K-DOT wrote:OpiumDose wrote:"A" for an effort, but "F" for results interpretation and presentation. Being ranked on 32nd percentile is definitely bad (below average), especially for a starter.
F for interpretation says the guy that ignored where Tim is good and harped on where he's bad (which I said he was bad at in my op). And I didn't post the other play types because they either don't matter for guards (like PnR roll man coverage or post ups), or are too small a sample size for any meaninful information (like Isolation, where Tim has only defended .3 possesions per game)Also didn't see you mentioning DBPM anywhere and it figures as THJ is averaging -2.6 for his career (and -1.3 this season). I know that some people prefer ESPN's DRPM over that of basketball reference's DBMP so I looked up THJ's DRPM and he is currently ranked 290th in the league with -0.34.
Do you know how DBPM is calculated?
It's a function of rebounds, steals, and blocks. So it's not a good indicator of a player's defense because most of the things that contribute to defense aren't factored in to the function, cause they're not part of box scores
Do you know how DRPM is calculated?
I don't. Nobody outside of ESPN does. If you could show me the formula, I'd accept it and look for flaws, like DBPM has. But the formula is not public knowledge, therefore it's bullsh*t
And I didn't see you acknowledge the fact that players shoot worse when guarded by him, but you gotta cherry pick somehowIf he was "well within average efficiency" and "his good games outweigh the bad" then how come the two biggest sample sizes possible (career shooting numbers & season shooting numbers) are not "well within average"?Answer - because he is inefficient volume shooter who takes many dumb, rushed shots and thus is unable to sustain above average (or even average) shooting splits.
Actual answer - because you're taking his first 3 seasons into account and acting like players don't drastically improve their efficiency from ages 21-25? And his first 3 seasons weigh down his career numbers because of that?
His last 2 seasons he's at 15 ppg on 44/35/77 splits, 55.6% TS%, which is around average
And before you post about I'm cherry picking by ignoring 3 seasons, it's cause the player he was at 21 is different from the player he is today, so therefore using those numbers in the average is not really indicitave of how good he is nowYes, "ridiculous money". It's not only about numbers. It's about context of the situation. It was a bad deal. We could have gotten him for cheaper, but outbid ourselves (and that's not really the first time Knicks have done that - just look at Noah or Baker deals for examples from very recent history).
This is a dumb statement. I got nothing. You say that it's about the "principle" when ignoring the fact that it really isn't that much money, and he's worth it. Just like complaining about Baker making 4% of our cap it really doesn't matter that much
I'm done talking about this with you. My entire point was that you complained about cherry picking while cherry picking, which you continue to do. You have your agenda, have fun with it. Go troll someone else
F for interpretation says the guy that ignored where Tim is good and harped on where he's bad (which I said he was bad at in my op). And I didn't post the other play types because they either don't matter for guards (like PnR roll man coverage or post ups), or are too small a sample size for any meaninful information (like Isolation, where Tim has only defended .3 possesions per game)
What you said in the post above is, and I quote, "With regards to defense, Tim is about average. Nothing great, nothing terrible".
So, "nothing terrible"? Ranking on 32nd percentile is pretty terrible I'd say. I agree with "nothing great" part. Also I can't give too much credit to THJ being ranked on 66th percentile when in the same statistical category I see Derrick Rose ranked on 87th percentile - when I saw that I immediately wanted to dismiss this category on a whole because Rose is putrid defender.
Do you know how DBPM is calculated?
It's a function of rebounds, steals, and blocks. So it's not a good indicator of a player's defense because most of the things that contribute to defense aren't factored in to the function, cause they're not part of box scores
Excuses, excuses. So because a statistic doesn't support your argument you decided to ignore it. If someone tried to use advanced stats alone to prove something then you would have a point, but using them together with other statistics to get an overall picture is completely sensible. And I am 100% sure that if it happened to be that THJ really excelled in DBPM (or DRPM) then that would your argument No.1 of why THJ is not a bad defender. You brought in play type defense stats, I brought in advanced stats - seems only fair to me. And unless you can provide a list of elite defenders with awful DBPM (or DRPM) to prove your claim that "it's not a good indicator of player's defense", we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
And I didn't see you acknowledge the fact that players shoot worse when guarded by him, but you gotta cherry pick somehow
Yes, my bad. Opponents shoot whole 1% worse against him - what a defensive giant. That ranks him 8th on the Knicks and 145th in the league.
Actual answer - because you're taking his first 3 seasons into account and acting like players don't drastically improve their efficiency from ages 21-25? And his first 3 seasons weigh down his career numbers because of that?
His last 2 seasons he's at 15 ppg on 44/35/77 splits, 55.6% TS%, which is around average
This would have been kind of fair statement if not for the fact that his shooting percentages this year are way down from last year (and down from 2 of his first three seasons as well). So basically by looking at the last 2 seasons you are cherry-picking. Why not the last 3 seasons? Why not just this season? Because then your argument would fall flat - let's look at this season alone. 41.5% FG% (league average 46.0%) / 32.6% from 3PT (league average 36.2%) 53.6% TS% (league average 55.6%) - so all of those shooting percentages are well below league average.
And before you post about I'm cherry picking by ignoring 3 seasons, it's cause the player he was at 21 is different from the player he is today, so therefore using those numbers in the average is not really indicitave of how good he is now
Fine. And in a same way I ignored his last seasons shooting splits above and looked only at this season - at the end of the day, last season is not really indicative of how bad he is now
This is a dumb statement. I got nothing. You say that it's about the "principle" when ignoring the fact that it really isn't that much money, and he's worth it. Just like complaining about Baker making 4% of our cap it really doesn't matter that much
But he is not worth it. That's the part we definitely do not agree on. The number itself is not massive, but when compared to a)what we could have gotten him for and b) what he is actually worth, this contract is ridiculous. And it's fine if FO making dumb decisions doesn't matter much to you - it does matter to me.
I'm done talking about this with you. My entire point was that you complained about cherry picking while cherry picking
And I explained to you that your reading abilities are lacking since you completely misunderstood my initial post. I did complain about cherry-picking, but I did not cherry-pick to prove any of my points that I made in that post. If you think that me saying "Hardaway went for 2/24 in last 2 games" is cherry-picking - then, yes, I cherry-picked. But it was just stating a fact. And then recalling the recent post about how THJ is worth the money (discussion, in which by the way, I did not participate) and how some posters there were cherry picking games - and I was just wondering if these 2 games will be cherry-picked out again. That's all it was. I don't know where you saw cherry-picking, but It was not there.
Go troll someone else
That's weak. Ad hominem attack really proves that you are not capable of having a discussion/disagreement. I have done absolutely nothing for you to call me a troll or my arguments - "trolling". Really a low blow.
