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Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

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What should the Knicks approach be with Frank

Try to develop until prime years (~26) - essentially hold until it's 100% clear what he is
45
30%
Hold and try to develop until the end of rookie contract
64
43%
Hold until season's end/middle of next season to make a decision
13
9%
Look to trade him now for assets and/or a salary dump
23
15%
Other
5
3%
 
Total votes: 150

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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#321 » by Thugger HBC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:46 am

mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
because his defensive skill set is clearly way ahead of his offensive skillset??

i think your exaggerating a little bit, the kid made it to the NBA he isn't a little scared boy in a corner...he's a development piece that needs reps.

It's all mental with Frank. he said it himself that he's always thinking. But right now his confidence is shot. that's not what the g-league is for,


thats not what saikam and murray said. Being able to shoot without the a ton of people watching and the game on TV...who knows if it will work but I don't know how sitting on the bench helps confidence. Like a lot of people say who knows what will and wont help him...but we wont know if we don't find out....

Have you thought that maybe the team knows? Unless you believe you see Frank more than they do.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#322 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:52 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:It's all mental with Frank. he said it himself that he's always thinking. But right now his confidence is shot. that's not what the g-league is for,


thats not what saikam and murray said. Being able to shoot without the a ton of people watching and the game on TV...who knows if it will work but I don't know how sitting on the bench helps confidence. Like a lot of people say who knows what will and wont help him...but we wont know if we don't find out....

Have you thought that maybe the team knows? Unless you believe you see Frank more than they do.


i mean if that were the case then no one would ever be able to question a coaches decision, draft pick, or free agent signing. They could know or they might be handling incorrectly. The only thing I do know through nearly half the season is he hasn't looked any better from last year and you can make the case there has been some regression (especially in his confidence)...so whatever has happened so far isn't working up to this point...

no one in the organization has any ties to frank...the guys who were the main cogs in drafting him are gone. They guys traded for and drafted by the current regime are getting the longer leashes...so in theory this could be the thought process here as well, they might not care as much about franks development...which is possible but also could be short sighted because he isn't tied to the current regime but he could be a useful piece moving forward as well.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#323 » by Thugger HBC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:54 am

mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
thats not what saikam and murray said. Being able to shoot without the a ton of people watching and the game on TV...who knows if it will work but I don't know how sitting on the bench helps confidence. Like a lot of people say who knows what will and wont help him...but we wont know if we don't find out....

Have you thought that maybe the team knows? Unless you believe you see Frank more than they do.


i mean if that were the case then no one would ever be able to question a coaches decision, draft pick, or free agent signing. They could know or they might be handling incorrectly. The only thing I do know through nearly half the season is he hasn't looked any better from last year and you can make the case there has been some regression (especially in his confidence)...so whatever has happened so far isn't working up to this point...

Perhaps he's just a defensive player.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#324 » by Thugger HBC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:55 am

He's gotten his career highs...this year. He has regressed, but it's clearly mental. G-League aint helping with that, sorry it wont.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#325 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:00 am

Thugger HBC wrote:He's gotten his career highs...this year. He has regressed, but it's clearly mental. G-League aint helping with that, sorry it wont.


i mean we both aren't in his head so we don't know for sure. I honestly looking for ways to see how we can fix the issue. I'm open to any ideas...
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#326 » by dakomish23 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:01 am

Cookies4Life wrote:I'm still perplexed as to why he's such a polarizing figure for this fanbase.

Why exactly wouldn't the entire fanbase be behind this kid and root for his development?

Do we forget he was viewed as a long term project coming out of the draft, now people want his head on a plate after about 120 games into his pro career that has been mired with some stupid coaches, dysfunctional rosters and the pressure of developing in such a stressful environment as NYC?

If he didn't show flashes at the very least on the offensive end than I'd be very concerned. he's already eclipsed his career high 3 times this year and this is with Fizdale's unusual rotation patterns of giving multiple DNP's to certain guys on the team.

I thought the plan was to tank and try to get Zion/RJ/Ja? Why wouldn't we want this kid to be getting 30 plus minutes a game right now. Worse case, he develops at a snails pace and helps this team lose games. Best case he starts improving and showing more consistency on the offensive end.

Some people react well to getting DNP's while others not so much. This isn't some 10 year veteran; he's one of the youngest players in the league and we should absolutely be fostering his development by playing him, not having him ride the bench and be a spectator watching terrible players like Hardaway Jr chuck up 20 plus shots.

