PG: Thibs B Gone

[Jalen Bluntson]

Players Thibs refused to play just beat us down last night. Players Thibs refused to work with are dropping 30-40 points on other teams. Players Thibs does play are walking around with overuse injuries. Somehow Thibs is not the problem.

FOH



This is not rocket science.

[Spree2Houston]

Two all star starters. The other three starters were playing at damn near all star level themselves for different stretches. Everyone in the starting 5 has a 30 burger this year. We struggled on defense early and we had a lot of injuries to the bench to overcome. We were winning though and the vibes were pretty amazing. Going back to the Chicago game where KAT got hurt and at the ASB the vibes changed. It just doesn't have the same energy they had earlier this season. They seem tired and worn out mentally after losses. Losing Brunson hurts a lot but, like I have said, something wasn't right before the injury.

There wasn’t enough film on the team back then. Now there’s tape on these guys. Aside from missing Brunson, this is who we really are

No

Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same… A first round exit

[Jalen Bluntson]

There wasn’t enough film on the team back then. Now there’s tape on these guys. Aside from missing Brunson, this is who we really are

No

Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same… A first round exit

I would love it if we were fully healthy and lost in the first round. Thibs would be fired.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Horford takes 5.0 threes per game in 27.5 mpg, KAT takes 4.9 in 35mpg. You're kidding yourself if you think this is making the best use of KATs talents. His best season ever he took 7.9 per game, and with the way the game has moved him should be taking 8-9 per game, not 4.9.

Looked even further into the numbers, Evan Mobley has a 3 point attempt rate of .236%, while KAT has a .289% rate, meaning we're only getting marginally more 3 point shooting from KAT than the Cavs do from Mobley

Our coach is a rockhead that can't figure out how to get him more 3 point attempts, his last year with Thibs he was at .270% rate. Thibs learned basically nothing on how to utilize him, he was at .231% overall rate with Thibs and .354% after Thibs was fired. Any competent coach would come here and make it a point to have KAT take more threes, and tone down our posts ups, we are inexplicably 8th in the NBA in post up frequency.

Pretending like there's nothing another coach could do is ridiculous, especially not with our offense falling off a cliff even before Brunson got hurt. With Brunson being out he's being exposed more than anything else, he's not creative in the least bit offensively, and how good we are on offense is stictly a result of Jalen.

[HerSports85]

MSG mouthpiece

Read on Twitter

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[Jalen Bluntson]

Daquan Jefferies. A player Thibs couldn't find a half hour for in an entire season. Dude started and played 33 minutes and dropped 14 on Thibs face as a tank team beat the snot out of us.

Grimes killing it in Philly. Thibs had no use for him and we traded him for BURKS!

These are just two examples of how bad Thibs is at utilizing his bench. Feel free to add to the list.

[god shammgod]

he literally started grimes until he got the yips. how did he have no use for him ?

p.s. grimes has been traded twice more since he was here.

[Jalen Bluntson]

MSG mouthpiece

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=nv1DuIYAil1NHCZU015rLg

Something is wrong in the locker room. They literally went out and signed a 50 year old guy who hasn't played in two years for his locker room presence. We need scoring off the bench and they had to sign a chaperone who will never play?

The pressure must be building. Players critical of the coach in public. Players screaming at the coach on the court. Players rumbling about being tired for months. The bench looks lost. This is all on the HC. I think there's something brewing behind the scenes. The louder the press gets, the sooner we will find out.

For Hahn to be speaking on this? Feels like the FO is having the same issues the intelligent part of the fan base does. Hmm,

[vallen]

for me, i'm not arguing for or against thibs. i'm arguing that no coach can fix the problems this roster has. the constant harping on thibs is a distraction from the real issues.

Absolutely this.

[Jalen Bluntson]

he literally started grimes until he got the yips. how did he have no use for him ?

p.s. grimes has been traded twice more since he was here.

We traded Grimes for garbage. Thibs didn't give two shyts about Grimes in the end. He's showing that Thibs was wrong. We traded him for ALEC FUGGIN BURKS!! Thibs wanted that to happen.

To the point though. Thibs is bad with the bench. He buries everyone from 9-17 all year long unless there are injuries. This is an actual nonnegotiable fact that we have seen for five years now.

[knicks94]

Horford takes 5.0 threes per game in 27.5 mpg, KAT takes 4.9 in 35mpg. You're kidding yourself if you think this is making the best use of KATs talents. His best season ever he took 7.9 per game, and with the way the game has moved him should be taking 8-9 per game, not 4.9.

Mazzulla > Thibs

[Capn'O]

Horford takes 5.0 threes per game in 27.5 mpg, KAT takes 4.9 in 35mpg. You're kidding yourself if you think this is making the best use of KATs talents. His best season ever he took 7.9 per game, and with the way the game has moved him should be taking 8-9 per game, not 4.9.

