PG: Knicks unclutch fall to Magic, Randle and Divo miss crucial freethrows

[Capn'O]

it's hard to say right now if the knicks are any better after this trade. they need a follow up one or they may be worse or the same for now.

The way they played after the trade was amazing. Makes me believe they are more than capable of playing better. Missing Brunson matters, but ORL was missing Wagner. I think the drop-off is very much due to Thibs burning out key players and that is a coaching issue.

Also, we started playing faster and having a lot more off ball movement after the trade. That caught a lot of teams off guard but now that's how our report reads and they're prepped for it.

[evevale]

i think if the injury report comes out tomorrow and randle misses significant time w/ an ankle injury then some of us really should look inwards - if we're daggers out on a guy trying to gut out an injury because he knows his team is completely lost offensively without him on the court then perhaps the problem isn't him (the biggest problem at least ...)

i'm no randle lover but i'm not going to overlook the fact that thibs rides him like a siberian sled dog and that his minutes/usage is not and never will be sustainable - we're seeing it real time w/ him & brunson as i type this miserable post

i think this team has far larger problems than randle having a couple offgames but i understand the frustration - i've been there ... i lived that life

[Jalen Bluntson]

i think if the injury report comes out tomorrow and randle misses significant time w/ an ankle injury then some of us really should look inwards - if we're daggers out on a guy trying to gut out an injury because he knows his team is completely lost offensively without him on the court then perhaps the problem isn't him (the biggest problem at least ...)

i'm no randle lover but i'm not going to overlook the fact that thibs rides him like a siberian sled dog and that his minutes/usage is not and never will be sustainable - we're seeing it real time w/ him & brunson as i type this miserable post

i think this team has far larger problems than randle having a couple offgames but i understand the frustration - i've been there ... i lived that life

It's on the coach and the FO. Randle gets blame for what he does wrong but, the bigger problem is the FO who kept him and have no depth behind him and, the moron coach who doesn't hold him accountable when he sucks. He runs his players into the ground as well but, who else can he put at the 4 or 5 or even at PG when our big three are injured or playing like ass or in foul trouble? More trades need to happen.

[Clyde_Style]

it's hard to say right now if the knicks are any better after this trade. they need a follow up one or they may be worse or the same for now.

The way they played after the trade was amazing. Makes me believe they are more than capable of playing better. Missing Brunson matters, but ORL was missing Wagner. I think the drop-off is very much due to Thibs burning out key players and that is a coaching issue.

Also, we started playing faster and having a lot more off ball movement after the trade. That caught a lot of teams off guard but now that's how our report reads and they're prepped for it.

Sure, but then again, the whole point of ball movement and pace is you can't fully game plan for it if you keep applying the pressure. Great teams make the extra pass and that usually involves guys moving off the ball well too. Keep doing that and you can keep winning. That plus defense is certainly how less talented teams overcome better rosters. We took our foot off the gas.

[Najeem27]

Poor baby his ankles hurt so he rather make us play 4v5 instead of calling to sit out. Maybe he's not getting enough sleep again

[3toheadmelo]

i think if the injury report comes out tomorrow and randle misses significant time w/ an ankle injury then some of us really should look inwards - if we're daggers out on a guy trying to gut out an injury because he knows his team is completely lost offensively without him on the court then perhaps the problem isn't him (the biggest problem at least ...)

i'm no randle lover but i'm not going to overlook the fact that thibs rides him like a siberian sled dog and that his minutes/usage is not and never will be sustainable - we're seeing it real time w/ him & brunson as i type this miserable post

i think this team has far larger problems than randle having a couple offgames but i understand the frustration - i've been there ... i lived that life

but i'm not going to overlook the fact that thibs rides him like a siberian sled dog and that his minutes/usage is not and never will be sustainable - we're seeing it real time w/ him & brunson as i type this miserable post

i was saying this a couple games ago. we have to hope there is a follow up move soon. randle's usage since the trade is like the 3rd highest in the league or something wild like that.

[oldshoolballer]

If anyone had any doubts Brunson is the engine that runs this team todays game completely unveiled that.

[Jalen Bluntson]

If anyone had any doubts Brunson is the engine that runs this team todays game completely unveiled that.

If the FO doesn't make a trade soon to add some depth we can depend on to get wins, we will see a lot more of this.

[knicksNOTslick]

i think if the injury report comes out tomorrow and randle misses significant time w/ an ankle injury then some of us really should look inwards - if we're daggers out on a guy trying to gut out an injury because he knows his team is completely lost offensively without him on the court then perhaps the problem isn't him (the biggest problem at least ...)

i'm no randle lover but i'm not going to overlook the fact that thibs rides him like a siberian sled dog and that his minutes/usage is not and never will be sustainable - we're seeing it real time w/ him & brunson as i type this miserable post

i think this team has far larger problems than randle having a couple offgames but i understand the frustration - i've been there ... i lived that life

but i'm not going to overlook the fact that thibs rides him like a siberian sled dog and that his minutes/usage is not and never will be sustainable - we're seeing it real time w/ him & brunson as i type this miserable post

i was saying this a couple games ago. we have to hope there is a follow up move soon. randle's usage since the trade is like the 3rd highest in the league or something wild like that.

