Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT

[BKlutch]

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That's a betting company. His talent is without question, but do people think KD has the character qualities to fit well with our team?

[Barcs]

I understand that Knicks fans are frustrated and think everything is a failure because they didn't get to the finals, but this isn't a bad team by any stretch. They just aren't the best team. They are talking about adding another marquee player, but how do you do that without hurting the team?

Trading KAT is the only way you fit another superstar on the roster salary wise. I like Mitch on defense and KAT is decent on offense, but they are both 1 way players. If there is a way to trade both for a 2 way player, I'm in. If there is a way to bring in a "6th man of the year" type of player for the bench I'm in.

Other than that I don't think the roster needs THAT much change. I thought they made too much change last year. They could have just added Bridges and left everything else intact, but who really knows how that works out.

I just have a feeling they are going to make another Kat type of move this year, but hope they don't revamp too much. Last year we lost Randle, Donte and Hartenstein. That's big turnover.

[Reign23]

Love KAT and think that we had an awesome season. Hope he stays.

[Reign23]

If we trade him for KD.. I don't know. Wouldn't do it. Obv he is a monster when healthy, but at this point of his career, do you trust him to go through a 100 games?

[seren]

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If Thibs gave this more of a chance and the lineup still sucked, I would be more down to trade KAT. But he never gave this a real opportunity. I think there's something there.

Another data point that shows how something seemingly obvious so overlooked by Thibs and his stubbornness. He couldn’t find any smaller lineups to play this obvious combination throughout a whole season? Unbelievable

[nedleeds]

If we trade him for KD.. I don't know. Wouldn't do it. Obv he is a monster when healthy, but at this point of his career, do you trust him to go through a 100 games?

Who cares? He expires and vaporizes KATs cap killer in 1 trade with at least a decent ceiling. If he blows his leg up in game 5 then just rest everyone and collect the only 1st we control for the next 6 **** years.

[JayTWill]

Going back decades, in Bob Lanier's second year training camp, Pistons coach Earl Lloyd brought in retired Bill Russell to tutor him on defense. Lanier was a bit like Kat in that he was a heavy 6'11 guy with a sweet shooting touch but not a great defender. I'm not sure KAT needs Hakeem for offensive tutoring but for defense yes, Hakeem or someone else. Patrick Ewing has been a coach, he works for the team now, why not him? A defensive boot camp, as well as serious conditioning would go a long way

Hakeem had an endless amount of moves under the basket. Kat gets called for too many fouls. He needs to become less predictable and much more
elusive and deceptive in getting to the rim. Hakeem is the man for that with all due respect to Pat.

I don't know. Part of me feels like attempting to give KAT more of an offensive arsenal would just give him new ways to pick up stupid fouls and make poor decisions. I'd rather him get better at making the simple play. Taking the open shot, making the quick pass, setting screens,etc. It already feels like he is doing too much sometimes and is simply out of control far too often.

[thebuzzardman]

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That'll be an excellent defensive pairing

[thebuzzardman]

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If Thibs gave this more of a chance and the lineup still sucked, I would be more down to trade KAT. But he never gave this a real opportunity. I think there's something there.

If you look at the net ratings - there's a 21.4 point difference between the two lineups.

Hart with JB, Bridges, OG and KAT: -6.2
McBride with JB, Bridges, OG and KAT: +15.2

This is really something that needs to be explored, and maybe Hart should come off the bench or shouldn't be untouchable in trades.

Not faulting you, but there's a lot of BS with these +/- stats that people post, and at least 50% of the time it's agenda driven.

Oh, look at the Knicks with KAT on but Brunson off, or Brunson on with Hart or some lineup with Hart vs McBride.

And people completely ignore if the lineups are playing starters or the bench.

People do the same thing with the +/- of the starters vs the bench: "Oh, look how much better the bench is doing"
Yeah, they are playing the other teams 2nd unit.

