OT: Bronx Bernie Sanders rally Rosario Dawson, Residente on 3/31

[machu46]

I don't see why all primaries shouldn't be "open."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show#Operation_Chaos

In late February 2008, Limbaugh announced "Operation Chaos," a political call to action with the initial plan to have voters of the Republican Party temporarily cross over to vote in the Democratic primary and vote for Hillary Clinton, who at the time was in the midst of losing eleven straight primary contests to Barack Obama. Limbaugh has also cited the open primary process in the early primary states of New Hampshire and South Carolina, which allowed independent voters to cross over into the Republican primaries to choose John McCain over more conservative candidates (such as Fred Thompson), as an inspiration.

At the point in which Limbaugh announced his gambit, Obama had seemed on the verge of clinching the Democratic nomination.[111] However, Clinton subsequently won the Ohio primary and the Texas primary (while losing the Texas caucus and the overall delegate split) with large pluralities from rural counties; thus reemerging as a competitive opponent in the race.[112]

Why should Democrats allow outsiders to choose who they're selecting as their presidential candidate? I'm not getting what the controversy is here. Does no one remember Operation Chaos in 08 when a ton of Republicans messed up the Democratic primaries?

I agree. I don't like open primaries. But if you're going to have a closed primary then make it easier for people to switch. If new voters can register for the primary as late as 25 days before the primary to be elidgable to vote why should people who are already registered need to decide to switch parties 6 months before hand.

I'm guessing they made it 6 months because they only want passionate voters in. Given a month a ton of independents could've switched and voted for the Democratic candidate. These are parties they want who best represents them winning not who best represents independents.

If I recall correctly, the date to switch was always in October but the primary was pushed back 2 months, so it was originally 4 months before the primary. I could be wrong though.

Regarding caucus vs open vs closed, I'd take closed primaries every time. I at least understand the argument for open though. Caucuses are just terrible.


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[Knickfan1982]

It is that simple. Chance shouldn't matter - if you like a candidate, support the candidate. They could have changed their affiliation, but chose not to.

No it isn't that simple. Why change your party affliation IN OCTOBER if you don't know enough about the candidate to vote for him or if you don't have confidence he'll still be around in April. Its one thing to like Bernie. The first primary wasn't until February of 2016. Bernie had proven to be the only other Democratic candidate to have any traction in polls but he didn't become a real threat until those polls translated into performance in primaries. The voter would have needed to make their decision roughly 4 months before that in order to have voted for Bernie in NY. Why force these people to make their decisions so early when new voters can register as late as 25 days out to be able to vote? So it isn't as if its a question of logistics or feasibility. Its just some petty B.S rule that makes no sense.

They had months to read up on the candidates. If they tend to be democrat, should have changed to democrat. If they didn't like either candidate after changing, or if Bernie dropped, it'd be like they were an independent unable to vote in any primary in NY. So back to square one.

They could have changed it but chose not to. It's on them and it's their fault.

I agree with you that most so called independents mainly vote for one party or another but call themselves independent for one reason or another. But whether they do so because they really hate the two major parties or because it makes them feel superior they don't make that decision lightly. Nor would they choose to change that party affiliation lightly. So stop being obtuse about this.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I simply don't understand their gripe / don't understand what's so difficult about changing party affiliation in advance. So what if you can register for a party by March 25? That's not relevant. People who registered with a party should know the rules / how and when you need to change it by in order to vote in a state. They clearly feel very annoyed about not being able to vote - should have seen this coming. Again, it's on them. Anyways, I've said my piece.

Now that the democratic primary is all by settled, I'm wondering when Bernie will drop out. Longer he stays in, worse he can make it for Hillary. Also wondering what's going to happen with the republican nomination - contested nomination incoming...?

[machu46]

I simply don't understand their gripe / don't understand what's so difficult about changing party affiliation in advance. So what if you can register for a party by March 25? That's not relevant. People who registered with a party should know the rules / how and when you need to change it by in order to vote in a state. They clearly feel very annoyed about not being able to vote - should have seen this coming. Again, it's on them. Anyways, I've said my piece.

