The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here..

[mugzi]

No what you dont like is any dissenting opinion Dick.

When I post in this thread its to provide a counterpoint to the left. Im so sorry if that offends you, but too bad. The mere presence of you is offensive to me, but I dont act like a barking dog everytime you post on here. {" Mugzi said this, Mugzi is a Bush lover, blah blah blah}

You dont like what I post Dick, ignore it, put me on ignore, its not that hard to do. But you wont do that because then you'd have no one to gossip about. Id put you on ignore except for the fact that you cant keep my name out of your mouth, so I have to keep an eye out for all the vitriol you send my way.

Ive had civil discussions with CGF, we dont always agree but we've always kept it civil between us. The only people that Ive argued with are you, Wingo and Duetta. Wingo and I are cordial now and Duetta doesnt post in here much anymore. So in reality the only person who has a problem with me IS YOU. Get over it Dick for your own sake, like I said ignore me itll save us both time and keystrokes.

Save that martyr crap for someone else Dick, about you helping people. People that are truly altruistic dont have the need to announce that on a message board, its just attention hoaring. I dont find the need to announce what charities Ive donated to, because giving isnt about accolades.

[richardhutnik]

So mugzi, back to the question at hand. Exactly HOW much have you done to help people? STOP turning this question I ask you into something about me. If you don't answer, then the answer is obvious. It is none. And I can see why offend you:
* When discussing things from a Christian perspective, you have failed to show a basic Biblical understanding of things, while claiming to be a Christian. Want to know a main issue I have, it is that? It is because of what has happened in the political media realm in regards to the Christian faith, and how it gets spun, that results in people not understanding what the Christian faith is about. Your discussing, failing to, and falling short in that area hasn't done anything at all to help here.
* You are selective in your use of sources, to justify whatever you hold to be valid. You do a selective showing of Ron Paul, for example.
* You are inconsistent in the standards you hold people to.

Mugzi, politics is not some sort of game where you score and win and be smug. Policies implemented can get people killed. Lack of action, and the direction of a nation can permanently mess things up. I do take these things relatively seriously, like in this thread, because of the nature of things. And that is how it is.

It isn't a case of liking or disliking what you post Mugzi. It is what is written here that is game for being debated and agreed or disagreed with. I do this. If you don't like it, why don't you stop posting and put me on ignore? I really don't care if you do or don't.

Oh yes, and as for why I mentioned what I did, the reply YOU would come back would be, if i didn't say it: "Well what have YOU done to help others? Oh, don't say. Must be nothing! Nothing like a good old liberal to be a hypocrite". Any vitrol I have would be my taking what you speak to logical conclusions, until you can show them otherwise. I do say that you do believe the poor are lazy, and do deserve to get what they do, because you failed to show any evidence to the contrary that you don't believe this. And yes, my comment about Repo Men do tie into this also. You haven't shown any sign you would be opposed to a world where body parts get repossessed by people who can't make payment and they die. And that comes out of reaching conclusions based upon what you believe.

By the way, I am currently not in the welfare system, contrary to what you think. I refused to end up on a permanent downward spiral that would cost me a chance at doing anything, like get rid of my car, just so I end up with health care. WAIT, I can't say this, because it would be "attention hoaring". I think that should be "attention whoring", by the way.

- Rich

[orangeblobman]

But, for me, it comes down to this. You can tax me, you can try to bleed me dry, whatever. At the end of the day, as long as I have the security (property rights, law enforcement) to accumulate wealth, I will accumulate wealth. That's all I need. Room to accumulate. Without getting into the mess that is politics, without stressing myself out too much, I just want the security to work, build wealth, and pass some of that wealth down to my posterity. And that's all I care about.

[mugzi]

Now you're the spelling police?!

Attention whoring is your thing not mine. Besides I threw down the challenge first, ignore me if my posts offend you. I'm not going to stop posting here for you or anyone else.

I dont need to tell you what Ive done to help people. Ive helped friends get back on their feet with loans, Ive donated to well known charities, not cause I wanted to look good, but because it was the right thing to do. You act as if I owe you an itemized list of my good deeds, grow up Dicky.

You want to paraphrase and put words in my mouth that the poor are lazy, well some of them are, others have been dealt bad hands.

