PG Knicks @ Nuggets - 4 L's in a Row

[robillionaire]

And the biggest reason for that is because this organization has failed to show that they have the wits to be able to build and sustain a top caliber team. The closest the Knicks managed to having a competent front office decision maker was Dave Checketts who left that role in 1998. And even Checketts wasn't what I would call a mastermind of team building when you look at the top teams in the NBA during that time frame and since. That's the biggest problem with this organization bar none. Not the players, not the coaches (and we've obviously had some absolute doozies in both those areas as well). For a team that has all the possible attractiveness that any player can ask for (bright lights, deep pockets, night life, etc.) it all boils down to their front office not being viewed as a competent one and often viewed as a comedy act.

We are going to put this to the test soon. People like RJ now. We will see if it stays that way when he’s on a max extension making 30M a season (because people care so much about dolan’s money) and when he can’t carry a talent devoid roster year over year. And people boo the team and he takes it personally. KP saw all this coming too because he saw what was happening with Melo and he demanded a trade. RJ sees what’s happening with Randle and what his future is if he’s not MJ. And if we have the next shiny new toy on a rookie deal god help him

GTFOH being so hypocritical....You already bash RJ more then anyone

Yeah that’s crap. Maybe I posted his stat line once or twice. I hope he can handle a lot more than that

[Reign23]

to the game:

burks, randle and fournier with that last second trade value push. lets go !
RJ finished incredibly bad at the rim, but I don't think I've ever seen someone get bumped this much and don't get a single call. he got ZERO free throws. He should have gotten at least 8. I would have been thrown out of the game If I was him.

And another thing: last season I thought I would never ever in my lifetime see a worse PG play than Payton. but come Kemba&IQ with the "hold my beer"

You do realize we’re not trading Randle right

unfortunately, yes.

[DowNY]

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[j4remi]

I think the real error here is in thinking that Knicks fans wouldn't give Lebron the same ****...

If he played like Randle of course he would

Honestly, it wouldn't even take playing like Randle. This is NYC...Rangers fans have boo'ed Messier, Gretzky, Jagr, Lundkvist, etc. Yankees fans booed Mariano and Jeter. Mets fans got the Randle treatment from the stars they booed THIS PAST YEAR.

Either win games or expect boos until you do. That's just what it is. The Lebron, Jordan thing tracks because those dudes win everywhere they're at. But they'd get booed too if they weren't winning games. Win in NYC or expect some heat from fans that get charged huge amounts regardless of the team's success or lack thereof.

[NowWHYcee7]

By golly, all we need to do is cheer for the team and we will be great. Let's all smile, hold hands and sing kumbaya at the game. There will be puppy dogs, rainbows and championships if we as fans can just get it together

You’re being tongue in cheek but the fans can be a big reason why players decide to stay and/or come here.

Fans like to take credit for being electric and inspiring athletes when they play well and feed off that energy, but those same fans will never take the credit when it works the other way. Then all of a sudden we will get into narratives about money, “the Mecca,” and how so and so is just not “built” to be here. Yeah, like a woman who may not be built to stay with a guy who is beating her ass every night. Sure.

Nobody is saying we need to coddle these players, but they are human beings like us. We can criticize players without going off the rails. When we go from chanting MVP for a guy one season then try to run him out of town the next, something is wrong.

Randle brought some of it on himself and made it worse flipping the fans off. If you play with 0 effort you are going to get booed. I dont think that's outrageous. Its a part of the game and Knicks fans arent the only team with crazy fans that boo. Maybe we are tougher, but there are boos heard all around sports. There's a line that shouldnt be crossed and not condoning all behavior. But its all in the game. Players are paid to play in front of an audience and when you play bad you will get negative reactions and when you play well you will get positive reactions. Last year the Knicks were cheered all season when they played well. This year its a different story cause they are playing poorly and there are times when there is 0 effort.

This all really has 0 to do with the fans. Management has been horrible and made some awful decisions. Thats why they suck. So yeah, management deserve most of the blame. But they are hiding in the shadows. The players hear it cause they are on a stage.

Flipping someone off is giving them the middle finger. That’s not what he did. He gave them a thumbs down basically telling the fans he doesn’t want any fake love. Dude went through a rough stretch and he’s playing better as of late. We suck because we have no PG. It’s not all on Randle. Narratives matter.

[moocow007]

Knicks fans can be brutal. And some of the hate is overboard and unnecessary

But none of that changes that the extension for Randle was a bad idea and Knicks need to move on. That is mostly on managment and not all Randles fault (although his behavior and effort for most of the season is also unacceptable).

