PG: Cavs vs. Knicks: Only 8FGA for KAT?

[Guano]

Another one, in addition to the gifs, look where Hart is and look where Mobley is

Read on Twitter

The Celtics had Horford on Hart, the Cavs put Mobley on him, you can hide your big on him if they're mobile. The Celtics will absolutely put Kristaps on him if he's reluctant to shoot and not respected.


The entire 4th quarter till he left the game they were not guarding him.

Again, I love Josh Hart, but these clips are pretty damning.

The NBA's evolving fast, and while you can get away with some weaknesses against the more traditional coaches, the more forward-thinking ones will punish you mercilessly for them.

I still believe Hart brings winning intangibles to the table, but we may reach the point where Hart can exclusively play bench minutes or as the screener against elite competition.

It's starting to feel like a Marcus Smart situation. I hope it doesn't prove to be true, but I'm open to that being a possibility.

Teams are betting on him missing threes or just not taking them, unfortunately he's shooting 23% on them and he's taking the second most on the team because our volume is pitiful

Yes, Josh is taking twice as many threes per game as KAT.

This hurts especially considering he is also passing up a lot of clean looks too.

[prophet_of_rage]

I never understood thinking anyone here doesn't actually care about the knicks. We all want em to win. We just have different ideas how to get there. And some of us are a lil rough at expressing that. But just cause a fan doesn't fck with this current team doesn't make them not a fan.

We don't have the same situation that we did years ago when we had posters that were actually wolves in sheeps clothing masquerading as fans. What we've had recently is a couple posters beefing and trolling each other with one poster consistently at the center of it. Myself and other mods have recently gotten PMs from posters completely outside of this dynamic who are feeling less and less compelled to be part of the community because the forum is so overwhelmed with this commotion that any serious discussion of the team or games gets drowned out. And it's not one or two posters saying this. It's a lot. That's a problem and it's a cumulative one. Not one that springs from specific incidents but over time the board is degraded.

This place is supposed to be fun. It should be a place to let off steam and spar a bit. But it needs to be fun for a variety of users and our more gentle ways of expressing this recently hadn't taken.


Look at the discussion that's transpired this morning. It's far from homer talk but what it isn't is full of instigation and veiled attacks at other posters and the resultant retaliations dominating the thread.

You should have banned Fury, too. He was emboldened by you just stinging Melo. He even tried to drag me into it last night and I have nothing to do with any of them. Today has been civil but there has also been nary a Fury post as well.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Again, I love Josh Hart, but these clips are pretty damning.

The NBA's evolving fast, and while you can get away with some weaknesses against the more traditional coaches, the more forward-thinking ones will punish you mercilessly for them.

I still believe Hart brings winning intangibles to the table, but we may reach the point where Hart can exclusively play bench minutes or as the screener against elite competition.

It's starting to feel like a Marcus Smart situation. I hope it doesn't prove to be true, but I'm open to that being a possibility.

Teams are betting on him missing threes or just not taking them, unfortunately he's shooting 23% on them and he's taking the second most on the team because our volume is pitiful

Yes, Josh is taking twice as many threes per game as KAT.

This hurts especially considering he is also passing up a lot of clean looks too.

29% of his threes are defined as wide open, he's shooting 11% on those threes

[3toheadmelo]

Is there anything else you desperately wanna get off your chest before this turns around in a few weeks? I swear it’s like you’re waiting for this **** and were upset you couldn’t say it vs Indiana. This team will go through ups and downs before they truly figure out and even so, they should’ve won this game with Brunson going 8-24.

It’s **** like this that makes it annoying when the team is winning cause yall act like you didn’t say anything.

It’s like some people don’t want to win, they just want to be right. Like I don’t care for the trolling but damn after a tough loss it’s annoying that the first thing in this thread is spamming “I told you so I told you so” lol.

Here's part of the prpblem. When a poster expresses concerns or unhappiness about the team now they get attacked by the homer instead of debating basketball. This causes the poster to double dpwn and retaliate with celebratory posts when the homer fans who attacked the poster were wrong even for a moment.



Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

There’s a very few people here that are willing to debate with me versus the majority who are just attacking and trolling. I just find it funny how the people who spammed the threads with Randle hate for years think they’re some great people but if someone criticized KAT or the team you’re a bad guy.

This is why sham doesn’t post anymore. He said you can’t say anything bad about the team anymore or you’ll get attacked and labeled as a “hater”. It sucks to see this place being run with extreme homers now and no one is stopping them. I’m gonna lurk for now cause this place is a massive mess.

[Capn'O]

I never understood thinking anyone here doesn't actually care about the knicks. We all want em to win. We just have different ideas how to get there. And some of us are a lil rough at expressing that. But just cause a fan doesn't fck with this current team doesn't make them not a fan.

We don't have the same situation that we did years ago when we had posters that were actually wolves in sheeps clothing masquerading as fans. What we've had recently is a couple posters beefing and trolling each other with one poster consistently at the center of it. Myself and other mods have recently gotten PMs from posters completely outside of this dynamic who are feeling less and less compelled to be part of the community because the forum is so overwhelmed with this commotion that any serious discussion of the team or games gets drowned out. And it's not one or two posters saying this. It's a lot. That's a problem and it's a cumulative one. Not one that springs from specific incidents but over time the board is degraded.

This place is supposed to be fun. It should be a place to let off steam and spar a bit. But it needs to be fun for a variety of users and our more gentle ways of expressing this recently hadn't taken.


Look at the discussion that's transpired this morning. It's far from homer talk but what it isn't is full of instigation and veiled attacks at other posters and the resultant retaliations dominating the thread.

You should have banned Fury, too. He was emboldened by you just stinging Melo. He even tried to drag me into it last night and I have nothing to do with any of them. Today has been civil but there has also been nary a Fury post as well.

Yet you don't you think they got the message? If it all doesn't cut back some their time will come.

With the poster in question, this was a cumulative thing and a piece where discussions had already taken place behind the scenes and on the forums.

[stuporman]

Brunson is me first.

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Yes, he takes the blame on himself first, he holds himself accountable first, he criticizes himself first. That's what you mean, right?

No he means that Brunsons main concern is scoring points and cares more about scoring then he does winning or being a good pg.

Either Thibs needs to sub Brunson early in the first so he can sub him back in with the bench unit so he can do his thing, or Brunson needs to adapt to the team around him and play more of a facilitating type of role.

The more Kat gets involved, the more space and easier shots Brunson has for himself.

Also dude is missing a lot of shots around the rim. He’s gotta finish those if you’re going to drive to the lane contested.

[Fury]

It’s like some people don’t want to win, they just want to be right. Like I don’t care for the trolling but damn after a tough loss it’s annoying that the first thing in this thread is spamming “I told you so I told you so” lol.

Here's part of the prpblem. When a poster expresses concerns or unhappiness about the team now they get attacked by the homer instead of debating basketball. This causes the poster to double dpwn and retaliate with celebratory posts when the homer fans who attacked the poster were wrong even for a moment.



Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

There’s a very few people here that are willing to debate with me versus the majority who are just attacking and trolling. I just find it funny how the people who spammed the threads with Randle hate for years think they’re some great people but if someone criticized KAT or the team you’re a bad guy.

This is why sham doesn’t post anymore. He said you can’t say anything bad about the team anymore or you’ll get attacked and labeled as a “hater”. It sucks to see this place being run with extreme homers now and no one is stopping them. I’m gonna lurk for now cause this place is a massive mess.

1. I never spammed Randle hate
2. That's a contradiction. How can people spam Randle hate and also be homers while he's on the team?
3. There's a difference between criticism and gloating when things go wrong. Posting tweets with **** like that is weird.
4. Sham is negative even when the team wins, at least he's not a frontrunner.

