Trade Felton

[UnderdogKnicks]

It's pretty silly to trade Felton especially now. Guy is a great fit for this team with his ability to penetrate off the PnR, he's just missing open shots. We don't need to trade Felton, he needs to take less shots that is all.

[knicksnyk]

Justaknick, I don't know what games you have been watching quicker guards have been blowing by Felton and the rest of our guards the whole season. The only guy healthy on the roster right now that can somewhat stay with them is JR but he usually ends up getting in foul trouble because of it. Felton is so overrated defensively on this board.

THIS! It is borderline ridiculous. LOL that is why I have been active on twitter & knickerblogger & less frequent on this board because i go crazy sometimes on this board I feel like people are literally making stuff up.

[MaseInYourFace]

BTW, for the record I don't want him traded.

[Jordan Diddy]

This OP is a bum!

[MaseInYourFace]

Ridiculous? Some of you really make me chuckle. The moment anyone disagrees with you, they are ridiculous. Last I checked Felton's never made all-nba D or even been in serious discussion for one. He's a decent defender. Nothing special there. He certainly ain't shumpert. I've seen plenty of Felton. He can't stay with the quickest guards in this league. It's a fact. Like another poster also pointed out he also struggles with screens at times. But we can still win with him and I still think he's a good player.

[thebuzzardman]

Isn't the OP always ranting against someone on team when they have a bad stretch? Then when posters question his Bi-Polar tendencies, he quickly jumps back that "you can't criticize any player, everyone is a homer!". Which is an awesome preemptive use of blaming someone for the inverse of what he himself does. I love it.

[21shumpshumpst]

I use those Knicks examples because there really isn't any clips of him as a Rocket when he's playing defense right now. You don't just go from awful lateral quickness to solid lateral quickness in an offseason, especially when you were injured in that offseason. I find it incredibly hard to believe that Lin's improved so much that he's now an average defender, and one at the same level that Felton is.

So Nate had one game where he was hot. JL3 also torched the entire defense, does that mean he's an unguardable player where he can only stop himself? Also, you're making blind statements now. Give me some examples where Felton gets burned on isolations, because whenever I see PGs go Iso against him, they almost always end up settling for jumpers.

LOL but you admitted you don't watch the rockets so how would you know? You are contradicting yourself & openly admitting that you are talking about something you know nothing about because you don't watch.

Okay so do this. Find the Lin highlights against Minnesota from last season. It is called Jeremy Lin TimberWolves vs Knicks Highlights 02.11.2012
Around the 2 minute 30 second mark JJ barea tries to beat Lin off the dribble without the screen. See how Lin does defensively Clyde points it out & there is even a replay. I am not posting the video here if you want to see it check your self.

Opposing players score 0.89 PPP in isolation against Felton, against Lin 0.69PPP in isolation. Felton ranks 84th in the NBA in defending iso's Lin ranks 36th. those are your examples.

This is a trade felton thread not a Lin is better than Felton because zomg advanced stats that don't take into account offensive or defensive schemes say so thread. Rockets board is that way.

[knicksnyk]

Ridiculous? Some of you really make me chuckle. The moment anyone disagrees with you, they are ridiculous. Last I checked Felton's never made all-nba D or even been in serious discussion for one. He's a decent defender. Nothing special there. He certainly ain't shumpert. I've seen plenty of Felton. He can't stay with the quickest guards in this league. It's a fact. Like another poster also pointed out he also struggles with screens at times. But we can still win with him and I still think he's a good player.

I was agreeing with you. Felton is seriously overrated defensively on this board it is crazy.

@ny You can't just go by those metric stats. A lot of those Iso points ended up coming against Brooklyn(not Feltons best games defensively by far) when Felton was switching lazily onto Joe Johnson, and was getting posted up by him and Dwill. Also, Kyrie Irving was hitting a lot of tough jumpers against him which makes his iso stats seem worse than they really are.

LOL so I have metrics that say he is a poor defender & you say disregard him. If I had stats that said he was better i doubt you would say the same. Maybe the reason why kyrie was hitting all those tough shots against felton was because he knew a bad defender was in front of him!! LMAO you remember that?

[JustaKnickFan]

Look, I've watched a ton of Knicks games this year. I'll admit occasionally Felton will get beat by a quick PG, but it's not nearly as much as you guys make it out to be. The thing is that we have bad PnR defense which allows guards to either penetrate or pass to the big men which leads to assists and points. Also, we don't have good transition defense, which allows guards like Lin and Lawson to get some easy baskets. Then, I feel like we see the box scores for these guards and immediately come to the conclusion Felton is a bad defender.

