PG Knicks @ Nuggets - 4 L's in a Row

[robillionaire]

Cause the same reason Knick fans hated Ewing towards the end of his time here, the same reason that Knick fans hated Carmelo Anthony, the same reason Knicks fans hate Randle...

Cause Ewing wasn't able to be this man...


Cause Marbury wasn't able to be this man...


Cause Carmelo wasn't able to be this man...


Cause Randle isn't able to be this man...

...or this man...

...or....

eh i think people hate randle because he hoodwinked the org. a lot of us hated randle before last season for exactly the same reasons we hate him now. this is part of why i blame him more than i blame thibs or the FO. it's rare for an org to make a ruthless move like calling randle's bluff after a storybook season. even i, a fan on a message board, felt the need to tiptoe around my suggestions that we trade him at a high.

i'll give them til the end of the offseason to pivot out of the mistake

People hate these guys because they aren't good enough to do what they want this team to do. And when that player isn't good enough, they pick him apart (like he's the only one that has flaws) cause they need some way to rationalize why that player isn't good enough...other than just because he's just not that good.

People can spin it however they want (personality this, dislikable that), at the end of the day none of these guys were good enough to take what for the most part were just gosh darn awful teams to anything. Ewing was the only guy if you look at it that actually had a consistently competitive team around him and he got the farthest. Carmelo was almost good enough in 2012-2013 when they actually put a team together that made sense and fit what he can and can't do and needed.

Michael Jordan was the biggest a-hole on the planet, gambled (likely on his own games and other games he played in...things that got Pete Rose banned) and you think Bulls fans cared about any of that? No. The Bad Boy Pistons and Red Auerbach Celtics championships teams had some of the most dislikeable and despicable players on the planet at the time and you think Pistons and Celtics fans cared? No they didn't. Winning cures all things. What fans care about is winning. And that is what these guys have failed to do...lead this team to something meaningful.

Now is that the fault of the player? I can't see how you can possibly blame a player for being not good enough to be able to take crap and win with it. The player doesn't put the team together and unless you are that MJ or Lebron level type player you need a team with some serious talent and balance to win. So unless we want to accuse Randle for putting this team together (I mean we already blamed Carmelo Anthony the GM for that Denver trade right?) it's the fault of the front office for not being able to build a team. And it's the fault of the fans for having unrealistic expectations.

Randle didn't really "hoodwink" anyone though. Folks that were expecting too much (remember the "MVP" chants last season? I was lol'ing and eye-rolling when fans were chanting that cause I knew he wasn't an MVP caliber player, not even close...and yet...fans...gotta love them) and that set unrealistic expectations hoodwinked themselves when these guys failed to do what they should have never been expected to be able to do. He's just not good enough to take one of the least talented teams in the NBA that doesn't have a PG (not even one that would be the backup PG on any of the other 29 teams).

Sounds about right, I doubt many will agree with it because it would require introspection but that’s kinda how it is

[Deeeez Knicks]

Cause the same reason Knick fans hated Ewing towards the end of his time here, the same reason that Knick fans hated Carmelo Anthony, the same reason Knicks fans hate Randle...

Cause Ewing wasn't able to be this man...


Cause Marbury wasn't able to be this man...


Cause Carmelo wasn't able to be this man...


Cause Randle isn't able to be this man...

...or this man...

...or....

eh i think people hate randle because he hoodwinked the org. a lot of us hated randle before last season for exactly the same reasons we hate him now. this is part of why i blame him more than i blame thibs or the FO. it's rare for an org to make a ruthless move like calling randle's bluff after a storybook season. even i, a fan on a message board, felt the need to tiptoe around my suggestions that we trade him at a high.

i'll give them til the end of the offseason to pivot out of the mistake

People hate these guys because they aren't good enough to do what they want this team to do. And when that player isn't good enough, they pick him apart (like he's the only one that has flaws) cause they need some way to rationalize why that player isn't good enough...other than just because he's just not that good.

People can spin it however they want (personality this, dislikable that), at the end of the day none of these guys were good enough to take what for the most part were just gosh darn awful teams to anything. Ewing was the only guy if you look at it that actually had a consistently competitive team around him and he got the farthest. Carmelo was almost good enough in 2012-2013 when they actually put a team together that made sense and fit what he can and can't do and needed.

