PG: Knicks lose again to Cavs

[K_ick_God]

I think it’s lame that some fans are trying to believe in the team and then people like Stan are trying to attack Knicks fans. Just for the record, trying to say you should believe in a team that doesn’t believe in itself is crap.

Does the team play like it believes in itself? No, it doesn’t.

The only thing I will say is that the rules and the coach make it hard to believe in yourself. The rules are designed to take aggressive defense out of the game and this coach is the opposite of a vibrant and reaffirming presence who is engaged in the game in a positive way.

Knicks fans have been here all the time and we didn’t make the moves or hire the coach or write the rules. We also don’t permit refs and others to screw the Knicks over and over.

[Adelheid]

I think it’s lame that some fans are trying to believe in the team and then people like Stan are trying to attack Knicks fans. Just for the record, trying to say you should believe in a team that doesn’t believe in itself is crap.

Does the team play like it believes in itself? No, it doesn’t.

The only thing I will say is that the rules and the coach make it hard to believe in yourself. The rules are designed to take aggressive defense out of the game and this coach is the opposite of a vibrant and reaffirming presence who is engaged in the game in a positive way.

Knicks fans have been here all the time and we didn’t make the moves or hire the coach or write the rules. We also don’t permit refs and others to screw the Knicks over and over.

yeah, i too get that vibes that even they dont believe in themselves

[K_ick_God]

And btw Stan Van Gundy, you and your brother think Tom Thibodeau walks on water. The same guy who wears a scowl all game, scolds younger players WAY more than he scolds crappy vets, who doesn’t let his team rest or breathe.

Have not seen Tom lift up anybody who is a young player, the VERY players who need to be lifted up, or anybody in general. Tom seems to like Mitch who is bad and said nice things about Quickley who also sucks.

All negative and frontrunner and loser traits and qualities but Tom is just so great and wonderful, and it is our fault the team stinks for a quarter century.

Stan a fart sniffer like Tom.

[Capn'O]

Read on Twitter

jesus

Trade looks bad but it’s not even close to the worst trade this year or even close to the worst trade the Knicks have made

Yeah, it is not that epic. It was an overpay perhaps, but put a competent coach in charge and his value will increase to either us or a trading partner.

He'll still have good value this summer. He's a known quantity.

Definitely an overpay, which i thought at the time. Unfortunately, he's also kinda fitting like Richard Jefferson on the spurs so far. I thought the fit would be easier. I agree a coaching change could help with that part.

[K_ick_God]

My advice to Josh Hart is live out loud dude. Stop passing the ball like you don’t want to shoot. Shoot the ball.

Got nothing to lose. And all of the team should defend like the refs and the soft rules don’t exist. Who cares if you get a flagrant. Let them call a flagrant on every play.

The Knicks get the extreme short end of the stick every game from the refs and they’re playing so soft and pathetically. Play basketball and go out with some dignity. Basketball is a contact sport.

[K_ick_God]

Btw also it’s incredibly stupid to bench Precious for the playoffs but here we are.

Precious is a much better player than Mitch and gives you a much better shot against Detroit.

If the Knicks play soft and afraid and stop sharing the ball or try to let Brunson shoot off no motion, then they deserve to lose. I hope they lose both and are booed off the court if they show up with no confidence and no joy or energy. They’re embarrassing themselves — that’s not the fans’ fault at all — and Detroit may humiliate them.

Stan a phony elitist. Blaming the most loyal fans in sports.

[LFGK]

Btw also it’s incredibly stupid to bench Precious for the playoffs but here we are.

Precious is a much better player than Mitch and gives you a much better shot against Detroit.

If the Knicks play soft and afraid and stop sharing the ball or try to let Brunson shoot off no motion, then they deserve to lose. I hope they lose both and are booed off the court if they show up with no confidence and no joy or energy. They’re embarrassing themselves — that’s not the fans’ fault at all — and Detroit may humiliate them.

Stan a phony elitist. Blaming the most loyal fans in sports.

