PG: fake contenders

[HopelessKnick]

The trade was Ayton + Camara for Josh Hart and Mitch.

Lavine or not, KAT would’ve been moved already if it was up to me.

But did you base this on some sort of real rumor or did you just suggest it? Because I don't see how that proposal was realistic at all. Portland would have never done that IMO.

As for KAT, I would strongly consider a KAT deal if we could get a PF/C, good defender back that is able to score 18-20 points on offense. I think this team will be much much tougher if we have another gritty defender in there that may score a bit less but can lock down on defense. I would still like to see the KAT/Mitch frontcourt for a final verdict but as of today I would prefer a line-up with Mitch at C, Bridges at the 2, OG at the 3 and a PF/C that can play both ends.

Nah that one specifically I suggested that last summer before Camara broke out this year. I wanted us to snatch Camara on the low before he took that leap. So yea I don’t see them trading him now at all.

Thibs is likely saving the Mitch KaT front court for the playoffs so we’ll see what happens then

I'm really curious about that---but does it make sense given that they would have not played together and didn't develop any chemistry on the court together?

[3toheadmelo]

But did you base this on some sort of real rumor or did you just suggest it? Because I don't see how that proposal was realistic at all. Portland would have never done that IMO.

As for KAT, I would strongly consider a KAT deal if we could get a PF/C, good defender back that is able to score 18-20 points on offense. I think this team will be much much tougher if we have another gritty defender in there that may score a bit less but can lock down on defense. I would still like to see the KAT/Mitch frontcourt for a final verdict but as of today I would prefer a line-up with Mitch at C, Bridges at the 2, OG at the 3 and a PF/C that can play both ends.

Nah that one specifically I suggested that last summer before Camara broke out this year. I wanted us to snatch Camara on the low before he took that leap. So yea I don’t see them trading him now at all.

Thibs is likely saving the Mitch KaT front court for the playoffs so we’ll see what happens then

I'm really curious about that---but does it make sense given that they would have not played together and didn't develop any chemistry on the court together?

I’m not sure but hopefully we can see them start a game or two before the playoffs. I’d love to see it happen on Tuesday against Boston.

[HopelessKnick]

Nah that one specifically I suggested that last summer before Camara broke out this year. I wanted us to snatch Camara on the low before he took that leap. So yea I don’t see them trading him now at all.

Thibs is likely saving the Mitch KaT front court for the playoffs so we’ll see what happens then

I'm really curious about that---but does it make sense given that they would have not played together and didn't develop any chemistry on the court together?

I’m not sure but hopefully we can see them start a game or two before the playoffs. I’d love to see it happen on Tuesday against Boston.

I kind of have a different opinion on this. Thibs is essentially a coach that is the opposite of brave,creative and daring...he usually coaches from a point of fear and being scared. He has run this starting 5 the entire season and will get 50 wins out of them. He is too scared to bench Josh Hart so he is delaying this as long as possible. He will only do it in the playoffs and excusing it as matchup based so he remains on Josh's good side. He is too weak to make such a bold move with the season winding down.

Thibs is only tough in talk, in actions he is pretty weak.

[spree2kawhi]

The trade was Ayton + Camara for Josh Hart and Mitch.

Lavine or not, KAT would’ve been moved already if it was up to me.

But did you base this on some sort of real rumor or did you just suggest it? Because I don't see how that proposal was realistic at all. Portland would have never done that IMO.

As for KAT, I would strongly consider a KAT deal if we could get a PF/C, good defender back that is able to score 18-20 points on offense. I think this team will be much much tougher if we have another gritty defender in there that may score a bit less but can lock down on defense. I would still like to see the KAT/Mitch frontcourt for a final verdict but as of today I would prefer a line-up with Mitch at C, Bridges at the 2, OG at the 3 and a PF/C that can play both ends.

Nah that one specifically I suggested that last summer before Camara broke out this year. I wanted us to snatch Camara on the low before he took that leap. So yea I don’t see them trading him now at all.