I'm baffled by this fanbase- I thought the one good quality we all had is we root for our draft picks since we get a connection with them being somewhat "homegrown." He's on a rookie contract, already one of the best defenders on the team and I'd rather roll out there with him seeing at minimum 25 minutes nightly. But most importantly, allowing the kid to work through his mistakes rather than keeping him on such a short leash.

This isn't rocket science- we're trying to tank and we have a bunch of young guys that need minutes in order to develop. it's the perfect time to allow the young kids to get ample PT and see who's a keeper for the future. Guys like Kanter and Lee should be the one's riding the pine, not rookies and 2nd year players.


The last paragraph sums up my frustration from last year as well. We gained nothing from trying to win games last year and we won’t gain anything for trying to win games this year. That’s pretty much the only reason why you would play these older guys.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#327 » by Thugger HBC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:03 am

mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:He's gotten his career highs...this year. He has regressed, but it's clearly mental. G-League aint helping with that, sorry it wont.


i mean we both aren't in his head so we don't know for sure. I honestly looking for ways to see how we can fix the issue. I'm open to any ideas...

It's up to Frank to clear his head.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#328 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:06 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:He's gotten his career highs...this year. He has regressed, but it's clearly mental. G-League aint helping with that, sorry it wont.


i mean we both aren't in his head so we don't know for sure. I honestly looking for ways to see how we can fix the issue. I'm open to any ideas...

It's up to Frank to clear his head.


it is and I would absolutely put it on him. But this isn't AAU basketball this is a team...this franchise invested in him as a raw offensive player...I think Jeff didn't help him this year and Fiz sees some things differently then I do so I will wait and see what he has in store to help Frank through this tough time...
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#329 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:07 am

Cookies4Life wrote:I'm still perplexed as to why he's such a polarizing figure for this fanbase.

Why exactly wouldn't the entire fanbase be behind this kid and root for his development?

Do we forget he was viewed as a long term project coming out of the draft, now people want his head on a plate after about 120 games into his pro career that has been mired with some stupid coaches, dysfunctional rosters and the pressure of developing in such a stressful environment as NYC?

If he didn't show flashes at the very least on the offensive end than I'd be very concerned. he's already eclipsed his career high 3 times this year and this is with Fizdale's unusual rotation patterns of giving multiple DNP's to certain guys on the team.

I thought the plan was to tank and try to get Zion/RJ/Ja? Why wouldn't we want this kid to be getting 30 plus minutes a game right now. Worse case, he develops at a snails pace and helps this team lose games. Best case he starts improving and showing more consistency on the offensive end.

Some people react well to getting DNP's while others not so much. This isn't some 10 year veteran; he's one of the youngest players in the league and we should absolutely be fostering his development by playing him, not having him ride the bench and be a spectator watching terrible players like Hardaway Jr chuck up 20 plus shots.

I'm baffled by this fanbase- I thought the one good quality we all had is we root for our draft picks since we get a connection with them being somewhat "homegrown." He's on a rookie contract, already one of the best defenders on the team and I'd rather roll out there with him seeing at minimum 25 minutes nightly. But most importantly, allowing the kid to work through his mistakes rather than keeping him on such a short leash.

This isn't rocket science- we're trying to tank and we have a bunch of young guys that need minutes in order to develop. it's the perfect time to allow the young kids to get ample PT and see who's a keeper for the future. Guys like Kanter and Lee should be the one's riding the pine, not rookies and 2nd year players.


Lee rides the pine. Kanter has no competition at his spot.


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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#330 » by Thugger HBC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:08 am

mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
i mean we both aren't in his head so we don't know for sure. I honestly looking for ways to see how we can fix the issue. I'm open to any ideas...

It's up to Frank to clear his head.


it is and I would absolutely put it on him. But this isn't AAU basketball this is a team...this franchise invested in him as a raw offensive player...I think Jeff didn't help him this year and Fiz sees some things differently then I do so I will wait and see what he has in store to help Frank through this tough time...

How have they invested in him? Really curious about your answer.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#331 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:11 am

mpharris36 wrote:
Cookies4Life wrote:I'm still perplexed as to why he's such a polarizing figure for this fanbase.

Why exactly wouldn't the entire fanbase be behind this kid and root for his development?

Do we forget he was viewed as a long term project coming out of the draft, now people want his head on a plate after about 120 games into his pro career that has been mired with some stupid coaches, dysfunctional rosters and the pressure of developing in such a stressful environment as NYC?