Looked even further into the numbers, Evan Mobley has a 3 point attempt rate of .236%, while KAT has a .289% rate, meaning we're only getting marginally more 3 point shooting from KAT than the Cavs do from Mobley

Our coach is a rockhead that can't figure out how to get him more 3 point attempts, his last year with Thibs he was at .270% rate. Thibs learned basically nothing on how to utilize him, he was at .231% overall rate with Thibs and .354% after Thibs was fired. Any competent coach would come here and make it a point to have KAT take more threes, and tone down our posts ups, we are inexplicably 8th in the NBA in post up frequency.

Pretending like there's nothing another coach could do is ridiculous, especially not with our offense falling off a cliff even before Brunson got hurt. With Brunson being out he's being exposed more than anything else, he's not creative in the least bit offensively, and how good we are on offense is stictly a result of Jalen.

I don't think you even need to tone down the post ups. He can be more of a hub from the post. It's those barreling drives that I have an issue with. That's what Randle was good at. Not KAT. You need to be getting him good looks from 3 and good posts.

[HEZI]

I have no clue what you are talking about as far as "the first time in franchise history" as if that means something. You don't think this years' team could be better in any possible way?

Do you believe this team has a chance to contend this year? If not what is the point of playing the starters so many minutes, shortening the rotation and not playing the young guys while investing time in guys that probably won't be here next year? Is Thibs building something going forward that I just can't see?

I'm very open to roster changes but i'm not exactly sure how they do that now and get better? By selling low on Mikal after overpaying for him? Admitting that KAT is a bad fit at the 5 but hoping someone else likes him at the 5 after Thibs wears his body down? Trading the young guys with no value that have been glued to the bench all year so many people are assuming they suck? Hoping that some quality player is watching how Thibs uses his bench and wants to come play his beautiful brand of basketball for the vet min or the small taxpayer MLE that they could find anyone with last summer?

The entire roster has changed since his first playoff appearance in year 1 and almost all of the youth and draft picks have been traded away yet the team may still get bounced in round 1 just like it did 5 years ago.

Nope they can’t be better. With every rotation “solution” a new problem is created so while you think you fixed one thing you do so by breaking something else. That’s because the roster is constructed in such a way that coaching won’t fix the issues.

Nope they don’t have a chance to contend. Thibs is doing his job which is to coach to win every game. That’s what he gets paid to do with each paycheck. He’s not the GM or trainer or doctor or all these other things you believes a coach is responsible for, he just coaches.

The roster will have to be fixed by the same guy who put the team together. At least roster changes are realistic. Expecting an NBA coach to teach these soon to be 30 year olds how to shoot, dribble and defend at this stage in their careers and fix all the problems with the team is unrealistic.

I have never thought any of the Knicks teams in the last 5-6 years had the talent to contend. Not the January 2024 Knicks, not the Decmeber 2024 Knicks. I can see the flaws in the roster the front office constructed with Thibs and things players could be better at individually but the idea that somehow Thibs has found the exact best solution possible to every problem is ridiculous.

As far as improving the team how are roster changes a simple solution? You can't call someone like Mikal a "mid" role-player and then magically turn him into a better player especially when you have almost no assets to attach to him. You can't just magically change players into better players especially when the guys you are trying to move are already in their primes.

What are they supposed to do now? Hope that the Bucks GM saw Brunson and KAT not take this team to another level together and think to himself that maybe he should exchange possibly a top 5 player in Giannis for KAT to try him with an ageing Lillard and a worse supporting cast? Hope that a team gives the Knicks a better player making $23M or less for Mikal just because? Break Mikal up into multiple cheaper pieces that aren't as good as him individually? Trade Brunson who probably has the highest trade value and hope another player fits better with the team?

Explain to me how they will make the roster significantly better with the way you talk about the players some of the vets, the young players that Thibs won't even let touch the court, the limited draft capital available to trade and the limited money to offer. Changing the coach is very easy. You don't have to worry about trade value or the salary cap.

What is your goal? What improvement are you talking about? If the roster isn’t good enough to win a chip then no coach is getting it to win one so what improvement are you even talking about? You just want to change the coach for the sake of making a change but the expectations of the team remain the same. I don’t see what improvements a coach will make that will realistically bring this roster closer to winning a title.

As far as what roster changes need to be made, that’s on the front office and Leon. The same way he was able to pull moves like getting Brunson, getting IHart, getting Donte, getting OG, getting Mikal, getting KAT, it’s up to him to figure that out. Did you see Hartenstein becoming who he became when we signed him? Donte? Did you expect us to get OG? KAT? He’s very capable of making big changes. Did he make it tougher on himself by capping us out and trading almost all of our draft assets? Yes he did, but he put us in that position and now it’s his job to fix it. I don’t have the solution just like you don’t have a coaching solution but your coaching change still leaves us with a roster that isn’t good enough and what I’m saying is the roster will have to be reconstructed whether you make the coaching change or not.