Thibs is likely saving the Mitch KaT front court for the playoffs so we’ll see what happens then

So Toumani and DeAndre would’ve propelled us past Boston? And LaVine? So Brunson, LaVine, Camara, Randle, Ayton? Sorry man, that has to be a joke. Ayton and LaVine are notorious losers in my book, so why do you think any of them would enable us beat Boston or Cleveland more than Towns? Jimmy Butler was never an option, certainly not in a trade for Bogdanovic, but even with him and Randle instead of Towns and Bridges that’s not even a better team than we currently have. They both cannot shoot and one would actually have gone out for the other

Even in the craziest of worlds, Brunson and LaVine and Jimmy and Randle and Ayton couldn’t beat the Celtics together. It sure is your team though as they would never pass but dribble the hell out of the basketball. And together they don’t even fit under any salary cap of the next 60 years. So HOW is that substantiated basketball talk?

Before complaining so much you should remember that Bridges is under contract for less than 25 million through next year - easily one of the best contracts in the league. Compare that to Ayton’s 35 or LaVine’s 47.5 next year. Needless to say, these losers’ teams either won’t make the playoffs yet again or, as it stands, LaVine would actually have to edge Randle in the play-in. How ironic.

As for Mitchell, he may have been on the table, we don’t know that, but that’s because their product sucked ass at that time and he stopped believing in it. Fast forward one year of growth from within and you’ve got this well-oiled machine. When healthy we’re arguably even more talented than them. So that’s why I don’t believe you’re right, to put it mildly.

[3toheadmelo]

But did you base this on some sort of real rumor or did you just suggest it? Because I don't see how that proposal was realistic at all. Portland would have never done that IMO.

As for KAT, I would strongly consider a KAT deal if we could get a PF/C, good defender back that is able to score 18-20 points on offense. I think this team will be much much tougher if we have another gritty defender in there that may score a bit less but can lock down on defense. I would still like to see the KAT/Mitch frontcourt for a final verdict but as of today I would prefer a line-up with Mitch at C, Bridges at the 2, OG at the 3 and a PF/C that can play both ends.

Nah that one specifically I suggested that last summer before Camara broke out this year. I wanted us to snatch Camara on the low before he took that leap. So yea I don’t see them trading him now at all.

Thibs is likely saving the Mitch KaT front court for the playoffs so we’ll see what happens then

So Toumani and DeAndre would’ve propelled us past Boston? And LaVine? So Brunson, LaVine, Camara, Randle, Ayton? Sorry man, that has to be a joke. Ayton and LaVine are notorious losers in my book, so why do you think any of them would enable us beat Boston or Cleveland more than Towns? Jimmy Butler was never an option, certainly not in a trade for Bogdanovic, but even with him and Randle instead of Towns and Bridges that’s not even a better team than we currently have. They both cannot shoot and one would have gone out for the other

Even in the craziest of worlds, Brunson and LaVine and Jimmy and Randle and Ayton couldn’t beat the Celtics together. It sure is your team though as they would never pass but dribble the hell out of the basketball. And together they don’t even fit under any salary cap of the next 60 years. So HOW is that substantiated basketball talk?

Before complaining so much you should remember that Bridges is under contract for less than 25 million through next year - easily one of the best contracts in the league. Compare that to Ayton’s 35 or LaVine’s 47.5 next year. Needless to say, these losers’ teams either won’t make the playoffs yet again or, as it stands, LaVine would actually have to edge Randle in the play-in. How ironic.

As for Mitchell, he may have been on the table, we don’t know that, but that’s because their product sucked ass at that time and he stopped believing in it. Fast forward one year of growth from within and you’ve got this well-oiled machine. When healthy we’re arguably even more talented than them. So that’s why I don’t believe you’re right, to put it mildly.

You wanted us to trade for Jerami Grant and Nurkic. How is Brunson, Nurkic and Grant beating Boston? That’s why I can’t take you seriously.

And like I said before, the Knicks could’ve simply ran it back and saved our assets for Giannis or KD. Actually would’ve been better to run it back too because continuity was showing our growth and we were beating contenders left and right for the first time since 2013. Instead we went all in on a mid team that has zero ways of improving and took 10 steps backwards defensively.

Lavine just beat Cleveland on his own today, something Mikalikina can’t do.

We’re 0-8 against Boston, OKC and Cleveland. Good luck dying on this hill that this team has “elite talent”.

[spree2kawhi]

Nah that one specifically I suggested that last summer before Camara broke out this year. I wanted us to snatch Camara on the low before he took that leap. So yea I don’t see them trading him now at all.