Now that the democratic primary is all by settled, I'm wondering when Bernie will drop out. Longer he stays in, worse he can make it for Hillary. Also wondering what's going to happen with the republican nomination - contested nomination incoming...?

I'm honestly starting to think Bernie will stay in until after California even though he has no chance at this point.

Also starting to think Trump will get to 1237.


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[E-Balla]

I simply don't understand their gripe / don't understand what's so difficult about changing party affiliation in advance. So what if you can register for a party by March 25? That's not relevant. People who registered with a party should know the rules / how and when you need to change it by in order to vote in a state. They clearly feel very annoyed about not being able to vote - should have seen this coming. Again, it's on them. Anyways, I've said my piece.

Now that the democratic primary is all by settled, I'm wondering when Bernie will drop out. Longer he stays in, worse he can make it for Hillary. Also wondering what's going to happen with the republican nomination - contested nomination incoming...?

I'm honestly starting to think Bernie will stay in until after California even though he has no chance at this point.

Also starting to think Trump will get to 1237.


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Bernie's staying until the DNC. If he was going to drop out he would've done it a long time ago. And I hope you're right about Trump because Kasich isn't catching Trump and Cruz and Cruz is a disaster.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I simply don't understand their gripe / don't understand what's so difficult about changing party affiliation in advance. So what if you can register for a party by March 25? That's not relevant. People who registered with a party should know the rules / how and when you need to change it by in order to vote in a state. They clearly feel very annoyed about not being able to vote - should have seen this coming. Again, it's on them. Anyways, I've said my piece.

Now that the democratic primary is all by settled, I'm wondering when Bernie will drop out. Longer he stays in, worse he can make it for Hillary. Also wondering what's going to happen with the republican nomination - contested nomination incoming...?

I'm honestly starting to think Bernie will stay in until after California even though he has no chance at this point.

Also starting to think Trump will get to 1237.


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I think he'll stay in as well. I read something a few weeks ago saying he owes it to his supporters to see it until he's officially out.

I simply don't understand their gripe / don't understand what's so difficult about changing party affiliation in advance. So what if you can register for a party by March 25? That's not relevant. People who registered with a party should know the rules / how and when you need to change it by in order to vote in a state. They clearly feel very annoyed about not being able to vote - should have seen this coming. Again, it's on them. Anyways, I've said my piece.

Now that the democratic primary is all by settled, I'm wondering when Bernie will drop out. Longer he stays in, worse he can make it for Hillary. Also wondering what's going to happen with the republican nomination - contested nomination incoming...?

I'm honestly starting to think Bernie will stay in until after California even though he has no chance at this point.

Also starting to think Trump will get to 1237.


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Bernie's staying until the DNC. If he was going to drop out he would've done it a long time ago. And I hope you're right about Trump because Kasich isn't catching Trump and Cruz and Cruz is a disaster.

Cruz and Trump are terrible. I don't mind Kasich nearly as much as the others and think he's the best candidate, but unfortunately he has no chance. :/

[Knickfan1982]

I simply don't understand their gripe / don't understand what's so difficult about changing party affiliation in advance. So what if you can register for a party by March 25? That's not relevant. People who registered with a party should know the rules / how and when you need to change it by in order to vote in a state. They clearly feel very annoyed about not being able to vote - should have seen this coming. Again, it's on them. Anyways, I've said my piece.

Now that the democratic primary is all by settled, I'm wondering when Bernie will drop out. Longer he stays in, worse he can make it for Hillary. Also wondering what's going to happen with the republican nomination - contested nomination incoming...?

I know you don't understand. That's the problem. But it isn't hard to understand and that's my frustration. You have to care enough about a candidate AND think he has a legitimate shot at winning if you're going to make the effort to change your party affiliation to vote for that candidate in the primary. NY's deadline to do so is much earlier than almost any other state. If someone was a Bernie fanatic from the very beginning and never tried to change their status until April 18th then yes. I get that they shouldn't complain about the rules. But if you didn't decide to vote for Bernie until November 1st (more than 5 months before the primary) then you're screwed. What exactly is so difficult to understand about that?

