Knicks Vs. Magic PG Discomfiture

[j4remi]

I would agree with this but close to 80% of this roster wont be on the team next year.

Building block for what, Melo in the system ok maybe I see that.

Building block for what, Fisher learning to coach, maybe a little (but coaching these misfits).

Look at the guys getting minutes this year.

Larkin (we didn't extend)
Dalembert (won't be here next year)
Acy (maybe be back for the minimum)
Jason Smith (won't be back)
Amare (wont be back)
JR (wont be back)
Shumpert (maybe but he might price himself out)
THjr (maybe)
Bargnani (wont be back)
Calderon (hurt - probably be back)
Pablo (might be back)

Early and the greek freeks older broth probably are two players that will be back and one doesn't get run and the other isn't even on the roster.

Who do you want to see develop? Who do you want to see grow. JR and his 30 minutes a night?

Amare and his 25 minutes. Dally in his 20 minutes?

These guys aren't growing they are just playing for another contract on another team. Melo is building a report with any of these guys because they all will be gone, some by the trade deadline.

This year is a holding period. I would prefer to see Cole Aldrich and Cleanthony Early more as well as even Tim Hardaway (maybe build up trade value) just so that we can see if they have a future with this team or.

Everyone else can go to ****

Your list of who will be here and won't is wishful thinking.

JR has a player option and many of the other players won't be back at the contract value they're on now but could return for the right price (Amare, Smith, Bargs and Larkin are all in this place). Shump is a good possibility to return, Phil likes him and his RFA status means we can splurge and than just match his contract (unless the new CBA blows this possibility which I honestly am unaware of if that's the case). THJr as a maybe? Why?

Again, we aren't 10 games into the season and you're writing guys off...it's a reach. Early doesn't get run...over the first ten games. Wear has gotten some shots and would likely be a cheap role player to keep. Acy was told he'd be brought back after the trade happened.

All of that aside, you minimize Melo figuring his role as the KEY figure in the system and Fisher figuring out the coaching...those are the two most important aspects of our future. Toss everything else out moving forward and that still makes this a building block year because your franchise player and head coach are going to be two of the most important pieces to the team period.

As far as Early and Cole getting more minutes..I'd guess Cole is less likely to be brought back then some of your sure things to go. Early's development can happen in practice, he doesn't have to be on the court visibly to develop into a good player.

Culture change was the theme of the offseason and purposeful losing doesn't do anything for culture change, rather it ingrains an "it's alright to lose" attitude in our first year under this new management.

More than anything though, I keep having to go back to we've barely started the season and I'm not sure if people had exorbitant (delusional) expectations or are getting caught up in the present (because players learning a new system especially this one tend to struggle early so why would you not expect them to improve at least somewhat), but I think a lot of this tank talk is premature and just doesn't jive with me.

[moocow007]

And is it just me or is Kurt Rambis a little too happy about the Knicks struggles? Just hearing him being interviewed, it's odd. I don't trust him one bit.

[j4remi]

Before anyone blames Fisher, that's 100% on Jr. He went full retahd.

it would have been sorta nice if THjr didn't go full Starks game 7 too


man, 1-8 and 0-5 from 3

uggg

THJ and Jason Smith definitely squandered some of our best opportunities last night. I don't expect that to be a running issue, both are better than that (at shooting...it's the reason they're NBA players). It's especially painful because we lost by two and those guys had GREAT looks from their sweet spots and just sucked it up.

[god shammgod]

Maybe Phil really is planning on tanking all along?

it would explain the crazy rotations and constant lineup changes. so maybe they are tanking. it's either that or it's a plan to drive me totally insane. either way, it's working. it's really really working.

[j4remi]

To simplify, if you didn't come into this season saying "we need to tank for a top pick" ...then 9 games into the season you really should just be patient. I keep mentioning the variables because I feel like it should be obvious but

New Coach
New System
New Management
Missing 2 projected Starters
Tough opening schedule

...If you didn't see this coming, I'm a little bit confused. My optimistic projection was 4 wins in the first 10 games and I knew that was a reach.

[dakomish23]

Melo had 1 ast on paper. The haters will come out "look he's a ball hog" , "doesn't make anyone better". What they won't see is the 7-8 kick outs Melo did to JSmith and others who missed open shots. 2 of this go in, we win the game and the haters go silent for a day.

We never seem to get everyone clicking on the same day during this losing streak. Or even most of our guys. JSmith and THJ were horrible yesterday while Shump had foul trouble all game. Always something

[mpharris36]

Your list of who will be here and won't is wishful thinking.

JR has a player option and many of the other players won't be back at the contract value they're on now but could return for the right price (Amare, Smith, Bargs and Larkin are all in this place). Shump is a good possibility to return, Phil likes him and his RFA status means we can splurge and than just match his contract (unless the new CBA blows this possibility which I honestly am unaware of if that's the case). THJr as a maybe? Why?

Again, we aren't 10 games into the season and you're writing guys off...it's a reach. Early doesn't get run...over the first ten games. Wear has gotten some shots and would likely be a cheap role player to keep. Acy was told he'd be brought back after the trade happened.