Thibs is likely saving the Mitch KaT front court for the playoffs so we’ll see what happens then

So Toumani and DeAndre would’ve propelled us past Boston? And LaVine? So Brunson, LaVine, Camara, Randle, Ayton? Sorry man, that has to be a joke. Ayton and LaVine are notorious losers in my book, so why do you think any of them would enable us beat Boston or Cleveland more than Towns? Jimmy Butler was never an option, certainly not in a trade for Bogdanovic, but even with him and Randle instead of Towns and Bridges that’s not even a better team than we currently have. They both cannot shoot and one would have gone out for the other

Even in the craziest of worlds, Brunson and LaVine and Jimmy and Randle and Ayton couldn’t beat the Celtics together. It sure is your team though as they would never pass but dribble the hell out of the basketball. And together they don’t even fit under any salary cap of the next 60 years. So HOW is that substantiated basketball talk?

Before complaining so much you should remember that Bridges is under contract for less than 25 million through next year - easily one of the best contracts in the league. Compare that to Ayton’s 35 or LaVine’s 47.5 next year. Needless to say, these losers’ teams either won’t make the playoffs yet again or, as it stands, LaVine would actually have to edge Randle in the play-in. How ironic.

As for Mitchell, he may have been on the table, we don’t know that, but that’s because their product sucked ass at that time and he stopped believing in it. Fast forward one year of growth from within and you’ve got this well-oiled machine. When healthy we’re arguably even more talented than them. So that’s why I don’t believe you’re right, to put it mildly.

You wanted us to trade for Jerami Grant and Nurkic. How is Brunson, Nurkic and Grant beating Boston? That’s why I can’t take you seriously.

And like I said before, the Knicks could’ve simply ran it back and saved our assets for Giannis or KD. Actually would’ve been better to run it back too because continuity was showing our growth and we were beating contenders left and right for the first time since 2013. Instead we went all in on a mid team that has zero ways of improving and took 10 steps backwards defensively.

Lavine just beat Cleveland on his own today, something Mikalikina can’t do.

We’re 0-8 against Boston, OKC and Cleveland. Good luck dying on this hill that this team has “elite talent”.

Yeah, Giannis, Durant, butler and Tatum are of course better ideas than Nurkic and Grant, I get it. But this is the real world and we’re not getting them. And even if we somehow do land Giannis, it will only be after trading Randle for Towns first.

Running it back was also no option because nobody wanted to keep and pay Randle. He was, after all, holding this team back in terms of playing style and its ceiling.

Oh and btw, I wanted us to trade RJ for OG or Siakam, Bogdanovic for Bridges, Randle for Towns. All months before the deals happened. I think that’s more serious and substantiated than fantasies of Brunson, Mitchell, Tatum, Durant, Giannis lineups or whatever it is with you.

After all, Towns was actually available and I called it, and all we had to do is send our malcontent there.

[3toheadmelo]

So Toumani and DeAndre would’ve propelled us past Boston? And LaVine? So Brunson, LaVine, Camara, Randle, Ayton? Sorry man, that has to be a joke. Ayton and LaVine are notorious losers in my book, so why do you think any of them would enable us beat Boston or Cleveland more than Towns? Jimmy Butler was never an option, certainly not in a trade for Bogdanovic, but even with him and Randle instead of Towns and Bridges that’s not even a better team than we currently have. They both cannot shoot and one would have gone out for the other

Even in the craziest of worlds, Brunson and LaVine and Jimmy and Randle and Ayton couldn’t beat the Celtics together. It sure is your team though as they would never pass but dribble the hell out of the basketball. And together they don’t even fit under any salary cap of the next 60 years. So HOW is that substantiated basketball talk?

Before complaining so much you should remember that Bridges is under contract for less than 25 million through next year - easily one of the best contracts in the league. Compare that to Ayton’s 35 or LaVine’s 47.5 next year. Needless to say, these losers’ teams either won’t make the playoffs yet again or, as it stands, LaVine would actually have to edge Randle in the play-in. How ironic.

As for Mitchell, he may have been on the table, we don’t know that, but that’s because their product sucked ass at that time and he stopped believing in it. Fast forward one year of growth from within and you’ve got this well-oiled machine. When healthy we’re arguably even more talented than them. So that’s why I don’t believe you’re right, to put it mildly.

