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PG: Thibs B Gone

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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#281 » by knicks94 » Fri Mar 21, 2025 8:29 pm

GettinitDone wrote:This is also NO schedule loss

The 72 win Bulls team had schedule losses to Nuggets and expansion Raptors team, but in losses the Bulls showed fight, the Nugz and Rapz just had to play a PERFECT game to pull off the Ws

There's NO PERFECT GAME needed for the Hornets to beat us, they hardly even tried and they had a double digit lead in 1st QUARTER

We will be swept in the 1st round by a lower seed at this rate and maybe 1st time in NBA history Vegas would put us the higher seed as the underdogs in the 1st round


god shammgod wrote:for me, i'm not arguing for or against thibs. i'm arguing that no coach can fix the problems this roster has. the constant harping on thibs is a distraction from the real issues.


Like "no coach could fix the Cavs"?? The Cavs fans were discussing whether they should trade Garland, DMitch, or Allen, and rebuild around Mobley... and look where they are

JJ Redick transformed the horrible Lakers even before the Luka trade


What about those who bring up the argument of fans wanting Mike Woodson fired when he was coaching them and the Knicks becoming a worse team right after he was replaced?
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#282 » by TheGreenArrow » Fri Mar 21, 2025 8:29 pm

god shammgod wrote:for me, i'm not arguing for or against thibs. i'm arguing that no coach can fix the problems this roster has. the constant harping on thibs is a distraction from the real issues.


I agree This roster is most likely not a championship roster and is seriously flawed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But This team shouldn’t be getting blown out as badly as they have against the good/great teams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And they definitely shouldn’t be getting blown out back to back to lottery bound tanking teams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is a coaching issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which is a much bigger problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#283 » by TheGreenArrow » Fri Mar 21, 2025 8:33 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#284 » by nedleeds » Fri Mar 21, 2025 8:36 pm

god shammgod wrote:for me, i'm not arguing for or against thibs. i'm arguing that no coach can fix the problems this roster has. the constant harping on thibs is a distraction from the real issues.

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Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#285 » by knicks94 » Fri Mar 21, 2025 8:39 pm

Many people are not getting on Thibs soley for the current problems with this roster, but for the fact that he has proven throughout his entire career that he isn't a championship level coach.
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#286 » by Jalen Bluntson » Fri Mar 21, 2025 8:40 pm

Two all star starters. The other three starters were playing at damn near all star level themselves for different stretches. Everyone in the starting 5 has a 30 burger this year. :lol: We struggled on defense early and we had a lot of injuries to the bench to overcome. We were winning though and the vibes were pretty amazing. Going back to the Chicago game where KAT got hurt and at the ASB the vibes changed. It just doesn't have the same energy they had earlier this season. They seem tired and worn out mentally after losses. Losing Brunson hurts a lot but, like I have said, something wasn't right before the injury.
:beer: RIP mags
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#287 » by nedleeds » Fri Mar 21, 2025 8:41 pm

Capn'O wrote:And they're not moving KAT.

Not unless it's for another CAA dude like Booker. KAT is barely a positive value contract. He's going to be 30, still sucks at what he sucks at and doesn't seem to even pretend to try like Foolius. His $53 going to $61 eliminates a bunch of teams from even trading for him.

What team thinks he's the man to get them there for 1/3 of your cap?
Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#288 » by TheGreenArrow » Fri Mar 21, 2025 8:50 pm

nedleeds wrote:
Capn'O wrote:And they're not moving KAT.

Not unless it's for another CAA dude like Booker. KAT is barely a positive value contract. He's going to be 30, still sucks at what he sucks at and doesn't seem to even pretend to try like Foolius. His $53 going to $61 eliminates a bunch of teams from even trading for him.

What team thinks he's the man to get them there for 1/3 of your cap?


Honest question??……!!!!!!

Kat for Zion who says no???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#289 » by nedleeds » Fri Mar 21, 2025 8:52 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
Capn'O wrote:And they're not moving KAT.