Please though, if you guys can find some examples of Felton getting beat badly by faster faster point guards then by all means show me because I'm probably exaggerating his iso defense, too. It's just I can't really remember times where he gets beat 1 on 1.

It's funny though how you want to throw away all of Lin's awful defense last year and just say he's better than Felton. I'm sorry but you don't just go from being an awful defender to an average one which I'm sure we can agree Felton is, especially when you're coming back from an injury. Here's Irving's game against the Knicks, watching this there were only 2 times were Felton was actually beat by Irving.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baKkSv-Q9LE[/youtube]

[MaseInYourFace]

Ridiculous? Some of you really make me chuckle. The moment anyone disagrees with you, they are ridiculous. Last I checked Felton's never made all-nba D or even been in serious discussion for one. He's a decent defender. Nothing special there. He certainly ain't shumpert. I've seen plenty of Felton. He can't stay with the quickest guards in this league. It's a fact. Like another poster also pointed out he also struggles with screens at times. But we can still win with him and I still think he's a good player.

I was agreeing with you.

@ny You can't just go by those metric stats. A lot of those Iso points ended up coming against Brooklyn(not Feltons best games defensively by far) when Felton was switching lazily onto Joe Johnson, and was getting posted up by him and Dwill. Also, Kyrie Irving was hitting a lot of tough jumpers against him which makes his iso stats seem worse than they really are.

LOL so I have metrics that say he is a poor defender & you say disregard him. If I had stats that said he was better i doubt you would say the same. Maybe the reason why kyrie was hitting all those tough shots against felton was because he knew a bad defender was in front of him!! LMAO you remember that?

Oops, I misread your post. My bad.

[Sprewell4Three]

Felton doesn't have the skill set to make up for all those bricks he accumulates through out the game. See eventhough Westbrook is a low % chucker he atleast makes game changing plays through out the game. His ability to get to the FT line makes up for his chucks. Felton doesn't have the ability to get to the line on a consistent basis. So if his shot isn't falling, then he's pretty much useless out there.

I cringe each time he shoots. He's a backup as far as I'm concerned.

I thank the lord each day that the Knicks have a coach on floor in Jason kidd.

[Thugger HBC]

LOL so I have metrics that say he is a poor defender & you say disregard him. If I had stats that said he was better i doubt you would say the same. Maybe the reason why kyrie was hitting all those tough shots against felton was because he knew a bad defender was in front of him!! LMAO you remember that?

I'd like to see those metrics that show he's poor.

Using Kyrie as an example is totally poor, that kid can shoot from anywhere.

[bronxknicksfan1]

Ridiculous? Some of you really make me chuckle. The moment anyone disagrees with you, they are ridiculous. Last I checked Felton's never made all-nba D or even been in serious discussion for one. He's a decent defender. Nothing special there. He certainly ain't shumpert. I've seen plenty of Felton. He can't stay with the quickest guards in this league. It's a fact. Like another poster also pointed out he also struggles with screens at times. But we can still win with him and I still think he's a good player.

I was agreeing with you. Felton is seriously overrated defensively on this board it is crazy.

@ny You can't just go by those metric stats. A lot of those Iso points ended up coming against Brooklyn(not Feltons best games defensively by far) when Felton was switching lazily onto Joe Johnson, and was getting posted up by him and Dwill. Also, Kyrie Irving was hitting a lot of tough jumpers against him which makes his iso stats seem worse than they really are.

LOL so I have metrics that say he is a poor defender & you say disregard him. If I had stats that said he was better i doubt you would say the same. Maybe the reason why kyrie was hitting all those tough shots against felton was because he knew a bad defender was in front of him!! LMAO you remember that?

The metrics you put up only showed he isn't that good of a PnR defender, which is true. All the other ones either show he's a decent defender or don't have enough of a sample size. Use different stats to try and prove that point, if you can find them.

[knicksnyk]

Look, I've watched a ton of Knicks games this year. I'll admit occasionally Felton will get beat by a quick PG, but it's not nearly as much as you guys make it out to be. The thing is that we have bad PnR defense which allows guards to either penetrate or pass to the big men which leads to assists and points. Also, we don't have good transition defense, which allows guards like Lin and Lawson to get some easy baskets. Then, I feel like we see the box scores for these guards and immediately come to the conclusion Felton is a bad defender.