[Fury]

I never understood thinking anyone here doesn't actually care about the knicks. We all want em to win. We just have different ideas how to get there. And some of us are a lil rough at expressing that. But just cause a fan doesn't fck with this current team doesn't make them not a fan.

We don't have the same situation that we did years ago when we had posters that were actually wolves in sheeps clothing masquerading as fans. What we've had recently is a couple posters beefing and trolling each other with one poster consistently at the center of it. Myself and other mods have recently gotten PMs from posters completely outside of this dynamic who are feeling less and less compelled to be part of the community because the forum is so overwhelmed with this commotion that any serious discussion of the team or games gets drowned out. And it's not one or two posters saying this. It's a lot. That's a problem and it's a cumulative one. Not one that springs from specific incidents but over time the board is degraded.

This place is supposed to be fun. It should be a place to let off steam and spar a bit. But it needs to be fun for a variety of users and our more gentle ways of expressing this recently hadn't taken.


Look at the discussion that's transpired this morning. It's far from homer talk but what it isn't is full of instigation and veiled attacks at other posters and the resultant retaliations dominating the thread.

You should have banned Fury, too. He was emboldened by you just stinging Melo. He even tried to drag me into it last night and I have nothing to do with any of them. Today has been civil but there has also been nary a Fury post as well.

What did I say to you that dragged you in? Did you not mention my name first and try to get me banned? If you say something about me, I'm allowed to defend myself, but your plan was to bait me into getting banned.

[Guano]

Teams are betting on him missing threes or just not taking them, unfortunately he's shooting 23% on them and he's taking the second most on the team because our volume is pitiful

Yes, Josh is taking twice as many threes per game as KAT.

This hurts especially considering he is also passing up a lot of clean looks too.

29% of his threes are defined as wide open, he's shooting 11% on those threes

This is your nightmare actualized.

Well the brightside is it's only up from here. Though when mitch comes back the paint is going to get more clogged.

[prophet_of_rage]

We don't have the same situation that we did years ago when we had posters that were actually wolves in sheeps clothing masquerading as fans. What we've had recently is a couple posters beefing and trolling each other with one poster consistently at the center of it. Myself and other mods have recently gotten PMs from posters completely outside of this dynamic who are feeling less and less compelled to be part of the community because the forum is so overwhelmed with this commotion that any serious discussion of the team or games gets drowned out. And it's not one or two posters saying this. It's a lot. That's a problem and it's a cumulative one. Not one that springs from specific incidents but over time the board is degraded.

This place is supposed to be fun. It should be a place to let off steam and spar a bit. But it needs to be fun for a variety of users and our more gentle ways of expressing this recently hadn't taken.


Look at the discussion that's transpired this morning. It's far from homer talk but what it isn't is full of instigation and veiled attacks at other posters and the resultant retaliations dominating the thread.

You should have banned Fury, too. He was emboldened by you just stinging Melo. He even tried to drag me into it last night and I have nothing to do with any of them. Today has been civil but there has also been nary a Fury post as well.

Yet you don't you think they got the message? If it all doesn't cut back some their time will come.

With the poster in question, this was a cumulative thing and a piece where discussions had already taken place behind the scenes and on the forums.

I don't because Fury was coming after me after Melo got the one night ban. He said there will always be somebody to take up for him like that prophet guy. So no, he didn't get the message. He was emboldened. I just put him on ignore immediately but if you're going to police for this behaviour then police for it. It feels decidedly biased. And I have been saying this since mpharris and I used to go back and forth on Frank.

[Knicksfan1992]

I find it to be relatively rudimentary analysis to just say Hart as a non shooter is ruining all spacing and therefore he's the problem.

He's also not really a "non-shooter". True non-shooters don't even look to attempt 3's or only attempt them when there is no other option. Hart gets them up at a decent enough clip that you have to at least feign a close out or pay some attention to him. For his career he's roughly at 39% from the corners. His shooting has regressed lately but, It's not exactly a guy you want to leave open there for example. He's also a good cutter when he wants to be, great transition and secondary break guy, and obviously most of his offensive rebounds come from the runway teams give him when they sag off him. These are all things that help mitigate his lack of consistent shooting and bring positive value to the team.