You wanted us to trade for Jerami Grant and Nurkic. How is Brunson, Nurkic and Grant beating Boston? That’s why I can’t take you seriously.

And like I said before, the Knicks could’ve simply ran it back and saved our assets for Giannis or KD. Actually would’ve been better to run it back too because continuity was showing our growth and we were beating contenders left and right for the first time since 2013. Instead we went all in on a mid team that has zero ways of improving and took 10 steps backwards defensively.

Lavine just beat Cleveland on his own today, something Mikalikina can’t do.

We’re 0-8 against Boston, OKC and Cleveland. Good luck dying on this hill that this team has “elite talent”.

Yeah, Giannis, Durant, butler and Tatum are of course better ideas than Nurkic and Grant, I get it. But this is the real world and we’re not getting them. And even if we somehow do land Giannis, it will only be after trading Randle for Towns first.

Running it back was also no option because nobody wanted to keep and pay Randle. He was, after all, holding this team back in terms of playing style and its ceiling.

Oh and btw, I wanted us to trade RJ for OG or Siakam, Bogdanovic for Bridges, Randle for Towns. All months before the deals happened. I think that’s more serious and substantiated than fantasies of Brunson, Mitchell, Tatum, Durant, Giannis lineups or whatever it is with you.

After all, Towns was actually available and I called it, and all we had to do is send our malcontent there.

Yikes you wanted us to trade for bogdanovich too? Oof. And Siakam is worse than Randle

Imagine a team of Brunson, bogdanovic, Grant and Nurkic


Running it back definitely was an option but we blew our load on Mikalikina and Towns which literally nobody wanted to trade for.

Donovan Mitchell could’ve been a Knick and he’s better than every player you suggested.

[HopelessKnick]

So Toumani and DeAndre would’ve propelled us past Boston? And LaVine? So Brunson, LaVine, Camara, Randle, Ayton? Sorry man, that has to be a joke. Ayton and LaVine are notorious losers in my book, so why do you think any of them would enable us beat Boston or Cleveland more than Towns? Jimmy Butler was never an option, certainly not in a trade for Bogdanovic, but even with him and Randle instead of Towns and Bridges that’s not even a better team than we currently have. They both cannot shoot and one would have gone out for the other

Even in the craziest of worlds, Brunson and LaVine and Jimmy and Randle and Ayton couldn’t beat the Celtics together. It sure is your team though as they would never pass but dribble the hell out of the basketball. And together they don’t even fit under any salary cap of the next 60 years. So HOW is that substantiated basketball talk?

Before complaining so much you should remember that Bridges is under contract for less than 25 million through next year - easily one of the best contracts in the league. Compare that to Ayton’s 35 or LaVine’s 47.5 next year. Needless to say, these losers’ teams either won’t make the playoffs yet again or, as it stands, LaVine would actually have to edge Randle in the play-in. How ironic.

As for Mitchell, he may have been on the table, we don’t know that, but that’s because their product sucked ass at that time and he stopped believing in it. Fast forward one year of growth from within and you’ve got this well-oiled machine. When healthy we’re arguably even more talented than them. So that’s why I don’t believe you’re right, to put it mildly.

You wanted us to trade for Jerami Grant and Nurkic. How is Brunson, Nurkic and Grant beating Boston? That’s why I can’t take you seriously.

And like I said before, the Knicks could’ve simply ran it back and saved our assets for Giannis or KD. Actually would’ve been better to run it back too because continuity was showing our growth and we were beating contenders left and right for the first time since 2013. Instead we went all in on a mid team that has zero ways of improving and took 10 steps backwards defensively.

Lavine just beat Cleveland on his own today, something Mikalikina can’t do.

We’re 0-8 against Boston, OKC and Cleveland. Good luck dying on this hill that this team has “elite talent”.

Yeah, Giannis, Durant, butler and Tatum are of course better ideas than Nurkic and Grant, I get it. But this is the real world and we’re not getting them. And even if we somehow do land Giannis, it will only be after trading Randle for Towns first.

Running it back was also no option because nobody wanted to keep and pay Randle. He was, after all, holding this team back in terms of playing style and its ceiling.