Michael Jordan was the biggest a-hole on the planet, gambled (likely on his own games and other games he played in...things that got Pete Rose banned) and you think Bulls fans cared about any of that? No. The Bad Boy Pistons and Red Auerbach Celtics championships teams had some of the most dislikeable and despicable players on the planet at the time and you think Pistons and Celtics fans cared? No they didn't. Winning cures all things. What fans care about is winning. And that is what these guys have failed to do...lead this team to something meaningful.

Now is that the fault of the player? I can't see how you can possibly blame a player for being not good enough to be able to take crap and win with it. The player doesn't put the team together and unless you are that MJ or Lebron level type player you need a team with some serious talent and balance to win. So unless we want to accuse Randle for putting this team together (I mean we already blamed Carmelo Anthony the GM for that Denver trade right?) it's the fault of the front office for not being able to build a team. And it's the fault of the fans for having unrealistic expectations.

Randle didn't really "hoodwink" anyone though. Folks that were expecting too much (remember the "MVP" chants last season? I was lol'ing and eye-rolling when fans were chanting that cause I knew he wasn't an MVP caliber player, not even close...and yet...fans...gotta love them) and that set unrealistic expectations hoodwinked themselves when these guys failed to do what they should have never been expected to be able to do. He's just not good enough to take one of the least talented teams in the NBA that doesn't have a PG (not even one that would be the backup PG on any of the other 29 teams).

Knicks fans can be brutal. And some of the hate is overboard and unnecessary

But none of that changes that the extension for Randle was a bad idea and Knicks need to move on. That is mostly on managment and not all Randles fault (although his behavior and effort for most of the season is also unacceptable).

[NowWHYcee7]

By golly, all we need to do is cheer for the team and we will be great. Let's all smile, hold hands and sing kumbaya at the game. There will be puppy dogs, rainbows and championships if we as fans can just get it together

You’re being tongue in cheek but the fans can be a big reason why players decide to stay and/or come here.

Fans like to take credit for being electric and inspiring athletes when they play well and feed off that energy, but those same fans will never take the credit when it works the other way. Then all of a sudden we will get into narratives about money, “the Mecca,” and how so and so is just not “built” to be here. Yeah, like a woman who may not be built to stay with a guy who is beating her ass every night. Sure.

Nobody is saying we need to coddle these players, but they are human beings like us. We can criticize players without going off the rails. When we go from chanting MVP for a guy one season then try to run him out of town the next, something is wrong.

[moocow007]

I predict you will recycle every possible permutation of "You're mad because he isn't MJ/Lebron" arguments for the next ten years

Try something else. Really, it's not working

It isn't working cause you aren't willing to accept that that's the bottom line.

For you and maybe a few others

Throw up a poll that asks:

Are you disappointed in Randle because:

(a) He's not as good as last season
(b) He hoodwinked us
(c) He's a jerk
(d) He's lazy
(e) He's a ball hog
(f) He's a stat padder
(g) He's a choke artist
(h) He's disrespectful of the fans, coaches and his teammates
(i) He's not Lebron

and you'll be in a tiny minority

Saying someone is disparaged because they are not Lebron or MJ is one of the all-time worst arguments ever used on this forum

a) Randle was never as good as last season and no one should have expected him to be as good as last season this season (the biggest fear for me last season was the Knicks maxing him out cause he's not near a max player)
b) he didn't hoodwink anyone, fans who thought he was better than he is hoodwinked themselves ("MVP!!!", "MVP!!!" at the garden last season right?)
c) you mean he's like a good percentage of professional athletes?
d) he's leading the team in points, rebounds, assists and minutes...what you really mean is that he's not good enough to be doing that and for this team to succeed.
e) who do you want him to pass to? who is the PG that can allow him and the Knicks to not have to run the ball through his hands? who is allowing him to touch the ball so much? He's doing the same thing ("ball hogging") this season that he was doing last season when fans were unrealistically all snuggling up in his jock.
f) so you want someone else to stat pad instead? what does that do? wait...so what you want him to do is not only score and pass and rebound and defend but also get his teammates involved and make them better? Kinda like with a guy named Lebron would do?
g) because he's not good enough to be what fans want him to be?
h) do you really believe that what Randle did with that laptop in the heat of the moment is something that is so rare among professional athletes? flipping the bird to the fans? that's been his biggest mistake that he could actually control cause that doesn't require talent (which he doesn't have enough of to do what you guys want him to be able to do)...
i) he's not even Anthony Davis or Chris Bosh...and yet...because he's not that good, you guys want to vilify him and ship him out of town for any tom, dick or CJ McCollum...and then when a guy like CJ McCollum can't pull more talent than he has out his butthole we'll rinse and repeat the same silliness overreactions based on unrealistic expectations?