Not unless it's for another CAA dude like Booker. KAT is barely a positive value contract. He's going to be 30, still sucks at what he sucks at and doesn't seem to even pretend to try like Foolius. His $53 going to $61 eliminates a bunch of teams from even trading for him.

What team thinks he's the man to get them there for 1/3 of your cap?


Honest question??……!!!!!!

Kat for Zion who says no???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


CAA says no, Zion fired them. No chance he gets sent here.

https://athlonsports.com/nba/new-orleans-pelicans/reported-reason-zion-williamson-split-agent-pelicans-concerned

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Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#290 » by spree8 » Fri Mar 21, 2025 8:53 pm

god shammgod wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
no. that won't fix everything. and you'd have to replace him with a guy who scores like a 2nd option, can hit the 3 and plays passable defense. you'd still have no bench. you'd need a 2nd play maker, another center and probably a big backup wing.

plus he costs so much that very few teams would be that interested. the wolves just traded him and our offer was the best they could get. he's now a year older, more expensive and has further been exposed for his defensive deficiencies. so trading him for what you need in return would be hard.

has he not been maximized offensively ? he's having one of his best statistical years. what more do you think there is ? he'll be 30 later this year. there's nothing more to unlock.


I'd say no he hasn't been maximized, in the sense that the offense doesn't get him enough easy looks. He has to work so hard to drive through traffic so often. And in many stretches he just doesn't get touches, especially when JB was playing. A different offense could get more out of him.

Agree with the rest of your points


well he's been in other offenses and this is about the best he's ever played. the last time he shot this well from both the field and 3 was 17-18. guess who his coach was that year ? :lol:



The guy always is around 50% FG and 40% 3pt, like every year. Giving Thibs all the credit for two years that are slightly higher is convenient.

You could easily say those two years are slightly higher because he played with Jimmy Butler (who obviously elevates his teammates wherever he goes) and because he returned home to his childhood favorite franchise (and is playing with another All-NBA hometown player in Brunson).

But na, “it’s all thanks to Thibs, only Thibs, I love Thibs!”
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#291 » by god shammgod » Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:25 pm

spree8 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:
I'd say no he hasn't been maximized, in the sense that the offense doesn't get him enough easy looks. He has to work so hard to drive through traffic so often. And in many stretches he just doesn't get touches, especially when JB was playing. A different offense could get more out of him.

Agree with the rest of your points


well he's been in other offenses and this is about the best he's ever played. the last time he shot this well from both the field and 3 was 17-18. guess who his coach was that year ? :lol:



The guy always is around 50% FG and 40% 3pt, like every year.
Giving Thibs all the credit for two years that are slightly higher is convenient.

You could easily say those two years are slightly higher because he played with Jimmy Butler (who obviously elevates his teammates wherever he goes) and because he returned home to his childhood favorite franchise (and is playing with another All-NBA hometown player in Brunson).

But na, “it’s all thanks to Thibs, only Thibs, I love Thibs!”



so no matter who coaches him he's the same. thank you for agreeing with me.
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#292 » by Spree2Houston » Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:27 pm

Jalen Bluntson wrote:Two all star starters. The other three starters were playing at damn near all star level themselves for different stretches. Everyone in the starting 5 has a 30 burger this year. :lol: We struggled on defense early and we had a lot of injuries to the bench to overcome. We were winning though and the vibes were pretty amazing. Going back to the Chicago game where KAT got hurt and at the ASB the vibes changed. It just doesn't have the same energy they had earlier this season. They seem tired and worn out mentally after losses. Losing Brunson hurts a lot but, like I have said, something wasn't right before the injury.


There wasn’t enough film on the team back then. Now there’s tape on these guys. Aside from missing Brunson, this is who we really are
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#293 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:30 pm

We've reached the "coaching doesn't matter" phase of the thread. I also love the circular logic of some of this stuff.