But you are lazy. How do I know? You spend five to eight hours a day on this site which is pretty sad. You can deny that if you'd like but your post count doesnt lie.

I suppose if you did get off your rear and found a job, it would interfere with your current job as Board Genius and thats far more important to you.

I saw Repo Men, pretty good movie but the premise is far fetched. While people should honor contracts they sign, no they shouldnt have organs removed for nonpayment, its inhumane.

And since you wanted to be Mr. spelling cop its vitriol genius, not vitrol.

[richardhutnik]

But, for me, it comes down to this. You can tax me, you can try to bleed me dry, whatever. At the end of the day, as long as I have the security (property rights, law enforcement) to accumulate wealth, I will accumulate wealth. That's all I need. Room to accumulate. Without getting into the mess that is politics, without stressing myself out too much, I just want the security to work, build wealth, and pass some of that wealth down to my posterity. And that's all I care about.

The ability to accumulate wealth depends on a lot of things. You look at inner cities in certain cities, and other places, like third-world nations, and there are serious issues that make wealth accumulation far more difficult. This goes beyond merely having private property rights to have this. If a society is overwhelmed with disease and is a war zone. When individuals have been so set back they give up hope, and other factors, such as being prone to committing violence to property and others, then you have a hard time getting wealthy. This happens over and over again. Huckabee, in "Do the Right Thing" talks about two different cities, one his ideal and another overridden with crime, drug use, and other problems. He asks which city will have lower taxes, and can afford to cut taxes. It is the former. And this is a generally conservative, as opposed to Libertarian belief. Conservatives believe in there being societal norms to govern conduct, to insure that society is preserved, and its values are maintained.

Libertarians (philosophical in live, as opposed to just political) believe that talk is nonsense, and everything is just between two people. All you need is a court system to enforce contracts, and you are set.

Also, it is interesting the term "lazy" that gets thrown around, in relation to the situation someone is in their life. It has been argued on here I am lazy in regards to my life. The use of one''s time is a judge here of things. I do personally believe that what one accomplishes as results. So, I would ask is what I have done a sign of being lazy? The non-profit work, the work on the website, the attempts to make calls to get people involved and the like all laziness, because they haven't resulted in the accumulation of money yet? Maybe, or maybe not. There is a motivation factor.

And then the luck factor to? I know one guy, who happened to serve as a director level position out in Vegas. He got downsized due to the economy. He is now hoping he can land a $9/hr. telemarketing position, just to get money coming it. So, where does it fit in that it is his fault, and he is lazy vs him getting really bad luck here. He has been out of work awhile. I guess he must be REAL lazy, right?

- Rich

[richardhutnik]

But you are lazy. How do I know? You spend five to eight hours a day on this site which is pretty sad. You can deny that if you'd like but your post count doesnt lie.

I suppose if you did get off your rear and found a job, it would interfere with your current job as Board Genius and thats far more important to you.

Fascinating. This is really fascinating how you have taking 5 to 8 hours out of your day to measure how long I am on here. The concept of appearing several times a day here, for 10 minutes or so, hasn't struck you. No, you spend you time actually spying on my desktop to see exactly what I have been doing with my time.

I do wish you fun tomorrow doing this. I have a trip tomorrow down to NYC to meet with a casting agency involved with television to possibly work on a TV show they are involved with, and also set up a pitching of ideas that may result in something else getting on the air in the future, that would relate to my non-profit work. It will be real hard to end up being on here doing that. But go ahead and feel that I am taking 5-8 hours tomorrow on here doing this.

- Rich

[orangeblobman]

Rich, I have to respectfully disagree.

The ability to accumulate wealth does not depend on a lot of things. It depends, first, on hard work and second on self discipline in spending; being frugal and unconcerned with superficial materialism.

[HarthorneWingo]

Rich, I have to respectfully disagree.

The ability to accumulate wealth does not depend on a lot of things. It depends, first, on hard work and second on self discipline in spending; being frugal and unconcerned with superficial materialism.

... and screwing people. Don't forget that. ("Behind every great fortune, there is a great crime.")

I think Rich is just looking for a job that will pay the bills, provide health insurance and give him some fun money. But I don't speak for him.

[richardhutnik]

Rich, I have to respectfully disagree.

