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PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again

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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#301 » by HEZI » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:19 pm

Knickerbock wrote:Missed yesterdays game... Looks like typical garbage in the first half...

But in the second half they played solid defense... and then went off scoring like over 35 in the 4th?

How did that happen? What changed?


Read on Twitter


+

Melo started cooking in the 3rd and took the Knicks and put them on his shoulders and went into NBA2K mode for about 3 straight minutes

+

Nets defense crumbled

+

Jeff Hornacek benched Lance Thomas, KOQ and Justin Holiday and unleashed the guys who haven't been playing much (Kuz,Willy and Sasha) and they responded well
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#302 » by Amare_1_Knicks » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:20 pm

Random question, but does anyone know if Noah is on minutes restriction for any reason ? He's at about 23MPG on the season, and other than the game at Chicago, he hasn't been over 30 minutes.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#303 » by GONYK » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:21 pm

[gfycat][/gfycat]
Knickerbock wrote:Missed yesterdays game... Looks like typical garbage in the first half...

But in the second half they played solid defense... and then went off scoring like over 35 in the 4th?

How did that happen? What changed?


They played defense, Melo went absolutely apesh*t in the 3rd, then the international bench mob plus KP put them away in the 4th.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#304 » by OnTheWagon » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:21 pm

Knickerbock wrote:Missed yesterdays game... Looks like typical garbage in the first half...

But in the second half they played solid defense... and then went off scoring like over 35 in the 4th?

How did that happen? What changed?


Melo went absolutely lava cakes with 14 straight ISO points on the weak side of the triangle. Once the confidence was pepped up that the ball can actually go in the basket, the bench actually brought in some energy with Hernangomez, Cheeze, Jennings and co getting rewarded with extended minutes by Horny.

Unfortunately takeaways. Knicks still have absolutely no freakin idea how to defend stretch 4s. Porzingas is probably a bit too eager to chase blocks at this point. Guys still have no idea how to throw a good entry pass, especially when they have to lob the ball over the top. Maybe we need a passing coach to go along with Rambis's strange defensive schemes.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#305 » by GONYK » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:22 pm

Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Random question, but does anyone know if Noah is on minutes restriction for any reason ? He's at about 23MPG on the season, and other than the game at Chicago, he hasn't been over 30 minutes.


No. The issue is that he and KP can't really play together against teams with a stretch 4. KP doesn't get out on the perimeter well enough. Plus, he's had some foul issues in a few games.

There is a reason that he registered so many mins against Chicago.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#306 » by Capn'O » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:22 pm

Rotten Apple wrote:
Read on Twitter


Jennings played so f'n well yesterday. And that's smart - give the guy with the hot hand the ball. Then know to take it away when he cools. Why Melo needs to play next to a smart point guard.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#307 » by Rotten Apple » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:26 pm

Capn'O wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:
Read on Twitter


Jennings played so f'n well yesterday. And that's smart - give the guy with the hot hand the ball. Then know to take it away when he cools. Why Melo needs to play next to a smart point guard.


He controlled pace and found the right man every time. It was so beautiful to watch.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#308 » by GONYK » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:27 pm

Capn'O wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:
Read on Twitter


Jennings played so f'n well yesterday. And that's smart - give the guy with the hot hand the ball. Then know to take it away when he cools. Why Melo needs to play next to a smart point guard.


It's funny, because I don't think Jennings has ever been accused of being that.

But he's been a lot better here, and has really reigned in the shot selection. He's basically taking flashier versions of Pablo Prigioni shots. Open threes and the occasional pull up on the PnR.

He's even passing to a fault like Priggy Smalls.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#309 » by Capn'O » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:32 pm

GONYK wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:
Read on Twitter


Jennings played so f'n well yesterday. And that's smart - give the guy with the hot hand the ball. Then know to take it away when he cools. Why Melo needs to play next to a smart point guard.


It's funny, because I don't think Jennings has ever been accused of being that.

But he's been a lot better here, and has really reigned in the shot selection. He's basically taking flashier versions of Pablo Prigioni shots. Open threes and the occasional pull up on the PnR.

He's even passing to a fault like Priggy Smalls.


