PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition

[magnumt]

Tan would be a good mentor for him. Hopefully he can pickup some things from him before he retires.

--Mags

Don't really know who Tan is, but he's worked with Hakeem Olajuwon in the past.

Sorry, my phone autocorrected it. It suppose to say Taj.

--Mags

[Dr. Detfink]

We're still missing a solid SF. We're not getting much offense from that position.

THJr will be the SF, or CLee (barring a trade)

I know. But I talking about next year and beyond. My guess is that Lee will be gone before next season.

I would have thought Lee, O'Quinn, maybe even Willy would have been gone before the Knicks drafted Ntilikina. I'm not sure these players have the value to convince other teams to give some decent kind of compensation.

Knicks need to tank hard to GET that Doncic player IF they plan to continue with Hornacek system.

[thebuzzardman]

Not sure. I watched a wolves stream. And they had Thibs miked LOUD.

The Wolves crew sits right behind where Thibs stands. He wasn't mic'd at all. He's ambient noise.

Damn. He's going to need vocal cord replacement surgery any second now

[Sark]

What's with the cigarette title btw? Did someone pick up a new habit?

[thebuzzardman]

[ChaosHamster]

What's with the cigarette title btw? Did someone pick up a new habit?

rumor KP is smoking in the hall of his apartment building.

[ozwizard8]

Kp has got to show up to camp at least 247 pounds next season. If you are going to lose 7 pounds during every season then 240 pounds keeps you strong enough to post up those small ball 4's and absorb contact better on drives so you can finish through the contact. Seriously a 7'3 guy that weighs 235 pounds or less is not going to establish deep post position against anyone. I bet some posters here could easily take down kp in a wrestling match because of his lanky frame and lack of leverage.

He needs to spend the summer with Enes and follow his workout routine

This is something i always wonder:

If a teammate is a good defensive player, does a teammate who lacks that ability on the defensive end go to him and say, "Can you help me with my defense?", or is there too much pride for that to happen?

You know Enes sucks on D right?

You cant teach athleticism, height or even the energy.

The way Noah played defense -before injuries- and Draymond Green's defense . You cant teach motor, instict, feel of the game.
KP is good defender just because he has that height.
Kanter has slow foot. Below average athleticism and height to defend the rim.

Players should be able to learn where to stand, how to move on D. They can give more effort on D with some mental help. But thats it.

[ozwizard8]

Frank needs to develop a left hand when dribbling. Holy ****. I know he's young, but how the **** does a PG not have a left hand?

Frank has a long way to earn a max contract.
On the other hand DSJ performs like max contracted player from the first year.
Drafting Frank should have make Knicks to tank this year.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Frank needs to develop a left hand when dribbling. Holy ****. I know he's young, but how the **** does a PG not have a left hand?

Frank has a long way to earn a max contract.
On the other hand DSJ performs like max contracted player from the first year.
Drafting Frank should have make Knicks to tank this year.

You do realize DSJr hasn’t been good this year, right?

[MP4LIFE]

Frank needs to develop a left hand when dribbling. Holy ****. I know he's young, but how the **** does a PG not have a left hand?

Frank has a long way to earn a max contract.
On the other hand DSJ performs like max contracted player from the first year.
Drafting Frank should have make Knicks to tank this year.

Max contract? Calm down bro. None of those guys are worth anything more than a rookie contract.

[Mecca]

Frank needs to develop a left hand when dribbling. Holy ****. I know he's young, but how the **** does a PG not have a left hand?

Frank has a long way to earn a max contract.
On the other hand DSJ performs like max contracted player from the first year.
Drafting Frank should have make Knicks to tank this year.

DSJ averaging like 13 turnovers a game and is given free reign to chuck and duck. DSJ and Frank are impressive, but have long ways to go

[3toheadmelo]

Frank needs to develop a left hand when dribbling. Holy ****. I know he's young, but how the **** does a PG not have a left hand?

Frank has a long way to earn a max contract.
On the other hand DSJ performs like max contracted player from the first year.
Drafting Frank should have make Knicks to tank this year.