-The bench sucks
Okay so play the rookies
-No, they suck
Okay, but if the bench sucks, what do we have to lose playing them?
-There's nothing that can be done
*Insert reference to some young player from a decade ago not working out.
*Remember the coach we had from a decade ago, that's why we can't change now


The roster can be improved, but anyone saying they're good with going into next season with the same coach is kidding themselves. Yet another season we're going to limp into the playoffs with injuries, and you want to sign up for that again because you've got battered spouse syndrome based on some previous coaches.
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#294 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:33 pm

god shammgod wrote:
spree8 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
well he's been in other offenses and this is about the best he's ever played. the last time he shot this well from both the field and 3 was 17-18. guess who his coach was that year ? :lol:



The guy always is around 50% FG and 40% 3pt, like every year.
Giving Thibs all the credit for two years that are slightly higher is convenient.

You could easily say those two years are slightly higher because he played with Jimmy Butler (who obviously elevates his teammates wherever he goes) and because he returned home to his childhood favorite franchise (and is playing with another All-NBA hometown player in Brunson).

But na, “it’s all thanks to Thibs, only Thibs, I love Thibs!”



so no matter who coaches him he's the same. thank you for agreeing with me.



His best statistical season is the year after the Wolves fired Thibs. This season is his his lowest 3 point attempt rate season since he was 23.
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#295 » by Jalen Bluntson » Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:37 pm

Spree2Houston wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:Two all star starters. The other three starters were playing at damn near all star level themselves for different stretches. Everyone in the starting 5 has a 30 burger this year. :lol: We struggled on defense early and we had a lot of injuries to the bench to overcome. We were winning though and the vibes were pretty amazing. Going back to the Chicago game where KAT got hurt and at the ASB the vibes changed. It just doesn't have the same energy they had earlier this season. They seem tired and worn out mentally after losses. Losing Brunson hurts a lot but, like I have said, something wasn't right before the injury.


There wasn’t enough film on the team back then. Now there’s tape on these guys. Aside from missing Brunson, this is who we really are


No
:beer: RIP mags
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#296 » by JayTWill » Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:37 pm

HEZI wrote:
JayTWill wrote:
HEZI wrote:
This is so false. How many “for the first time in franchise history” or “for the first time in x amount of years” have we gotten out of this group this season? Whether individual or team accomplishments there’s been a bunch of things this group has done that hasn’t been done for a long time in franchise history. They are obviously being maxed out. I’m not sure what else you are looking for out of a group that isn’t a contender. You can’t say they aren’t a contender then at the same time expect contender like results. Otherwise they would be a contender.

And if development was really a priority then the front office shouldn’t have punted on so many draft picks. First of all there is a league for development, it’s literally called the development league aka DLeague aka the GLeague. That’s where you can develop your rookies who need it and aren’t ready.

What are the positives of keeping this team? If you come to terms they aren’t contender why are you focusing on the coach instead of asking for actual roster changes? If you know the roster isn’t good enough then what’s the point of it? What are the positives?


I have no clue what you are talking about as far as "the first time in franchise history" as if that means something. You don't think this years' team could be better in any possible way?

Do you believe this team has a chance to contend this year? If not what is the point of playing the starters so many minutes, shortening the rotation and not playing the young guys while investing time in guys that probably won't be here next year? Is Thibs building something going forward that I just can't see?

I'm very open to roster changes but i'm not exactly sure how they do that now and get better? By selling low on Mikal after overpaying for him? Admitting that KAT is a bad fit at the 5 but hoping someone else likes him at the 5 after Thibs wears his body down? Trading the young guys with no value that have been glued to the bench all year so many people are assuming they suck? Hoping that some quality player is watching how Thibs uses his bench and wants to come play his beautiful brand of basketball for the vet min or the small taxpayer MLE that they could find anyone with last summer?

The entire roster has changed since his first playoff appearance in year 1 and almost all of the youth and draft picks have been traded away yet the team may still get bounced in round 1 just like it did 5 years ago.