All of that aside, you minimize Melo figuring his role as the KEY figure in the system and Fisher figuring out the coaching...those are the two most important aspects of our future. Toss everything else out moving forward and that still makes this a building block year because your franchise player and head coach are going to be two of the most important pieces to the team period.

As far as Early and Cole getting more minutes..I'd guess Cole is less likely to be brought back then some of your sure things to go. Early's development can happen in practice, he doesn't have to be on the court visibly to develop into a good player.

Culture change was the theme of the offseason and purposeful losing doesn't do anything for culture change, rather it ingrains an "it's alright to lose" attitude in our first year under this new management.

More than anything though, I keep having to go back to we've barely started the season and I'm not sure if people had exorbitant (delusional) expectations or are getting caught up in the present (because players learning a new system especially this one tend to struggle early so why would you not expect them to improve at least somewhat), but I think a lot of this tank talk is premature and just doesn't jive with me.

JR will be traded for an expiring (at least one would hope). Memphis for Tayshawn Prince or someone like that just to clear his money. Phil would be making a huge mistake by giving this guy the opportunity to opt into that player option.

Amare and Bargs with a chance to come back? Absolutely not. If they are playing well they will get more than the minimum (all we would be offering them). If they are playing like trash why would we want them back?


2 point novak makes over 3 million coming off offseason surgery, why do you think he would take less? We are going to part ways with him too.

I am a little facetious about using the "tanking" words. I understand we aren't personally throwing games but losing doesn't bother me and probably will be more beneficial then mediocre winning.

watching JR jack up 16 shots last night is not changing culture, do you agree or disagree with that?

[ag3]

Melo had 1 ast on paper. The haters will come out "look he's a ball hog" , "doesn't make anyone better". What they won't see is the 7-8 kick outs Melo did to JSmith and others who missed open shots. 2 of this go in, we win the game and the haters go silent for a day.

We never seem to get everyone clicking on the same day during this losing streak. Or even most of our guys. JSmith and THJ were horrible yesterday while Shump had foul trouble all game. Always something

Haters will go away if he Knicks beat the Orlando Magic by 5 points?
Orlando is a terrible team and a decent team beats them easily by 15+.
Knicks are far from decent and are a bottom 5 team right now.

[delvec19]

JR should have kept heading to the basket for a closer shot.. bad decision by him and Fisher.

I still have hope.. remember Jason Kidd's coaching start last season and how well they turned it around?

Except the Nets were supposed to be good last year and had actual talent. We have Melo and that's it.

[Iron Mantis]

I just want to see much more cohesive defense; everything else is irrelevant.

[mpharris36]

To simplify, if you didn't come into this season saying "we need to tank for a top pick" ...then 9 games into the season you really should just be patient. I keep mentioning the variables because I feel like it should be obvious but

New Coach
New System
New Management
Missing 2 projected Starters
Tough opening schedule

...If you didn't see this coming, I'm a little bit confused. My optimistic projection was 4 wins in the first 10 games and I knew that was a reach.

I knew we weren't going to be good, but you can't explain to me the crazy rotations (no consistency) and the evaluating process comment from Phil.

That doesn't sound like, we are doing everything right now to win games. Tanking may not be the correct word to use. But there is absolutely not developing going on.

Orlando is developing, watching guys like Payton, Vucivec, and Harris. Utah is developing with Hayward and Favors. Minnesota is developing with Wiggins, LaVine and there other young players.

I just don't see most of these guys on the roster next year or playing major minutes so yes I feel this season is just "blah".

[mpharris36]

Maybe Phil really is planning on tanking all along?

it would explain the crazy rotations and constant lineup changes. so maybe they are tanking. it's either that or it's a plan to drive me totally insane. either way, it's working. it's really really working.

its driving me nuts because 10 games in they might have me on the train of losing might be more beneficial than winning at this point.

[Knicks_Fan2]

Maybe Phil really is planning on tanking all along?

it would explain the crazy rotations and constant lineup changes. so maybe they are tanking. it's either that or it's a plan to drive me totally insane. either way, it's working. it's really really working.

The plan is not to tank but to examine all of these players and where they fit best. If that results in more losses, then so be it.

In reality, though, I really think they wanted to start Calderon and Bargs and just arent able to so are trying to find something that works until they return.

[mpharris36]

I just want to see much more cohesive defense; everything else is irrelevant.

trust you wont be seeing that with Amare and Jason smith playing together. One of the most confusing rotations Fisher has decided to use.

[NoLayupRule]

Before anyone blames Fisher, that's 100% on Jr. He went full retahd.

it would have been sorta nice if THjr didn't go full Starks game 7 too


man, 1-8 and 0-5 from 3

uggg

THJ and Jason Smith definitely squandered some of our best opportunities last night. I don't expect that to be a running issue, both are better than that (at shooting...it's the reason they're NBA players). It's especially painful because we lost by two and those guys had GREAT looks from their sweet spots and just sucked it up.

for sure but in his defense Jason Smith had like 17 points which was one of the very few effective point totals of a player last night

I hate to say it but we need Bargnani

those shots smith and Acy and Dally and Amare are getting are Bargnani's cookies

[Knicksfan1992]

It was a bad shot because it was an airball. If JR wants to identify himself as a shooter and basically waste his athletic gifts, then he needs to have some accountability for actually making his shots.