Oh and btw, I wanted us to trade RJ for OG or Siakam, Bogdanovic for Bridges, Randle for Towns. All months before the deals happened. I think that’s more serious and substantiated than fantasies of Brunson, Mitchell, Tatum, Durant, Giannis lineups or whatever it is with you.

After all, Towns was actually available and I called it, and all we had to do is send our malcontent there.

I kinda agree that Melo's trade suggestion are on the more unrealistic side but I do agree with the overall sentiment that we went all-in on a team with a clear ceiling (second round mostly). Today's team may be slightly better than last year's team (although I'm not even 100% sold on that) but at what cost? We traded away essentially all our assets. I would have much rather had last year's team + all the picks we had than this team with no picks. I actually felt that last year's team at full strength would have destroyed the Pacers and gave the Celtics a hard fight.

Brunson-Deuce-DD-Hart-OG-Randle-Precious-Mitch-Hartenstein + all picks >>>>>> today's team. And I say that while I genuinely wish and hope our team to go as deep as possible and succeed. Love the characters.

The bolded is definitely untrue and you know it: DD + 17th pick in a deep deep draft is far from "only malcontent". We essentially lost the 17th and 18th pick in the upcoming draft. That's quite a big blow IMO. At the time of the trade most people thought the Bucks pick is gonna be bottom 5-7 and the Detroit pick is not gonna convey anyways. Both turned out mid first round picks. I'm actually positive that if management assessed the worth of these picks correctly they wouldn't have made those trades: Can you confidently say that KAT is more valuable than Randle + DD + 17th pick?

If you want to insist on the notion that this team is much better than last year's team then you would still have to make the judgement whether a 3-4 win improvement was worth giving up 6-7 FRPs. In my world, certainly not.

[HopelessKnick]

Just think about what type of player we could have potentially traded for with having the 17th, 18th and 25th pick in this year's draft. Or we could have drafted a rookie and traded 2 picks.

Example: Deandre Hunter for 1FRP is 10 universes better than Bridges for 5FRPs.....Last offseason I would have confidently said the Knicks are in a better position than Cleveland going forward----the Bridges and Hunter trades completely reversed that. We paid 5times the price for a comparable asset. The Bridges trade was a catastrophe really....

[3toheadmelo]

You wanted us to trade for Jerami Grant and Nurkic. How is Brunson, Nurkic and Grant beating Boston? That’s why I can’t take you seriously.

And like I said before, the Knicks could’ve simply ran it back and saved our assets for Giannis or KD. Actually would’ve been better to run it back too because continuity was showing our growth and we were beating contenders left and right for the first time since 2013. Instead we went all in on a mid team that has zero ways of improving and took 10 steps backwards defensively.

Lavine just beat Cleveland on his own today, something Mikalikina can’t do.

We’re 0-8 against Boston, OKC and Cleveland. Good luck dying on this hill that this team has “elite talent”.

Yeah, Giannis, Durant, butler and Tatum are of course better ideas than Nurkic and Grant, I get it. But this is the real world and we’re not getting them. And even if we somehow do land Giannis, it will only be after trading Randle for Towns first.

Running it back was also no option because nobody wanted to keep and pay Randle. He was, after all, holding this team back in terms of playing style and its ceiling.

Oh and btw, I wanted us to trade RJ for OG or Siakam, Bogdanovic for Bridges, Randle for Towns. All months before the deals happened. I think that’s more serious and substantiated than fantasies of Brunson, Mitchell, Tatum, Durant, Giannis lineups or whatever it is with you.

After all, Towns was actually available and I called it, and all we had to do is send our malcontent there.

I kinda agree that Melo's trade suggestion are on the more unrealistic side but I do agree with the overall sentiment that we went all-in on a team with a clear ceiling (second round mostly). Today's team may be slightly better than last year's team (although I'm not even 100% sold on that) but at what cost? We traded away essentially all our assets. I would have much rather had last year's team + all the picks we had than this team with no picks. I actually felt that last year's team at full strength would have destroyed the Pacers and gave the Celtics a hard fight.

Brunson-Deuce-DD-Hart-OG-Randle-Precious-Mitch-Hartenstein + all picks >>>>>> today's team. And I say that while I genuinely wish and hope our team to go as deep as possible and succeed. Love the characters.