Please though, if you guys can find some examples of Felton getting beat badly by faster faster point guards then by all means show me because I'm probably exaggerating his iso defense, too. It's just I can't really remember times where he gets beat 1 on 1.

It's funny though how you want to throw away all of Lin's awful defense last year and just say he's better than Felton. I'm sorry but you don't just go from being an awful defender to an average one which I'm sure we can agree Felton is, especially when you're coming back from an injury.

LMAO wait a minutes. But felton was awful defensively in portland was legitimately bad the opposing team scored more points with him on the court than off & now you say he is average one year later in NY (I agree). LOL so Lin can't do the same get better in the off season. If Lin could increase his PPP as the PNR ball handler ranking from 67th in the NBA last season to 39th in the NBA this season why can't he improve his defense? I gave you his defensive numbers he is the 36th best isolation defender & this is among all NBA positions holding players to 0.69ppp improved from 0.94ppp last year 159th best. Stop talking about something you admitted you know nothing about you said so yourself you don't watch. LOL

[earthmansurfer]

I don't want Felton traded but when I say management should be held accountable I'm talking about where we probably will end up after the playoffs are concerned. We have an old team and the season is young and injuries, you could easily say, are already affecting us, regarding Camby and Rasheed. Letting Lin walk was stupid. I like Felton, actually a fair amount, but he is too INCONSISTENT to be depended on to be our starter.

Now, perhaps when Stat and Shump come back we actually get better and then Felton doesn't matter as much as he will be taking fewer shots. But if the chemistry thing doesn't work out and we need to depend on Felton, I say that goes against us in the end.

[JustaKnickFan]

Also, as for Kemba Walker torching the Knicks, you can see here it was because of bad transition D, and PnR defense, not necessarily bad Felton iso defense.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01DIB6h-V1s[/youtube]

[rl2011]

20-7

20-7

20-7

20-7

20-7

Felton is being asked to be our #2 and #3 scoring options, depending if JR is on the floor and if he is hot or not. He has played much better than I would have thought coming into the season, especially considering the burden he has to carry. Run the O, create for others, score etc. He fits our team perfectly, he is a gritty player, and Melo/Woodson love the guy. Enough said.

Our team has the perfect components around Melo for what our options where. Are there more ideal components,of course, any of the Elite PG's except Rondo (because he would need to knock down way too many open jumpers) would fit in, but there is a salary cap and we got Felton for Jared Jeffries, so I would say that is a huge win.

Also one must consider our PG is not Ray Felton, its Felton-Kidd-Prigs who together create a nice shooting, turnover free playmaking threat for 48 minutes.

Advanced Statistics should be taken with a grain of salt also. This is not baseball and so much of what goes on on the basketball court cannot be measured by any statistic. Like the media saying Melo's true shooting percentage and all that BS. Well carmelo being on the court if you WATCH the game creates easy buckets for others based on how much the D has to pay attention to him. Same thing with Ray Felton - his D is ok its not great but he plays extremely hard, cares, and is all about the team. He is in a slump now but he will get out of it.

All that matters is that come May/June he is playing like he did in November.

[Sark]

LOL so I have metrics that say he is a poor defender & you say disregard him. If I had stats that said he was better i doubt you would say the same. Maybe the reason why kyrie was hitting all those tough shots against felton was because he knew a bad defender was in front of him!! LMAO you remember that?

I'd like to see those metrics that show he's poor.

Using Kyrie as an example is totally poor, that kid can shoot from anywhere.

His defensive rating is one of the worst on the team. It's 109. The only one with a worse rating is Novak.

[Thugger HBC]

If you want to converse about Felton, cool.

But leave Lin out, he has nothing to do with this discussion.

[CrazyKnicks]

Isn't the OP always ranting against someone on team when they have a bad stretch? Then when posters question his Bi-Polar tendencies, he quickly jumps back that "you can't criticize any player, everyone is a homer!". Which is an awesome preemptive use of blaming someone for the inverse of what he himself does. I love it.

I'll admit, maybe the thread is a bit of an overreaction as I was frustrated watching the game yesterday with Felton chucking and not looking like a pg at all.

However it's not about Felton missing shots, it's about his decision making in deciding to take those shots. I know we say that we should stand pat at the deadline, but I wouldn't mind if the right deal comes along for Felton and we get rid of him.