My take is that he is a smart player that does dumb things. I.e. he thinks he's a little better than he is (arrogant) and chucks/hotdogs it too much as a result but beneath that he has a good feel for game flow and his passing ability is top notch.

He's a guy that I think Phil thinks they can mold and if he does well he probably comes back. The arrogance is useful in some applications like not helping the other team up and getting in other guys' heads. The team rallies behind that. Not so useful when he's chucking away and missing.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#310 » by dakomish23 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:34 pm

Blockwatcher wrote:I worry Jennings is going to celebrate to hard and pop a blood vessel


He's going to shimmy and pop a shoulder knowing our luck
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#311 » by Capn'O » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Rock Bottom wrote:


"He's been hoodwinked"

:lol:
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#312 » by Capn'O » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:40 pm

Greenie wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:Willy looked amazing

again

the guy just knows how to play

he cuts, moves, passes and finishes at the rim
Hes a solid defender and rebounder

he really needs to be Noah's backup
KOQ can backup KP

N'Dour has no real use for us right now

I like Billy.


If he can play defense like he did yesterday... he's here for awhile. That dude can score.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#313 » by dakomish23 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:42 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:Willy looked amazing

again

the guy just knows how to play

he cuts, moves, passes and finishes at the rim
Hes a solid defender and rebounder

he really needs to be Noah's backup
KOQ can backup KP

N'Dour has no real use for us right now


There really is nothing NDour has brought to the table that says he should be playing at all. He has terrible hands and poor awareness on offense. On defense he seems to commit really dumb fouls. Maybe it's because he doesn't get steady burn so he's not letting what comes naturally occur? Who knows. He should be pushed to the end of the bench IMO
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#314 » by 2010 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:43 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
GnarlesOakley wrote:Hernangomez definitely needs more burn, he looks like an NBA player. His defense will be more exposed against better teams but his instincts are better than given credit for - his foot speed means his defensive ceiling probably isn't high but he should be able to hold his own with experience. At the very least give him enough time per game to grow.

It was nice to see ennings play distributor. He still did dumb stuff out there and that's why he's better off on the bench, but it's nice to see him be effective. I'll take stat lines like that from him anyday.

Kuz should also be a rotation player, he has a lot of issues but he has more talent than Lance.

ChilledAlex wrote:If Willy doesn't become next Pau I will be very dissapointed. Their games are so similar - both have great hands, great footwork, great finishing around the rim and most importantly instincts off the ball. Lots of promises from 2nd rounder, Love it! Thank you Gaines

Pau is 7', Willy is 6'10". This alone is significant.

Being realistic, we can't expect him to be either Gasol, but I'm glad he's locked up for now, he's a player worth developing.


As far as an NBA bench goes, if a team is deep, it'll have a guy or two who should be NBA starters, and the quality of that 6th or 7th man is a function of how good the starting lineup is. So a stacked team like the Warriors (extreme example) has in effect a 6th starter in Iggy.

Anyway, most other NBA teams have guys with more limitations - they are either good at defense, but not offense, or better offensively, less so on defense, or the guys who are "ok" at both (Lance Thomas on a good day)

So, if you want the "2nd unit" to have an identity, it could have a defensive one based on the bench having more of those strengths, where they try to keep the lead even (or the deficit) or maybe even chip into it, with defensive play. An offensive one will more go bucket for bucket with the other team, again, holding the points where they are, or maybe catching up a little.

I don't think the Knicks, outside of Holiday, really have a "plus" defender on the bench. KOQ is "ok". LT is "ok". WillieB and Kuz are probably less the "ok" at this point. I think Jennings is ok, but can go plus against certain opponents.

So, I'd go with playing Hernangomez and Kuz over KOQ and Thomas, with Jennings and Holiday. Jennings and Holiday have shown enough offense in a team oriented way to play with any unit. Kuz and WillieB are more offensive threats who move, space and pass while being legit offensive threats.

Might as well try to keep the score even or extend it a little with offense, not defense, in the 2nd unit. Also, in terms of staggered lineups, WillieB and Kuz offer better versatility and, importantly, chemistry in style of play with Porzingis.

Just my two cents. I'll admit to being biased towards Kuz and WillieB plus really disliking Thomas.


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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#315 » by NOOB77 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:46 pm

OnTheWagon wrote:
Knickerbock wrote:Missed yesterdays game... Looks like typical garbage in the first half...

