PG: Knicks + Denny's Grand Slam The Jazz

[Reign23]

and thibs making adjustments? what a time to be alive

[TrueWarrior]

Just because none of our young guys project to be MVP candidates, doesnt mean they still cant be good-great starters. That still has a lot of value.

Brunson
Grimes / IQ
Cam / RJ?
Obi
Mitch / Hart or Sims

This can be a very nice supporting cast around a superstar, and there are only a handful of actual superstars in the league so constantly crying that we dont have one is silly.

Cam and Obi have high potential to my eyes though. They have all the tools and seem to be figuring things out now. I like Grimes a lot as well (if he ever plays again). We just dont prioritize them because Randle and RJ got the bag.

Posters saying this is the most hopeless they’ve ever felt makes no sense, since we have a solid group of young players and a surplus of picks. We just need to get rid of Thibs, Julius, and Evan and then we can start building something fun. Only need one break or to hit on one draft pick, and Ill continue to be optimistic about it happening one day. We’re f*ckin due.

[Clyde_Style]

And all of them were **** point guards

I honestly don't know which pick is more egregious.

On one hand we have picking Knox (the 4th best prospect on his college team at best if I don't count PJ Washington) over Mikal Bridges (fresh off a national championship) and SGA (easily the best prospect on the same team Knox was on in college).

On the other hand we have picking Obi over Hali while having a future All NBA guy at PF and the worst starting PG in the league.

At least with Frank he played a position of need, even though I have always been against drafting guys that can't break a rotation in the euros in the lottery.

All brutal.

I think of 2018 as the worst. Obi had an argument for BPA and is in fact a useful player. D Mitchell wasn't really considered that high by a number of teams though we definitely got the worst guy in Frank's range.

With 2018 there were so many better options, Knox was such a huge question mark, and PG was still a position of need. Then either Bridges, not knowing what we know now about Miles. Just a disaster.

You could make a flow chart diagramming the consequences of this org NEVER getting a PG

So many bad decisions have been made because of this bizarre refusal to solidify the most important position on the team

[E-Balla]

Been saying it for two years!! Get Randle and Evan the fuq outta here! Both are trash and hurt the team. Randle walks around with no energy and it hurts the entire team when he is isn't shooting like Steph Curry. He's a losing player with a low IQ.

Randle slowed RJ and Obi development and Fournier slowing IQ, Grimes, and Cam development.

very underrated post

I mean it's just wrong. The idea that vets don't help young players is weird to me. They play a lot more in practice than they do actual games. Fournier has been a vet for a long ass time if you think he didn't help those 3 get accumulated to the NBA you don't understand how much off the court stuff matters.

And Obi is actually learning to play next to Julius which might be great for his development. I don't think he develops his shot and ability to rotate inside the paint as much if he wasn't preparing to play next to Randle. RJ definitely has had his development halted but to me that's mostly because he needed to be forced to actually use his point abilities to pass. Not necessarily about touches as much as it's about the nature of the touches he gets.

[Clyde Frazier]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Ghetto Gospel]

Thibs ran a 9 man rotation yesterday. I think it improved our performance. It gives more time to players to heat up and enter the game. It could be a tendency to forget the 10-11 man rotation we were playing.

running a 9 man rotation (playoff rotation) in the regular season is peak thibs

[E-Balla]

Just because none of our young guys project to be MVP candidates, doesnt mean they still cant be good-great starters. That still has a lot of value.

Brunson
Grimes / IQ
Cam / RJ?
Obi
Mitch / Hart or Sims

This can be a very nice supporting cast around a superstar, and there are only a handful of actual superstars in the league so constantly crying that we dont have one is silly.

Cam and Obi have high potential to my eyes though. They have all the tools and seem to be figuring things out now. I like Grimes a lot as well (if he ever plays again). We just dont prioritize them because Randle and RJ got the bag.

