PG: Knicks vs Portland: Old Fashioned Whoopin'

[spree2kawhi]

As you mention Randle was a +31 and Grant was a -31 but what’s also noteworthy is that Randle had 8 assists(team high) and jerami grant had 0 assists and you talk about self serving when Randle was whipping the ball around and making things happen for his teammates all game long and jerami grant did f all for his team other than chuck Randle also leads the team in rebounds per game at 9.3(not counting Mitch who is gone) and jerami grant averages a shockingly bad 3.6 reb a game

Next game, watch where Randle wants the ball, watch what he does with it, watch how well he takes care of it. It’s chaos. Portland is a terrible team and what’s also important, I wouldn’t want Grant to play Randle’s role for us, but next to him and OG. So it’s not a comparison of the two.

What I’m saying is that one knows his role and is very good at it as an athletic 3&d wing, while the other is a ball stopper who plays like he his freaking LeBron James.

Well you don’t think LeBron is a good basketball player so that might be what the disconnect is here

Oh, I do. I just hate his act.

[spree2kawhi]

Next game, watch where Randle wants the ball, watch what he does with it, watch how well he takes care of it. It’s chaos. Portland is a terrible team and what’s also important, I wouldn’t want Grant to play Randle’s role for us, but next to him and OG. So it’s not a comparison of the two.

What I’m saying is that one knows his role and is very good at it as an athletic 3&d wing, while the other is a ball stopper who plays like he his freaking LeBron James.

So we went over how Grant hasn't actually been a good defender since leaving Denver yesterday (see below). Now about this ball stopper point:

Grant: 54.3 touches/game, 2.88 sec/touch, 2.5apg, 12.4 AST%
Randle: 48.7 touches/game, 3.10 sec/touch, 4.8apg, 21.6 AST%

Jerami Grant is a better 3pt shooter. But the rest of your claims about him just don't hold up.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?CF=TOUCHES*GE*50&Season=2022-23&dir=D&sort=AVG_SEC_PER_TOUCH

EDIT:

Grant hasn't played defense since he got paid & decided he was a star. So you'd be banking on tapping into a player that hasn't existed in like 5 years

D-Raptor over the last 4 season -0.9, -0.7, -0.4, -1.2...vs -1.3, -1.0, +2.1, -0.3 for Julius
D-EPM -0.7 vs +0.0 for Julius
D-DPM -0.9 vs -0.78 for Julius...Grant's D-DPM hasn't been above 0 since the start of the 2020-2021 season

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/
https://dunksandthrees.com/epm
https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO//

Interesting

Watch the games. If the task is to take out an opposing backcourt or wing player, I will continue to claim that there’s hardly 5 better options in the league than 6‘8 Jerami Grant. He easily locked down Brunson at the end of the first half, just for example. He’s also much better at that than Dejounte Murray. Basically, what Grant would do for us, is give us another OG Anunoby. He’s not a player that creates shots for others and not a replacement for Randle. But I’d love to get that second super-long wing-defender in. He can really shoot the three too. Nothing to hate about that. He‘d also be much more impactful than Brogdon.

However, Randle is not a very good option when it comes to finding someone to run the offense for an entire team. He will look for his own dribble-drive first, pass second, chuck third. He’ll also dribble into trouble continuously.

But:

It isn’t much about Randle though. He did have a horrible game against Portland - no matter what the numbers say. He is a lot better sometimes. Anyway, …

Brunson
OG
Grant
Randle
Mitch/Hartenstein


is what I’m talking about. I wouldn’t trade Randle for Grant either.

[cgf]

So we went over how Grant hasn't actually been a good defender since leaving Denver yesterday (see below). Now about this ball stopper point:

Grant: 54.3 touches/game, 2.88 sec/touch, 2.5apg, 12.4 AST%
Randle: 48.7 touches/game, 3.10 sec/touch, 4.8apg, 21.6 AST%

Jerami Grant is a better 3pt shooter. But the rest of your claims about him just don't hold up.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?CF=TOUCHES*GE*50&Season=2022-23&dir=D&sort=AVG_SEC_PER_TOUCH

EDIT:
Grant hasn't played defense since he got paid & decided he was a star. So you'd be banking on tapping into a player that hasn't existed in like 5 years

D-Raptor over the last 4 season -0.9, -0.7, -0.4, -1.2...vs -1.3, -1.0, +2.1, -0.3 for Julius
D-EPM -0.7 vs +0.0 for Julius
D-DPM -0.9 vs -0.78 for Julius...Grant's D-DPM hasn't been above 0 since the start of the 2020-2021 season

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/
https://dunksandthrees.com/epm
https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO//

Watch the games. If the task is to take out an opposing backcourt or wing player, I will continue to claim that there’s hardly 5 better options in the league than 6‘8 Jerami Grant. He easily locked down Brunson at the end of the first half, just for example. He’s also much better at that than Dejounte Murray. Basically, what Grant would do for us, is give us another OG Anunoby. He’s not a player that creates shots for others and not a replacement for Randle. But I’d love to get that second super-long wing-defender in. He can really shoot the three too. Nothing to hate about that. He‘d also be much more impactful than Brogdon.

