his "career average" that you're talking about, his lowest three point rates outside of his first two years are all with Tom. Who said anything about him shooting threes all game? He needs to be up to 6-8 per game, like Kristaps and Horford, who combine for nearly 12 a game. You're not beating Boston trading 2s in the post vs their 3s, the Sixers failed doing that for years against them with Embiid, and that was before they had Kristaps. It's why all the serious contenders are top 10 in threes per game.


When you gonna talk about that 5 year record vs .500 or better, my brother?

We still beat a couple teams in the top 3. That's better than going 0-10 this year


KAT's only success last year in the playoffs were when he took an average of 4.5 3PAs in the first and second rounds, which is right around his average now. In the WCF is where he started jacking up 6.6 3PAs and it hurt his team drastically. So I'm not sure why you are arguing for him to take more 3s when that was his biggest downfall in the playoffs.

[Clyde_Style]

Swap Mitch for Hart in the starting lineup and always stagger Brunson/KAT with KAT at C with the bench lineup. Hart as our 6th man

Think that would fit better with how Thibs wants to play

Thibs is a good coach just not the coach who can take this roster to the next level in today's game. We still have to make some other tweaks but really we aren't that that far away

But Boston right now is just stacked and will be tough to beat no matter what

Maybe we should retire the old "Thibs is a good coach, but ........" phrase

because at a certain point the cutoff should be: can you coach or not?

Once upon a time Thibs may have been a good coach, but he is not good any longer.

He is now a dinosaur incapable of strategic matchups and in-game adjustments. I'd say that disqualifies him from being called good at his job at this point.

He's a bad coach now. Just own the truth and let it set you free.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Last year’s team wasn’t winless against the top 3 seeds tho.


KAT is averaging 4.7 3PAs a game this year which is actually higher than his career average, 4.3. And I don’t want him jacking up 3s all game anyways. Thats what he did in the WCF and he was putting up historic bricks which was why they lost to Dallas. I rather him bully small players like he did to Boston.

Knicks record vs .500 or better

15-23
21-28
24-25
19-35
15-21

The only time we beat the Celtics last year is without your guy

KAT averaged 4.6 threes his last year with Tom, he averages 4.7 his first year back with Tom. In the 5 seasons he played without Tom, he averaged 6 a game. His lowest three point attempts was his rookie year was 1.1 per game which is averaged into his "career average" that you're talking about, his lowest three point rates outside of his first two years are all with Tom. Who said anything about him shooting threes all game? He needs to be up to 6-8 per game, like Kristaps and Horford, who combine for nearly 12 a game. You're not beating Boston trading 2s in the post vs their 3s, the Sixers failed doing that for years against them with Embiid, and that was before they had Kristaps. It's why all the serious contenders are top 10 in threes per game.


When you gonna talk about that 5 year record vs .500 or better, my brother?

We still beat a couple teams in the top 3. That's better than going 0-10 this year


KAT's only success last year in the playoffs were when he took an average of 4.5 3PAs in the first and second rounds, which is right around his average now. In the WCF is where he started jacking up 6.6 3PAs and it hurt his team drastically. So I'm not sure why you are arguing for him to take more 3s when that was his biggest downfall in the playoffs.

A couple top 3 teams last year were the Wolves and Nuggets So, you're saying the Wolves with KAT were a contender? You're admitting that you can indeed have a contender with him, or are you not counting that? Cause those are the only good teams we beat last year with the mid PF, matter of fact, the Wolves beat the Thunder 2 times this sseason without REDACTED . Neither of those teams are on the level of the Cavs, Thunder or Celtics.


The Mavs shrank the floor, guys have bad series, you should know that first hand. But, enough ducking and dodging, when you gonna address the losing record vs .500 teams the last 5 years? We are way way under .500 and you still talking about it's not the coach through 5 different versions of a team.

[3toheadmelo]

Knicks record vs .500 or better

15-23
21-28
24-25
19-35
15-21

The only time we beat the Celtics last year is without your guy

KAT averaged 4.6 threes his last year with Tom, he averages 4.7 his first year back with Tom. In the 5 seasons he played without Tom, he averaged 6 a game. His lowest three point attempts was his rookie year was 1.1 per game which is averaged into his "career average" that you're talking about, his lowest three point rates outside of his first two years are all with Tom. Who said anything about him shooting threes all game? He needs to be up to 6-8 per game, like Kristaps and Horford, who combine for nearly 12 a game. You're not beating Boston trading 2s in the post vs their 3s, the Sixers failed doing that for years against them with Embiid, and that was before they had Kristaps. It's why all the serious contenders are top 10 in threes per game.