The front office has to make a move very soon in order to protect and preserve Brunson and Randle for the playoffs because Thibs isn't going to. He's gonna keep playing them heavy minutes because he doesn't trust the bench, and mr +/- OG Anunoby is gonna start logging plenty of minutes too if we keep losing leads when he sits. There's a significant drop off right now when the bench comes in because the bench is full of shaky guys (Grimes, Hart, Precious, sometimes OG when he's forced to create) who lose their aggressiveness when their shots aren't falling. Then they start passing up good shots hoping somebody bails them out. Thibs doesn't have the patience to hope they'll gel with time so something has to happen.

[knicks94]

A little more than a week ago we were talking about the Knicks being an elite team in the East, now we are back to being the squad who is incapable of getting passed teams above .500.

The most exasperating thing about this loss is that the Magic will most likely be a below than .500 team in a matter of weeks.

[Adelheid]

i think if the injury report comes out tomorrow and randle misses significant time w/ an ankle injury then some of us really should look inwards - if we're daggers out on a guy trying to gut out an injury because he knows his team is completely lost offensively without him on the court then perhaps the problem isn't him (the biggest problem at least ...)

i'm no randle lover but i'm not going to overlook the fact that thibs rides him like a siberian sled dog and that his minutes/usage is not and never will be sustainable - we're seeing it real time w/ him & brunson as i type this miserable post

i think this team has far larger problems than randle having a couple offgames but i understand the frustration - i've been there ... i lived that life

It's on the coach and the FO. Randle gets blame for what he does wrong but, the bigger problem is the FO who kept him and have no depth behind him and, the moron coach who doesn't hold him accountable when he sucks. He runs his players into the ground as well but, who else can he put at the 4 or 5 or even at PG when our big three are injured or playing like ass or in foul trouble? More trades need to happen.

is there really a hc out there that reprimands the team's key player when he shats on the floor? Sure, thibs is guilty of those things but so is any coach out there. Thibs is what he is and a tiger never changes its stripes. Its all up to the FO to finish off what they have started or they may stand to lose OG in the offseason. Just hope thibs never gets extended

[gavran]

You can't have your former 13th guy be your leading scorer, even if I'm happy for McBride.

[TheDavinciCHODE]

Definitely did not like Randal's effort/decision making, but I think he was actually injured. Can't hold it against him.

Also, for people saying he shouldn't have been out there, I think Thibs thinks "if Randal can play even 70% of his full self, he's still our best creator, and it's better to have him out there than not".

I'm not the biggest Randal fan, but there's literally no one else on this roster that can create with Brunson out. If Randal sat, that would be basically throwing in the towel.

[Jalen Bluntson]

i think if the injury report comes out tomorrow and randle misses significant time w/ an ankle injury then some of us really should look inwards - if we're daggers out on a guy trying to gut out an injury because he knows his team is completely lost offensively without him on the court then perhaps the problem isn't him (the biggest problem at least ...)

i'm no randle lover but i'm not going to overlook the fact that thibs rides him like a siberian sled dog and that his minutes/usage is not and never will be sustainable - we're seeing it real time w/ him & brunson as i type this miserable post

i think this team has far larger problems than randle having a couple offgames but i understand the frustration - i've been there ... i lived that life

It's on the coach and the FO. Randle gets blame for what he does wrong but, the bigger problem is the FO who kept him and have no depth behind him and, the moron coach who doesn't hold him accountable when he sucks. He runs his players into the ground as well but, who else can he put at the 4 or 5 or even at PG when our big three are injured or playing like ass or in foul trouble? More trades need to happen.

is there really a hc out there that reprimands the team's key player when he shats on the floor? Sure, thibs is guilty of those things but so is any coach out there. Thibs is what he is and a tiger never changes its stripes. Its all up to the FO to finish off what they have started or they may stand to lose OG in the offseason. Just hope thibs never gets extended

We had ex players call him out on it. It's over the top with him. They mention Julius specifically. The video was on here somewhere.

[G_K_F]

i think if the injury report comes out tomorrow and randle misses significant time w/ an ankle injury then some of us really should look inwards - if we're daggers out on a guy trying to gut out an injury because he knows his team is completely lost offensively without him on the court then perhaps the problem isn't him (the biggest problem at least ...)

i'm no randle lover but i'm not going to overlook the fact that thibs rides him like a siberian sled dog and that his minutes/usage is not and never will be sustainable - we're seeing it real time w/ him & brunson as i type this miserable post

i think this team has far larger problems than randle having a couple offgames but i understand the frustration - i've been there ... i lived that life

It also simply boils down to Randle not being a second option on a title team. He’s 29 years old. He’s never been one and never will be. This is the player he is. I guess we should blame the front office for putting the burden on him. Still doesn’t excuse the lackadaisical play at times but we cannot rely on this guy to lead us to the promised land. It’s just not happening.

If they want to get another great player and keep Randle that’s fine with me, as long as that player is a legit 2nd scoring option. Then Randle can slot into his 3rd option role where he can actually be the most impactful.