If he didn't show flashes at the very least on the offensive end than I'd be very concerned. he's already eclipsed his career high 3 times this year and this is with Fizdale's unusual rotation patterns of giving multiple DNP's to certain guys on the team.

I thought the plan was to tank and try to get Zion/RJ/Ja? Why wouldn't we want this kid to be getting 30 plus minutes a game right now. Worse case, he develops at a snails pace and helps this team lose games. Best case he starts improving and showing more consistency on the offensive end.

Some people react well to getting DNP's while others not so much. This isn't some 10 year veteran; he's one of the youngest players in the league and we should absolutely be fostering his development by playing him, not having him ride the bench and be a spectator watching terrible players like Hardaway Jr chuck up 20 plus shots.

I'm baffled by this fanbase- I thought the one good quality we all had is we root for our draft picks since we get a connection with them being somewhat "homegrown." He's on a rookie contract, already one of the best defenders on the team and I'd rather roll out there with him seeing at minimum 25 minutes nightly. But most importantly, allowing the kid to work through his mistakes rather than keeping him on such a short leash.

This isn't rocket science- we're trying to tank and we have a bunch of young guys that need minutes in order to develop. it's the perfect time to allow the young kids to get ample PT and see who's a keeper for the future. Guys like Kanter and Lee should be the one's riding the pine, not rookies and 2nd year players.



the correct answer is probably somewhere around the fanbase not being that smart...

Pot, are you calling names?


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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#332 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:11 am

Cookies4Life wrote:I'm still perplexed as to why he's such a polarizing figure for this fanbase.

Why exactly wouldn't the entire fanbase be behind this kid and root for his development?

Do we forget he was viewed as a long term project coming out of the draft, now people want his head on a plate after about 120 games into his pro career that has been mired with some stupid coaches, dysfunctional rosters and the pressure of developing in such a stressful environment as NYC?

If he didn't show flashes at the very least on the offensive end than I'd be very concerned. he's already eclipsed his career high 3 times this year and this is with Fizdale's unusual rotation patterns of giving multiple DNP's to certain guys on the team.

I thought the plan was to tank and try to get Zion/RJ/Ja? Why wouldn't we want this kid to be getting 30 plus minutes a game right now. Worse case, he develops at a snails pace and helps this team lose games. Best case he starts improving and showing more consistency on the offensive end.

Some people react well to getting DNP's while others not so much. This isn't some 10 year veteran; he's one of the youngest players in the league and we should absolutely be fostering his development by playing him, not having him ride the bench and be a spectator watching terrible players like Hardaway Jr chuck up 20 plus shots.

I'm baffled by this fanbase- I thought the one good quality we all had is we root for our draft picks since we get a connection with them being somewhat "homegrown." He's on a rookie contract, already one of the best defenders on the team and I'd rather roll out there with him seeing at minimum 25 minutes nightly. But most importantly, allowing the kid to work through his mistakes rather than keeping him on such a short leash.

This isn't rocket science- we're trying to tank and we have a bunch of young guys that need minutes in order to develop. it's the perfect time to allow the young kids to get ample PT and see who's a keeper for the future. Guys like Kanter and Lee should be the one's riding the pine, not rookies and 2nd year players.



It's probably a lot of us saw this kid busting from a mile away and we've seen the goal post shift so much that they're out of sight. First it was Frank Freak, point guard Kawhi, and now it's I hope he can be a 3&D wing player. We were promised a point guard that never even really the position outside a few tournament games with the rest of the European youth. We kept hearing how much better his league was than the NCAA and he was playing against grown men. Mind you none of his games we even on TV so there was next to no footage of him playing. There was talk about his parents escaped a genocide so he was a tough smart kid . There was barely any talk of him being some sort of project. It's obvious now that he was drafted to play the Derrick Fisher role in triangle by a President that was pretty much phoning in his duties and fired a day or two after the draft.

Pretty much everyone of my fears came true with Frank. He's a quiet, shy kid that's not a point guard and below average athlete. You can't play him on ball because his handles are suspect and he's not athletic enough to drive by people. You can't play him off ball because he has no shot and just stands in the corner not moving. What skills do you want to build on for him? He's not good at anything except for having long arms and since he's not a point guard he's elite measurements turn into just average ones. I don't even think he believes he belongs in the NBA. He's so raw he couldn't even have any fun in the Rookie challenge game because he's got no moves.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#333 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:13 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:It's up to Frank to clear his head.


it is and I would absolutely put it on him. But this isn't AAU basketball this is a team...this franchise invested in him as a raw offensive player...I think Jeff didn't help him this year and Fiz sees some things differently then I do so I will wait and see what he has in store to help Frank through this tough time...

