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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#301 » by moocow007 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 2:25 pm

finestrg wrote:I understand he might be a little bit of a reach to some if we stay around 6 -- I just hope the Knicks do their homework on/really take a good long look at Daniel Oturu from Minnesota. There so much to like with him. He reminds me of a Myles Turner/Andre Drummond hybrid with his ability to play inside and out at 6'10" 240. Over 20 and 11 with 2.5 blocks this season.. You can tell already he's gonna hit the ground running in the NBA and give you production right away, yet you can also tell he's only scratching the surface of what he could eventually be. Another guy he reminds me of with the effective inside/outside game is Al Horford, a guy who's had a long, productive career in the NBA. I honestly think Oturu could be even better than Horford as Horford never showed a 3-pt stroke in college (he developed that after turning pro, about 6 years into the NBA), whereas Oturu was showing that this year in college, plus I think Oturu projects to be a even better rim protector.

I know some might say, well we already have Mitch. Ok, I like Mitch too, doesn't mean we couldn't us another talented big man in the middle to go along with Mitch. As good as Mitch is and i love him, this kid Oturu is much more well-rounded by comparsion, it's not even close. But he would be an excellent complement to Mitch -- we could use both. I just want the Knicks to do all the homework they can possibly do on this guy to see if he makes any sense at 6, esp. if guys like Wiseman and Toppin are gone by the time we pick. If for some reason he's still there at 25, he'd be an automatic for me. I might even try to package 25 and another asset(s) to slide up a few spots to make sure I get a crack at drafting him. He's all over the place depending on what mock you look at -- nbadraft.net has him going 8, while some drafts don't even have him getting drafted. I've watched all the video there is on this kid and to me, I tend to lean toward nbadraft.net's opinion of him.

Honest thoughts on Daniel Oturu guys. What's his ceiling in your opinion?


If they are going to go with a big at 6 they'd be much better off going with Onyeka Okongwu. Okongwu is a better defender and his defensive tools should translate real well at the next level. His fluidity overall and great timing also should translate well on the offensive end down the road against NBA defense.

Oturu won't last until the Clippers pick.

If the Knicks end up with the 6th overall pick I would not use it on Oturu.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#302 » by moocow007 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 2:27 pm

knickstape21 wrote:
Oscirus wrote:thoughts on who si has us taking currently?

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/03/31/nba-mock-draft-march-madness-canceled


Love the Okoro pick. BIG time potential if he progresses. No secret Auburn was a better team with him on the floor and they played him heavy minutes.


But that statement is true of just about everyone in the draft though.

You don't always want to just focus on college stats or how well a guy helps his college team win. Need to try to project whether a players strengths (not just stats and percentages in college) will actually translate to the NBA level. The reality is that for MOST college stars (i.e. just about everyone in the 1st round and even a good percentage of guys that go in the 2nd around are "stars" in college) their skills simply do not translate when they hit the NBA. A marksmen with a slow release (might be able to get shots off in college but won't be able to do so against longer, faster and better defenses in the NBA); a scorer or point with loose handles (might be able to create against most college defenders, but won't be able to do so against NBA defenses); a strong but short big with limited hops (might be able to bull college defenders but won't once he goes up against guys that are just as strong, more athletic and taller in the NBA); someone that performs poorly against top competition or high pressure games (would struggle when everything starts becoming much harder in the NBA); etc. Stuff that may not show up by looking at their college stats or their teams record with and without that player on the court.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#303 » by moocow007 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 2:29 pm

RHODEY wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
Juco24 wrote:Hayes is an interesting pick that seems to be gaining steam. Hayes scares me because his shot is weird and I don't foresee him as a knock down shooter. With that said, he checks the other boxes. Another concern is the that NY doesn't have a lot of patience and the media aren't kind. Kid seems to have tons of potential


my biggest concern about Hayes is he is a left handed guard who likes to drive to the rim. That’s more or less the way RJ plays. If he was right handed he would be perfect.......

So now we have RJ and Mitch as 1a, players, Frank as a good roleplayer, and Randle who is talented but not a roster fit. You should emphasize Best player available or focus on long term viability.


Left Smefty we need to go out and grab this kid. :D

Seriously we do..to me he's got the highest ceiling, best overall guard in this draft.