Posters saying this is the most hopeless they’ve ever felt makes no sense, since we have a solid group of young players and a surplus of picks. We just need to get rid of Thibs, Julius, and Evan and then we can start building something fun. Just need one break, and Ill continue to be optimistic about it happening one day. We’re due.

Getting rid of Thibs would be the worst decision you could ever make as a team hoping to develop young talent. His track record here, Boston, and in Chicago speaks for itself.

[Reign23]

I don't know about you all, but I enjoyed this a lot

[G_K_F]

If this team trades Randle and Rose then they'll become much more interesting to watch. Right now it's still a snoozefest watching Randle and RJ bricking every game. Don't really care about Fournier since he seems to be out of the rotation.

Get rid of Randle, start Obi, test the market for RJ/Robinson/Quickley, get Grimes back in the rotation (if he's not permanently injured) and go from there.

I have no care at all for Cam Reddish. He is what he is - streaky black hole with poor decision making. Need to see more of Grimes since this is the guy we reportedly turned down a perennial All Star for.

If you're running out a lineup of Hartenstein/Sims, Obi, RJ, Grimes, Brunson then that's a lottery team with terrible defense but it will be a much faster, more athletic and more team-oriented lineup that will be interesting to watch. Lose, develop and get a good draft pick. That's what this franchise needs and has needed for 21 years.

[E-Balla]

All brutal.

I think of 2018 as the worst. Obi had an argument for BPA and is in fact a useful player. D Mitchell wasn't really considered that high by a number of teams though we definitely got the worst guy in Frank's range.

With 2018 there were so many better options, Knox was such a huge question mark, and PG was still a position of need. Then either Bridges, not knowing what we know now about Miles. Just a disaster.

Obi did not have a BPA argument lol. He's definitely useful, but Hali was the 3rd best player in the draft to me, hell before the year LaMelo had in Australia I wanted Hali even if we got the first pick.

But you might be right about 2018. The saving grace there was that no one was really thought of as a star, but Knox wasn't even supposed to be a lottery pick. Like not even close.

[Reign23]

Thibs ran a 9 man rotation yesterday. I think it improved our performance. It gives more time to players to heat up and enter the game. It could be a tendency to forget the 10-11 man rotation we were playing.

running a 9 man rotation (playoff rotation) in the regular season is peak thibs

running a 9 man rotation is absolute standard for nba teams. the 11 deep he had previously is bs.

[E-Balla]

IQ back to being a keeper again?

i was a big iq guy but i kind of backed off because he just doesn't hit enough shots. it's confounding because he looks good, the shots look good mostly but they just don't go in enough. and they really haven't since year 1. they say he's in the gym all day and night, more than anyone, so it aint about practicing more. who knows.

You don't need to hit shots when you defend like IQ. Even if the shots don't start dropping more he's still above average efficiency (due to his low turnovers) and absolutely spectacular on defense.

The work he's putting in is showing up on that end.

[Capn'O]

All brutal.

I think of 2018 as the worst. Obi had an argument for BPA and is in fact a useful player. D Mitchell wasn't really considered that high by a number of teams though we definitely got the worst guy in Frank's range.

With 2018 there were so many better options, Knox was such a huge question mark, and PG was still a position of need. Then either Bridges, not knowing what we know now about Miles. Just a disaster.

Obi did not have a BPA argument lol. He's definitely useful, but Hali was the 3rd best player in the draft to me, hell before the year LaMelo had in Australia I wanted Hali even if we got the first pick.

But you might be right about 2018. The saving grace there was that no one was really thought of as a star, but Knox wasn't even supposed to be a lottery pick. Like not even close.

Then your draft board was solid. I really liked Obi though admittedly was fairly MIA on overall scouting that year since I wasn't drafting for BAF. I liked Haliburton but didn't really look to closely at him after January or so. I also really, really liked Killian Hayes.

Who do you like in the 22-27 range this year. Asking for a friend.