[moocow007]

eh i think people hate randle because he hoodwinked the org. a lot of us hated randle before last season for exactly the same reasons we hate him now. this is part of why i blame him more than i blame thibs or the FO. it's rare for an org to make a ruthless move like calling randle's bluff after a storybook season. even i, a fan on a message board, felt the need to tiptoe around my suggestions that we trade him at a high.

i'll give them til the end of the offseason to pivot out of the mistake

People hate these guys because they aren't good enough to do what they want this team to do. And when that player isn't good enough, they pick him apart (like he's the only one that has flaws) cause they need some way to rationalize why that player isn't good enough...other than just because he's just not that good.

People can spin it however they want (personality this, dislikable that), at the end of the day none of these guys were good enough to take what for the most part were just gosh darn awful teams to anything. Ewing was the only guy if you look at it that actually had a consistently competitive team around him and he got the farthest. Carmelo was almost good enough in 2012-2013 when they actually put a team together that made sense and fit what he can and can't do and needed.

Michael Jordan was the biggest a-hole on the planet, gambled (likely on his own games and other games he played in...things that got Pete Rose banned) and you think Bulls fans cared about any of that? No. The Bad Boy Pistons and Red Auerbach Celtics championships teams had some of the most dislikeable and despicable players on the planet at the time and you think Pistons and Celtics fans cared? No they didn't. Winning cures all things. What fans care about is winning. And that is what these guys have failed to do...lead this team to something meaningful.

Now is that the fault of the player? I can't see how you can possibly blame a player for being not good enough to be able to take crap and win with it. The player doesn't put the team together and unless you are that MJ or Lebron level type player you need a team with some serious talent and balance to win. So unless we want to accuse Randle for putting this team together (I mean we already blamed Carmelo Anthony the GM for that Denver trade right?) it's the fault of the front office for not being able to build a team. And it's the fault of the fans for having unrealistic expectations.

Randle didn't really "hoodwink" anyone though. Folks that were expecting too much (remember the "MVP" chants last season? I was lol'ing and eye-rolling when fans were chanting that cause I knew he wasn't an MVP caliber player, not even close...and yet...fans...gotta love them) and that set unrealistic expectations hoodwinked themselves when these guys failed to do what they should have never been expected to be able to do. He's just not good enough to take one of the least talented teams in the NBA that doesn't have a PG (not even one that would be the backup PG on any of the other 29 teams).

Knicks fans can be brutal. And some of the hate is overboard and unnecessary

But none of that changes that the extension for Randle was a bad idea and Knicks need to move on. That is mostly on managment and not all Randles fault (although his behavior and effort for most of the season is also unacceptable).

Oh I was scared to death that the Knicks would give Randle a max contract. That extension was a huge sigh of relief more so because it wasn't the max. But even then I was tentative about it. That's still a lot of money. And I did not have any confidence that this front office would be able to put a team together around Randle to cover all his warts and the fact that he's not good enough to carry a team all by himself. That was my fear and why I kept pushing for the Knicks to add top tier talent over more role players (including bringing back their own guys). You've seen me do this. It's because I knew well and good that a team where Randle would continue to have to do what he was asked to do last season was doomed to fail. And here we are...

[robillionaire]

To the “not Lebron” point. I strongly believe even if we drafted Lebron he would have left. Just like he left Cleveland. Except he wouldn’t have come back because it’s not his hometown. And we would have booed him out of town when he repeatedly came up short like he did for the first 8 years of his career. I doubt we have the patience to deal with someone for 9 years. And his personality and attitude would be sharply criticized. He probably knows all this too which is why he didn’t come here.

[j4remi]

I think the real error here is in thinking that Knicks fans wouldn't give Lebron the same ****...

[robillionaire]

I think the real error here is in thinking that Knicks fans wouldn't give Lebron the same ****...

Exactly what I said above

[HEZI]

Moocow just wants “talent” and thinks shooting is overrated. His idea is to just throw a team of big names together and hope it will work so basically he wants us to have that Lakers team

[HEZI]

I think the real error here is in thinking that Knicks fans wouldn't give Lebron the same ****...