The ability to accumulate wealth does not depend on a lot of things. It depends, first, on hard work and second on self discipline in spending; being frugal and unconcerned with superficial materialism.

When Is said a lot of things, I wasn't just talking about like we have in America, but generally an economy as a whole (what economies do well, etc...). In a case where you have a Kleptocrasy, or a selective rules enforcement, or cases where the tax rate is too high, this can cause a nation to remain poor. The same if the culture of the society is one which doesn't encourage industry and people working hard. If there is also an excessive focus on vain consumption, that can also end up being a barrier to creation of wealth. The same with a nation of poorly educated citizens will also suffer. All these little things do add up. Beyond this, assuming that the above is taken care of, then it gets to be fairly simple. The process to accumulate wealth is to keep expenses less than income, and increasingly provide more value to people you serve with goods and services. Prudently manage this, and you will generate wealth.

What I write is meant to explain why you have nations in Africa that are perpetually poor, eventhough they may be sitting on a lot of natural resources in demand.

- Rich

[richardhutnik]

Rich, I have to respectfully disagree.

The ability to accumulate wealth does not depend on a lot of things. It depends, first, on hard work and second on self discipline in spending; being frugal and unconcerned with superficial materialism.

... and screwing people. Don't forget that. ("Behind every great fortune, there is a great crime.")

I think Rich is just looking for a job that will pay the bills, provide health insurance and give him some fun money. But I don't speak for him.

Hawthorne, I don't agree with you here. Repeated business, that generates wealth, is not built on screwing anyone. It is built upon providing fair value so people keep doing business with you. Sustained growth of wealth is based on this. As for myself, I was speaking in general on the generation of wealth.

As for a job, I am doing a pro-bono job now, through a non-profit I have, because it is the only way I can do work and not get messed up on the unemployment. I actually do need to pay my bills, and would prefer health insurance (at least an ability to go get checkups and dental work, and new glasses). I also have to find something where I will get hired. I either face a gap of multiple years without paid work, or have to explain where the non-profit fits in. The fact I have it on my resume makes it easier to get interviews, but also makes it harder to get hired.

Anyhow, do I do a two hour drive each way to Albany just to do data entry for an HMO on the weekend? That was presented to me as a possible option at an interview recently. They guy didn't think I would consider it, and I have to ask whether this is possible. I don't believe my car, which has over 220,000 miles on it, could end up handling this. What I went up there for was an interview for an IT person to work as a systems engineer for the HMO, to help them virtualize their hardware and support it. They changed their specs on what they were looking for, because they couldn't find anyone certified in VMWare. At least I was in the running, as I have been for programming jobs, project manager position (I was told I was overqualified for a project coordinator position someone mentioned on here), and other things also, even technical sales. The things I go on interviews for is far wider than normal. I do have a consulting relationship now with a start-up to help them going (pro-bono) I am able to do through my non-profit. Board of Director level was discussed, but I had mentioned the other way for now is better, in a mutual consulting arrangement.

It is best to limit conversation to here to general political issues, and how things are, with personal references only used as examples. It is not productive to this become a discussion about this detail or that of a person's life. It is enough to say it is, like the guy with over 30 years IT experience, and an IT director, who now is hoping to land a job around $9/hr. doing telemarketing. It is there as a reality, but does anyone really want to discuss whether he is lazy or not? Had that guy landed a job in Florida (Director level with hiring authority), I would of had a job down there. But not going to happen it seems now.

- Rich

[HarthorneWingo]

Agreed.

[mrpoetryNmotion]

Thought this was interesting and maybe it fits in here but:

Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees

BALTIMORE — The father of a Marine killed in Iraq and whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters was ordered to pay the protesters’ appeal costs, his lawyers said Monday.

On Friday, Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered Snyder to pay $16,510 to Fred Phelps. Phelps is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, which conducted protests at Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder’s funeral in 2006.

The two-page decision supplied by attorneys for Albert Snyder of York, Pa., offered no details on how the court came to its decision.

Attorneys also said Snyder is struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court.

The decision adds “insult to injury,” said Sean Summers, one of Snyder’s lawyers.

The high court agreed to consider whether the protesters’ message is protected by the First Amendment or limited by the competing privacy and religious rights of the mourners.