From a pure upside standpoint you may be right. He's Ball like (not quite yet) but doesn't have the (perceived/real) baggage and potential to rub people (including idealistic fans) the wrong way. His shooting form is also better than Ball's.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#304 » by CoreyVillains » Wed Apr 1, 2020 3:13 pm

Just uploaded my Obi Toppin prospect breakdown. Went deep on him, 11 minutes With commentary. He’s so much fun. I hope he ends up with a good pg so so badly.



And ICYMI my other prospect breakdowns:







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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#305 » by mpharris36 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 3:50 pm

moocow007 wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
my biggest concern about Hayes is he is a left handed guard who likes to drive to the rim. That’s more or less the way RJ plays. If he was right handed he would be perfect.......

So now we have RJ and Mitch as 1a, players, Frank as a good roleplayer, and Randle who is talented but not a roster fit. You should emphasize Best player available or focus on long term viability.


Left Smefty we need to go out and grab this kid. :D

Seriously we do..to me he's got the highest ceiling, best overall guard in this draft.





From a pure upside standpoint you may be right. He's Ball like (not quite yet) but doesn't have the (perceived/real) baggage and potential to rub people (including idealistic fans) the wrong way. His shooting form is also better than Ball's.


They are an interesting comparison because they are both big PG's, really young (both still 18).

-Both are good playmakers (I would give the edge to ball there)
-Killian has more turnover issues than Ball (because I think Ball handle is much more advanced)
-Scoring potential goes to Hayes (just because he can shoot of the dribble and has a really nice step back already)
-Killian also shot 88% from the line which usually does translate to being a good shooter
-Killian is a better defender (has better size to be able to switch onto bigger guys) more versatile

now the not basketball stuff:

Ball - you have to deal with Lavar (which while some of you don't think is an issue for a struggling team like the Knicks do they really need that distraction in the media capital of the world? This is not New Orleans where Lonzo is an after thought to the media. All it could take is one time Lavar goes of first take to criticize the coach about how we are playing Lamelo...its a ticking time bomb.

Hayes - His issue would probably guilty by association. He is an international player (french) to that fact. And we already know how polarizing Frank can be. So it would be a bit of a riskier pick to go the international route that isn't a "known name" like a Ball or Cole Anthony. But I do believe with his scoring potential he has a higher ceiling than Ball but he's more boom or bust than ball though.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#306 » by sol537 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 4:16 pm

If we get Hayes and Frank starts getting more consistent minutes, you know that duo will be called The French Connection =)
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#307 » by 8516knicks » Wed Apr 1, 2020 4:26 pm

NBC https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/03/30/2020-nba-mock-draft-opi-toppin-anthony-edwards/

has us taking 237. GRANT RILLER, Charleston

in the 2nd round.

Details: 23 years old, 6-foot-3, 190 lbs
Key Stats: 21.9 ppg, 3.9 apg, 36% 3PT

Riller is just a bucket-getter. He’s crafty off the bounce, he can finish around the basket and he is a capable three-point shooter. He also has positional size to play lead guard in the NBA. What’s the downside of drafting him in the second round and seeing what he develops into?020/03/30/2020-nba-mock-draft-opi-toppin-anthony-edwards/
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#308 » by mpharris36 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 4:31 pm

sol537 wrote:If we get Hayes and Frank starts getting more consistent minutes, you know that duo will be called The French Connection =)


I would be very interested to then trade Randle in some package for Batum (and possibly even bring in Tony Parker) as a assistant coach.

RJ speaks french too. There would be a nice little connection there.

Just need to get Mitch on some Rosetta Stone and he can get up to speed too :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#309 » by RHODEY » Wed Apr 1, 2020 4:47 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Left Smefty we need to go out and grab this kid. :D

Seriously we do..to me he's got the highest ceiling, best overall guard in this draft.





From a pure upside standpoint you may be right. He's Ball like (not quite yet) but doesn't have the (perceived/real) baggage and potential to rub people (including idealistic fans) the wrong way. His shooting form is also better than Ball's.


They are an interesting comparison because they are both big PG's, really young (both still 18).

-Both are good playmakers (I would give the edge to ball there)
-Killian has more turnover issues than Ball (because I think Ball handle is much more advanced)
-Scoring potential goes to Hayes (just because he can shoot of the dribble and has a really nice step back already)
-Killian also shot 88% from the line which usually does translate to being a good shooter
-Killian is a better defender (has better size to be able to switch onto bigger guys) more versatile

now the not basketball stuff:

Ball - you have to deal with Lavar (which while some of you don't think is an issue for a struggling team like the Knicks do they really need that distraction in the media capital of the world? This is not New Orleans where Lonzo is an after thought to the media. All it could take is one time Lavar goes of first take to criticize the coach about how we are playing Lamelo...its a ticking time bomb.