How have they invested in him? Really curious about your answer.


by making him a lottery pick? regardless if this regime did it or not...he's still a 20 year old (10th youngest player in the NBA) that should have value in the league...so whether they believe he has a future here or they want to trade him for value it behooves them to help him get right...he's a an asset that they shouldn't just throw away that would be mismanagement at this time. Buying high and selling low...
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#334 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:15 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Cookies4Life wrote:I'm still perplexed as to why he's such a polarizing figure for this fanbase.

Why exactly wouldn't the entire fanbase be behind this kid and root for his development?

Do we forget he was viewed as a long term project coming out of the draft, now people want his head on a plate after about 120 games into his pro career that has been mired with some stupid coaches, dysfunctional rosters and the pressure of developing in such a stressful environment as NYC?

If he didn't show flashes at the very least on the offensive end than I'd be very concerned. he's already eclipsed his career high 3 times this year and this is with Fizdale's unusual rotation patterns of giving multiple DNP's to certain guys on the team.

I thought the plan was to tank and try to get Zion/RJ/Ja? Why wouldn't we want this kid to be getting 30 plus minutes a game right now. Worse case, he develops at a snails pace and helps this team lose games. Best case he starts improving and showing more consistency on the offensive end.

Some people react well to getting DNP's while others not so much. This isn't some 10 year veteran; he's one of the youngest players in the league and we should absolutely be fostering his development by playing him, not having him ride the bench and be a spectator watching terrible players like Hardaway Jr chuck up 20 plus shots.

I'm baffled by this fanbase- I thought the one good quality we all had is we root for our draft picks since we get a connection with them being somewhat "homegrown." He's on a rookie contract, already one of the best defenders on the team and I'd rather roll out there with him seeing at minimum 25 minutes nightly. But most importantly, allowing the kid to work through his mistakes rather than keeping him on such a short leash.

This isn't rocket science- we're trying to tank and we have a bunch of young guys that need minutes in order to develop. it's the perfect time to allow the young kids to get ample PT and see who's a keeper for the future. Guys like Kanter and Lee should be the one's riding the pine, not rookies and 2nd year players.



the correct answer is probably somewhere around the fanbase not being that smart...

Pot, are you calling names?


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that could be u just insinuating what you want to insinuate...pot
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#335 » by FemaleDogPlease » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:16 am

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Cookies4Life wrote:I'm still perplexed as to why he's such a polarizing figure for this fanbase.

Why exactly wouldn't the entire fanbase be behind this kid and root for his development?

Do we forget he was viewed as a long term project coming out of the draft, now people want his head on a plate after about 120 games into his pro career that has been mired with some stupid coaches, dysfunctional rosters and the pressure of developing in such a stressful environment as NYC?

If he didn't show flashes at the very least on the offensive end than I'd be very concerned. he's already eclipsed his career high 3 times this year and this is with Fizdale's unusual rotation patterns of giving multiple DNP's to certain guys on the team.

I thought the plan was to tank and try to get Zion/RJ/Ja? Why wouldn't we want this kid to be getting 30 plus minutes a game right now. Worse case, he develops at a snails pace and helps this team lose games. Best case he starts improving and showing more consistency on the offensive end.

Some people react well to getting DNP's while others not so much. This isn't some 10 year veteran; he's one of the youngest players in the league and we should absolutely be fostering his development by playing him, not having him ride the bench and be a spectator watching terrible players like Hardaway Jr chuck up 20 plus shots.

I'm baffled by this fanbase- I thought the one good quality we all had is we root for our draft picks since we get a connection with them being somewhat "homegrown." He's on a rookie contract, already one of the best defenders on the team and I'd rather roll out there with him seeing at minimum 25 minutes nightly. But most importantly, allowing the kid to work through his mistakes rather than keeping him on such a short leash.

This isn't rocket science- we're trying to tank and we have a bunch of young guys that need minutes in order to develop. it's the perfect time to allow the young kids to get ample PT and see who's a keeper for the future. Guys like Kanter and Lee should be the one's riding the pine, not rookies and 2nd year players.



