PG: Knicks lose to Thunder

[Reign23]

Even with the loss, I had way more fun than in the wins against those **** teams.
Just a great game between two contenders.

[whocares1]

Well...tried to avoid it. Friend texted me the results and a quick summary. 117-107 Tough loss. Another 4th qtr collapse. Reading this thread I'm still gonna watch the game when I get home after the weekend. I need to see it for myself. Coach Thibs is the difference between our record and CLE record.

I fixed it for you.

I was certainly not pleased earlier in the season when we were losing games we could and maybe should have won. The starters score damn near 100 pts every game. We should be leading the league in PPG. Somehow we have the worst bench in the league scoring wise playing the least minutes in 20 years. While our starters are playing gassed to win these games against bums. Something isn't working right.

I mean wouldn’t you say that Deuce McBride and Mitchell Robinson are our best bench players and neither of them played. How many teams benches look good without their two best players?

[spree2kawhi]

Got beat by a better team on the road. They hit big shots down the stretch. We missed them.

We lost this one. Towns need to be featured more. He needs to get 20 FTs in a game like this.

He doesn’t get that respect. That isn’t happening on the road. Towns going iso on Williams is literally what OKC wanted. They were abandoning Hart to focus on Towns so he wasn’t going to get an easy look all 4th quarter.

They were leaving Hart open all game. You’ve still got to play through Towns. Can’t fault Brunson for taking over, but I can’t recall a single Brunson-Towns pick and roll from this game. That way he gets no FTAs and I also don’t think he shot a three.

[spree2kawhi]

Even with the loss, I had way more fun than in the wins against those **** teams.
Just a great game between two contenders.

We shot really well and Bridges and Anunoby guarded Shai exceptionally well. Defensively, what hurt us wasn’t perimeter defense but miscommunication on cuts. If anything, Payne was terrible defensively. Offensively, Towns did play well, but he should’ve scored twice as much. The refs didn’t help either.

Now we need to win all three until we face them again, hopefully show them the door on Friday.

[whocares1]

We lost this one. Towns need to be featured more. He needs to get 20 FTs in a game like this.

He doesn’t get that respect. That isn’t happening on the road. Towns going iso on Williams is literally what OKC wanted. They were abandoning Hart to focus on Towns so he wasn’t going to get an easy look all 4th quarter.

They were leaving Hart open all game. You’ve still got to play through Towns. Can’t fault Brunson for taking over, but I can’t recall a single Brunson-Towns pick and roll from this game. That way he gets no FTAs and I also don’t think he shot a three.

I mean this with respect but you honestly believe that Towns getting just two shots in the 4th is by design? You think Thibs or Brunson just said “**** it I want to be the hero”? You think Towns was being left open and was being iced by our ball hog point guard? The truth is that most games when the intensity picks up late in games, becomes hard to run normal set plays.

Their defense was geared to stopping Towns and living with Dort on Brunson in isolation. Towns is not Giannis. He is a bad decision maker on dribble drives. He’s prone to turning the ball over, which is why he was better as an off ball star next to Edwards. Late in games, guards usually take over and that’s what happened.

[GettinitDone]

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[KnixinSix]

Yes the win pissed me off in the moment but to see Knicks definitively outplay Thunder for 3 quarters was EXTREMELY encouraging.

Thunder have tremendous depth and in the 4th you saw it. A fresh Wiggins of all people scored 15 bench points.

I am realizing they need Mitch just as much the lengthen the bench as anything else.

And a trade for a vet piece that could get significant minutes might be in play too.

Thibs HAS to find a way to lengthen the bench and not having McBride he would have potentially given us 20-25 veteran minutes loomed large.

[KnixinSix]

I fixed it for you.

I was certainly not pleased earlier in the season when we were losing games we could and maybe should have won. The starters score damn near 100 pts every game. We should be leading the league in PPG. Somehow we have the worst bench in the league scoring wise playing the least minutes in 20 years. While our starters are playing gassed to win these games against bums. Something isn't working right.