Hayes - His issue would probably guilty by association. He is an international player (french) to that fact. And we already know how polarizing Frank can be. So it would be a bit of a riskier pick to go the international route that isn't a "known name" like a Ball or Cole Anthony. But I do believe with his scoring potential he has a higher ceiling than Ball but he's more boom or bust than ball though.


Lavar got bot from First take because his comments were deemed "offensive" :noway:

I agree with your post, Hayes just checks off so many boxes and his negatives are mostly fixable/workable.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#310 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 5:39 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Left Smefty we need to go out and grab this kid. :D

Seriously we do..to me he's got the highest ceiling, best overall guard in this draft.





From a pure upside standpoint you may be right. He's Ball like (not quite yet) but doesn't have the (perceived/real) baggage and potential to rub people (including idealistic fans) the wrong way. His shooting form is also better than Ball's.


They are an interesting comparison because they are both big PG's, really young (both still 18).

-Both are good playmakers (I would give the edge to ball there)
-Killian has more turnover issues than Ball (because I think Ball handle is much more advanced)
-Scoring potential goes to Hayes (just because he can shoot of the dribble and has a really nice step back already)
-Killian also shot 88% from the line which usually does translate to being a good shooter
-Killian is a better defender (has better size to be able to switch onto bigger guys) more versatile

now the not basketball stuff:

Ball - you have to deal with Lavar (which while some of you don't think is an issue for a struggling team like the Knicks do they really need that distraction in the media capital of the world? This is not New Orleans where Lonzo is an after thought to the media. All it could take is one time Lavar goes of first take to criticize the coach about how we are playing Lamelo...its a ticking time bomb.

Hayes - His issue would probably guilty by association. He is an international player (french) to that fact. And we already know how polarizing Frank can be. So it would be a bit of a riskier pick to go the international route that isn't a "known name" like a Ball or Cole Anthony. But I do believe with his scoring potential he has a higher ceiling than Ball but he's more boom or bust than ball though.



I look forward to the eventual Knicks fans booed their draft pick news cycle if we draft Hayes :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#311 » by islanders11040 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 6:35 pm

Just noticed the Liberty got the #1 overall pick and this years #1 pick is one of the better ones in a while. A college superstar. Thats kinda exciting i guess.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#312 » by knickstape21 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 6:51 pm

Can we talk Cole Anthony a little bit more?

Almost seems like he’s surely to be a top candidate to be drafted 6th overall.

Do you picture him a better pro than college player? I think I do. His team spacing was horrific. Similar to RJ in college, honestly.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#313 » by malik959 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 6:59 pm

WargamesX wrote:
Oscirus wrote:thoughts on who si has us taking currently?

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/03/31/nba-mock-draft-march-madness-canceled


This is a horrible mock for the knicks..... we got two plus defenders in Frank and Mitch, and there in need of shooting and a PG but they has us taking a SF who can’t do anything well but defend. With both Hayes and Anthony still on the board.

Then with the Clippers pick they have us taking a flyer Backup C because “We can use some youth up front” like we don’t have Mitch on the roster......

I am pretty sure this person doesn’t know squat about the knicks. I am a little worried it had Atlanta taking Haliburton.

This is the first mock I’ve seen where Anthony Cole has fallen out of the lotto, Jalen Smith and Trey Jone are both out of the first round. Okoro would be a huge mistake for the Knicks with both Hayes and Cole still on the board. Okoro to me is very similar to RJ in a sense that there power is bullying their way to the hoop and their weaknesses is shooting so hard pass here.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#314 » by blanko » Wed Apr 1, 2020 7:51 pm

knickstape21 wrote:Can we talk Cole Anthony a little bit more?

Almost seems like he’s surely to be a top candidate to be drafted 6th overall.

Do you picture him a better pro than college player? I think I do. His team spacing was horrific. Similar to RJ in college, honestly.
And he was injured also. I really wouldn't mind getting gregs boy in the orange and blue. One thing about Cole that all scouting reports say.. he is a competitor.

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#315 » by Juco24 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 8:04 pm

blanko wrote:
knickstape21 wrote:Can we talk Cole Anthony a little bit more?