Look, every team except maybe Boston has a guy that teams are willing to pay less attention to. I still contend Jrue is falling off and is not really a true factor offensively and Horford is a guy you have to be willing to let beat you if you want to beat them but anyway besides the point....

Playing good defense is sort of like being a good negotiator. You have to be willing to give to get right? So teams are going to give us an open Josh Hart in order to get bodies to Brunson on drives, have a man attached to KAT, etc.. It's up to Josh to make that decision as difficult as possible for a defense to make. He can do that in a variety of ways. Is doesn't have to necessarily mean he has to make every open 3 he takes. I think this is the biggest blind spot when it comes to general NBA analysis. Bad shooting doesn't necessarily mean bad spacing. It can be if you're a guy like Ben Simmons when at his worst he contributed nothing in the half court or a guy like current day Russ where his athleticism can't compensate it for it as much anymore. But in the case of like a Draymond or even Mitch for example where you provide another elite skill that compensates for it within the flow of the team you can get by and actually thrive in some ways with a non-shooter on the floor. It's not the big negative that it's made out to be IMO. It's just that's it's very visually obvious and so it's low hanging fruit to pick on.

[Fury]

You should have banned Fury, too. He was emboldened by you just stinging Melo. He even tried to drag me into it last night and I have nothing to do with any of them. Today has been civil but there has also been nary a Fury post as well.

Yet you don't you think they got the message? If it all doesn't cut back some their time will come.

With the poster in question, this was a cumulative thing and a piece where discussions had already taken place behind the scenes and on the forums.

I don't because Fury was coming after me after Melo got the one night ban. He said there will always be somebody to take up for him like that prophet guy. So no, he didn't get the message. He was emboldened. I just put him on ignore immediately but if you're going to police for this behaviour then police for it. It feels decidedly biased. And I have been saying this since mpharris and I used to go back and forth on Frank.

You literally said I should be banned before I said that. I didn't even attack you. Don't act like you didn't say my name first.

Proof:

Melo has the night off. No need to respond any further.

#FreeMelo


Political prisoner, whether right or wrong, I ride with my dude to the end.

Watch on YouTube

Fury was talking reckless too. Why just Melo banned.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[Capn'O]

Yet you don't you think they got the message? If it all doesn't cut back some their time will come.

With the poster in question, this was a cumulative thing and a piece where discussions had already taken place behind the scenes and on the forums.

I don't because Fury was coming after me after Melo got the one night ban. He said there will always be somebody to take up for him like that prophet guy. So no, he didn't get the message. He was emboldened. I just put him on ignore immediately but if you're going to police for this behaviour then police for it. It feels decidedly biased. And I have been saying this since mpharris and I used to go back and forth on Frank.

You literally said I should be banned before I said that. I didn't even attack you. Don't act like you didn't say my name first.

Proof:

#FreeMelo


Political prisoner, whether right or wrong, I ride with my dude to the end.

Watch on YouTube

Fury was talking reckless too. Why just Melo banned.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

This derailment needs to stop. We don't take requests. Feel free to hit me up with any questions.

[Guano]

Big helping off hart is an issue but I don’t think that’s why we lost. He took the most 3’s out of the starters and hit 40% of them. Looks like we were down 2 when he checked out of the game at the 4 minute mark and the Cavs lead ballooned after that. Still think it’s worth kicking out to him to either attack a close out or him to kick to someone above the break.

It's really easy to point out Brunsons horrible shooting night as the reason we lost. If he plays his normal game knicks win. But I think we have a few bigger issues. Kat has to be involved more in the offense. We have a jHart problem. And while the counting defensive stats look nice - they only scored 110 points they shot almost 50% from the field and went off in the 4th. Its a young season so it will be interesting to see how this plays out in the next 20 games.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It’s like some people don’t want to win, they just want to be right. Like I don’t care for the trolling but damn after a tough loss it’s annoying that the first thing in this thread is spamming “I told you so I told you so” lol.