If he played like Randle of course he would

[moocow007]

To the “not Lebron” point. I strongly believe even if we drafted Lebron he would have left. Just like he left Cleveland. Except he wouldn’t have come back because it’s not his hometown. And we would have booed him out of town when he repeatedly came up short like he did for the first 8 years of his career. I doubt we have the patience to deal with someone for 9 years

And the biggest reason for that is because this organization has failed to show that they have the wits to be able to build and sustain a top caliber team. The closest the Knicks managed to having a competent front office decision maker was Dave Checketts who left that role in 1998. And even Checketts wasn't what I would call a mastermind of team building when you look at the top teams in the NBA during that time frame and since. That's the biggest problem with this organization bar none. Not the players, not the coaches (and we've obviously had some absolute doozies in both those areas as well). For a team that has all the possible attractiveness that any player can ask for (bright lights, deep pockets, night life, etc.) it all boils down to their front office not being viewed as a competent one and often viewed as a comedy act.

[moocow007]

To the “not Lebron” point. I strongly believe even if we drafted Lebron he would have left. Just like he left Cleveland. Except he wouldn’t have come back because it’s not his hometown. And we would have booed him out of town when he repeatedly came up short like he did for the first 8 years of his career. I doubt we have the patience to deal with someone for 9 years

And the biggest reason for that is because this organization has failed to show that they have the wits to be able to build and sustain a top caliber team. The closest the Knicks managed to having a competent front office decision maker was Dave Checketts who left that role in 1998 (we're talking about almost a quarter century of futility). And even Checketts wasn't what I would call a mastermind of team building when you look at the top teams in the NBA during that time frame and since (if we want to talk about sad). That's the biggest problem with this organization bar none. Not the players, not the coaches (and we've obviously had some absolute doozies in both those areas as well). For a team that has all the possible attractiveness that any player can ask for (bright lights, deep pockets, night life, etc.) it all boils down to their front office not being viewed as a competent one and often viewed as a comedy act...which then "grooms" a fanbase that has so much pent up angst and frustration that if you can't perform miracles (see my Lebron comments) it'll likely turn very ugly for you (see Ewing, see Marbury, see Carmelo and now we're seeing Randle). That's why players don't want to come here and those that are here don't want to stay here. All of which is about that whole top franchise dynamic and the failure to do so.

[Deeeez Knicks]

By golly, all we need to do is cheer for the team and we will be great. Let's all smile, hold hands and sing kumbaya at the game. There will be puppy dogs, rainbows and championships if we as fans can just get it together

You’re being tongue in cheek but the fans can be a big reason why players decide to stay and/or come here.

Fans like to take credit for being electric and inspiring athletes when they play well and feed off that energy, but those same fans will never take the credit when it works the other way. Then all of a sudden we will get into narratives about money, “the Mecca,” and how so and so is just not “built” to be here. Yeah, like a woman who may not be built to stay with a guy who is beating her ass every night. Sure.

Nobody is saying we need to coddle these players, but they are human beings like us. We can criticize players without going off the rails. When we go from chanting MVP for a guy one season then try to run him out of town the next, something is wrong.

Randle brought some of it on himself and made it worse flipping the fans off. If you play with 0 effort you are going to get booed. I dont think that's outrageous. Its a part of the game and Knicks fans arent the only team with crazy fans that boo. Maybe we are tougher, but there are boos heard all around sports. There's a line that shouldnt be crossed and not condoning all behavior. But its all in the game. Players are paid to play in front of an audience and when you play bad you will get negative reactions and when you play well you will get positive reactions. Last year the Knicks were cheered all season when they played well. This year its a different story cause they are playing poorly and there are times when there is 0 effort.

This all really has 0 to do with the fans. Management has been horrible and made some awful decisions. Thats why they suck. So yeah, management deserve most of the blame. But they are hiding in the shadows. The players hear it cause they are on a stage.

[robillionaire]

To the “not Lebron” point. I strongly believe even if we drafted Lebron he would have left. Just like he left Cleveland. Except he wouldn’t have come back because it’s not his hometown. And we would have booed him out of town when he repeatedly came up short like he did for the first 8 years of his career. I doubt we have the patience to deal with someone for 9 years

And the biggest reason for that is because this organization has failed to show that they have the wits to be able to build and sustain a top caliber team. The closest the Knicks managed to having a competent front office decision maker was Dave Checketts who left that role in 1998. And even Checketts wasn't what I would call a mastermind of team building when you look at the top teams in the NBA during that time frame and since. That's the biggest problem with this organization bar none. Not the players, not the coaches (and we've obviously had some absolute doozies in both those areas as well). For a team that has all the possible attractiveness that any player can ask for (bright lights, deep pockets, night life, etc.) it all boils down to their front office not being viewed as a competent one and often viewed as a comedy act.