[Clyde_Style]

Horford takes 5.0 threes per game in 27.5 mpg, KAT takes 4.9 in 35mpg. You're kidding yourself if you think this is making the best use of KATs talents. His best season ever he took 7.9 per game, and with the way the game has moved him should be taking 8-9 per game, not 4.9.

Looked even further into the numbers, Evan Mobley has a 3 point attempt rate of .236%, while KAT has a .289% rate, meaning we're only getting marginally more 3 point shooting from KAT than the Cavs do from Mobley

Our coach is a rockhead that can't figure out how to get him more 3 point attempts, his last year with Thibs he was at .270% rate. Thibs learned basically nothing on how to utilize him, he was at .231% overall rate with Thibs and .354% after Thibs was fired. Any competent coach would come here and make it a point to have KAT take more threes, and tone down our posts ups, we are inexplicably 8th in the NBA in post up frequency.

Pretending like there's nothing another coach could do is ridiculous, especially not with our offense falling off a cliff even before Brunson got hurt. With Brunson being out he's being exposed more than anything else, he's not creative in the least bit offensively, and how good we are on offense is stictly a result of Jalen.

I don't think you even need to tone down the post ups. He can be more of a hub from the post. It's those barreling drives that I have an issue with. That's what Randle was good at. Not KAT. You need to be getting him good looks from 3 and good posts.

Those FrankenDrives are most likely to get KAT injured. KAT's gift is he has got great touch, but he is far from a gifted athlete below the hips. You need to optimize his touch, not relegate him to bully ball which is a stupid way to deploy him. He's such a natural scorer if you cater to his strengths.

[Clyde_Style]

Knicks are the only team in the current top 7 seeds in the EC playing under .500 in their last 10 games.

Most of the seeded teams are playing winning ball headed into the playoffs.

With the wheels coming off this team presently, at 43 wins and 13 games left I doubt we'll reach 50 wins this season.

[Capn'O]

Looked even further into the numbers, Evan Mobley has a 3 point attempt rate of .236%, while KAT has a .289% rate, meaning we're only getting marginally more 3 point shooting from KAT than the Cavs do from Mobley

Our coach is a rockhead that can't figure out how to get him more 3 point attempts, his last year with Thibs he was at .270% rate. Thibs learned basically nothing on how to utilize him, he was at .231% overall rate with Thibs and .354% after Thibs was fired. Any competent coach would come here and make it a point to have KAT take more threes, and tone down our posts ups, we are inexplicably 8th in the NBA in post up frequency.

Pretending like there's nothing another coach could do is ridiculous, especially not with our offense falling off a cliff even before Brunson got hurt. With Brunson being out he's being exposed more than anything else, he's not creative in the least bit offensively, and how good we are on offense is stictly a result of Jalen.

I don't think you even need to tone down the post ups. He can be more of a hub from the post. It's those barreling drives that I have an issue with. That's what Randle was good at. Not KAT. You need to be getting him good looks from 3 and good posts.

Those FrankenDrives are most likely to get KAT injured. KAT's gift is he has got great touch, but he is far from a gifted athlete below the hips. You need to optimize his touch, not relegate him to bully ball which is a stupid way to deploy him. He's such a natural scorer if you cater to his strengths.

Conversely, Mikal has shown he can be a secondary creation hub.

What I do wonder is if Josh is the odd man out with this group. Which sucks because I love his game so much.

[Adelheid]

there is always that sticking point in conversations that i always see all through out the years i have been in this board

guy is balling out with a different team
"this guy wasnt good while he was here with the knicks"

why is that so? what could be the reason for this?

[knicks94]

Didn't Thibs go 31-51 one season with KAT as his leading scorer and a deeper roster than this one?

[Clyde_Style]

I don't think you even need to tone down the post ups. He can be more of a hub from the post. It's those barreling drives that I have an issue with. That's what Randle was good at. Not KAT. You need to be getting him good looks from 3 and good posts.

Those FrankenDrives are most likely to get KAT injured. KAT's gift is he has got great touch, but he is far from a gifted athlete below the hips. You need to optimize his touch, not relegate him to bully ball which is a stupid way to deploy him. He's such a natural scorer if you cater to his strengths.

Conversely, Mikal has shown he can be a secondary creation hub.

What I do wonder is if Josh is the odd man out with this group. Which sucks because I love his game so much.

Hart on fire is some of the most fun ball we've gotten to watch in years. Peak Hart is an elite glue guy.

He was Thibs favorite, but he was overplayed last year and he looks burnt out now. Josh without a motor is not that helpful.

The big issue is Brunson and KAT are too weak defensively to then put Hart on bigger players. We end up getting mismatched against other teams with our starting lineups.

And until we evolve beyond hero ball on offense, Hart's erratic shooting becomes another weak point.

He needs less minutes off the bench and we need a new coach who will play KAT and Mikal to their strengths and diversify our offensive sets.

[Iron Mantis]

Minutes Police and Thibs doubters are cooking tonight. Keep bringing that heat.