[Luv those Knicks]

As frustrating as Randle is sometimes, I think we're better with him than without him. I also refuse to worry too much about a loss when we're missing our best player.

There's going to be a lot of talk about trades the next 3 weeks or so, and I just hope they don't overpay. I hate overpaying for a mid-season trade. That just rubs me the wrong way. The exception, ofcourse, is a championship, in which case a mid-season overpay is fine, but I'm skeptical that this is a championship team.

They had a good run last year, beaten and out physicalled by the ref-assisted heat and that was a tough loss, but still, they had a good playoff run and this year they're better. I think they should just keep building. THeir only player in danger of aging past his prime is Randle and I think Randel's good for a few more years.

[thebuzzardman]

I think he could be if coming to a contender where he was the third best offensive player revitalized him the way coming to NY sparked OG & Hart...but my favorite realistic option is the Atlanta Bogdanovic. Watching them since the new year, he's a pretty decent defender who plays passing lanes well and really fights around screens, and on offense he has plenty of skill to be our 3rd option. Plus he's signed to a nice contract.

He's 31, so they may want to move on from him & retool around Trae, JJ, OO, and whatever they get for Murray, but Bogdan doesn't have too many miles or injuries behind him, and his game should age very nicely. His game feels like it would fit in seamlessly with any of the nova boys, or running 2-man actions with Julius when Jalen rests.

Team basically isn't that good. Personally, I'm done speculating about trades that make them a 2nd round exit instead of a play in team.

Oh come on Buzz. With a healthy Brundle this team is a 2nd round exit already. We're talking about pushing that to a 3rd round exit!

...and if anyone can appreciate the importance of a healthy Brundle, I would hope it would be you good buddy.

That's kind of the point. They ARE a good team with Brunson. The Knicks made a consolidation trade, trading good depth for a very needed 3&D wing, one particularly suited for the playoffs. In the process, they got rid of their depth and exposed the roster as not all that deep ( was always going to be a byproduct of the trade), but scarily, just not that good and kind of I'll fitting and poorly constructed.

And Thibs is no Spolestra, so he can't get the most out of "ok" players. I'll watch Brunson games. The team is ass otherwise. Knicks make a big trade still wind up two or three moves away from being anything. Good times.

[thebuzzardman]

it's hard to say right now if the knicks are any better after this trade. they need a follow up one or they may be worse or the same for now.

The way they played after the trade was amazing. Makes me believe they are more than capable of playing better. Missing Brunson matters, but ORL was missing Wagner. I think the drop-off is very much due to Thibs burning out key players and that is a coaching issue.

Also, we started playing faster and having a lot more off ball movement after the trade. That caught a lot of teams off guard but now that's how our report reads and they're prepped for it.

Once Thibs coached OG out of his moving without the ball and sharing tendencies, they have reverted to the usual stagnant offense. Thibs is a master.

[thebuzzardman]

i think if the injury report comes out tomorrow and randle misses significant time w/ an ankle injury then some of us really should look inwards - if we're daggers out on a guy trying to gut out an injury because he knows his team is completely lost offensively without him on the court then perhaps the problem isn't him (the biggest problem at least ...)

i'm no randle lover but i'm not going to overlook the fact that thibs rides him like a siberian sled dog and that his minutes/usage is not and never will be sustainable - we're seeing it real time w/ him & brunson as i type this miserable post

i think this team has far larger problems than randle having a couple offgames but i understand the frustration - i've been there ... i lived that life

OG is fully capable of playing the 4 and Thibs has a masturbatory love affair with the mediocre Josh Hart, so there is a guy who could cover OGs minutes reduction at the 3. Coaching issue. And Randle should be wise enough to tell Thibs to **** off and play him 33 mpg instead of 38 but Randle loves his stats.

[duetta]

The bottom line for me is that we gave up a ton of offense in the Toronto trade and that is showing up now.

OG is an elite defender but also a very limited offensive player. Great three-point shooter from the corners but has more of what Peter Vecsey would have called a post-op game (instead of post-up) when near the hoop. He looks useless completely around the offensive basket.

Deuce is demonstrating significant skill but not the ability to penetrate and initiate the offense.

Between the Hart and DDV acquisitions, management broke the confidence of Grimes. He's not the same player he was last season. That's the bottom line. They broke his confidence.

We're so polarized about Randle on this board, that it's hard to know what the truth is about yesterday's clunker. We all saw him hurt his ankle and then go back to the locker room in the first half. I would be surprised if he wasn't playing in discomfort in the 2nd half. But management did this by trading Toppin and not replacing him with a legit PF.

I keep hearing the shills on MSG celebrating Thibs's 500 wins - but I think it's time for management to recognize that his stubbornness is a HUGE part of our problem. He's a coach who elevates your floor as a team. but also cements in a very hard ceiling.

Management should have been willing to pay IQ. They are not the same team without him. He's a lot more advanced at getting into the lane and making something out of a possession than Duece is right now - which is to be expected. Now management is tasked with replacing IQ and doing whatever it can to salvage the trade value of Grimes.

Our front office isn't completely incompetent, as in the past, but it comes up with clunkers (Reddish, Toppin trade, etc.) every year.