We are going to put this to the test soon. People like RJ now. We will see if it stays that way when he’s on a max extension making 30M a season (because people care so much about dolan’s money) and when he can’t carry a talent devoid roster year over year. And people boo the team and he takes it personally. KP saw all this coming too because he saw what was happening with Melo and he demanded a trade. RJ sees what’s happening with Randle and what his future is if he’s not MJ. And if we have the next shiny new toy on a rookie deal god help him

[Clyde_Style]

It isn't working cause you aren't willing to accept that that's the bottom line.

For you and maybe a few others

Throw up a poll that asks:

Are you disappointed in Randle because:

(a) He's not as good as last season
(b) He hoodwinked us
(c) He's a jerk
(d) He's lazy
(e) He's a ball hog
(f) He's a stat padder
(g) He's a choke artist
(h) He's disrespectful of the fans, coaches and his teammates
(i) He's not Lebron

and you'll be in a tiny minority

Saying someone is disparaged because they are not Lebron or MJ is one of the all-time worst arguments ever used on this forum

a) Randle was never as good as last season and no one should have expected him to be as good as last season this season (the biggest fear for me last season was the Knicks maxing him out cause he's not near a max player)
b) he didn't hoodwink anyone, fans who thought he was better than he is hoodwinked themselves ("MVP!!!", "MVP!!!" at the garden last season right?)
c) you mean he's like a good percentage of professional athletes?
d) he's leading the team in points, rebounds, assists and minutes...what you really mean is that he's not good enough to be doing that and for this team to succeed.
e) who do you want him to pass to? who is the PG that can allow him and the Knicks to not have to run the ball through his hands? who is allowing him to touch the ball so much? He's doing the same thing ("ball hogging") this season that he was doing last season when fans were unrealistically all snuggling up in his jock.
f) so you want someone else to stat pad instead? what does that do? wait...so what you want him to do is not only score and pass and rebound and defend but also get his teammates involved and make them better? Kinda like with a guy named Lebron would do?
g) because he's not good enough to be what fans want him to be?
h) do you really believe that what Randle did with that laptop in the heat of the moment is something that is so rare among professional athletes? flipping the bird to the fans? that's been his biggest mistake that he could actually control cause that doesn't require talent (which he doesn't have enough of to do what you guys want him to be able to do)...
i) he's not even Anthony Davis or Chris Bosh...and yet...because he's not that good, you guys want to vilify him and ship him out of town for any tom, dick or CJ McCollum...and then when a guy like CJ McCollum can't pull more talent than he has out his butthole we'll rinse and repeat the same silliness overreactions based on unrealistic expectations?

All this shows me is you'll find every possible excuse for Randle to position him as the victim of the fans

I came out against the extension from the beginning, because I said he was mentally weak and a choke artist. He was epically bad in the ATL series and it has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the team being bad. He did that all by himself and it has zip to do with comparisons to Lebron or MJ

I'm just shocked you keep using that tired excuse of an argument to explain fan sentiments. It squarely pits you against most of us because you're basically saying we're too stupid to objectively analyze Randle for his actual flaws due to our inflated demands that a player be MJ or Lebron. That's ridiculous. My expectations have nothing to do with it. MJ and Lebron have zip to do with the ongoing topic of Randle's failures as a player and a teammate this season

[moocow007]

To the “not Lebron” point. I strongly believe even if we drafted Lebron he would have left. Just like he left Cleveland. Except he wouldn’t have come back because it’s not his hometown. And we would have booed him out of town when he repeatedly came up short like he did for the first 8 years of his career. I doubt we have the patience to deal with someone for 9 years

And the biggest reason for that is because this organization has failed to show that they have the wits to be able to build and sustain a top caliber team. The closest the Knicks managed to having a competent front office decision maker was Dave Checketts who left that role in 1998. And even Checketts wasn't what I would call a mastermind of team building when you look at the top teams in the NBA during that time frame and since. That's the biggest problem with this organization bar none. Not the players, not the coaches (and we've obviously had some absolute doozies in both those areas as well). For a team that has all the possible attractiveness that any player can ask for (bright lights, deep pockets, night life, etc.) it all boils down to their front office not being viewed as a competent one and often viewed as a comedy act.