[NBA Fan 1234]

They had months to do research and change their affiliation. They didn't. It's their loss. Bernie announced his candidacy in the middle of last year - it wasn't a last minute thing.

I'm done here on this topic about the Bernie fanatics inability to change their affiliation.

[Knickfan1982]

They had months to do research and change their affiliation. They didn't. It's their loss. Bernie announced his candidacy in the middle of last year - it wasn't a last minute thing.

I'm done here on this topic about the Bernie fanatics inability to change their affiliation.

They had months to do their research???? Who cares if Bernie launched his campaign in April 2015. The actual primary in NY wasn't for another year. The general election isn't for 8 more months after that point. That's a long time. You're expecting the general public to follow politics closer than most people follow sports. Get real here buddy.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Whatever, bud. Not sure why you keep quoting me when I'm not going to change my opinion on this - the independent voters messed up IMO by not changing their affiliation.

[Knickfan1982]

Whatever, bud. Not sure why you keep quoting me when I'm not going to change my opinion on this - the independent voters messed up IMO by not changing their affiliation.

I keep quoting you because its you I am speaking to. I won't quote someone else if I am speaking to you. Anyway, no one is disputing that they messed up by not changing their affiliation earlier. But its wrong to criticize them for not making a decision on whom they wanted to support in April of 2016 all the way back in October 2015. You're slamming all of these people as if they WERE ALL irresponsible. That's just complete bollocks. Some people didn't change their affiliation by October because they hadn't settled on Bernie by October. Some people didn't change their affiliation by October because they weren't sure the enthusiam for Bernie would translate into votes let alone a strong enough showing to make him a threat in NY. Some people didn't change their affiliation by October because they just didn't realize they needed to do so by October. NYs election laws are complicated. You can change your party affiliation without problem up until 25 days BEFORE the General Election. If you were a new voter you could register as a Democrat and vote in the primary as late as 25 days out. But to have voted for Bernie in April you would have had to have changed your party affiliation by October the previous year. That's ridiculous and to cast all these people as irresponsible is just wrong.

[NBA Fan 1234]

And yet I'm not quoting you...even said I'm done talking about the topic with you. IMO, it is their fault. Let it be because I'm not changing that opinion.

[BKlutch]

They had months to do research and change their affiliation. They didn't. It's their loss. Bernie announced his candidacy in the middle of last year - it wasn't a last minute thing.

I'm done here on this topic about the Bernie fanatics inability to change their affiliation.

They had months to do their research???? Who cares if Bernie launched his campaign in April 2015. The actual primary in NY wasn't for another year. The general election isn't for 8 more months after that point. That's a long time. You're expecting the general public to follow politics closer than most people follow sports. Get real here buddy.

When people register to vote as an independent in NY, they know they can't vote in any primary. So to them, it must be more important to avoid adding to the roster of registered Democratic or Republican voters than it is to vote in a primary. I think that if I were a true independent, I'd choose one party or the other on the off chance they'd have a candidate I'd want to vote for.

This system has been in place my whole life. I think my parents explained that this was to prevent voters from the other party switching to my party and trying to vote for the weaker of the candidates just to mess things up. Seemed logical to me. (I could never have imagined my party doing it to the other party haha.)

New Yorkers are free to change the system if they wish, but there would be unfairness in changing the system shortly before a primary. After the November election is a good time to do this if we really want to.

[Knickfan1982]

They had months to do research and change their affiliation. They didn't. It's their loss. Bernie announced his candidacy in the middle of last year - it wasn't a last minute thing.

I'm done here on this topic about the Bernie fanatics inability to change their affiliation.

They had months to do their research???? Who cares if Bernie launched his campaign in April 2015. The actual primary in NY wasn't for another year. The general election isn't for 8 more months after that point. That's a long time. You're expecting the general public to follow politics closer than most people follow sports. Get real here buddy.

When people register to vote as an independent in NY, they know they can't vote in any primary. So to them, it must be more important to avoid adding to the roster of registered Democratic or Republican voters than it is to vote in a primary. I think that if I were a true independent, I'd choose one party or the other on the off chance they'd have a candidate I'd want to vote for.