[whocares1]

If we trade him for KD.. I don't know. Wouldn't do it. Obv he is a monster when healthy, but at this point of his career, do you trust him to go through a 100 games?

Who cares? He expires and vaporizes KATs cap killer in 1 trade with at least a decent ceiling. If he blows his leg up in game 5 then just rest everyone and collect the only 1st we control for the next 6 **** years.

If you think the Knicks would ever have the intention of punting a whole season for a 17 year old kid if KD goes down then you’re out of your mind.

[whocares1]

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If Thibs gave this more of a chance and the lineup still sucked, I would be more down to trade KAT. But he never gave this a real opportunity. I think there's something there.

If you look at the net ratings - there's a 21.4 point difference between the two lineups.

Hart with JB, Bridges, OG and KAT: -6.2
McBride with JB, Bridges, OG and KAT: +15.2

This is really something that needs to be explored, and maybe Hart should come off the bench or shouldn't be untouchable in trades.

Not faulting you, but there's a lot of BS with these +/- stats that people post, and at least 50% of the time it's agenda driven.

Oh, look at the Knicks with KAT on but Brunson off, or Brunson on with Hart or some lineup with Hart vs McBride.

And people completely ignore if the lineups are playing starters or the bench.

People do the same thing with the +/- of the starters vs the bench: "Oh, look how much better the bench is doing"
Yeah, they are playing the other teams 2nd unit.

Also depends on the opposing team. Some teams run a first unit and a second unit, other teams stagger especially in the playoffs. It’s odd to see a full bench lineup in the playoffs.

[BKlutch]

Read on Twitter

If Thibs gave this more of a chance and the lineup still sucked, I would be more down to trade KAT. But he never gave this a real opportunity. I think there's something there.

If you look at the net ratings - there's a 21.4 point difference between the two lineups.

Hart with JB, Bridges, OG and KAT: -6.2
McBride with JB, Bridges, OG and KAT: +15.2

This is really something that needs to be explored, and maybe Hart should come off the bench or shouldn't be untouchable in trades.

Not faulting you, but there's a lot of BS with these +/- stats that people post, and at least 50% of the time it's agenda driven.

Oh, look at the Knicks with KAT on but Brunson off, or Brunson on with Hart or some lineup with Hart vs McBride.

And people completely ignore if the lineups are playing starters or the bench.

People do the same thing with the +/- of the starters vs the bench: "Oh, look how much better the bench is doing"
Yeah, they are playing the other teams 2nd unit.

I understand the problem with +/-, net rating, etc. But Tommy Beer doesn't really seem to be agenda driven, so I can't dismiss this out of hand. It's unlikely that the 4 + Hart/Deuce were facing the other teams' benches, so if I had the ability to do so, I'd analyze the quality of the opposing team for each of those ratings and see if there's validity. Hart failed the eye test in many games, but also did well in a bunch of games. Still worth looking into this issue.

[thebuzzardman]

If you look at the net ratings - there's a 21.4 point difference between the two lineups.

Hart with JB, Bridges, OG and KAT: -6.2
McBride with JB, Bridges, OG and KAT: +15.2

This is really something that needs to be explored, and maybe Hart should come off the bench or shouldn't be untouchable in trades.

Not faulting you, but there's a lot of BS with these +/- stats that people post, and at least 50% of the time it's agenda driven.

Oh, look at the Knicks with KAT on but Brunson off, or Brunson on with Hart or some lineup with Hart vs McBride.

And people completely ignore if the lineups are playing starters or the bench.

People do the same thing with the +/- of the starters vs the bench: "Oh, look how much better the bench is doing"
Yeah, they are playing the other teams 2nd unit.

I understand the problem with +/-, net rating, etc. But Tommy Beer doesn't really seem to be agenda driven, so I can't dismiss this out of hand. It's unlikely that the 4 + Hart/Deuce were facing the other teams' benches, so if I had the ability to do so, I'd analyze the quality of the opposing team for each of those ratings and see if there's validity. Hart failed the eye test in many games, but also did well in a bunch of games. Still worth looking into this issue.