DSJ averaging like 13 turnovers a game and is given free reign to chuck and duck. DSJ and Frank are impressive, but have long ways to go

smith's turnovers has cut down A LOT as of recent, but i agree they both have long ways to go.

i don't think it's fair to compare them both rn tbh. one looks like a stud on offense, other looks like a stud on defense. so they're both one way players lol. i think it's best to compare them like 2 years from now. see who's improved and who hasn't.

[br7knicks]

Frank needs to develop a left hand when dribbling. Holy ****. I know he's young, but how the **** does a PG not have a left hand?

Frank has a long way to earn a max contract.
On the other hand DSJ performs like max contracted player from the first year.
Drafting Frank should have make Knicks to tank this year.

DSjr, on dallas? because he has not played like a max contract player at all.


who are you speaking of then?

[justin12140]

I think a lot of people on this board are a little to harsh on Frank. He's definitely struggling right now, but that's to be expected of a 19 year old PG (literally the youngest rotation player in the league). Not every guy is going to light it up their first year like Lillard, Irving, and Mitchell. Chris Dunn looked terrible his rookie year. D'Angello Russell was called a bust. Chauncey Billups was traded. Kyle Lowry was a Journey man until he got to the raptors. It takes time for these guys to come into their own.

What frank needs to focus on going into next year is working on his handles and being more aggressive in the PnR. If he can keep defenses guessing as to what he is going to do, that will really start to open things up for him (Teams know right now that he can't handle pressure / traps and will pass out of PnR's 99% of the time).

[Jay10]

He needs to spend the summer with Enes and follow his workout routine

This is something i always wonder:

If a teammate is a good defensive player, does a teammate who lacks that ability on the defensive end go to him and say, "Can you help me with my defense?", or is there too much pride for that to happen?

You know Enes sucks on D right?

You cant teach athleticism, height or even the energy.

The way Noah played defense -before injuries- and Draymond Green's defense . You cant teach motor, instict, feel of the game.
KP is good defender just because he has that height.
Kanter has slow foot. Below average athleticism and height to defend the rim.

Players should be able to learn where to stand, how to move on D. They can give more effort on D with some mental help. But thats it.

I was using D as an example for a player that struggles on defense.

I was really referring to Kristaps working out with Kanter.

[dakomish23]

Naah, the funny thing is, that's what you really do. You get your panties in a bunch whenever someone proves you wrong, thus you land in a lot of arguments.

You asked to "systematically back up your points with facts." First off, systematically doesn't even work in that sentence so stop trying to use larger words to make your point more accurate. Newsflash, that's not how it works. Go ask any Law student or journalism professor. The first thing they'll tell you is how to say more with less.

Lastly, THJ has posted 20/5/4 and 1.4 SPG with good peripheral percentages and you keep saying those numbers are "6th man" numbers. On what team? lol JR Smith was never as consistent as THJ has been since he got the jitters out of his system.

You want a 3 and D guy next to Frank. You'd get smoked trying to compete in the "build a teams" by us if that's your idea. Frank needs an assertive 2 guard that is going to penetrate and shoot difficult shots when no one is open. You put Frank with a 3 and D guy and you're not getting any dribble penetration outside of your guards and most likely you're getting a lack of scoring.

You're wrong dakomish. I mostly avoid confrontations with you because you always think you're right. Ask the majority of this board if THJ is a 6th man or starting caliber player. I'd make a sig bet for a month with you that the majority would say he's a starting caliber player.

Lastly, EG is 6'3 and was a starter his entire career. He moved to the 6th man because Beverley was the perfect fit for Harden, they had no backup PG, and this year CP3 is a starter. Timmy is better than EG.

No, I won't throw out my argument about double dipping in FA at SG because you already allocated 16 million per of cap space to him. You wanna throw another 12 at Avery Bradley and spend 30 million on SG next year? Ok Isiah Thomas.

But yeah, 20/5/4 1.4 SPG 45% from the field 36% from 3 are 6th man numbers.