I mean wouldn’t you say that Deuce McBride and Mitchell Robinson are our best bench players and neither of them played. How many teams benches look good without their two best players?

Its kinda obvious if you breakdown the game properly that this was the type of game where missing some depth killed us.

[spree2kawhi]

He doesn’t get that respect. That isn’t happening on the road. Towns going iso on Williams is literally what OKC wanted. They were abandoning Hart to focus on Towns so he wasn’t going to get an easy look all 4th quarter.

They were leaving Hart open all game. You’ve still got to play through Towns. Can’t fault Brunson for taking over, but I can’t recall a single Brunson-Towns pick and roll from this game. That way he gets no FTAs and I also don’t think he shot a three.

I mean this with respect but you honestly believe that Towns getting just two shots in the 4th is by design? You think Thibs or Brunson just said “**** it I want to be the hero”? You think Towns was being left open and was being iced by our ball hog point guard? The truth is that most games when the intensity picks up late in games, becomes hard to run normal set plays.

Their defense was geared to stopping Towns and living with Dort on Brunson in isolation. Towns is not Giannis. He is a bad decision maker on dribble drives. He’s prone to turning the ball over, which is why he was better as an off ball star next to Edwards. Late in games, guards usually take over and that’s what happened.

It is called pick and roll. We mostly used Hart as the screener in the fourth, mostly to create matchups. You should/could use towns there more often.

[The KnicksFix]

This game reminds me of when the Giants lost to the Patriots in the season finale, then came back and beat them in the Super Bowl when it mattered.
We have everything needed to win when Mitch and Deuce come back.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm not one for moral victories but the squad went toe to toe with these guys until the fellas ran out of gas. What I saw was very encouraging and there's still so much room for growth.

Tom has gotta manage this rotation better. When we got to the 4th, our main guys were all plus 30+ mins while OKC's guys had their minutes in the 20s. OG sustained a horrible fall and didn't even get a chance to breathe before he was back out there. I understand the frustration from everyone on here last night at the players, but these guys were run into the floorboards.

Cam, Shamet, Precious, and even one of the younger guys can at least get some more minutes to give guys a moment for rest. Not having Deuce really hurt. But playing 6 guys is not the answer.

[thebuzzardman]

Even with the loss, I had way more fun than in the wins against those **** teams.
Just a great game between two contenders.

I enjoyed everyone realizing the Knicks are pretenders and not contenders.

[thebuzzardman]

Look at their bench players draft spots...mostly second rounders and a UFA.

They just know how to pick 'em.

Correct. The Knicks bench is ass.

I know you don't want to give them any excuses but to be fair, after 3 big trades in less than a year for the quality of players they acquired will deplete a bench and not leave much time to replenish it.

Not sure how the Knicks will fill it out from here on but coming into this season after all the moves made we all kinda knew the bench was going to be an issue, so being salty fans about it won't change that.

This isn't a one year window the Knicks have and after only 35 games of a newly formed starting unit this team battled the best in the league on their own floor with a historically elite defense down to the wire.

It stings to be up 8 going into the 4th and not finish the job but it is what it is, context matters though, too.

More people should realize this won't be the Knicks year, for all the reasons you stated. However, during this win streak unless less than stellar competition, there was a lot of people sniffing their own farts about the team.

They'll need another year or two to shore up the bench. This is where Leon and Rosas really prove themselves. Or not.

[thebuzzardman]

Everyone saying the bench sucks but where is the proof? Have we seen them play enough minutes to even judge them?

Have we seen them play alongside different starters? You know, staggering bench and starter minutes to find lineups that work? Why is it that “scrub of the night” exists for every team in the league except the Knicks?

Regardless, we had a 12-14 point lead and we lost it with the starters playing. Would we have lost it with the bench being involved? Maybe. But would the starters have been more rested to compete harder in the 4th? Also a possibility. We’ll never know.