Oh I was scared to death that the Knicks would give Randle a max contract. That extension was a huge sigh of relief more so because it wasn't the max. But even then I was tentative about it. That's still a lot of money. And I did not have any confidence that this front office would be able to put a team together around Randle to cover all his warts and the fact that he's not good enough to carry a team all by himself. That was my fear and why I kept pushing for the Knicks to add top tier talent over more role players (including bringing back their own guys). You've seen me do this. It's because I knew well and good that a team where Randle would continue to have to do what he was asked to do last season was doomed to fail. And here we are...

My biggest issue with Randle is his game is a bad fit next to RJ. It kinda worked last year but got really exposed in the playoffs. Randle's shooting seemed like a big difference and if he can't shoot like he did last year theres little chance it works out. We should be moving in a different direction. We are gonna have to pay RJ soon, and really dont see how we build a contending team with Randle and RJ making big money like that.

If you put Randle in the right role, on the right team he could do well. Its just a very specific team build, or maybe as a 6th man. Just cant see him working out really well here long term. Need to move on as a buisness decision

Oh I don't disagree. I think moving Randle is a very good idea especially at this point. But you don't want to panic and move him for any old thing (like Phil Jackson used to do when he didn't like someone). The Knicks have very little assets and they need to be smart about and maximize every move they make, even when it comes to Randle. Just because Randle is having a relatively brutal season doesn't mean that you give him up for pennies on the dollar just to get rid of him (Randle is not worthless no matter how much angry Knick fans seem to feel he is). There are players that the Knicks could probably trade Randle for that are even worse for this team moving forward. That's why you need a top tier front office. One that not only can maximize a Randle trade but that also then would know what the follow-up move is and the move after that. This FO honestly is not giving me the warm and fuzzy. It's the same type of feeling that I had when the Knicks hired Phil Jackson (and I'm an absolute HUGE fan of Phil Jackson...as a head coach). I'm a firm believer that you hire people based on competence in the job that you are hiring them for and not because they're a big name or they have shown plenty of success in a different line of business. Leon Rose is a big name like Phil Jackson and like Phil Jackson had absolutely no experience whatsoever in the job that the Knicks hired him for. You can have all the "advisors" you want that may have some experience in other teams but at the end of the day, the guy at the top is the one that matters. And we right now have a guy that has never ever even been part of any front office much less a successful front office, forget about being able to lead one. Leon Rose is another WWW in Dolan's ear special more and more it seems.

[robillionaire]

I think the real error here is in thinking that Knicks fans wouldn't give Lebron the same ****...

If he played like Randle of course he would

Honestly, it wouldn't even take playing like Randle. This is NYC...Rangers fans have boo'ed Messier, Gretzky, Jagr, Lundkvist, etc. Yankees fans booed Mariano and Jeter. Mets fans got the Randle treatment from the stars they booed THIS PAST YEAR.

Either win games or expect boos until you do. That's just what it is. The Lebron, Jordan thing tracks because those dudes win everywhere they're at. But they'd get booed too if they weren't winning games. Win in NYC or expect some heat from fans that get charged huge amounts regardless of the team's success or lack thereof.

I don’t think the newer generation of players in a player empowerment era are going to deal with it like players in the 90s or before did. Maybe MJ would have just dealt with it and won anyway. But now they can just go somewhere else. They can just do what Ben Simmons is doing. Nobody has to subject themselves to that treatment now if they have other options. Sure that’s “weak” behavior or whatever but maybe that’s just the times

[Deeeez Knicks]

You’re being tongue in cheek but the fans can be a big reason why players decide to stay and/or come here.

Fans like to take credit for being electric and inspiring athletes when they play well and feed off that energy, but those same fans will never take the credit when it works the other way. Then all of a sudden we will get into narratives about money, “the Mecca,” and how so and so is just not “built” to be here. Yeah, like a woman who may not be built to stay with a guy who is beating her ass every night. Sure.

Nobody is saying we need to coddle these players, but they are human beings like us. We can criticize players without going off the rails. When we go from chanting MVP for a guy one season then try to run him out of town the next, something is wrong.

Randle brought some of it on himself and made it worse flipping the fans off. If you play with 0 effort you are going to get booed. I dont think that's outrageous. Its a part of the game and Knicks fans arent the only team with crazy fans that boo. Maybe we are tougher, but there are boos heard all around sports. There's a line that shouldnt be crossed and not condoning all behavior. But its all in the game. Players are paid to play in front of an audience and when you play bad you will get negative reactions and when you play well you will get positive reactions. Last year the Knicks were cheered all season when they played well. This year its a different story cause they are playing poorly and there are times when there is 0 effort.

This all really has 0 to do with the fans. Management has been horrible and made some awful decisions. Thats why they suck. So yeah, management deserve most of the blame. But they are hiding in the shadows. The players hear it cause they are on a stage.