However, Randle is not a very good option when it comes to finding someone to run the offense for an entire team. He will look for his own dribble-drive first, pass second, chuck third. He’ll also dribble into trouble continuously.

But:

It isn’t much about Randle though. He did have a horrible game against Portland - no matter what the numbers say. He is a lot better sometimes. Anyway, …

Brunson
OG
Grant
Randle
Mitch/Hartenstein


is what I’m talking about. I wouldn’t trade Randle for Grant either.

I watch a lot of games, that's why when the numbers match what I'm seeing I feel confident that I'm not just falling for confirmation bias. And there just isn't any evidence that suggests Grant is as good defensively as Randle, regardless of how frustrating his game may be to you

Grant: 8.9Freq, 0.89PPP, 40.5% EFG
Randle: 10.0 Freq, 0.85PPP, 39.5% EFG

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?CF=GP*GE*20:PLAYER_NAME*E*randle&SeasonYear=2022-23&TypeGrouping=defensive


Don't get me wrong, Grant isn't as bad a defender as Dejounte Murray...but Murray is an objectively awful defender, so it's hard to be worse. Starting Grant over Grimes or even DiVincenzo would only make our defense worse.

[spree2kawhi]

So we went over how Grant hasn't actually been a good defender since leaving Denver yesterday (see below). Now about this ball stopper point:

Grant: 54.3 touches/game, 2.88 sec/touch, 2.5apg, 12.4 AST%
Randle: 48.7 touches/game, 3.10 sec/touch, 4.8apg, 21.6 AST%

Jerami Grant is a better 3pt shooter. But the rest of your claims about him just don't hold up.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?CF=TOUCHES*GE*50&Season=2022-23&dir=D&sort=AVG_SEC_PER_TOUCH

EDIT:
Grant hasn't played defense since he got paid & decided he was a star. So you'd be banking on tapping into a player that hasn't existed in like 5 years

D-Raptor over the last 4 season -0.9, -0.7, -0.4, -1.2...vs -1.3, -1.0, +2.1, -0.3 for Julius
D-EPM -0.7 vs +0.0 for Julius
D-DPM -0.9 vs -0.78 for Julius...Grant's D-DPM hasn't been above 0 since the start of the 2020-2021 season

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/
https://dunksandthrees.com/epm
https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO//

Watch the games. If the task is to take out an opposing backcourt or wing player, I will continue to claim that there’s hardly 5 better options in the league than 6‘8 Jerami Grant. He easily locked down Brunson at the end of the first half, just for example. He’s also much better at that than Dejounte Murray. Basically, what Grant would do for us, is give us another OG Anunoby. He’s not a player that creates shots for others and not a replacement for Randle. But I’d love to get that second super-long wing-defender in. He can really shoot the three too. Nothing to hate about that. He‘d also be much more impactful than Brogdon.

However, Randle is not a very good option when it comes to finding someone to run the offense for an entire team. He will look for his own dribble-drive first, pass second, chuck third. He’ll also dribble into trouble continuously.

But:

It isn’t much about Randle though. He did have a horrible game against Portland - no matter what the numbers say. He is a lot better sometimes. Anyway, …

Brunson
OG
Grant
Randle
Mitch/Hartenstein


is what I’m talking about. I wouldn’t trade Randle for Grant either.

I watch a lot of games, that's why when the numbers match what I'm seeing I feel confident that I'm not just falling for confirmation bias. And there just isn't any evidence that suggests Grant is as good defensively as Randle, regardless of how frustrating his game may be to you

Grant: 8.9Freq, 0.89PPP, 40.5% EFG
Randle: 10.0 Freq, 0.85PPP, 39.5% EFG

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?CF=GP*GE*20:PLAYER_NAME*E*randle&SeasonYear=2022-23&TypeGrouping=defensive


Don't get me wrong, Grant isn't as bad a defender as Dejounte Murray...but Murray is an objectively awful defender, so it's hard to be worse. Starting Grant over Grimes or even DiVincenzo would only make our defense worse.

These stats are from the 2022/23 season. Update Randle’s defensive numbers to 2023/24 season and PPP is suddenly up from 0.85 to 1.35 compared to Grant’s 0.52. Whatever defensive stat this is. This year, Grant’s 13.3% EFG compares to Randle’s 67.6% EFG. I don’t know much about these stats, it says they cover iso-defense, so I guessed a 13.3% EFG (allowed?) this year would be pretty good, especially when compared to Randle 39.5% last year. I may be wrong though.

However, the fun thing about advanced defensive stats is that they will definitely bring up very random results and more often than not, you should trust the eye-test instead.


Darius Garland, Max Strus, KAT, Donovan Mitchell and Tyrese Maxey are top 20 in the league in defensive win shares. Randle currently finishes ahead of Giannis, Desmond Bane and Kevin Durant, Wemby, Vassell, Scottie Barnes. Draymond Green and Haliburton are among the worst players in the league here. I’m not having this silly argument.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense


Mitchell, Garland, Strus and Towns also finish top 20 in defensive rating per game. Ja Morant and Maxey both finish ahead of PG, Butler, KCP, Adebayo etc. in this regard: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=-1&sort=DEF_RATING

So, wtf? Jerami Grant is an elite defensive wing, idc about the stats.