We are going to put this to the test soon. People like RJ now. We will see if it stays that way when he’s on a max extension making 30M a season (because people care so much about dolan’s money) and when he can’t carry a talent devoid roster year over year. And people boo the team and he takes it personally. KP saw all this coming too because he saw what was happening with Melo and he demanded a trade. RJ sees what’s happening with Randle and what his future is if he’s not MJ

Oh if the Knicks were to somehow trade Randle the mantle of "Mr. Impossible" will be passed to someone else. If they move Randle for another "star" type player that that player will take on that mantle (if the Knicks had moved Randle to Portland for CJ McCollum, then CJ McCollum would be the next guy to be flambed and broiled). If they move Randle just to get his contract off the books, then, yeah, RJ Barrett will likely be the new owner of it. At which point, let's see how quickly things turn bad if this FO can't build a team around that player.

[Deeeez Knicks]

People hate these guys because they aren't good enough to do what they want this team to do. And when that player isn't good enough, they pick him apart (like he's the only one that has flaws) cause they need some way to rationalize why that player isn't good enough...other than just because he's just not that good.

People can spin it however they want (personality this, dislikable that), at the end of the day none of these guys were good enough to take what for the most part were just gosh darn awful teams to anything. Ewing was the only guy if you look at it that actually had a consistently competitive team around him and he got the farthest. Carmelo was almost good enough in 2012-2013 when they actually put a team together that made sense and fit what he can and can't do and needed.

Michael Jordan was the biggest a-hole on the planet, gambled (likely on his own games and other games he played in...things that got Pete Rose banned) and you think Bulls fans cared about any of that? No. The Bad Boy Pistons and Red Auerbach Celtics championships teams had some of the most dislikeable and despicable players on the planet at the time and you think Pistons and Celtics fans cared? No they didn't. Winning cures all things. What fans care about is winning. And that is what these guys have failed to do...lead this team to something meaningful.

Now is that the fault of the player? I can't see how you can possibly blame a player for being not good enough to be able to take crap and win with it. The player doesn't put the team together and unless you are that MJ or Lebron level type player you need a team with some serious talent and balance to win. So unless we want to accuse Randle for putting this team together (I mean we already blamed Carmelo Anthony the GM for that Denver trade right?) it's the fault of the front office for not being able to build a team. And it's the fault of the fans for having unrealistic expectations.

Randle didn't really "hoodwink" anyone though. Folks that were expecting too much (remember the "MVP" chants last season? I was lol'ing and eye-rolling when fans were chanting that cause I knew he wasn't an MVP caliber player, not even close...and yet...fans...gotta love them) and that set unrealistic expectations hoodwinked themselves when these guys failed to do what they should have never been expected to be able to do. He's just not good enough to take one of the least talented teams in the NBA that doesn't have a PG (not even one that would be the backup PG on any of the other 29 teams).

Knicks fans can be brutal. And some of the hate is overboard and unnecessary

But none of that changes that the extension for Randle was a bad idea and Knicks need to move on. That is mostly on managment and not all Randles fault (although his behavior and effort for most of the season is also unacceptable).

Oh I was scared to death that the Knicks would give Randle a max contract. That extension was a huge sigh of relief more so because it wasn't the max. But even then I was tentative about it. That's still a lot of money. And I did not have any confidence that this front office would be able to put a team together around Randle to cover all his warts and the fact that he's not good enough to carry a team all by himself. That was my fear and why I kept pushing for the Knicks to add top tier talent over more role players (including bringing back their own guys). You've seen me do this. It's because I knew well and good that a team where Randle would continue to have to do what he was asked to do last season was doomed to fail. And here we are...

My biggest issue with Randle is his game is a bad fit next to RJ. It kinda worked last year but got really exposed in the playoffs. Randle's shooting seemed like a big difference and if he can't shoot like he did last year theres little chance it works out. We should be moving in a different direction. We are gonna have to pay RJ soon, and really dont see how we build a contending team with Randle and RJ making big money like that.