Flipping someone off is giving them the middle finger. That’s not what he did. He gave them a thumbs down basically telling the fans he doesn’t want any fake love. Dude went through a rough stretch and he’s playing better as of late. We suck because we have no PG. It’s not all on Randle. Narratives matter.

Its not all on Randle, but the team was also playing especially awful that game. Actually came back after the boo's so maybe it did motivate them.

i blame management the most. If the Knicks did not boo this season would anything really change? No, not really. We would still be around the same.

The booing is not a cause for us being bad. Its a reaction for us being bad.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Oh I was scared to death that the Knicks would give Randle a max contract. That extension was a huge sigh of relief more so because it wasn't the max. But even then I was tentative about it. That's still a lot of money. And I did not have any confidence that this front office would be able to put a team together around Randle to cover all his warts and the fact that he's not good enough to carry a team all by himself. That was my fear and why I kept pushing for the Knicks to add top tier talent over more role players (including bringing back their own guys). You've seen me do this. It's because I knew well and good that a team where Randle would continue to have to do what he was asked to do last season was doomed to fail. And here we are...

My biggest issue with Randle is his game is a bad fit next to RJ. It kinda worked last year but got really exposed in the playoffs. Randle's shooting seemed like a big difference and if he can't shoot like he did last year theres little chance it works out. We should be moving in a different direction. We are gonna have to pay RJ soon, and really dont see how we build a contending team with Randle and RJ making big money like that.

If you put Randle in the right role, on the right team he could do well. Its just a very specific team build, or maybe as a 6th man. Just cant see him working out really well here long term. Need to move on as a buisness decision

Oh I don't disagree. I think moving Randle is a very good idea especially at this point. But you don't want to panic and move him for any old thing (like Phil Jackson used to do when he didn't like someone). The Knicks have very little assets and they need to be smart about and maximize every move they make, even when it comes to Randle. Just because Randle is having a relatively brutal season doesn't mean that you give him up for pennies on the dollar just to get rid of him (Randle is not worthless no matter how much angry Knick fans seem to feel he is). There are players that the Knicks could probably trade Randle for that are even worse for this team moving forward. That's why you need a top tier front office. One that not only can maximize a Randle trade but that also then would know what the follow-up move is and the move after that. This FO honestly is not giving me the warm and fuzzy. It's the same type of feeling that I had when the Knicks hired Phil Jackson (and I'm an absolute HUGE fan of Phil Jackson...as a head coach). I'm a firm believer that you hire people based on competence in the job that you are hiring them for and not because they're a big name or they have shown plenty of success in a different line of business. Leon Rose is a big name like Phil Jackson and like Phil Jackson had absolutely no experience whatsoever in the job that the Knicks hired him for. You can have all the "advisors" you want that may have some experience in other teams but at the end of the day, the guy at the top is the one that matters. And we right now have a guy that has never ever even been part of a successful front office much less being able to lead one. Leon Rose is another WWW in Dolan's ear special more and more it seems.

It depends on the deal. I would just move him for expirings and whatever we can get at this point. Think there's more value in moving on. Dont really see his value being that high in awhile with the big contract on the books. Its more important for the Knicks to move on and put better fitting pieces together. Clearing off the cap will help do that.

Of course the Knicks have to make the right decisions, which they will probably fail to do anyway

[HerSports85]

Please don’t group Melo and Ewing with Randle. That’s embarrassing.

I won’t go down the list of every single thing.

However, neither Melo nor Ewing half ass’d it for a season, after getting paid.

Neither put the young guys in a **** up situation because they didn’t want to talk after losses.

Neither had the body language as Randle.

Neither told the fans to STFU.

Neither blatantly blames his young guns for all his missed defensive assignments..

and that’s just the tip of iceberg.

Most are aware Randle is not really an all team nba player… **** he’s not a first option. AND THATS FINE!!! It’s all the other things.

So can we not compare him with Melo and Ewing, who’s both loved every time they step in the garden.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Meanwhile Lebron went to LA

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And back to Cleveland

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But yea, only Knicks fans are bad.

[HerSports85]

Meanwhile Lebron went to LA

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Braneezys

And back to Cleveland

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Coreyepps


But yea, only Knicks fans are bad.

Knick fans though …

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[HarthorneWingo]

On a positive note, there was this:

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[Tron Carter]

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when the kids play and suck ya'll will still complain. Ya'll already ready to trade IQ for a bag of chips because he's struggling to play PG, a position he hasn't played since HS. If RJ misses a couple free throws he's a bust. When Obi bricks a 3 he's a bust. Same old song and dance.