No

[prophet_of_rage]

Knicks need a coach that EMPOWERS them like the best coaches in the NBA do (including Bostons coach)

Thibs empowers. He isn't running plays. The Knicks players are steering the offence.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[prophet_of_rage]

My advice to Josh Hart is live out loud dude. Stop passing the ball like you don’t want to shoot. Shoot the ball.

Got nothing to lose. And all of the team should defend like the refs and the soft rules don’t exist. Who cares if you get a flagrant. Let them call a flagrant on every play.

The Knicks get the extreme short end of the stick every game from the refs and they’re playing so soft and pathetically. Play basketball and go out with some dignity. Basketball is a contact sport.

Josh knows he is limited and is at peace with it. He isn't trying to be a star, sadly.

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[NYKat]

As much as I think Thibs is the problem, I’d be willing to give him another year to try to figure it out if he commits to being flexible, open minded and less rigid in his coaching…

I don’t think I would give up on this roster either, I think continuity and chemistry is undervalued in this league. This core, in its current incarnation, has only been together for a year.

If you're not ready to give up on this roster then you should want to replace the coach.

Not wanting to give up on either means you don't know what you are actually supporting.

I do agree with not giving up on the roster even if they might need to tweak it further in the off-season.

You have to change coaches if you want to unlock this roster. It will NEVER happen under Thibs.

How could you possibly need another year to evaluate Thibs? You already know EVERYTHING there is to know about him. Another year is not going to uncover some surprising coaching twist.

So Thibs has had bad coaching years before and bounced back from it (Remember the Kemba/ Fournier year when he was deservedly a couple of games away from getting fired) he bounced back from that year and it proved it to be a good decision to keep him. I think he’s earned an opportunity to re evaluate in the offseason and make adjustments. IF he is open minded to being flexible in his thinking. (YES, Thibs has been largely stubborn but he HAS shown some ability to adjust and grow as a coach through out his career)

This core has essentially only been together one year and if you look at the history of NBA champions, they typically need at least two years of playoff failures, growth, and continuity as a team before they breakthrough. Too often fans want to fire and trade everyone at the first sign of adversity. (Imagine if Denver or Boston would have blown it up a year before they broke through. Milwaukee fired Budenholzer after one bad year and that looks to be a bad decision as well)

So while I agree Thibs is the problem, if I were the front office, I would sit Thibs down in the off-season and tell him he’d have another year to show progress IF he were open to making adjustments, I think he’s earned that much given what he’s done for the franchise.

[NYKat]

y'all overrate the talent on this team

There are people here comparing Thibs to mark Jackson. Apparently this roster has the best shooter of all time, a HOFer defender and the best shooting guard since Ray Allen that Thibs is holding back. Not serious people

So I think you're distorting my comparison to make a point, I just meant that LIKE Mark Jackson, Thibs can only take you so far. I used JB Bickerstaff too to highlight the distinction.

[NYKat]

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No lies told

[prophet_of_rage]

y'all overrate the talent on this team

There are people here comparing Thibs to mark Jackson. Apparently this roster has the best shooter of all time, a HOFer defender and the best shooting guard since Ray Allen that Thibs is holding back. Not serious people

So I think you're distorting my comparison to make a point, I just meant that LIKE Mark Jackson, Thibs can only take you so far. I used JB Bickerstaff too to highlight the distinction.

They're saying the talent on NY can only get you so far.

Do we have scorers as talented and versatile as Tatum, SGA and Spida?

Do we have a shotblocking floor stretching big like Porzingis, Chet or Mobley?

Do we have dynamic two guards like Jaylin, Jaylen and Spida?

Defensive guards like Holiday, White or Garland?

Our talent can only take us so far. Enjoy the ride. Who knows how the playoffs break but for the regular season us not beating Boston, Cleveland and OKC is logical.

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[prophet_of_rage]

Read on Twitter

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No lies told

None at all.

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[NYKat]

Precious is a much better player than Mitchand gives you a much better shot against Detroit.

If the Knicks play soft and afraid and stop sharing the ball or try to let Brunson shoot off no motion, then they deserve to lose. I hope they lose both and are booed off the court if they show up with no confidence and no joy or energy. They’re embarrassing themselves — that’s not the fans’ fault at all — and Detroit may humiliate them.

