2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

[finestrg]

I understand he might be a little bit of a reach to some if we stay around 6 -- I just hope the Knicks do their homework on/really take a good long look at Daniel Oturu from Minnesota. There so much to like with him. He reminds me of a Myles Turner/Andre Drummond hybrid with his ability to play inside and out at 6'10" 240. Over 20 and 11 with 2.5 blocks this season.. You can tell already he's gonna hit the ground running in the NBA and give you production right away, yet you can also tell he's only scratching the surface of what he could eventually be. Another guy he reminds me of with the effective inside/outside game is Al Horford, a guy who's had a long, productive career in the NBA. I honestly think Oturu could be even better than Horford as Horford never showed a 3-pt stroke in college (he developed that after turning pro, about 6 years into the NBA), whereas Oturu was showing that this year in college, plus I think Oturu projects to be a even better rim protector.

I know some might say, well we already have Mitch. Ok, I like Mitch too, doesn't mean we couldn't us another talented big man in the middle to go along with Mitch. As good as Mitch is and i love him, this kid Oturu is much more well-rounded by comparsion, it's not even close. But he would be an excellent complement to Mitch -- we could use both. I just want the Knicks to do all the homework they can possibly do on this guy to see if he makes any sense at 6, esp. if guys like Wiseman and Toppin are gone by the time we pick. If for some reason he's still there at 25, he'd be an automatic for me. I might even try to package 25 and another asset(s) to slide up a few spots to make sure I get a crack at drafting him. He's all over the place depending on what mock you look at -- nbadraft.net has him going 8, while some drafts don't even have him getting drafted. I've watched all the video there is on this kid and to me, I tend to lean toward nbadraft.net's opinion of him.

Honest thoughts on Daniel Oturu guys. What's his ceiling in your opinion?

[malik959]

How is Haliburton mocked as Jose Calderon and he plays defense? I get the offensive comparison in that he is a Game manager with a outside shot, but they need to explain that.

They said he's basically Calderon with defense, I agree.

[Milk]

I understand he might be a little bit of a reach to some if we stay around 6 -- I just hope the Knicks do their homework on/really take a good long look at Daniel Oturu from Minnesota. There so much to like with him. He reminds me of a Myles Turner/Andre Drummond hybrid with his ability to play inside and out at 6'10" 240. Over 20 and 11 with 2.5 blocks this season.. You can tell already he's gonna hit the ground running in the NBA and give you production right away, yet you can also tell he's only scratching the surface of what he could eventually be. Another guy he reminds me of with the effective inside/outside game is Al Horford, a guy who's had a long, productive career in the NBA. I honestly think Oturu could be even better than Horford as Horford never showed a 3-pt stroke in college (he developed that after turning pro, about 6 years into the NBA), whereas Oturu was showing that this year in college, plus I think Oturu projects to be a even better rim protector.

I know some might say, well we already have Mitch. Ok, I like Mitch too, doesn't mean we couldn't us another talented big man in the middle to go along with Mitch. As good as Mitch is and i love him, this kid Oturu is much more well-rounded by comparsion, it's not even close. But he would be an excellent complement to Mitch -- we could use both. I just want the Knicks to do all the homework they can possibly do on this guy to see if he makes any sense at 6, esp. if guys like Wiseman and Toppin are gone by the time we pick. If for some reason he's still there at 25, he'd be an automatic for me. I might even try to package 25 and another asset(s) to slide up a few spots to make sure I get a crack at drafting him. He's all over the place depending on what mock you look at -- nbadraft.net has him going 8, while some drafts don't even have him getting drafted. I've watched all the video there is on this kid and to me, I tend to lean toward nbadraft.net's opinion of him.

Honest thoughts on Daniel Oturu guys. What's his ceiling in your opinion?

Are you Daniel Oturu? All I’ve seen you post on this thread is about him

But isn’t the 6th pick too high for him?
He’s mocked in the early 2nd round (36th pick) on DraftExpress and Jonathan Wasserman has him in the 2nd round.
Other sites I’ve seen have him around the very late first round at best.