This system has been in place my whole life. I think my parents explained that this was to prevent voters from the other party switching to my party and trying to vote for the weaker of the candidates just to mess things up. Seemed logical to me. (I could never have imagined my party doing it to the other party haha.)

New Yorkers are free to change the system if they wish, but there would be unfairness in changing the system shortly before a primary. After the November election is a good time to do this if we really want to.

I think the problems are two fold A)The deadline to change party affliliation before the primary was way too early and B) that the rules weren't clear. But I agree though. I think people should register for a party because there are only 2 real parties anyway and independents usually vote for one party over another.

[BKlutch]

They had months to do their research???? Who cares if Bernie launched his campaign in April 2015. The actual primary in NY wasn't for another year. The general election isn't for 8 more months after that point. That's a long time. You're expecting the general public to follow politics closer than most people follow sports. Get real here buddy.

When people register to vote as an independent in NY, they know they can't vote in any primary. So to them, it must be more important to avoid adding to the roster of registered Democratic or Republican voters than it is to vote in a primary. I think that if I were a true independent, I'd choose one party or the other on the off chance they'd have a candidate I'd want to vote for.

This system has been in place my whole life. I think my parents explained that this was to prevent voters from the other party switching to my party and trying to vote for the weaker of the candidates just to mess things up. Seemed logical to me. (I could never have imagined my party doing it to the other party haha.)

New Yorkers are free to change the system if they wish, but there would be unfairness in changing the system shortly before a primary. After the November election is a good time to do this if we really want to.

I think the problems are two fold A)The deadline to change party affliliation before the primary was way too early and B) that the rules weren't clear. But I agree though. I think people should register for a party because there are only 2 real parties anyway and independents usually vote for one party over another.

I agree that the rules should be clear. They should be printed double size in 8 different languages and sent to all registered voters long before the deadline. There should never be any chicanery or trickery. The card should say "You can only vote in the primary for candidates of the party for which you're registered. People registered as independent cannot vote in either the Republican or Democratic primaries. If you want to change party affiliation, do it before XX date."

On the other hand, I am not agreeable to opening up the primaries to all parties on the day of the election, also to prevent chicanery. Democracy is a great idea, but it's sometimes hard to put into practice. That doesn't mean it's unfair or biased against an individual. New Yorkers have chosen to keep it this way. If others disagree, they are free to try to get this changed.

[machu46]

They had months to do research and change their affiliation. They didn't. It's their loss. Bernie announced his candidacy in the middle of last year - it wasn't a last minute thing.

I'm done here on this topic about the Bernie fanatics inability to change their affiliation.

They had months to do their research???? Who cares if Bernie launched his campaign in April 2015. The actual primary in NY wasn't for another year. The general election isn't for 8 more months after that point. That's a long time. You're expecting the general public to follow politics closer than most people follow sports. Get real here buddy.

When people register to vote as an independent in NY, they know they can't vote in any primary. So to them, it must be more important to avoid adding to the roster of registered Democratic or Republican voters than it is to vote in a primary. I think that if I were a true independent, I'd choose one party or the other on the off chance they'd have a candidate I'd want to vote for.

This system has been in place my whole life. I think my parents explained that this was to prevent voters from the other party switching to my party and trying to vote for the weaker of the candidates just to mess things up. Seemed logical to me. (I could never have imagined my party doing it to the other party haha.)

New Yorkers are free to change the system if they wish, but there would be unfairness in changing the system shortly before a primary. After the November election is a good time to do this if we really want to.

This is basically what I did. I definitely lean Democrat on social issues, but I'm open to either side's ideas for other topics, so I'd prefer to be an independent. But knowing the rules in NY, I joined the Democrat Party because I'd tend to lean that way anyways and I want to have a voice in the primaries.

[BKlutch]

They had months to do their research???? Who cares if Bernie launched his campaign in April 2015. The actual primary in NY wasn't for another year. The general election isn't for 8 more months after that point. That's a long time. You're expecting the general public to follow politics closer than most people follow sports. Get real here buddy.