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?sect ... icle=69020

Thoughts?

[HarthorneWingo]

Thought this was interesting and maybe it fits in here but:

Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees

BALTIMORE — The father of a Marine killed in Iraq and whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters was ordered to pay the protesters’ appeal costs, his lawyers said Monday.

On Friday, Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered Snyder to pay $16,510 to Fred Phelps. Phelps is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, which conducted protests at Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder’s funeral in 2006.

The two-page decision supplied by attorneys for Albert Snyder of York, Pa., offered no details on how the court came to its decision.

Attorneys also said Snyder is struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court.

The decision adds “insult to injury,” said Sean Summers, one of Snyder’s lawyers.

The high court agreed to consider whether the protesters’ message is protected by the First Amendment or limited by the competing privacy and religious rights of the mourners.

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?sect ... icle=69020

Thoughts?

I think there's a lot missing. If Snyder was ordered to pay those costs, he must have unsuccessfully sued the Church after their despicable and disrespectful behavior. Under the Federal Rules of Court, a defendant may petition to get certain enumerated costs it incurred as a result of being sued. Tough break. I'd like to find out more about the underlying lawsuit and appeals.

[richardhutnik]

Thought this was interesting and maybe it fits in here but:

Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?sect ... icle=69020

Thoughts?

I suggest ACT-UP or some other such group repeatedly picket the services of Mr. Phelps and disrupt things with them. And then when they sue, they can have Mr. Phelps pay their court fees.

Individuals like Mr. Phelps is what I have concern about in regards to the Christian faith. I am hard pressed to justify his actions, and feel they are very counter-productive. Is he also going to call America on not doing as well of a job as it could taking care of the poor, its excessive consumerism, and other such issues? How about he end up protesting America for putting partisan politics above doing the will of Jesus?

- Rich

[richardhutnik]

Agreed.

There ARE people who did steal and do other crimes, and did get rich as a result. If they are in a business with a lot of one-time transactions, it is easier for them to end up practicing fraud. You also have the Ponzi angle to it, which eventually collapses.

- Rich

[orangeblobman]

Thought this was interesting and maybe it fits in here but:

Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?sect ... icle=69020

Thoughts?

I suggest ACT-UP or some other such group repeatedly picket the services of Mr. Phelps and disrupt things with them. And then when they sue, they can have Mr. Phelps pay their court fees.

Individuals like Mr. Phelps is what I have concern about in regards to the Christian faith. I am hard pressed to justify his actions, and feel they are very counter-productive. Is he also going to call America on not doing as well of a job as it could taking care of the poor, its excessive consumerism, and other such issues? How about he end up protesting America for putting partisan politics above doing the will of Jesus?

- Rich

What happened here? Why did the dad sue Mr Phelps?

[be reasonable]

he disrupted his son's funeral

[seren]

Did anyone watch the 60 minutes piece on Mikhail Prokhorov? Dude sits on 17 billion dollar worth of assets. Yeah, I am sure it is all hard work.

[richardhutnik]

I am reading this book now:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Changes-Your- ... 0345503414

It goes into the impact on the brain of different religious beliefs and how one views who/what God is. Things like fear and anger being counterproductive to the brain, and so on. And it does point out that religious people do get personal benefit from worshiping God, in how it helps improve cognitive processes. Individuals who are fundamentalist will end to get benefit, but also have bad side effects.

Well, I do have more to read. I will know I need to be mindful about getting angry over things.

- Rich

[HarthorneWingo]

I am reading this book now:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Changes-Your- ... 0345503414

It goes into the impact on the brain of different religious beliefs and how one views who/what God is. Things like fear and anger being counterproductive to the brain, and so on. And it does point out that religious people do get personal benefit from worshiping God, in how it helps improve cognitive processes. Individuals who are fundamentalist will end to get benefit, but also have bad side effects.

Well, I do have more to read. I will know I need to be mindful about getting angry over things.

- Rich

Organized religion is counterproductive to the brain. Deism is about the closest thing to "religion" I could ever come to follow. And, pardon by skepticism, by how are those "improvements" on "cognitive processes," by worshiping God, measured? Are they simply happier and content in living and believing in their own fantasy world?