We can easily get him with the Clippers pick if Leon and co really wanted him.

[RHODEY]

Hayes is an interesting pick that seems to be gaining steam. Hayes scares me because his shot is weird and I don't foresee him as a knock down shooter. With that said, he checks the other boxes. Another concern is the that NY doesn't have a lot of patience and the media aren't kind. Kid seems to have tons of potential

my biggest concern about Hayes is he is a left handed guard who likes to drive to the rim. That’s more or less the way RJ plays. If he was right handed he would be perfect.......

So now we have RJ and Mitch as 1a, players, Frank as a good roleplayer, and Randle who is talented but not a roster fit. You should emphasize Best player available or focus on long term viability.

Left Smefty we need to go out and grab this kid.

Seriously we do..to me he's got the highest ceiling, best overall guard in this draft.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[malik959]

Exactly. People are getting carried away with the shooting craze and focusing way too much on apparently just Ball's shooting. Using shooting to mask what basically is just a dislike for Ball's personality (or family or flash or whatever). Shooting is most definitely not a premium for most of the top prospects with high upside that the Knicks should be focused on.

Believe me I understand that, but that was not my only point. Melo can't guard a rock if you put it on a table with his hands cuffed around it. Kidd, Foxx, Mitchell, SGA... don't have to rely on anyone else to back them up. Kidd was a first team defender in the league. LaMelo is going to be bullied to death on an NBA court and the ONLY thing he has going for him is his handle and his passing.The thing about Melo is he's been in birds eye view sense he was in 9th grade and the things that I have yet to see any changes in are his defense (no effort other than hitting the passing lane), shot selection, and toughness (seen way too many times when players got him off his game by getting in his head). In high school Melo was a cherry picker, while his teammates were down the court playing 4 on 5 Melo would chill at half court waiting for a rebound and a long pass down court, I personally can't stand players like that. When it come to top picks in a draft you should NEVER be so flawed on one side of the court while still being highly flawed on the other. That's why players like Knox fall to 8th in a draft. LaMelo is the same type of player.

So what you're saying is that just about every scout and talent evaluator is wrong? You dont just play on half the court and be considered that. I get that you dont like what he represents as a person. But you dont need to be likable to do well in the NBA. Nor can you do what hes done by just playing 50% of the time. To say that hes Knox is just a tad bit nuts IMO. Nothing about him screams Knox.

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When I said Knox it was in reference to his weak defense, poor shooting, and the time it'll take to fix it while keeping Knick fans happy. When players are that flawed they're not usually up in the top three. And yes scouts have been wrong on soooooooo many occasions that's why players like Mitchell Robinson end up in the second rd and why players like Darko Milicic , Adam Morrison, Sam Bowie, Anthony Bennett, Nerlens Noel, Kwame Brown, LaRue Martin, Olowokandi, Greg Oden, Hasheem Thabeet, Marvin Williams, and many more end up becoming bust. Now I'm not saying that LaMelo has bust written all over him because I don't see bust with the way he can run an offense (which I believe is great0, but his flaws out weigh his positives for where he's expected to be selected. He's over hyped and I'm sorry, but i see better talent in this draft.

[malik959]

Watch on YouTube

[malik959]

Believe me I understand that, but that was not my only point. Melo can't guard a rock if you put it on a table with his hands cuffed around it. Kidd, Foxx, Mitchell, SGA... don't have to rely on anyone else to back them up. Kidd was a first team defender in the league. LaMelo is going to be bullied to death on an NBA court and the ONLY thing he has going for him is his handle and his passing.The thing about Melo is he's been in birds eye view sense he was in 9th grade and the things that I have yet to see any changes in are his defense (no effort other than hitting the passing lane), shot selection, and toughness (seen way too many times when players got him off his game by getting in his head). In high school Melo was a cherry picker, while his teammates were down the court playing 4 on 5 Melo would chill at half court waiting for a rebound and a long pass down court, I personally can't stand players like that. When it come to top picks in a draft you should NEVER be so flawed on one side of the court while still being highly flawed on the other. That's why players like Knox fall to 8th in a draft. LaMelo is the same type of player.