Lets make a bet that more people think THJ is a starter than a 6th man.

I’ve seen some dudes on this board who like to dig their heels in, but this is denial taken to a whole other level.

First things first. Systematically is a big word? In what profession is that considered a big word? That’s a common word in every business environment I’ve worked in.

On your THJ arguments, I countered on everyone of your claims:

Gets to the FT line a lot - not even top 50 per game
Top 8 SG - I listed 8 guys who everyone will say is better short of Tim Sr
Good numbers means THJ should start - Gordon had good numbers and didn’t start
Can’t double dip on SGs. - HOU not only double dipped when they had the BEST - not 10-12ish range - THE BEST - SG in the game. And to top it off they traded for another one. How’d that work out for them?
Where THJ ranks amongst SGs means he should start - Where would Gordon rank last year and where does he rank now.

On your incorrect observation regarding my stubborness on this board:

The funniest part about your latest post is in my first response to you I said I could be wrong.

But I thought I can’t admit if I’m wrong Mecca? What’s good? Why would I type that out if I’m so set on being right?

On the sig bet - you want to make a bet that this board filled with posters who defend all things Knicks 24/7 is going to say THJ is a starter? WTH would that prove? This is a group that W’s adrolling over the prospects of Tony Wroten. I wonder how they’ll vote about a guy who’s actually good
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Stop getting upset & resorting to personal jabs when someone doesn’t agree with you.
Make a better case. Come at me with sound, logical basketball arguments. I’m more than happy to discuss all things Knicks with anybody on this board.

I just demolished your entire stance and I didn’t have to take a personal jab at you.

What do you think a law or journalism professor would say about that?

1. You didn't demolish anything I said. Your stats backed up my thoughts if anything so thanks for that.

2. I only gave you the same energy you gave me. You don't like it do you? I've seen BnO ether you for years now. I've ethered you on past topics (Melo, Frank, etc. etc.)

Now to this debate:

1. You want a 3 and D SG next to Frank, correct? Those are your words. I'm going to happily explain to you why that isn't a good idea. When both of your guards are passive and lack dribble penetration and the ability to take difficult shots, your offense is going to tail spin against top defenses in the half-court. Why you may ask? Dribble penetration forces the defense to move out of position to contest the shot, which opens drive and kick opportunities. Also, when both of your guards are more "flow" of game type of players, you run into trouble when going against top defenses. There are times when there is no easy shot to be had through ball movement, thus having a heatcheck player like THJ is incredibly valuable.

2. You continue to say that THJ is a 6th man. What 6th man puts up 20/5/4 with 45% from the field and 36% from 3 with 1.4 SPG. What 6th men average those numbers?? I already said he might not be top 8, but top 12ish? Hell yes. Eric Gordon is only a 6th man now because Beverley is the perfect player next to Harden and now they lucked into a CP3 trade.

3. From game 6 on, I researched the Knicks' best 3 man units. THJ is literally on every single unit. So to say he isn't a starting caliber player.... you're straight up wrong.




Lastly, one more thing you don't understand is that THJ is forced to take difficult shots often because he's the only guard on our team that can create his own shot. Thus, you don't understand that and point him out as a 6th man. When the shot clock drops he's the only player that can move someone or has the ability to take a contested 3 off the dribble. The only other players that create their own shot are KP and Beasley.

Lastly, THJ's numbers since game 6-7 are 20/5/4 45% from the field, 36% from 3. Eric Gordon didn't put those numbers up last year so stop using him. Even then, he's an outlier as he's played 31/33 MPG the last year and a half. Adding on to that, Gordon is an atrocious defender at this stage in his career. He's also a combo guard as he's undersized to play the 2.


Tim Hardaway is a legit 6'6 and strong as an ox. He isn't the liability that Gordon is on the defensive end, thus he doesn't have to be a 2nd unit guy. Lastly, THJ bails the team out when the offense gets stagnant and mundane.