I'd call it a bad shot because if he chose to accelerate to the basket Fournier would be on his hip or behind him and he'd have a much better shot to tie the game but he chose to go for a game winner.

Ehh he shot it with about 1.1 left.. he wasn't getting much further. Honestly, looking back at it I didn't mind the shot so much, I blame the coach for not putting it in the right person's hands off the inbound. You don't have time to set up a perfect melo iso at the elbow with 3.3 seconds left by putting it in someone else's hands first. I'd much rather have Melo taking that pull-up than JR obviously. I just think Fisher misjudged the time left given the play he drew up.

[mpharris36]

for sure but in his defense Jason Smith had like 17 points which was one of the very few effective point totals of a player last night

I hate to say it but we need Bargnani

those shots smith and Acy and Dally and Amare are getting are Bargnani's cookies

first of all Jason Smith had 10 points last night...not 17

and he took 12 shots to get those 10 points. For 2 point novak who only takes wideopen shots and for someone who is a butcher defensively that wide open mid range shot better be going in at a 60-70% clip.

40% for wide open shots is awful.

I could of made 5-12 last night. All his shots are wide open

Now someone like Melo will shoot lower because he is asked to take contested shots. And even Melo shot 58% last night.

[bigfnjoe96]

Maybe Phil really is planning on tanking all along?

it would explain the crazy rotations and constant lineup changes. so maybe they are tanking. it's either that or it's a plan to drive me totally insane. either way, it's working. it's really really working.

its driving me nuts because 10 games in they might have me on the train of losing might be more beneficial than winning at this point.

Fisher needs to set his rotations already and stick to it. Yesterday off a back to back every Orlando starter players more than 30 minutes (Except Payton) Only 1 of our starters played 30 minutes and we all know who that was.

I'm gonna say it cause it needs to be said, If STAT was out there during the same minutes late in the 4th that Slovak was out there, he makes 2 of those mid range jumpers and we win the game...

[j4remi]

JR will be traded for an expiring (at least one would hope). Memphis for Tayshawn Prince or someone like that just to clear his money. Phil would be making a huge mistake by giving this guy the opportunity to opt into that player option.

In what dream scenario do we pull that off without giving up assets? Until it comes even close to happening, I'll keep calling it wishful thinking.

Amare and Bargs with a chance to come back? Absolutely not. If they are playing well they will get more than the minimum (all we would be offering them). If they are playing like trash why would we want them back?

How many teams are gonna risk much of anything on these guys even if they're playing well? The injury issue is obvious. For the minimum, one of them could be a nice end of the bench player (leaning towards Bargs because of Amare's personality though). Their contracts are what make them so irritating but both guys are legitimate in terms of having scoring ability and for the right price (minimum) it's not a bad investment.

2 point novak makes over 3 million coming off offseason surgery, why do you think he would take less? We are going to part ways with him too.

If 2 point Novak keeps playing at this level, he's gonna have to take a paycut. I'm guessing that we gave him extra money to take a 1 year deal instead of signing for 2 or 3 and less money other places. Key being, that if you give him anything more than a year, he definitely becomes a cheaper piece.

I am a little facetious about using the "tanking" words. I understand we aren't personally throwing games but losing doesn't bother me and probably will be more beneficial then mediocre winning.

Losing/Winning doesn't matter this year, that's my whole point. Just watch the guys for who might be worth keeping, who is showing growth and what skills are excelling...all of that is more important than our record because if impacts who we keep, let go and what type of players we go after in FA. It's an evaluation year, the record is secondary.

watching JR jack up 16 shots last night is not changing culture, do you agree or disagree with that?

Context is key here, who last night deserved more shots? If there isn't a better alternative (and last night there wasn't), then how can you even complain? Smith's third quarter play was the start of our momentum going into the fourth (consecutive threes, played within the system). The closing play was horrific, he deserves to be clowned for that ish...but Jason Smith was horrible in the second half, Shump was in foul trouble, Melo was in foul trouble, Hardaway was 1-8...so who's left? Amare and JR, pick your poison because either way you'd be pointing out FGA's and complaining about same old guys take the same old amount of shots if you ignore the fact that every other alternative was playing badly or glued to the bench because of fouls.

[DaGawd]

And is it just me or is Kurt Rambis a little too happy about the Knicks struggles? Just hearing him being interviewed, it's odd. I don't trust him one bit.

Hell even Fish doesnt seem to phased. I really think Phil is gunning for a top 5 lottery pick. The roster he built this off season IS indeed conducive for that idc what anyone says. We have a bunch of bum ass players plus melo..and one dimensional player.. Sounds like a very bad team to me.