The bolded is definitely untrue and you know it: DD + 17th pick in a deep deep draft is far from "only malcontent". We essentially lost the 17th and 18th pick in the upcoming draft. That's quite a big blow IMO. At the time of the trade most people thought the Bucks pick is gonna be bottom 5-7 and the Detroit pick is not gonna convey anyways. Both turned out mid first round picks. I'm actually positive that if management assessed the worth of these picks correctly they wouldn't have made those trades: Can you confidently say that KAT is more valuable than Randle + DD + 17th pick?

If you want to insist on the notion that this team is much better than last year's team then you would still have to make the judgement whether a 3-4 win improvement was worth giving up 6-7 FRPs. In my world, certainly not.

Yep. That’s basically what it comes to.

[3toheadmelo]

Just think about what type of player we could have potentially traded for with having the 17th, 18th and 25th pick in this year's draft. Or we could have drafted a rookie and traded 2 picks.

Example: Deandre Hunter for 1FRP is 10 universes better than Bridges for 5FRPs.....Last offseason I would have confidently said the Knicks are in a better position than Cleveland going forward----the Bridges and Hunter trades completely reversed that. We paid 5times the price for a comparable asset. The Bridges trade was a catastrophe really....

Yep. We could’ve gotten Hunter for half the cost.

[spree2kawhi]

You wanted us to trade for Jerami Grant and Nurkic. How is Brunson, Nurkic and Grant beating Boston? That’s why I can’t take you seriously.

And like I said before, the Knicks could’ve simply ran it back and saved our assets for Giannis or KD. Actually would’ve been better to run it back too because continuity was showing our growth and we were beating contenders left and right for the first time since 2013. Instead we went all in on a mid team that has zero ways of improving and took 10 steps backwards defensively.

Lavine just beat Cleveland on his own today, something Mikalikina can’t do.

We’re 0-8 against Boston, OKC and Cleveland. Good luck dying on this hill that this team has “elite talent”.

Yeah, Giannis, Durant, butler and Tatum are of course better ideas than Nurkic and Grant, I get it. But this is the real world and we’re not getting them. And even if we somehow do land Giannis, it will only be after trading Randle for Towns first.

Running it back was also no option because nobody wanted to keep and pay Randle. He was, after all, holding this team back in terms of playing style and its ceiling.

Oh and btw, I wanted us to trade RJ for OG or Siakam, Bogdanovic for Bridges, Randle for Towns. All months before the deals happened. I think that’s more serious and substantiated than fantasies of Brunson, Mitchell, Tatum, Durant, Giannis lineups or whatever it is with you.

After all, Towns was actually available and I called it, and all we had to do is send our malcontent there.

Yikes you wanted us to trade for bogdanovich too? Oof. And Siakam is worse than Randle

Imagine a team of Brunson, bogdanovic, Grant and Nurkic


Running it back definitely was an option but we blew our load on Mikalikina and Towns which literally nobody wanted to trade for.

Donovan Mitchell could’ve been a Knick and he’s better than every player you suggested.

We traded Bogdanovic for Bridges. You couldn’t have got Butler for Bogdanovic then or ever at all.

You don’t know why Donovan Mitchell isn’t a Knick.

[HopelessKnick]

Just think about what type of player we could have potentially traded for with having the 17th, 18th and 25th pick in this year's draft. Or we could have drafted a rookie and traded 2 picks.

Example: Deandre Hunter for 1FRP is 10 universes better than Bridges for 5FRPs.....Last offseason I would have confidently said the Knicks are in a better position than Cleveland going forward----the Bridges and Hunter trades completely reversed that. We paid 5times the price for a comparable asset. The Bridges trade was a catastrophe really....

Yep. We could’ve gotten Hunter for half the cost.

Actually even less than that IMO. Cleveland didn't even give up a single FRP. They gave up 3 SRP which are likely to be in the 50s range given that Cleveland is essentially a very very young team winning 60 games already. Then they gave up Levert und Niang. To me AT MOST that whole package is like giving up 1,5 FRPs. At most. Considering the fact that we gave up 4 FRPs + the Milwaukee pick (18th in draft) that is IMO literally 5 times the cost.