So what you're saying is that just about every scout and talent evaluator is wrong? You dont just play on half the court and be considered that. I get that you dont like what he represents as a person. But you dont need to be likable to do well in the NBA. Nor can you do what hes done by just playing 50% of the time. To say that hes Knox is just a tad bit nuts IMO. Nothing about him screams Knox.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

When I said Knox it was in reference to his weak defense, poor shooting, and the time it'll take to fix it while keeping Knick fans happy. When players are that flawed they're not usually up in the top three. And yes scouts have been wrong on soooooooo many occasions that's why players like Mitchell Robinson end up in the second rd and why players like Darko Milicic , Adam Morrison, Sam Bowie, Anthony Bennett, Nerlens Noel, Kwame Brown, LaRue Martin, Olowokandi, Greg Oden, Hasheem Thabeet, Marvin Williams, and many more end up becoming bust. Now I'm not saying that LaMelo has bust written all over him because I don't see bust with the way he can run an offense (which I believe is great0, but his flaws out weigh his positives for where he's expected to be selected. He's over hyped and I'm sorry, but i see better talent in this draft.

Watch on YouTube

[finestrg]

I understand he might be a little bit of a reach to some if we stay around 6 -- I just hope the Knicks do their homework on/really take a good long look at Daniel Oturu from Minnesota. There so much to like with him. He reminds me of a Myles Turner/Andre Drummond hybrid with his ability to play inside and out at 6'10" 240. Over 20 and 11 with 2.5 blocks this season.. You can tell already he's gonna hit the ground running in the NBA and give you production right away, yet you can also tell he's only scratching the surface of what he could eventually be. Another guy he reminds me of with the effective inside/outside game is Al Horford, a guy who's had a long, productive career in the NBA. I honestly think Oturu could be even better than Horford as Horford never showed a 3-pt stroke in college (he developed that after turning pro, about 6 years into the NBA), whereas Oturu was showing that this year in college, plus I think Oturu projects to be a even better rim protector.

I know some might say, well we already have Mitch. Ok, I like Mitch too, doesn't mean we couldn't us another talented big man in the middle to go along with Mitch. As good as Mitch is and i love him, this kid Oturu is much more well-rounded by comparsion, it's not even close. But he would be an excellent complement to Mitch -- we could use both. I just want the Knicks to do all the homework they can possibly do on this guy to see if he makes any sense at 6, esp. if guys like Wiseman and Toppin are gone by the time we pick. If for some reason he's still there at 25, he'd be an automatic for me. I might even try to package 25 and another asset(s) to slide up a few spots to make sure I get a crack at drafting him. He's all over the place depending on what mock you look at -- nbadraft.net has him going 8, while some drafts don't even have him getting drafted. I've watched all the video there is on this kid and to me, I tend to lean toward nbadraft.net's opinion of him.

Honest thoughts on Daniel Oturu guys. What's his ceiling in your opinion?

Are you Daniel Oturu? All I’ve seen you post on this thread is about him

But isn’t the 6th pick too high for him?
He’s mocked in the early 2nd round (36th pick) on DraftExpress and Jonathan Wasserman has him in the 2nd round.
Other sites I’ve seen have him around the very late first round at best.

We can easily get him with the Clippers pick if Leon and co really wanted him.

Well, actually I've mentioned the following on the draft threads: That I'd consider Oturu at 6, Saddiq Bey at 25 (or to move up slightly from 25 to get him, however we might be able to do that) and Devon Dotson in the mid-30s with that pick (or same deal--maybe we package 35 + an asset to move up to get him a little earlier too). Even if most consider Oturu a reach at 6, and I get that, I'd dtill love that haul. IMHO, if we grabbed those 3, we'd be getting 3 very good building blocks for the future: a 6'10" 240 lb. legit C with long arms that would impact the game on both ends for us right away (again, what I see is an even better version of Al Horford here), a much better reserve SF in Bey to back up Barrett instead of Knox (and yeah, to make room for Daymean Dotson and Trier to return and man the 2 spot, I'd slide Barrett over to 3--I think he'd be fine there. Might even be better--I don't see his offense suffering at all playing the 3, and his defense might actually improve some, guarding not-as-quick 3s compared to quicker 2s on a nightly basis), and we'd get a very nice PG prospect that takes it hard to the rim with lightning quickness and plays defense too. To me, that's not a bad draft at all.