Almost seems like he’s surely to be a top candidate to be drafted 6th overall.

Do you picture him a better pro than college player? I think I do. His team spacing was horrific. Similar to RJ in college, honestly.
And he was injured also. I really wouldn't mind getting gregs boy in the orange and blue. One thing about Cole that all scouting reports say.. he is a competitor.

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Wasn't he like the #1 prospect entering UNC?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#316 » by WargamesX » Wed Apr 1, 2020 8:11 pm



Not enough Haliburton videos on here. In some mocks he has been compared to shai gilgeous-alexander/Malcolm Brogdon/Lonzo Ball in that he fits next to other ball handlers like say RJ and Frank. Hal has the same questions Shai had around his weight but he’s shown himself to be more efficient than Shai. The only main thing is he doesn’t attack the basket and RJ could do that all day if there were shooters around him.

It would be really interesting to have a rotation of

Frank/ Hal
RJ/ Hal

Most games and wouldn’t require the Knicks to screw over Franks development by getting a PG in the draft.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#317 » by malik959 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 11:48 pm

knickstape21 wrote:Can we talk Cole Anthony a little bit more?

Almost seems like he’s surely to be a top candidate to be drafted 6th overall.

Do you picture him a better pro than college player? I think I do. His team spacing was horrific. Similar to RJ in college, honestly.


Having Bacot and Brooks as your big men really hurt their team because they both are paint cloggers who don't come out unless it was to set a pick or to get away from 3 second penalties. It also didn't help that Black was a below average shooter (25% from 3, below 40% from 2) so kick outs were useless. Now Brooks however was nice on the pick and roll but if that wasn't there than this is where the ball would stop. There were times where you could tell Anthony was just trying to get his teammates involved and similar to Carmelo Anthony when he was here he would always end up with that last second heave with two men on him. As there are a lot of similarities to when Melo was here. When the team loses it's your fault no matter how bad your teammates are and it always looks bad for you because you always have to play hero.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#318 » by ILOVEIT » Thu Apr 2, 2020 1:41 am

mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
i think its not weak it just doesn't have a lot of superstar talent.

For example Paul Reed is expected to go in the 20's...how is he any different of a prospect than Brandon Clarke?

I havent seen Paul reed play before but I have heard of him. Ill get back to you on that

Just cause this draft lacks star talent is why it's weak imo. This draft is the draft of role players lol


starting/role players with the ability to be 2nd or 3rd best players on a core team if they pan out.

No Zion's, no Luka's, no high end talent. Agree there.


HOW...do you know? Wiseman could be at Zion level. Luka didn't dominate the world before he was drafted. Sort of weird how we talk about not having a Luke in the draft makes it weak...when no one really thought he was going to be that great BEFORE he became great.

This draft could end up being one of the better...There are 4 guys at the top that could be all-stars. We are all just sheep...there is no reason to think that this draft couldn't end up being a very good draft.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#319 » by blanko » Thu Apr 2, 2020 3:00 am

ILOVEIT wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:I havent seen Paul reed play before but I have heard of him. Ill get back to you on that

Just cause this draft lacks star talent is why it's weak imo. This draft is the draft of role players lol


starting/role players with the ability to be 2nd or 3rd best players on a core team if they pan out.

No Zion's, no Luka's, no high end talent. Agree there.


HOW...do you know? Wiseman could be at Zion level. Luka didn't dominate the world before he was drafted. Sort of weird how we talk about not having a Luke in the draft makes it weak...when no one really thought he was going to be that great BEFORE he became great.

This draft could end up being one of the better...There are 4 guys at the top that could be all-stars. We are all just sheep...there is no reason to think that this draft couldn't end up being a very good draft.
Because wiseman is a poor man's ayton.

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#320 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Apr 2, 2020 3:38 am

WargamesX wrote:

Not enough Haliburton videos on here. In some mocks he has been compared to shai gilgeous-alexander/Malcolm Brogdon/Lonzo Ball in that he fits next to other ball handlers like say RJ and Frank. Hal has the same questions Shai had around his weight but he’s shown himself to be more efficient than Shai. The only main thing is he doesn’t attack the basket and RJ could do that all day if there were shooters around him.

It would be really interesting to have a rotation of

Frank/ Hal
RJ/ Hal

Most games and wouldn’t require the Knicks to screw over Franks development by getting a PG in the draft.


Frank
Hal
RJ
Wood
Mitch

:D
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