Here's part of the prpblem. When a poster expresses concerns or unhappiness about the team now they get attacked by the homer instead of debating basketball. This causes the poster to double dpwn and retaliate with celebratory posts when the homer fans who attacked the poster were wrong even for a moment.



Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

There’s a very few people here that are willing to debate with me versus the majority who are just attacking and trolling. I just find it funny how the people who spammed the threads with Randle hate for years think they’re some great people but if someone criticized KAT or the team you’re a bad guy.

This is why sham doesn’t post anymore. He said you can’t say anything bad about the team anymore or you’ll get attacked and labeled as a “hater”. It sucks to see this place being run with extreme homers now and no one is stopping them. I’m gonna lurk for now cause this place is a massive mess.

This is like Jordan retiring for baseball, the game still needs you.



sham is just fronting, he'll come back when Mitch is back and will do his passive aggressive hating like normal, his act is transparent. Just like he left when we didn't get Donovan.

[DOT]

This hurts especially considering he is also passing up a lot of clean looks too.

29% of his threes are defined as wide open, he's shooting 11% on those threes

This is your nightmare actualized.

Well the brightside is it's only up from here. Though when mitch comes back the paint is going to get more clogged.

We're gonna bring Mikal off the bench as the 6th man and start Brunson/Hart/OG/KAT/Mitch, run the offense through KAT in the post.

[DaGawd]

Here's part of the prpblem. When a poster expresses concerns or unhappiness about the team now they get attacked by the homer instead of debating basketball. This causes the poster to double dpwn and retaliate with celebratory posts when the homer fans who attacked the poster were wrong even for a moment.



Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

There’s a very few people here that are willing to debate with me versus the majority who are just attacking and trolling. I just find it funny how the people who spammed the threads with Randle hate for years think they’re some great people but if someone criticized KAT or the team you’re a bad guy.

This is why sham doesn’t post anymore. He said you can’t say anything bad about the team anymore or you’ll get attacked and labeled as a “hater”. It sucks to see this place being run with extreme homers now and no one is stopping them. I’m gonna lurk for now cause this place is a massive mess.

This is like Jordan retiring for baseball, the game still needs you.



sham is just fronting, he'll come back when Mitch is back and will do his passive aggressive hating like normal, his act is transparent. Just like he left when we didn't get Donovan.

melo going on like wizards jordan

[NoDopeOnSundays]

29% of his threes are defined as wide open, he's shooting 11% on those threes

This is your nightmare actualized.

Well the brightside is it's only up from here. Though when mitch comes back the paint is going to get more clogged.

We're gonna bring Mikal off the bench as the 6th man and start Brunson/Hart/OG/KAT/Mitch, run the offense through KAT in the post.

[robillionaire]

Another one, in addition to the gifs, look where Hart is and look where Mobley is

Read on Twitter

The Celtics had Horford on Hart, the Cavs put Mobley on him, you can hide your big on him if they're mobile. The Celtics will absolutely put Kristaps on him if he's reluctant to shoot and not respected

We're basically getting the worst of both worlds

We have the size of a modern team but the playstyle of a mid-00s offense

I guarantee if Hart is pulled from the starting lineup, it'll be for Precious or Hukporti and we'll go back to the 2-big system Thibs loves.

Except it’s not quite the same as prior systems because Towns can shoot 3s and Precious seems like he’s more willing to them fly or at least attempt to score on offense. There’s no complete 0 on offense in that lineup. Precious isn’t a good shooter but Hart can barely shoot and passes up open looks himself so would we be losing that much by swapping him with Precious? It also adds some rebounding and could help keep towns out of foul trouble. They may have to give this a shot at some point. Hart can still be a spark off the bench and close games if he’s hot

[KnicksGadfly]

New team, new talent, people feeling each other out. Gotta give Thibs time to coach, but I do agree that the onus is on him to make this work.