But in the second half they played solid defense... and then went off scoring like over 35 in the 4th?

How did that happen? What changed?



Unfortunately takeaways. Knicks still have absolutely no freakin idea how to defend stretch 4s. Porzingas is probably a bit too eager to chase blocks at this point. Guys still have no idea how to throw a good entry pass, especially when they have to lob the ball over the top. Maybe we need a passing coach to go along with Rambis's strange defensive schemes.



In the third we saw a lot of Melo at the 4. I think going forward we may start seeing a little more of that especially when KP rotates to the bench.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#316 » by dakomish23 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:49 pm

Was there any point yesterday where we went to an all bench lineup other than maybe the final minute? It seemed like we kept either Melo or KP out there throughout the game.
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#317 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:50 pm

Anyone suprised how Jennings and rose adjusted their game here in New York? Props to them.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#318 » by RHODEY » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:50 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
BeagleBoss wrote:I'm going to be very upset if Hornecek goes with O'Quinn and Lance over Billy and Cheese. The rotation should be set by now. We've seen more then enough from Billy and Cheese to know they are more productive and far more energetic than O'Quinn and Lance. Around the 4-5 minute mark of the first, Hornecek should sub out KP and bring him back to start the 2nd quarter to run with Jennings, Holiday/Sasha, Cheese and Billy.

Kyle has been fine


Kyle has been fine this year, agreed. I just think we have an ok bench but the problem is there isn't much separation from the 2nd stringers to the 3rd stringers.

Billy G, Cheese, and Sasha all played nice roles yesterday

thats not saying that they are significantly better than KOQ, LT, and Holiday...they were just playing better at the time.

I just think Billy G is a little more fluid and dynamic than KOQ. KOQ is the better defender at the moment but Billy roles really well to the basket which opens up a lot more when playing alongside KP because you have to respect Billy's finishing ability so that sucks the defense in and opens up the spot up 3's for KP. KOQ is more of a pick and pop instead of a Pick and roll type guy.

I have a hard time defending lance at the moment.

And Holiday has been fine and I like his defense too, but sasha gave us good energy and change the defensive energy when he came in.


I agree with you only caveat, I think Willy is more than just a little more fluid and dynamic than KOQ.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#319 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:06 pm

GONYK wrote:
Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Random question, but does anyone know if Noah is on minutes restriction for any reason ? He's at about 23MPG on the season, and other than the game at Chicago, he hasn't been over 30 minutes.


No. The issue is that he and KP can't really play together against teams with a stretch 4. KP doesn't get out on the perimeter well enough. Plus, he's had some foul issues in a few games.

There is a reason that he registered so many mins against Chicago.


Is Noah/KP really that different then Willy/KP or KOQ/KP?

I think Hornacek is mostly trying to preserve him.
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Re: PG Thread: Making The Knicks Great Again 

Post#320 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:10 pm

GONYK wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:
Read on Twitter


Jennings played so f'n well yesterday. And that's smart - give the guy with the hot hand the ball. Then know to take it away when he cools. Why Melo needs to play next to a smart point guard.


It's funny, because I don't think Jennings has ever been accused of being that.

But he's been a lot better here, and has really reigned in the shot selection. He's basically taking flashier versions of Pablo Prigioni shots. Open threes and the occasional pull up on the PnR.

He's even passing to a fault like Priggy Smalls.


It seemed like Jennings was really starting to turn the corner in Det under SVG. But then he got hurt, switched teams and never really got back....until now. SVG was just reminiscing about it the other day

“He saved our season two years ago, I mean absolutely saved it,” Van Gundy said before Tuesday's game. “He just took over.”

Jennings’ season ended in January 2015 after rupturing his left Achilles.

He returned in December 2015, but was traded to the Orlando Magic before last February’s deadline. When the Pistons later clinched a playoff spot, Van Gundy texted his thanks to Jennings.

“I’ll be forever grateful for what he did that year,” Van Gundy said. “It wasn’t just his play. His play was great, but his energy, his swagger, and everything else, just turned the whole place around and got us headed in the right direction.

“I don’t think anybody has had a bigger role in us getting back to competiveness than Brandon, even though he’s not here right now.”
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