If you put Randle in the right role, on the right team he could do well. Its just a very specific team build, or maybe as a 6th man. Just cant see him working out really well here long term. Need to move on as a buisness decision

[Deeeez Knicks]

To the “not Lebron” point. I strongly believe even if we drafted Lebron he would have left. Just like he left Cleveland. Except he wouldn’t have come back because it’s not his hometown. And we would have booed him out of town when he repeatedly came up short like he did for the first 8 years of his career. I doubt we have the patience to deal with someone for 9 years

And the biggest reason for that is because this organization has failed to show that they have the wits to be able to build and sustain a top caliber team. The closest the Knicks managed to having a competent front office decision maker was Dave Checketts who left that role in 1998. And even Checketts wasn't what I would call a mastermind of team building when you look at the top teams in the NBA during that time frame and since. That's the biggest problem with this organization bar none. Not the players, not the coaches (and we've obviously had some absolute doozies in both those areas as well). For a team that has all the possible attractiveness that any player can ask for (bright lights, deep pockets, night life, etc.) it all boils down to their front office not being viewed as a competent one and often viewed as a comedy act.

We are going to put this to the test soon. People like RJ now. We will see if it stays that way when he’s on a max extension making 30M a season (because people care so much about dolan’s money) and when he can’t carry a talent devoid roster year over year. And people boo the team and he takes it personally. KP saw all this coming too because he saw what was happening with Melo and he demanded a trade. RJ sees what’s happening with Randle and what his future is if he’s not MJ. And if we have the next shiny new toy on a rookie deal god help him

GTFOH being so hypocritical....You already bash RJ more then anyone

[G_K_F]

Once again, stop going for the same tired "it's the fans' fault" narrative.

Absolving ownership of responsibility for this franchise is sad.

The Yankees played under intense scrutiny from the owner, fans and media and won 5 championships between 1996 and 2009.

The Giants won 2 championships in a 4 year period playing under the same fans.

The 90's Knicks played with a much more vocal fanbase and intense media and were a perennial contender - including one good Starks night away from a title.

Stop the dumb narrative about the fans. The fans will let you build if there is something to build towards to. The fans are patient if they're seeing progress and development. The Knicks of the last 21 years have not done any of things. Literally, the Knicks have sucked for 21 years - over 300 games under .500 as a franchise under Dolan's ownership - and the biggest thing they can show from this is Carmelo Anthony, who they traded their entire roster for. Have not drafted well, have not developed anyone of note, have not made any good meaningful trades (no, I don't mean Mook for a late 1st - talking about real trades), have had a laundry list of horrible and retread head coaches and have spent more time worrying about what the media and others like Marv Albert and Charles Oakley say about them than actually winning games.

The Knicks as a franchise is the worst run in professional. The worst run in professional sports. I know the Kings exist, I know the Lions exist, I know the Browns exist, I know the Pittsburgh Pirates exist, I know other exist. But in American professional sports there is no team that is worse than the New York Knicks after 21 years. In the NBA, only the Timberwolves have a worse winning percentage in the last 20 years and they actually are finally building something after - wait for it - they were sold to another owner. Making bad decisions has nothing to do with the fans. The fans have been there selling out the Garden under some of the absolute most putrid years of the franchise. Show that you can actually build a foundation to a winning team for once - just one time - and you won't get the backlash that you do.

[Clyde_Style]

And the biggest reason for that is because this organization has failed to show that they have the wits to be able to build and sustain a top caliber team. The closest the Knicks managed to having a competent front office decision maker was Dave Checketts who left that role in 1998. And even Checketts wasn't what I would call a mastermind of team building when you look at the top teams in the NBA during that time frame and since. That's the biggest problem with this organization bar none. Not the players, not the coaches (and we've obviously had some absolute doozies in both those areas as well). For a team that has all the possible attractiveness that any player can ask for (bright lights, deep pockets, night life, etc.) it all boils down to their front office not being viewed as a competent one and often viewed as a comedy act.

We are going to put this to the test soon. People like RJ now. We will see if it stays that way when he’s on a max extension making 30M a season (because people care so much about dolan’s money) and when he can’t carry a talent devoid roster year over year. And people boo the team and he takes it personally. KP saw all this coming too because he saw what was happening with Melo and he demanded a trade. RJ sees what’s happening with Randle and what his future is if he’s not MJ. And if we have the next shiny new toy on a rookie deal god help him

GTFOH being so hypocritical....You already bash RJ more then anyone

Guy is going to need a ski mask with two mouth holes