To me the 18th pick in this year's draft alone is already worth more than the entire Cavs package. Leon goot fleeced in the Nets deal, like really fleeced badly. It was an Isaiah Thomas like trade. Reckless, giving away FRPs 7 years into the future for a role player.

Like ask yourself this question: If we still had that Milwaukee pick which is going to be 18th in this year's draft---would you have given up that pick for the Cleveland package of Levert, Niang and 3 2nds? I personally would not. And we gave up 4 additional unprotected FRPs. Really unbelievable bad deal if you ask me.

[Fury]

We don't get OG if we got Mitchell

[HopelessKnick]

We don't get OG if we got Mitchell

The OG and Hart deal were both very very good deals IMO. I personally don't question them at all.

Last offseason was bad. Now the KAT trade to me is debatable---I'm not against it, in fact even today I may be slightly in favor of it, although with the Detroit pick turning out to be a pretty great 17th pick in a deep draft that discussion is certainly open. Let us see how KAT performs in the playoffs before judging that trade.

KAT has averaged 18 points and 12rebounds in those 8 games against Cleveland, OKC and Boston. The % are very solid. So on offense he hasn't performed bad but if you consider the amount of points we gave up on the other hand, then again the discussion is pretty open IMO. Going by feel and the eye test, it feels like for KAT to be a net positive in those games he would have to get much much more on the offensive end than 18points. It feels like he gives up much more on defense (against those teams).

The Bridges trade (and I like Bridges characterwise and his game is not bad or anything) was a straight catastrophe IMO. Realistically, Bridges is worth maybe 2 unprotected FRPs. You give up the Milwaukee pick + Knicks unprotected 2025 and 2027 then you have already paid a steep price and more than he is worth IMO. Adding the 2029 and 2031 is absolute insanity.

[3toheadmelo]

Yeah, Giannis, Durant, butler and Tatum are of course better ideas than Nurkic and Grant, I get it. But this is the real world and we’re not getting them. And even if we somehow do land Giannis, it will only be after trading Randle for Towns first.

Running it back was also no option because nobody wanted to keep and pay Randle. He was, after all, holding this team back in terms of playing style and its ceiling.

Oh and btw, I wanted us to trade RJ for OG or Siakam, Bogdanovic for Bridges, Randle for Towns. All months before the deals happened. I think that’s more serious and substantiated than fantasies of Brunson, Mitchell, Tatum, Durant, Giannis lineups or whatever it is with you.

After all, Towns was actually available and I called it, and all we had to do is send our malcontent there.

Yikes you wanted us to trade for bogdanovich too? Oof. And Siakam is worse than Randle

Imagine a team of Brunson, bogdanovic, Grant and Nurkic


Running it back definitely was an option but we blew our load on Mikalikina and Towns which literally nobody wanted to trade for.

Donovan Mitchell could’ve been a Knick and he’s better than every player you suggested.

We traded Bogdanovic for Bridges. You couldn’t have got Butler for Bogdanovic then or ever at all.

You don’t know why Donovan Mitchell isn’t a Knick.

Yeah we also gave up 5 first round picks for Mikal. Butler was moved for one pick

Yes we do know why Mitchell isn’t a Knick. Woj said the Knicks didn’t want to give up grimes/IQ or a extra first round pick to seal the deal.

[3toheadmelo]

Just think about what type of player we could have potentially traded for with having the 17th, 18th and 25th pick in this year's draft. Or we could have drafted a rookie and traded 2 picks.

Example: Deandre Hunter for 1FRP is 10 universes better than Bridges for 5FRPs.....Last offseason I would have confidently said the Knicks are in a better position than Cleveland going forward----the Bridges and Hunter trades completely reversed that. We paid 5times the price for a comparable asset. The Bridges trade was a catastrophe really....

Yep. We could’ve gotten Hunter for half the cost.

Actually even less than that IMO. Cleveland didn't even give up a single FRP. They gave up 3 SRP which are likely to be in the 50s range given that Cleveland is essentially a very very young team winning 60 games already. Then they gave up Levert und Niang. To me AT MOST that whole package is like giving up 1,5 FRPs. At most. Considering the fact that we gave up 4 FRPs + the Milwaukee pick (18th in draft) that is IMO literally 5 times the cost.

To me the 18th pick in this year's draft alone is already worth more than the entire Cavs package. Leon goot fleeced in the Nets deal, like really fleeced badly. It was an Isaiah Thomas like trade. Reckless, giving away FRPs 7 years into the future for a role player.