This board is so fake sometimes I swear

[HEZI]

I think the real error here is in thinking that Knicks fans wouldn't give Lebron the same ****...

If he played like Randle of course he would

Honestly, it wouldn't even take playing like Randle. This is NYC...Rangers fans have boo'ed Messier, Gretzky, Jagr, Lundkvist, etc. Yankees fans booed Mariano and Jeter. Mets fans got the Randle treatment from the stars they booed THIS PAST YEAR.

Either win games or expect boos until you do. That's just what it is. The Lebron, Jordan thing tracks because those dudes win everywhere they're at. But they'd get booed too if they weren't winning games. Win in NYC or expect some heat from fans that get charged huge amounts regardless of the team's success or lack thereof.

That is let of it but also the fans know when somebody is playing like a selfish ball hog and is doing things that contribute to losing. They will go at Randle because he has the highest usage and the ball is in his hands the most plus he’s the highest paid and the fans see him playing like an idiot game after game after game of course they boo.

And no we don’t need Lebron James to build consistency as a playoff team, it doesn’t take that much to do it, but we have a terrible playoff track record so yeah fans are upset. We don’t mind losing if we are doing it through a rebuild and youth but don’t try to sell us on Julius Randle either

[Capn'O]

Star players don't want to come to this franchise because it sucks and it sucks mostly because the owner sucks. God bless and good night.

[j4remi]

If he played like Randle of course he would

Honestly, it wouldn't even take playing like Randle. This is NYC...Rangers fans have boo'ed Messier, Gretzky, Jagr, Lundkvist, etc. Yankees fans booed Mariano and Jeter. Mets fans got the Randle treatment from the stars they booed THIS PAST YEAR.

Either win games or expect boos until you do. That's just what it is. The Lebron, Jordan thing tracks because those dudes win everywhere they're at. But they'd get booed too if they weren't winning games. Win in NYC or expect some heat from fans that get charged huge amounts regardless of the team's success or lack thereof.

I don’t think the newer generation of players in a player empowerment era are going to deal with it like players in the 90s or before did. Maybe MJ would have just dealt with it and won anyway. But now they can just go somewhere else. They can just do what Ben Simmons is doing. Nobody has to subject themselves to that treatment now if they have other options. Sure that’s “weak” behavior or whatever but maybe that’s just the times

Simmons is mad that his organization threw him under the bus. Kyrie Irving is doing the same thing and he wasn't even getting boo'ed. I don't think the comparison tracks. Bradley Beal caught heat from Wizards fans; Mccollum and Dame caught heat this year; the pressure on players is almost always commensurate with either their paycheck or their draft position. What makes NYC unique is market and fanbase size. Players feel the heat faster and the media magnifies it for ratings.

But as long as players are on televised sports, they're gonna have to subject themselves to boos. The player empowerment era is about players vs organizations; not fans. If the Knicks could be trusted to piece together a consistent winner, then players would come flocking. "Toxic fans" only boo when the team is bad.

[Capn'O]

If the Knicks could be trusted to piece together a consistent winner, then players would come flocking. "Toxic fans" only boo when the team is bad.

AND not playing hard. The crowd has put up with bad teams doing their darndest.

[Oscirus]

Star players don't want to come to this franchise because it sucks and it sucks mostly because the owner sucks. God bless and good night.

Only reason why any star player worth his salt would mention this franchise is to get attention for his oncoming trade demands/ free agency. At some points the owners in this league need to pull dolan behind closed doors and tell him to get his **** together

[j4remi]

That is let of it but also the fans know when somebody is playing like a selfish ball hog and is doing things that contribute to losing. They will go at Randle because he has the highest usage and the ball is in his hands the most plus he’s the highest paid and the fans see him playing like an idiot game after game after game of course they boo.

And no we don’t need Lebron James to build consistency as a playoff team, it doesn’t take that much to do it, but we have a terrible playoff track record so yeah fans are upset. We don’t mind losing if we are doing it through a rebuild and youth but don’t try to sell us on Julius Randle either

I'm glad you mention that we wouldn't mind losing if it was through a rebuild or youth. A sense of direction would go a long way to help the fans cool off. This team had a certain direction, switched courses because of surprise successes, and now it seems to be having a hard time going back to its original assessments (partially because of the contracts they obligated themselves to).

As much as NYC is uniquely a pressure-cooker because of the market size and attention; the fans do pay attention and value little things that other fanbases don't hype as much. You won't find bench players that average 15 mins or less a night getting their names chanted at away arenas for most franchises like Obi has gotten in a few spots. Fans still show love to Theo Pinson for christ's sake. When players prove they're trying, the fanbase is pretty damned forgiving.

Hell, KP had way more love and excuses than hate right up until he demanded a trade.