It's probably a lot of us saw this kid busting from a mile away and we've seen the goal post shift so much that they're out of sight. First it was Frank Freak, point guard Kawhi, and now it's I hope he can be a 3&D wing player. We were promised a point guard that never even really the position outside a few tournament games with the rest of the European youth. We kept hearing how much better his league was than the NCAA and he was playing against grown men. Mind you none of his games we even on TV so there was next to no footage of him playing. There was talk about his parents escaped a genocide so he was a tough smart kid . There was barely any talk of him being some sort of project. It's obvious now that he was drafted to play the Derrick Fisher role in triangle by a President that was pretty much phoning in his duties and fired a day or two after the draft.

Pretty much everyone of my fears came true with Frank. He's a quiet, shy kid that's not a point guard and below average athlete. You can't play him on ball because his handles are suspect and he's not athletic enough to drive by people. You can't play him off ball because he has no shot and just stands in the corner not moving. What skills do you want to build on for him? He's not good at anything except for having long arms and since he's not a point guard he's elite measurements turn into just average ones. I don't even think he believes he belongs in the NBA. He's so raw he couldn't even have any fun in the Rookie challenge game because he's got no moves.


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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#336 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:17 am

mpharris36 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
oh really do you have any stats to back that up

frank and knox share the floor with a 103.8 OFF rating
mudiay and knox share the floor with a 104.2 OFF rating

man oh man that shooting costing us .4 OFF rating is KILLING THIS TEAM! :eyeroll:

lets try burke...

102.8....hmmm thats worse than Frank.... hmmmmmmmmmm really effecting knox's game huh....

and thats for anyone who only cares about knox's offensive developement...having a smart defensive guard with him doesn't hurt his development easily. I don't want him to get into bad habits playing alongside turnstiles defensively.


You only use stats when it benefits you. How about Frank being the worst offensive guard in the NBA and 88th in DRPM. Truth is that Frank isn’t worth it man. He isn’t what you wanted him to be Fiz or no Fiz.



He's bad...I get that. I don't know how else to explain it to you...they are all bad! Mudiay makes himself better...he doesn't not help knox or the team overall by our disastrous (or glorious) december vs a relatively easy schedule and him playing 32 minutes a night....so basically they are all bad...regardless of what stats anyone says. So again no one is helping or hurting anyone but you are the worried about frank hurting Knox...and im telling you there isn't a player on this roster that will help knox. So im just debunking the argument no more no less.

Your post is making out like im sugar coating franks performance on offense...he hasn't been good but in terms of effecting other players that argument is bogus and I proved that regardless of his atrocious offensive ratings. Which I have acknowledge...


He hasn’t been good is sugarcoating. He’s the WORST offensive guard in the league. So why should the WORST guard get a lot of minutes? Because he’s under contract next year? You can also argue that he doesn’t need the minutes now and he can be brought along next year since he’ll still be under contract and you have more time to build him slowly and properly.



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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#337 » by Thugger HBC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:18 am

mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
it is and I would absolutely put it on him. But this isn't AAU basketball this is a team...this franchise invested in him as a raw offensive player...I think Jeff didn't help him this year and Fiz sees some things differently then I do so I will wait and see what he has in store to help Frank through this tough time...

How have they invested in him? Really curious about your answer.


by making him a lottery pick? regardless if this regime did it or not...he's still a 20 year old (10th youngest player in the NBA) that should have value in the league...so whether they believe he has a future here or they want to trade him for value it behooves them to help him get right...he's a an asset that they shouldn't just throw away that would be mismanagement at this time. Buying high and selling low...

Fam, you're all over the place, you're thinking about this like Frank thinks about his offense. it's not like the team has been dangling him around the league trying to trade him. Right now he's just not playing. He knows why, we all do. But it's really up to him to get back on the NBA court. In his case, I would endorse the g-league if he asked to go, but I dont see that happening.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#338 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:25 am

mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:He's gotten his career highs...this year. He has regressed, but it's clearly mental. G-League aint helping with that, sorry it wont.


i mean we both aren't in his head so we don't know for sure. I honestly looking for ways to see how we can fix the issue. I'm open to any ideas...


Let him sit and develop slowly.


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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#339 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:26 am

mpharris36 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:

the correct answer is probably somewhere around the fanbase not being that smart...

Pot, are you calling names?


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that could be u just insinuating what you want to insinuate...pot


You called the whole fan base not that smart. You realize that includes you, yes?


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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#340 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:31 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:Pot, are you calling names?


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that could be u just insinuating what you want to insinuate...pot


You called the whole fan base not that smart. You realize that includes you, yes?


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i said somewhere around the fan base not being that smart...

that doesn't mean that everyone that is a knicks fan is dumb

i didn't know I had to break that down for you....
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