[Ghetto Gospel]

Thibs ran a 9 man rotation yesterday. I think it improved our performance. It gives more time to players to heat up and enter the game. It could be a tendency to forget the 10-11 man rotation we were playing.

running a 9 man rotation (playoff rotation) in the regular season is peak thibs

running a 9 man rotation is absolute standard for nba teams. the 11 deep he had previously is bs.

9 man is not the absolute regular season standard. the only top team in the east that consistently runs a 9 man rotation in the east at this moment in time is the celtics, and that's led to both tatum and brown playing the most minutes than they ever have in their career. do you like that? they should be taking it easy and gearing up for another finals run

[ctorres]

Thibs ran a 9 man rotation yesterday. I think it improved our performance. It gives more time to players to heat up and enter the game. It could be a tendency to forget the 10-11 man rotation we were playing.

running a 9 man rotation (playoff rotation) in the regular season is peak thibs

running a 9 man rotation is absolute standard for nba teams. the 11 deep he had previously is bs.

I figured it out from the boxscores and putting the minutes together. This is the rotation that Thibs is adhering too...

Brunson - 34 / Rose - 14
Reddish - 33 / Quickley - 15
Barrett - 37 / Quickley - 11
Randle - 32 / Toppin - 16
Hartenstein - 22 / Sims - 24 / Toppin - 2

- Quickley, Reddish, and Barrett never see the floor together at the same time.

- Toppin only sees time at center when Thibs has literally no other choice. Otherwise, it is strictly Hartenstein and Sims at center until Robinson comes back.

- Either Brunson or Rose must be on the floor at all times.

- Grimes or Fournier are unlikely to get minutes unless one of Quickley, Reddish, or Barrett gets hurt.

- McBride would only get minutes if Rose or Brunson get hurt. I don't see Quickley getting shifted to point guard. It seems like Thibs wouldn't want to mess up with the flow of Quickley coming in at SG and SF.

[E-Balla]

Then your draft board was solid. I really liked Obi though admittedly was fairly MIA that year overall since I wasn't drafting for BAF. I liked Haliburton but didn't really look to closely at him after January or so. I also really, really liked Killian Hayes.

Who do you like in the 22-27 range this year. Asking for a friend.

Man it was more solid than I remember I was being modest. Even after seeing LaMelo in Australia I had Hali over him. What the hell were the Knicks scouts even watching?

1. James Wiseman - I think this is obvious, especially in a down year like this.

2. Tyrese Haliburton - Great defense, shooting, and passing but lacks the upside you'd like this high most years. Luckily for him this is a weak year and he's almost guaranteed to be an above average starter at the deepest position in the league. I think he's probably the player I least see being a star of the top 6 guys but outside of Wiseman he's also the one I see as having the highest chance of contributing to a champion which is the real end goal here.

3. LaMelo Ball - I think his shot is busted but it's not slow and it's not awkward for him to pull up off the bounce like it was for Lonzo. His handles are also great, he's fast enough to consistently get to the hole, and he plays like a tall Jason Williams. Most of all I love his rapid improvement, work ethic, and mindset but if that shot doesn't work itself out those positives can easily become his biggest negatives.

4. Anthony Edwards - Living in GA I've seen him a lot and my impression is mixed. His athleticism is great and give him a high upside but my issue with him is that he doesn't use his athletic advantages nearly as much as he should and I've seen players like that before (Wiggins comes to mind) that never learned how to use their athleticism. On the other end of that guys like Oladipo did figure it out. Upside is a borderline superstar though so it's hard to drop him too much.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1926909&p=81054000#p81054000

Spoiler:

That's a huge whiff on Tyler Bey though lmaoooooo. He's averaging like 23/9 in Israel right now not even in the league.

As far as the 22-27 range now I'm sure everyone I'm looking at will shoot up the draft boards but Jordan Walsh and Emoni Bates are the two I'm watching the most. Hopefully Emoni doesn't raise his stock too much lol.

[j4remi]

IQ back to being a keeper again?

i was a big iq guy but i kind of backed off because he just doesn't hit enough shots. it's confounding because he looks good, the shots look good mostly but they just don't go in enough. and they really haven't since year 1. they say he's in the gym all day and night, more than anyone, so it aint about practicing more. who knows.