When you gonna talk about that 5 year record vs .500 or better, my brother?

We still beat a couple teams in the top 3. That's better than going 0-10 this year


KAT's only success last year in the playoffs were when he took an average of 4.5 3PAs in the first and second rounds, which is right around his average now. In the WCF is where he started jacking up 6.6 3PAs and it hurt his team drastically. So I'm not sure why you are arguing for him to take more 3s when that was his biggest downfall in the playoffs.

A couple top 3 teams last year were the Wolves and Nuggets So, you're saying the Wolves with KAT were a contender? You're admitting that you can indeed have a contender with him, or are you not counting that? Cause those are the only good teams we beat last year with the mid PF. Neither of those teams are on the level of the Cavs, Thunder or Celtics.


The Mavs shrank the floor, guys have bad series, you should know that first hand. But, enough ducking and dodging, when you gonna address the losing record vs .500 teams the last 5 years? We are way way under .500 and you still talking about it's not the coach through 5 different versions of a team.

Yeah the Timberwolves were contenders with KAT at PF, which is his true position. But you kept ignoring that because you somehow believe he should be at the 5 which never worked under any coach he's played under and it's still the same story as I predicted it to be.

When are you going to address us going 0-10?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

We still beat a couple teams in the top 3. That's better than going 0-10 this year


KAT's only success last year in the playoffs were when he took an average of 4.5 3PAs in the first and second rounds, which is right around his average now. In the WCF is where he started jacking up 6.6 3PAs and it hurt his team drastically. So I'm not sure why you are arguing for him to take more 3s when that was his biggest downfall in the playoffs.

A couple top 3 teams last year were the Wolves and Nuggets So, you're saying the Wolves with KAT were a contender? You're admitting that you can indeed have a contender with him, or are you not counting that? Cause those are the only good teams we beat last year with the mid PF. Neither of those teams are on the level of the Cavs, Thunder or Celtics.


The Mavs shrank the floor, guys have bad series, you should know that first hand. But, enough ducking and dodging, when you gonna address the losing record vs .500 teams the last 5 years? We are way way under .500 and you still talking about it's not the coach through 5 different versions of a team.

Yeah the Timberwolves were contenders with KAT at PF, which is his true position. But you kept ignoring that because you somehow believe he should be at the 5 which never worked under any coach he's played under and it's still the same story as I predicted it to be.

When are you going to address us going 0-10?

I asked when you were going to address the 5 year record, the coach sucks, that's why we're 0-10 vs contenders. When you gonna talk about why 5 different iterations of Knicks rosters cannot beat .500 or better teams. A 10 game sample size is a lot smaller than 226 games.


We are 94-132 in 5 years vs .500 or better teams, you blame the players every single year, and every single year the Knicks change in some ways, we don't even have 1 starter left from the team 5 years ago and somehow we finished 15-23 when they finished 15-21. The only thing constant is the guy you refuse to blame The team you miss was 21-28 vs .500 or better squads last year.

[3toheadmelo]

A couple top 3 teams last year were the Wolves and Nuggets So, you're saying the Wolves with KAT were a contender? You're admitting that you can indeed have a contender with him, or are you not counting that? Cause those are the only good teams we beat last year with the mid PF. Neither of those teams are on the level of the Cavs, Thunder or Celtics.


The Mavs shrank the floor, guys have bad series, you should know that first hand. But, enough ducking and dodging, when you gonna address the losing record vs .500 teams the last 5 years? We are way way under .500 and you still talking about it's not the coach through 5 different versions of a team.

Yeah the Timberwolves were contenders with KAT at PF, which is his true position. But you kept ignoring that because you somehow believe he should be at the 5 which never worked under any coach he's played under and it's still the same story as I predicted it to be.

When are you going to address us going 0-10?

I asked when you were going to address the 5 year record, the coach sucks, that's why we're 0-10 vs contenders. When you gonna talk about why 5 different iterations of Knicks rosters cannot beat .500 or better teams. A 10 game sample size is a lot smaller than 226 games.


We are 94-132 in 5 years vs .500 or better teams, you blame the players every single year, and every single year the Knicks change in some ways, we don't even have 1 starter left from the team 5 years ago and somehow we finished 15-23 when they finished 15-21. The only thing constant is the guy you refuse to blame The team you miss was 21-28 vs .500 or better squads last year.

I will address the 5 year record after you admit you were wrong about KAT working out at the 5 versus being at the 4