Like ask yourself this question: If we still had that Milwaukee pick which is going to be 18th in this year's draft---would you have given up that pick for the Cleveland package of Levert, Niang and 3 2nds? I personally would not. And we gave up 4 additional unprotected FRPs. Really unbelievable bad deal if you ask me.

The Mikal trade was one of the worst deals we’ve ever made.

[Jalen Bluntson]

We don't get OG if we got Mitchell

We were never seriously getting DM. Ainge played us to get the Cavs back to the table with a better offer. We were used like we always are when teams/players want leverage or more money/assets in trade. Two years later we are still listening to people crying about this. Two months of trade talks? Please. Ainge was playing the Knicks for either a ridiculous package or to get a better offer from someone else. That's when Leon walked away. AINGE HATES THE KNICKS.

[HopelessKnick]

We don't get OG if we got Mitchell

We were never seriously getting DM. Ainge played us to get the Cavs back to the table with a better offer. We were used like we always are when teams/players want leverage or more money/assets in trade. Two years later we are still listening to people crying about this. Two months of trade talks? Please. Ainge was playing the Knicks for either a ridiculous package or to get a better offer from someone else. That's when Leon walked away. AINGE HATES THE KNICKS.

And I think walking away from it at that time was the right move. Obviously you can always go back and point at Cavs success right now as proof that the midget backcourt works. But keep in mind Cleveland has two durable, mobile, athletic, great defending 7 footer up front. One of them DPOY candidate. The Knicks have Mitch (plays 30 games a season) and KAT (little defense). Bein cautious with a JB-DM backcourt was the rational call IMO. Giving up 5 FRPs for Bridges was insanity.

In those infamous 8 games Bridges averaged:

13points/2rebounds/2assists on 45% and 28%. He shot 3 FTs in all those 8 games combined. Let that sink in. Not per game but overall. He didn't shoot a single FT in two games against OKC. Shot 1 FT in 3 games against Boston and 2 FTs in 3 games against Cleveland. How is that even possible?
Like when the games matter most, you get the most passive, lethargic, uninspired version of Bridges. If this team gets past Detroit, be ready for Bridges getting 10points per game against Boston. It is insane to say but there is a possibility he could end up not shooting a single FT in that series despite averaging 35+minutes.

[Jalen Bluntson]

We don't get OG if we got Mitchell

We were never seriously getting DM. Ainge played us to get the Cavs back to the table with a better offer. We were used like we always are when teams/players want leverage or more money/assets in trade. Two years later we are still listening to people crying about this. Two months of trade talks? Please. Ainge was playing the Knicks for either a ridiculous package or to get a better offer from someone else. That's when Leon walked away. AINGE HATES THE KNICKS.

And I think walking away from it at that time was the right move. Obviously you can always go back and point at Cavs success right now as proof that the midget backcourt works. But keep in mind Cleveland has two durable, mobile, athletic, great defending 7 footer up front. One of them DPOY candidate. The Knicks have Mitch (plays 30 games a season) and KAT (little defense). Bein cautious with a JB-DM backcourt was the rational call IMO. Giving up 5 FRPs for Bridges was insanity.

In those infamous 8 games Bridges averaged:

13points/2rebounds/2assists on 45% and 28%. He shot 3 FTs in all those 8 games combined. Let that sink in. Not per game but overall. He didn't shoot a single FT in two games against OKC. Shot 1 FT in 3 games against Boston and 2 FTs in 3 games against Cleveland. How is that even possible?
Like when the games matter most, you get the most passive, lethargic, uninspired version of Bridges. If this team gets past Detroit, be ready for Bridges getting 10points per game against Boston. It is insane to say but there is a possibility he could end up not shooting a single FT in that series despite averaging 35+minutes.

I agree we overpaid. The last two picks are too much. Oh well.

We have yet to face anyone at full steam. We were one day old and two weeks old for two of those games. We choked away at least two of those games. Boston has been the Knicks killer this season. Again...we have yet to play any of them at full strength. We were still working on chemistry and still are. Maybe this isn't the year but, there is a very good core of 7-8 guys here. Build on it. Keep developing youth as we go. Fun times honestly.