Wiseman and Toppin might be the only "can't-misses," but even they have questions (is anyone here really convinced beyond the shadow of doubt that Wiseman will be the next David Robinson and not the next DeAndre Jordan? I'm not). Then I have questions on the rest: What's Tyrese Hailiburton ceiling? Spencer Dinwiddie? Ok, I'd take that, I like Dinwiddie -- don't really like him trashing my Knicks all the time, but I really like him as a player. Is he Malcolm Brogdan? A solid piece, no doubt, but hardly a game changer, right? Esp. this year's version where his shooting really slipped (if we gave Frank Brogdan's mins. and touches, could he come close to doing what Brogdan did this year? I don't know, maybe... Or Shaun Livingston--another rotation piece but nowhere near the game changer you'd want at 6. Edwards I dunno -- the low shooting %s scare me (could you see this guy becoming another low %/high volume scorer in the NBA? It's possible, no? I definitely don't see the next Michael Jordan here, not even the next Mitch Richmond (who was one hell of an underrated player back in his day). Just don't see Edwards as the clear cut #1 pick in this or any draft. And LaMelo Ball--talk about a low %/high volume player, right? So that's a flag, and he did it in Australia. How good was the competition in that league? And then who the hell wants to deal with his old man and all that drama? Another big flag. Cole Anthony? Looks pretty good, he's got some things you like but is he a game-changer at 6? Could we get something very similar with Devon Dotson 30 slots later in this draft? I dunno, maybe. Daniel Oturu, meanwhile, is one guy I've looked at carefully and I don't walk away with a lot of glaring questions. Just MHO. I think not only would he be a safe pick (as in low-bust potential), but a damn good one too. We just can't afford a misfire with that pick, even if we had to reach a little to grab someone we'd feel confident would contribute right away. That's what I see with Oturu. if I were a betting man right now, I'd bet on Oturu becoming a 20/10/2 block 5-man in the NBA for the right team that sees his potential and develops it. Whoever takes Oturu in this draft will be getting a real solid player IMO.

[HarthorneWingo]

How is Haliburton mocked as Jose Calderon and he plays defense? I get the offensive comparison in that he is a Game manager with a outside shot, but they need to explain that.

They said he's basically Calderon with defense, I agree.

The range on Haliburton’s 3 far exceeds anything Calderon has ever shot. Not even close. Plus Haliburton’s length make them different.

[Milk]

I understand he might be a little bit of a reach to some if we stay around 6 -- I just hope the Knicks do their homework on/really take a good long look at Daniel Oturu from Minnesota. There so much to like with him. He reminds me of a Myles Turner/Andre Drummond hybrid with his ability to play inside and out at 6'10" 240. Over 20 and 11 with 2.5 blocks this season.. You can tell already he's gonna hit the ground running in the NBA and give you production right away, yet you can also tell he's only scratching the surface of what he could eventually be. Another guy he reminds me of with the effective inside/outside game is Al Horford, a guy who's had a long, productive career in the NBA. I honestly think Oturu could be even better than Horford as Horford never showed a 3-pt stroke in college (he developed that after turning pro, about 6 years into the NBA), whereas Oturu was showing that this year in college, plus I think Oturu projects to be a even better rim protector.

I know some might say, well we already have Mitch. Ok, I like Mitch too, doesn't mean we couldn't us another talented big man in the middle to go along with Mitch. As good as Mitch is and i love him, this kid Oturu is much more well-rounded by comparsion, it's not even close. But he would be an excellent complement to Mitch -- we could use both. I just want the Knicks to do all the homework they can possibly do on this guy to see if he makes any sense at 6, esp. if guys like Wiseman and Toppin are gone by the time we pick. If for some reason he's still there at 25, he'd be an automatic for me. I might even try to package 25 and another asset(s) to slide up a few spots to make sure I get a crack at drafting him. He's all over the place depending on what mock you look at -- nbadraft.net has him going 8, while some drafts don't even have him getting drafted. I've watched all the video there is on this kid and to me, I tend to lean toward nbadraft.net's opinion of him.