When people register to vote as an independent in NY, they know they can't vote in any primary. So to them, it must be more important to avoid adding to the roster of registered Democratic or Republican voters than it is to vote in a primary. I think that if I were a true independent, I'd choose one party or the other on the off chance they'd have a candidate I'd want to vote for.

This system has been in place my whole life. I think my parents explained that this was to prevent voters from the other party switching to my party and trying to vote for the weaker of the candidates just to mess things up. Seemed logical to me. (I could never have imagined my party doing it to the other party haha.)

New Yorkers are free to change the system if they wish, but there would be unfairness in changing the system shortly before a primary. After the November election is a good time to do this if we really want to.

This is basically what I did. I definitely lean Democrat on social issues, but I'm open to either side's ideas for other topics, so I'd prefer to be an independent. But knowing the rules in NY, I joined the Democrat Party because I'd tend to lean that way anyways and I want to have a voice in the primaries.

Seems smart to me. If you find a whole lot of Republicans you like in the future, you could switch. But this way, you get to vote.

[ToastinKP]

When people register to vote as an independent in NY, they know they can't vote in any primary. So to them, it must be more important to avoid adding to the roster of registered Democratic or Republican voters than it is to vote in a primary. I think that if I were a true independent, I'd choose one party or the other on the off chance they'd have a candidate I'd want to vote for.

This system has been in place my whole life. I think my parents explained that this was to prevent voters from the other party switching to my party and trying to vote for the weaker of the candidates just to mess things up. Seemed logical to me. (I could never have imagined my party doing it to the other party haha.)

New Yorkers are free to change the system if they wish, but there would be unfairness in changing the system shortly before a primary. After the November election is a good time to do this if we really want to.

I think the problems are two fold A)The deadline to change party affliliation before the primary was way too early and B) that the rules weren't clear. But I agree though. I think people should register for a party because there are only 2 real parties anyway and independents usually vote for one party over another.

I agree that the rules should be clear. They should be printed double size in 8 different languages and sent to all registered voters long before the deadline. There should never be any chicanery or trickery. The card should say "You can only vote in the primary for candidates of the party for which you're registered. People registered as independent cannot vote in either the Republican or Democratic primaries. If you want to change party affiliation, do it before XX date."

On the other hand, I am not agreeable to opening up the primaries to all parties on the day of the election, also to prevent chicanery. Democracy is a great idea, but it's sometimes hard to put into practice. That doesn't mean it's unfair or biased against an individual. New Yorkers have chosen to keep it this way. If others disagree, they are free to try to get this changed.

People don't even head out to vote for a candidate they truly want to win and you think the Republicans will be able to get enough outsiders to change an outcome in a primary? Odds are against such a thing happening in the real world. Just like not allowing a third party candidate to compete and super delegates it is all about maintaining control...............

[ToastinKP]

They had months to do research and change their affiliation. They didn't. It's their loss. Bernie announced his candidacy in the middle of last year - it wasn't a last minute thing.

I'm done here on this topic about the Bernie fanatics inability to change their affiliation.

They had months to do their research???? Who cares if Bernie launched his campaign in April 2015. The actual primary in NY wasn't for another year. The general election isn't for 8 more months after that point. That's a long time. You're expecting the general public to follow politics closer than most people follow sports. Get real here buddy.

Tell you the truth what an obscure Democratic Socialist from little old Vermont has been able to do in such little time is truly amazing. Clinton supporters, the DNC and the Democratic Third Way Party should be very worried about the rise of a progressive movement either within the Democratic party or an another party. History repeats itself and the masses are known to rise from time to time. It takes time but it will happen once again.

[Fury]

And yet I'm not quoting you...even said I'm done talking about the topic with you. IMO, it is their fault. Let it be because I'm not changing that opinion.

Let's say you are independent and have a third party candidate in mind and Martin o malley as your second choice. O malley dropped out long after that deadline, so what happens? You're forced to vote for someone else? Heck, you can have o malley in mind period and he drops out by the time we get here. What if kasich is your second choice? You're screwed out of voting kasich. There's no reason why it needs to be like this