Lastly,

Harden
Butler
Dipo
Klay
Beal
McCollum
Derozan
Mitchell
THJ

If you count Middleton as a 2 guard, you can put him over THJ, but he still is right around 10 in terms of top SG's. He isn't a bad enough defender or small enough that he has to play the 2nd unit. Dakomish you're wrong and you've been ethered once again.

The bar for basketball acumen must be set real low for you in real life for you to present the arguments you made and for you to think that A. You proved your point and B. To be cocky about that staggeringly mediocre display.

You’ve brought up BnO before and tried to say the same thing.

Pull up my back and forth with him that you claim he killed me on. I’ll wait. Should be easy right? It happens all the time you said. Back up this lame attempt at trash talk.

Speaking of BnO, what were the thoughts on this topic by the poster who you brought up?



Frank? As if I’ve had bad things to say about this kid this season, instead of begging for this guy to start. But guess who hasn’t been as supportive? :

Play Burke 25 minutes a night and send Frank to the GLEAGUE

I'm down on Frank a lot recently as well. It's to the point where I wouldn't shutter at moving him to the 2 or 3 and developing him as a Batum or longer Pat Bev type of player.

Now I know I own you b/c once again you’re making up ish that didn’t happen. Just like you tried to claim I was wishing we drafted DSJ after the summer league performance. You real desperate trying to bring other folks into this & lying about things I didn’t say because I’m destroying you.

—————————————-

Class is in session. Now



You must not understand anything about basketball to think personal box score stats are an indication of what’s the best fit for a player on a team. You prove your lack of understanding post after post b/c you go back to them time and again as the only argument you use as proof of why THJ is the best long term starter next to Frank.

“Every team gets 90 pts and 45 rebs”
- JVG

When you’re building a contender, you need at least one elite scoring option between the 1-2-3. THJ isn’t close to that level.

If you are lucky enough to have an elite scorer at the 2, but who needs the ball in his hands, you better pair him with a 3&D guy like HOU did with Beverly. The way you act like THJ is some elite scorer, are you setting the ceiling for Frank as a 3&D guy?

I’m not. He’s a PG who’s always looking to create for others and I want someone like that to have the ball in their hands more, especially with KP not being any type of a facilitator.

Kyrie is elite on offense, so I get the combination. So did you. That’s why you said they were a perfect combination. Now, you’re saying this

Trae Young | Frank Ntilkina back court???

If Frank & THJ is this amazing backcourt combination and perfectly compliment each other, why are you always trying to upgrade it? You don’t want to use cap space on adding another guard but you want to use a lottery pick?



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THJ isn’t a liability on defense? You said so yourself here

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1598546&start=700#p57759944

———————————

3 man lineups? In a debate of putting the best 5 man squad out there, specifically with Frank, you posted data on 3 man lineups?

How about 5 man lineups greater than 30 mins?

Frank Baker MCD Beasley KOQ
+7.2 /115 mins /88th

Jack MCD Lee KP Kanter
+7.2 /48 mins /89th

Frank Lee MCD Beasley KOQ
+6.1 /66 mins /99th

Jack THJ Lee KP Kanter
+5.3 /254 mins /104th

Frank Lee MCD LFT KOQ
+2.4 /47 mins / 118th

That’s the only 5 lineups with a positive net rating.

276 mins without THJ compared to 254 with him.

229 mins better without THJ.

Frank and THJ combo in none of them.

Next best THJ lineup?
THJ Jack Lee KOQ KP
-8.6 /52 mins /186th

In the 192 minutes together, THJ has a 29.1% USG rate

But hey, not looking up the right metrics means you don’t know how wrong your thinking is


———————————

Worst of all, you disrespected one of the greatest songs of all time in the process. Nas would never touch a mic again if he knew that his song was being associated with this pitiful display that does nothing but flaunt your ignorance.

———————————————

All this because I said THJ will make a great 6th man for us in the future and I’m not sure it’s best for Frank long term to pair them together. And I said THJ could prove me wrong

You’re in denial. Just like when you said the triangle had nothing to do with PJax drafting Frank

I know you’re desperate to be viewed as some Knicks guru, but stay in your weight class light weight.