Honest thoughts on Daniel Oturu guys. What's his ceiling in your opinion?

Are you Daniel Oturu? All I’ve seen you post on this thread is about him

But isn’t the 6th pick too high for him?
He’s mocked in the early 2nd round (36th pick) on DraftExpress and Jonathan Wasserman has him in the 2nd round.
Other sites I’ve seen have him around the very late first round at best.

We can easily get him with the Clippers pick if Leon and co really wanted him.

Well, actually I've mentioned the following on the draft threads: That I'd consider Oturu at 6, Saddiq Bey at 25 (or to move up slightly from 25 to get him, however we might be able to do that) and Devon Dotson in the mid-30s with that pick (or same deal--maybe we package 35 + an asset to move up to get him a little earlier too). Even if most consider Oturu a reach at 6, and I get that, I'd dtill love that haul. IMHO, if we grabbed those 3, we'd be getting 3 very good building blocks for the future: a 6'10" 240 lb. legit C with long arms that would impact the game on both ends for us right away (again, what I see is an even better version of Al Horford here), a much better reserve SF in Bey to back up Barrett instead of Knox (and yeah, to make room for Daymean Dotson and Trier to return and man the 2 spot, I'd slide Barrett over to 3--I think he'd be fine there. Might even be better--I don't see his offense suffering at all playing the 3, and his defense might actually improve some, guarding not-as-quick 3s compared to quicker 2s on a nightly basis), and we'd get a very nice PG prospect that takes it hard to the rim with lightning quickness and plays defense too. To me, that's not a bad draft at all.

Wiseman and Toppin might be the only "can't-misses," but even they have questions (is anyone here really convinced beyond the shadow of doubt that Wiseman will be the next David Robinson and not the next DeAndre Jordan? I'm not). Then I have questions on the rest: What's Tyrese Hailiburton ceiling? Spencer Dinwiddie? Ok, I'd take that, I like Dinwiddie -- don't really like him trashing my Knicks all the time, but I really like him as a player. Is he Malcolm Brogdan? A solid piece, no doubt, but hardly a game changer, right? Esp. this year's version where his shooting really slipped (if we gave Frank Brogdan's mins. and touches, could he come close to doing what Brogdan did this year? I don't know, maybe... Or Shaun Livingston--another rotation piece but nowhere near the game changer you'd want at 6. Edwards I dunno -- the low shooting %s scare me (could you see this guy becoming another low %/high volume scorer in the NBA? It's possible, no? I definitely don't see the next Michael Jordan here, not even the next Mitch Richmond (who was one hell of an underrated player back in his day). Just don't see Edwards as the clear cut #1 pick in this or any draft. And LaMelo Ball--talk about a low %/high volume player, right? So that's a flag, and he did it in Australia. How good was the competition in that league? And then who the hell wants to deal with his old man and all that drama? Another big flag. Cole Anthony? Looks pretty good, he's got some things you like but is he a game-changer at 6? Could we get something very similar with Devon Dotson 30 slots later in this draft? I dunno, maybe. Daniel Oturu, meanwhile, is one guy I've looked at carefully and I don't walk away with a lot of glaring questions. Just MHO. I think not only would he be a safe pick (as in low-bust potential), but a damn good one too. We just can't afford a misfire with that pick, even if we had to reach a little to grab someone we'd feel confident would contribute right away. That's what I see with Oturu. if I were a betting man right now, I'd bet on Oturu becoming a 20/10/2 block 5-man in the NBA for the right team that sees his potential and develops it. Whoever takes Oturu in this draft will be getting a real solid player IMO.

“ We just can't afford a misfire with that pick, even if we had to reach a little to grab someone we'd feel confident would contribute right away.”