We know we don’t have a great whistle. We know towns and Brunson are getting hammered all game long with no calls. Is that sustainable for 40 mins a night all season long? Thibs has no brain in his head. He hasn’t been any kind of basketball genius in over a decade. Times have changed

brilliantly done sir
im not gonna lie- i need to have the same confidence in Thibs that I have in our core guys and honestly - I dont have it.

Either the bench sucks or Thibs sucks. Either way, Knicks are a 2nd tier playoff team, right there with the Hawks and Magic.

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks won 9 straight, 19-5 in their past 24 games and people are dumb enough to call for the coach to be replaced. Ridiculous. For those complaining about thibs bench minutes, thibs started the 4th with precious, payne, and shamet, and what happened? The game was completely turned around, if thibs played the bench more they probably lose by over 20, which brings me to my point, it’s not that thibs doesn’t want to use his bench, it’s the bench especially without deuce isn’t good enough.

Here's a novel idea, stagger the lineups so that it isn't just 4 bench guys and 1 starter. Why were Payne and Shamet out there together? The minutes cannot just be pushed to the side, they were an issue when we were winning because everyone can see he's riding the starters to get wins. The same problem we've had in the 4th has come up again, which is three falling flat and our defense vanishing because guys are tired. We had a 154 DRTG in the 4th quarter, to put in perspective how bad that is, the Wiz defense has a 120 DRTG on the season. We have a 119 (before tonight) DRTG in the 4th quarter on the season. That has been a problem all season long, and it's due to the minutes he asks of these guys.


Whether the bench is good with or without Deuce, you have to play the bench because it keeps the starters fresh. Maybe we go down 8 and fight back, but the theme on the season has been horrible 4th quarter defense. I cannot understand how we went through last season, saw the team fall apart, then this season he's playing guys even more than last season and you guys still defend it.

When Payne and Shamet were out there together, there were THREE starters on the floor. That's staggering.

The issue is that Payne and Shamet aren't that good, and Shamet is the Knicks 2nd best bench player. Deuce being the first, who wasn't playing. And Deuce probably overrated on here too.

[thebuzzardman]

Guess we need more Sims and Hukporti

Giving Pacome/Kolek meaningful minutes with the starters to develop them and help ease the minutes load on the starters is too much to ask? We have the least played bench in 20 years, there have been worse benches on better teams that have played more than this one.

The Thunder give Ajay Mitchell 16mpg, and have been doing that since the start of the season so that when the time comes to play another top team they're comfortable seeing if he has it on that night. He had it tonight. If the second best team in the NBA can find minutes for a 2nd round pick, we should try expanding the rotation to more than just 7 guys.

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Everyone's favorite ex Knick knows the Knick bench is ass.

[thebuzzardman]

The Knicks are 27th in the league defensively in the 4th quarter, we are net -6.1 which is 24th in the league. Someone tried to say it was because of blowouts earlier, well the Thunder, Cavs and Celtics are +8.9, 8.7 and 6.0 in the 4th.

Our offense also goes from 2nd in the league to 14th in the 4th but keep defending not playing bench guys at all. Diminishing returns hits our starters hard in the 4th because they are tired, more so against good teams that don't play their 5 guys 40 minutes in January.

That’s because Brunson goes in to ballhog Mode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’m sick of that ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Knicks should trade Brunson for bench depth

[thebuzzardman]

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That’s the ball game right there folkssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can’t win when the “PG” chucks away the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Towns and bridges were carrying us all night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And barely touched the ball in the 4th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely disgusting to watch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anytime Brunson scores more than 35 points, you are officially not allowed to post anything good about it.

[thebuzzardman]

Get Deuce and Mitch back, sign TJ Warren, trade precious and picks for Jonas, play deuce, Mitch, Warren, Payne, jonas

Have you watched TJ Warren play in Westchester? He looks like he's moving through molasses. In the winter.

[thebuzzardman]

out bench should be

Mitch
Warren
Hart
McBride
Kolek

Move Hart back to starting lineup
Sub Payne for Kolek
Maybe trade precious for Jonas, or keep precious

Mitch
Precious
Warren
Deuce
Payne

You realize after all that that those benches still aren't that good, right?