Nope they can’t be better. With every rotation “solution” a new problem is created so while you think you fixed one thing you do so by breaking something else. That’s because the roster is constructed in such a way that coaching won’t fix the issues.

Nope they don’t have a chance to contend. Thibs is doing his job which is to coach to win every game. That’s what he gets paid to do with each paycheck. He’s not the GM or trainer or doctor or all these other things you believes a coach is responsible for, he just coaches.

The roster will have to be fixed by the same guy who put the team together. At least roster changes are realistic. Expecting an NBA coach to teach these soon to be 30 year olds how to shoot, dribble and defend at this stage in their careers and fix all the problems with the team is unrealistic.


I have never thought any of the Knicks teams in the last 5-6 years had the talent to contend. Not the January 2024 Knicks, not the Decmeber 2024 Knicks. I can see the flaws in the roster the front office constructed with Thibs and things players could be better at individually but the idea that somehow Thibs has found the exact best solution possible to every problem is ridiculous.

As far as improving the team how are roster changes a simple solution? You can't call someone like Mikal a "mid" role-player and then magically turn him into a better player especially when you have almost no assets to attach to him. You can't just magically change players into better players especially when the guys you are trying to move are already in their primes.

What are they supposed to do now? Hope that the Bucks GM saw Brunson and KAT not take this team to another level together and think to himself that maybe he should exchange possibly a top 5 player in Giannis for KAT to try him with an ageing Lillard and a worse supporting cast? Hope that a team gives the Knicks a better player making $23M or less for Mikal just because? Break Mikal up into multiple cheaper pieces that aren't as good as him individually? Trade Brunson who probably has the highest trade value and hope another player fits better with the team?

Explain to me how they will make the roster significantly better with the way you talk about the players some of the vets, the young players that Thibs won't even let touch the court, the limited draft capital available to trade and the limited money to offer. Changing the coach is very easy. You don't have to worry about trade value or the salary cap.
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#297 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:40 pm

Horford takes 5.0 threes per game in 27.5 mpg, KAT takes 4.9 in 35mpg. You're kidding yourself if you think this is making the best use of KATs talents. His best season ever he took 7.9 per game, and with the way the game has moved him should be taking 8-9 per game, not 4.9.
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#298 » by god shammgod » Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:41 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
spree8 wrote:

The guy always is around 50% FG and 40% 3pt, like every year.
Giving Thibs all the credit for two years that are slightly higher is convenient.

You could easily say those two years are slightly higher because he played with Jimmy Butler (who obviously elevates his teammates wherever he goes) and because he returned home to his childhood favorite franchise (and is playing with another All-NBA hometown player in Brunson).

But na, “it’s all thanks to Thibs, only Thibs, I love Thibs!”



so no matter who coaches him he's the same. thank you for agreeing with me.



His best statistical season is the year after the Wolves fired Thibs. This season is his his lowest 3 point attempt rate season since he was 23.


based on what ? points per game ? and i thought we were talking about using him better. his most efficient year was 17-18.
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#299 » by CharlesOakley » Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:43 pm

We don't use our bench, we don't have sensible rotations, our defensive schemes are terrible - that is all coaching. Time for someone who understands the modern game.
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Re: PG: Thibs B Gone 

Post#300 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:45 pm

god shammgod wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
god shammgod wrote:

so no matter who coaches him he's the same. thank you for agreeing with me.



His best statistical season is the year after the Wolves fired Thibs. This season is his his lowest 3 point attempt rate season since he was 23.


based on what ? points per game ? and i thought we were talking about using him better. his most efficient year was 17-18.




His ChaHell stats were higher in 2019-20, higher BPM, higher PER, highest OBPM, 3rd highest DBPM and higher than 17-18.


No season in which he's taking under 5 threes a game is good use of his talent, there is no excuse for Horford taking more threes than him. Naz Reid plays about 7 less MPG and takes 1 more three per game than him.

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