I’m sorry but taking Oturu at 6 is the equivalent of misfiring our lottery pick even if he pans out.
It’s just not an efficient/effective way of using our resources and frankly, a massive reach and waste of a lottery pick.

We can get Oturu with the clippers pick IF Leon Rose really wants him (He’s not going early or mid first round) AND 1 of the following PGs Hayes, Anthony or Haliburton.
Why waste the lottery pick when we can get both him and a lottery PG? Just head scratching
Hayes or Cole Anthony have better upside than Saddiq Bey and you know how much we need a PG.

[RHODEY]

How is Haliburton mocked as Jose Calderon and he plays defense? I get the offensive comparison in that he is a Game manager with a outside shot, but they need to explain that.

They said he's basically Calderon with defense, I agree.

The range on Haliburton’s 3 far exceeds anything Calderon has ever shot. Not even close. Plus Haliburton’s length make them different.

Yep. But a prime Calderon with size and defense is a hell of a player anyway IMO.

[Oscirus]

thoughts on who si has us taking currently?

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/03/31/nba-mock-draft-march-madness-canceled

[Ray Williams]

thoughts on who si has us taking currently?

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/03/31/nba-mock-draft-march-madness-canceled

I think we can do better than drafting someone who can’t dribble or shoot.

[WargamesX]

thoughts on who si has us taking currently?

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/03/31/nba-mock-draft-march-madness-canceled

This is a horrible mock for the knicks..... we got two plus defenders in Frank and Mitch, and there in need of shooting and a PG but they has us taking a SF who can’t do anything well but defend. With both Hayes and Anthony still on the board.

Then with the Clippers pick they have us taking a flyer Backup C because “We can use some youth up front” like we don’t have Mitch on the roster......

I am pretty sure this person doesn’t know squat about the knicks. I am a little worried it had Atlanta taking Haliburton.

[knickstape21]

Watch on YouTube

This guy right here MUST be a target for us with that late first. Unfortunately, I think Philly snags him and he becomes a key impact player for them.

Marcus Smart vibes to his game. Probably not as brute as a defender, but he’s for sure a much better shooter. Ramsey might be one of the best shooters in the draft. I’d look to trade up to get him, even. He’s a badass dude.

[knickstape21]

thoughts on who si has us taking currently?

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/03/31/nba-mock-draft-march-madness-canceled

Love the Okoro pick. BIG time potential if he progresses. No secret Auburn was a better team with him on the floor and they played him heavy minutes.

[mpharris36]

thoughts on who si has us taking currently?

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/03/31/nba-mock-draft-march-madness-canceled

Love the Okoro pick. BIG time potential if he progresses. No secret Auburn was a better team with him on the floor and they played him heavy minutes.

I like him too. I just don't see the knicks passing on Killian Hayes or Cole Anthony for him though.

[knickstape21]

thoughts on who si has us taking currently?

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/03/31/nba-mock-draft-march-madness-canceled

Love the Okoro pick. BIG time potential if he progresses. No secret Auburn was a better team with him on the floor and they played him heavy minutes.

I like him too. I just don't see the knicks passing on Killian Hayes or Cole Anthony for him though.

Agreed. Really hard to picture the Knicks passing on Cole Anthony whether we like it or not. I could see him working out really well and interviewing even better.

[HarthorneWingo]

They said he's basically Calderon with defense, I agree.

The range on Haliburton’s 3 far exceeds anything Calderon has ever shot. Not even close. Plus Haliburton’s length make them different.

Yep. But a prime Calderon with size and defense is a hell of a player anyway IMO.

I know, you’re right. This place has made it so that every time I read Calderon’s name I get a visceral reaction.

[jvsimonetti0514]

thoughts on who si has us taking currently?

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/03/31/nba-mock-draft-march-madness-canceled

I always remember KT **** on Jeremy Woo for some reason.

Okoro is the “he could be Kawhi” guy of this draft. Elite defender that’s amazing at attacking close outs. He’s like 19/23 in the HC doing that. Which is pretty crazy cuz he has no jumper. He’s super talented but I’d be shocked if we passed on Hayes for him.