You don't need to hit shots when you defend like IQ. Even if the shots don't start dropping more he's still above average efficiency (due to his low turnovers) and absolutely spectacular on defense.

The work he's putting in is showing up on that end.

I feel like he could/should draw more FTAs and I'm hoping that'll trend up and his jumper will pick up with, for rhythm reasons.

But yeah, his defense has been a bit downplayed, and he's doing so many other things well that I think even the struggles from range aren't enough to give up on dude. He rebounds as well as any guard we've got too.

[Iron Mantis]

they really need to get rid of bum ass randle.

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?s=20&t=JkXL01rxxIWZ4__nJAORKA

He is dragging the team down. The eye test does not lie and neither does the plus minus.

I'm not drinking the Kool aid. Randle's style of play does not help the team.... He is an empty stats loser.

[Capn'O]

Then your draft board was solid. I really liked Obi though admittedly was fairly MIA that year overall since I wasn't drafting for BAF. I liked Haliburton but didn't really look to closely at him after January or so. I also really, really liked Killian Hayes.

Who do you like in the 22-27 range this year. Asking for a friend.

Man it was more solid than I remember I was being modest. Even after seeing LaMelo in Australia I had Hali over him. What the hell were the Knicks scouts even watching?

1. James Wiseman - I think this is obvious, especially in a down year like this.

2. Tyrese Haliburton - Great defense, shooting, and passing but lacks the upside you'd like this high most years. Luckily for him this is a weak year and he's almost guaranteed to be an above average starter at the deepest position in the league. I think he's probably the player I least see being a star of the top 6 guys but outside of Wiseman he's also the one I see as having the highest chance of contributing to a champion which is the real end goal here.

3. LaMelo Ball - I think his shot is busted but it's not slow and it's not awkward for him to pull up off the bounce like it was for Lonzo. His handles are also great, he's fast enough to consistently get to the hole, and he plays like a tall Jason Williams. Most of all I love his rapid improvement, work ethic, and mindset but if that shot doesn't work itself out those positives can easily become his biggest negatives.

4. Anthony Edwards - Living in GA I've seen him a lot and my impression is mixed. His athleticism is great and give him a high upside but my issue with him is that he doesn't use his athletic advantages nearly as much as he should and I've seen players like that before (Wiggins comes to mind) that never learned how to use their athleticism. On the other end of that guys like Oladipo did figure it out. Upside is a borderline superstar though so it's hard to drop him too much.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1926909&p=81054000#p81054000

Spoiler:

That's a huge whiff on Tyler Bey though lmaoooooo. He's averaging like 23/9 in Israel right now not even in the league.

As far as the 22-27 range now I'm sure everyone I'm looking at will shoot up the draft boards but Jordan Walsh and Emoni Bates are the two I'm watching the most. Hopefully Emoni doesn't raise his stock too much lol.

Wiseman and Hayes were reputation killers. The unmitigated gall.

Bates is a curious one. Best prospect since LeBron, then nobody, now rising again.

[GONYK]

i was a big iq guy but i kind of backed off because he just doesn't hit enough shots. it's confounding because he looks good, the shots look good mostly but they just don't go in enough. and they really haven't since year 1. they say he's in the gym all day and night, more than anyone, so it aint about practicing more. who knows.

You don't need to hit shots when you defend like IQ. Even if the shots don't start dropping more he's still above average efficiency (due to his low turnovers) and absolutely spectacular on defense.

The work he's putting in is showing up on that end.

I feel like he could/should draw more FTAs and I'm hoping that'll trend up and his jumper will pick up with, for rhythm reasons.

But yeah, his defense has been a bit downplayed, and he's doing so many other things well that I think even the struggles from range aren't enough to give up on dude. He rebounds as well as any guard we've got too.

IQ does everything at a pretty high level other than shoot (for the time being).