The two issues with Hart are height and lack of 3 point shooting. And that the team traded for KAT.

Why trade for a defensive liability to try to be 5 out, to play with a defensively challenged Brunson, then shrimp out at the 4, with a player allergic to shooting the 3?
It's dumb.

Upgrade Hart in the starting lineup or move on from KAT.

[BKlutch]

Not faulting you, but there's a lot of BS with these +/- stats that people post, and at least 50% of the time it's agenda driven.

Oh, look at the Knicks with KAT on but Brunson off, or Brunson on with Hart or some lineup with Hart vs McBride.

And people completely ignore if the lineups are playing starters or the bench.

People do the same thing with the +/- of the starters vs the bench: "Oh, look how much better the bench is doing"
Yeah, they are playing the other teams 2nd unit.

I understand the problem with +/-, net rating, etc. But Tommy Beer doesn't really seem to be agenda driven, so I can't dismiss this out of hand. It's unlikely that the 4 + Hart/Deuce were facing the other teams' benches, so if I had the ability to do so, I'd analyze the quality of the opposing team for each of those ratings and see if there's validity. Hart failed the eye test in many games, but also did well in a bunch of games. Still worth looking into this issue.

The two issues with Hart are height and lack of 3 point shooting. And that the team traded for KAT.

Why trade for a defensive liability to try to be 5 out, to play with a defensively challenged Brunson, then shrimp out at the 4, with a player allergic to shooting the 3?
It's dumb.

Upgrade Hart in the starting lineup or move on from KAT.

You may be on to something here.

[thebuzzardman]

I understand the problem with +/-, net rating, etc. But Tommy Beer doesn't really seem to be agenda driven, so I can't dismiss this out of hand. It's unlikely that the 4 + Hart/Deuce were facing the other teams' benches, so if I had the ability to do so, I'd analyze the quality of the opposing team for each of those ratings and see if there's validity. Hart failed the eye test in many games, but also did well in a bunch of games. Still worth looking into this issue.

The two issues with Hart are height and lack of 3 point shooting. And that the team traded for KAT.

Why trade for a defensive liability to try to be 5 out, to play with a defensively challenged Brunson, then shrimp out at the 4, with a player allergic to shooting the 3?
It's dumb.

Upgrade Hart in the starting lineup or move on from KAT.

You may be on to something here.

It's why I believe the KD or JJJ rumors, though each one is different.

Knicks might try to put JJJ and KAT together
Might try to put KD out there with Mitch instead.

Hey, might be a good idea to try and match up with Siakam/Turner or KP/Horford/Kornet or Mobley/Allen, but what do I know.

I guess the Knicks can keep running out undersized 3's and 4's. That'll work. Especially when one of them won't shoot 3s.

[Pr0nzingis]

hey peeps, just a reminder - requiring towns and brunson to be good defenders also means y'all willing to see them get into foul trouble

wonder why brunhim got that 5 fouls in record time in a playoff game? because he tried to play defense. thats why

I'm pretty sure it was because he was tired. And we know who's fault that was.

[Phish Tank]

KAT ain't the problem, Thibs was.

[El Poochio]

How can you play that many minutes and still be fat? We gotta fat shame this dude to get in shape and stop with the stupid fouls

Spoiler:

[1993Playoffs]

I’d move on from the KAT experiment too. Don’t think he can be the 1/2nd option on a championship team.

[Jeff Van Gully]

hey peeps, just a reminder - requiring towns and brunson to be good defenders also means y'all willing to see them get into foul trouble

wonder why brunhim got that 5 fouls in record time in a playoff game? because he tried to play defense. thats why

I'm pretty sure it was because he was tired. And we know who's fault that was.

off 35mpg? he and KAT?