Stan a phony elitist. Blaming the most loyal fans in sports.

I stopped reading here

[NYKat]

There are people here comparing Thibs to mark Jackson. Apparently this roster has the best shooter of all time, a HOFer defender and the best shooting guard since Ray Allen that Thibs is holding back. Not serious people

So I think you're distorting my comparison to make a point, I just meant that LIKE Mark Jackson, Thibs can only take you so far. I used JB Bickerstaff too to highlight the distinction.

They're saying the talent on NY can only get you so far.

Do we have scorers as talented and versatile as Tatum, SGA and Spida?

Do we have a shotblocking floor stretching big like Porzingis, Chet or Mobley?

Do we have dynamic two guards like Jaylin, Jaylen and Spida?

Defensive guards like Holiday, White or Garland?

Our talent can only take us so far. Enjoy the ride. Who knows how the playoffs break but for the regular season us not beating Boston, Cleveland and OKC is logical.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

I submit we have the most clutch player in the league in Brunson, and the floor spacing/rim protection isn’t in one player is covered by both Mitch/Kat, we have above average wing defenders in Hart, Deuce and Bridges and OG should make an all defensive team, So we’re right there…

People weren’t complaining about the talent in the beginning of the year, so it’s just about giving Thibs the time to discover the best combinations.

[spree2kawhi]

So I think you're distorting my comparison to make a point, I just meant that LIKE Mark Jackson, Thibs can only take you so far. I used JB Bickerstaff too to highlight the distinction.

They're saying the talent on NY can only get you so far.

Do we have scorers as talented and versatile as Tatum, SGA and Spida?

Do we have a shotblocking floor stretching big like Porzingis, Chet or Mobley?

Do we have dynamic two guards like Jaylin, Jaylen and Spida?

Defensive guards like Holiday, White or Garland?

Our talent can only take us so far. Enjoy the ride. Who knows how the playoffs break but for the regular season us not beating Boston, Cleveland and OKC is logical.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

I submit we have the most clutch player in the league in Brunson, and the floor spacing/rim protection isn’t in one player is covered by both Mitch/Kat, we have above average wing defenders in Hart, Deuce and Bridges and OG should make an all defensive team, So we’re right there…

People weren’t complaining about the talent in the beginning of the year, so it’s just about giving Thibs the time to discover the best combinations.

This is how I see it. This team has everything you need.

[Clyde_Style]

As much as I think Thibs is the problem, I’d be willing to give him another year to try to figure it out if he commits to being flexible, open minded and less rigid in his coaching…

I don’t think I would give up on this roster either, I think continuity and chemistry is undervalued in this league. This core, in its current incarnation, has only been together for a year.

If you're not ready to give up on this roster then you should want to replace the coach.

Not wanting to give up on either means you don't know what you are actually supporting.

I do agree with not giving up on the roster even if they might need to tweak it further in the off-season.

You have to change coaches if you want to unlock this roster. It will NEVER happen under Thibs.

How could you possibly need another year to evaluate Thibs? You already know EVERYTHING there is to know about him. Another year is not going to uncover some surprising coaching twist.

So Thibs has had bad coaching years before and bounced back from it (Remember the Kemba/ Fournier year when he was deservedly a couple of games away from getting fired) he bounced back from that year and it proved it to be a good decision to keep him. I think he’s earned an opportunity to re evaluate in the offseason and make adjustments. IF he is open minded to being flexible in his thinking. (YES, Thibs has been largely stubborn but he HAS shown some ability to adjust and grow as a coach through out his career)

This core has essentially only been together one year and if you look at the history of NBA champions, they typically need at least two years of playoff failures, growth, and continuity as a team before they breakthrough. Too often fans want to fire and trade everyone at the first sign of adversity. (Imagine if Denver or Boston would have blown it up a year before they broke through. Milwaukee fired Budenholzer after one bad year and that looks to be a bad decision as well)

So while I agree Thibs is the problem, if I were the front office, I would sit Thibs down in the off-season and tell him he’d have another year to show progress IF he were open to making adjustments, I think he’s earned that much given what he’s done for the franchise.

Not being contentious when I point it out again, but your answer undermines your conclusion.

Again, I agree the roster is mostly worthy of staying committed to.

However, I cannot for the life of me see how anyone can believe Thibs is going to evolve at this point. What you see is what you get. The man is a coaching fossil.

Giving him time will not result in anything than more time for the players with each other, but that is not a rationale that will result in them gelling into a contender if the coaching remains awful. And Thibs is pretty awful. So time to move on.

The idea the FO is going to tell Thibs how to coach is unrealistic. He'll do what he does and he will not take instruction from the FO. It is a fantasy to think Thibs will adjust his ways because the FO has different ideas about how to coach the roster. If the FO wants it to change they will have to replace him.

And Thibs needing more time to figure out rotations (combinations)? Come on man, get real.

How many years does it take to adjust to zones or a drop-defense that has mostly been a bust or to realize having too many poor shooters on the floor at the same time makes us sitting ducks?

You're talking about Thibs like he's some fresh-faced graduate of the assistant ranks ready to make his mark in the NBA. The guy rarely adjusts and our squad is almost never prepared with a game plan and the man does not diagram plays at crunch time. You're living in a dream world if you think giving Thibs more years will result in him finally getting it.

[NYKat]

If you're not ready to give up on this roster then you should want to replace the coach.

Not wanting to give up on either means you don't know what you are actually supporting.

I do agree with not giving up on the roster even if they might need to tweak it further in the off-season.

You have to change coaches if you want to unlock this roster. It will NEVER happen under Thibs.

How could you possibly need another year to evaluate Thibs? You already know EVERYTHING there is to know about him. Another year is not going to uncover some surprising coaching twist.

So Thibs has had bad coaching years before and bounced back from it (Remember the Kemba/ Fournier year when he was deservedly a couple of games away from getting fired) he bounced back from that year and it proved it to be a good decision to keep him. I think he’s earned an opportunity to re evaluate in the offseason and make adjustments. IF he is open minded to being flexible in his thinking. (YES, Thibs has been largely stubborn but he HAS shown some ability to adjust and grow as a coach through out his career)

This core has essentially only been together one year and if you look at the history of NBA champions, they typically need at least two years of playoff failures, growth, and continuity as a team before they breakthrough. Too often fans want to fire and trade everyone at the first sign of adversity. (Imagine if Denver or Boston would have blown it up a year before they broke through. Milwaukee fired Budenholzer after one bad year and that looks to be a bad decision as well)

So while I agree Thibs is the problem, if I were the front office, I would sit Thibs down in the off-season and tell him he’d have another year to show progress IF he were open to making adjustments, I think he’s earned that much given what he’s done for the franchise.

Not being contentious when I point it out again, but your answer undermines your conclusion.

Again, I agree the roster is mostly worthy of staying committed to.

However, I cannot for the life of me see how anyone can believe Thibs is going to evolve at this point. What you see is what you get. The man is a coaching fossil.

Giving him time will not result in anything than more time for the players with each other, but that is not a rationale that will result in them gelling into a contender if the coaching remains awful. And Thibs is pretty awful. So time to move on.

The idea the FO is going to tell Thibs how to coach is unrealistic. He'll do what he does and he will not take instruction from the FO. It is a fantasy to think Thibs will adjust his ways because the FO has different ideas about how to coach the roster. If the FO wants it to change they will have to replace him.

And Thibs needing more time to figure out rotations (combinations)? Come on man, get real.

How many years does it take to adjust to zones or a drop-defense that has mostly been a bust or to realize having too many poor shooters on the floor at the same time makes us sitting ducks?

You're talking about Thibs like he's some fresh-faced graduate of the assistant ranks ready to make his mark in the NBA. The guy rarely adjusts and our squad is almost never prepared with a game plan and the man does not diagram plays at crunch time. You're living in a dream world if you think giving Thibs more years will result in him finally getting it.

You should be a head coach then since you got it alll figured out

[Reign23]

stan van still hates the knicks after all these decades

we is still right, tho..